[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]I admit to wanting a change and a fresh start, one thing that frustrates me about Parkinson (and other managers) is the idea that they are hamstrung by the playing staff they have, and they need to get others in to change the situation ('we need more firepower up front', 'we need loans in')....yeah, every manager could bemoan not having Messi or Drogba and say if they did results would improve. My attitude is don't sit around moaning about what isn't there, but make the most of the resources you have, deploy players effectively, make a little go a long way, try stuff, experiment if you have to (Holland at centre half...experiment or necessity?), but do something about problems, don't shrug and say the situation is impossible....not my fault guv....this is the message I get from Parkinson.....if only I had more....
He was only telling the press and the fans what he needs to do in the summer. If he's still here he's clearly already started looking at players and working on bringing them in.
It's better than him saying if we can keep this squad together, don't need to bring many players in, we can go straight back up. He's seen we need to strengthen, it's clear we need better strikers and more defenders.
What he came out and said was true. Whether he's in charge or someone else, they have to keep the better players, let plenty go and re-build the squad. We need more firepower up front. If Parkinson or the new manager gets it wrong, we won't go up, as he said, it's very important that the club get everything right in the next 2 months.
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]I admit to wanting a change and a fresh start, one thing that frustrates me about Parkinson (and other managers) is the idea that they are hamstrung by the playing staff they have, and they need to get others in to change the situation ('we need more firepower up front', 'we need loans in')....yeah, every manager could bemoan not having Messi or Drogba and say if they did results would improve. My attitude is don't sit around moaning about what isn't there, but make the most of the resources you have, deploy players effectively, make a little go a long way, try stuff, experiment if you have to (Holland at centre half...experiment or necessity?), but do something about problems, don't shrug and say the situation is impossible....not my fault guv....this is the message I get from Parkinson.....if only I had more....
He was only telling the press and the fans what he needs to do in the summer.
It's better than him saying if we can keep this squad together, don't need to bring many players in, we can go straight back up. He's seen we need to strengthen, it's clear we need better strikers and more defenders.
What he came out and said was true. Whether he's in charge or someone else, they have to keep the better players, let plenty go and re-build the squad. We need more firepower up front. If Parkinson or the new manager gets it wrong, we won't go up, as he said, it's very important that the club get everything right in the
next 2 months.
All the more reason to hire him or fire him. The next eight weeks are going to be important in deciding who goes and who is identified as targets to sign. Either let PP get on with it or appoint a new man in good time so that he can. We have all known for ages about PP so what new information can the board be looking at in deciding if they are going to appoint him. This close season is enormous for Charlton. Imho we need to make decisions to give the chosen man time and confidence to do his job.
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]All the more reason to hire him or fire him. The next eight weeks are going to be important in deciding who goes and who is identified as targets to sign. Either let PP get on with it or appoint a new man in good time so that he can. We have all known for ages about PP so what new information can the board be looking at in deciding if they are going to appoint him. This close season is enormous for Charlton. Imho we need to make decisions to give the chosen man time and confidence to do his job.
I agree, the sooner it's sorted out the better. They must be dealing with it now and I hope it won't take much longer.
Only thing that could delay it is a potential takeover, probably the difference between a new manager and Parkinson.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite] My attitude is don't sit around moaning about what isn't there, but make the most of the resources you have, deploy players effectively, make a little go a long way, try stuff, experiment if you have to (Holland at centre half...experiment or necessity?), but do something about problems, don't shrug and say the situation is impossible....not my fault guv....this is the message I get from Parkinson.....if only I had more....[/quote]
I thought this was exactly [b]what Parky has done[/b], Seth .... ?[/quote]
If Parkinson has tried to effect change since November, with resources available to him, then he has failed miserably, unlike Brendan Rogers, Nigel Clough and Billy Davis...there was a period this season when I thought I was seeing the same game over and over again, this was revived recently in the two 2-2 draws. All I detect is parkinson getting lucky with a few players being available to him that were injured, and a relaxed attitude after relegation...very little to pinpoint what he has successfully made happen. I am also mindful that this is the man who said how much he would like to sign Kandol, before promptly dropping him from the team.
I'd like to see Parky stay on. I think we have improved in the last few weeks and I don't know who could do any better considering out current financial problems. Maybe if the takeover happens then they may be able to attract a better manager but I think Parky will do the business next year. Providing that is we can get in some defenders that can actually defend instead of the some of the currect crop. Mentioning no names (MARK HUDSON!!!)
With players like Hudson and in fact Fortune it's more of a case of getting the best out of them consistently. At League One level, if either of them stay, they should be among the best defenders in the league. Just a matter of them keeping concentration for 90 minutes and playing to their ability every match.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]With players like Hudson and in fact Fortune it's more of a case of getting the best out of them consistently. At League One level, if either of them stay, they should be among the best defenders in the league. Just a matter of them keeping concentration for 90 minutes and playing to their ability every match.
why should hudson be one f the best in this league that is like saying burton could be a 30 goal a season man in this league
great debate. I don't hate Parky, I've never met the man and I bet he's a nice, decent bloke. However, that doesn't mean that he should remain Manager though. And I for one hope he doesn't, no fence sitting from me. I don't think there has been much of an improvement that is due to anything Parky has done. Any improvement that has happened is due to the return of Racon and the emergence of Shelvey, neither of which are due to Parky. People give him credit for bringing Racon back but it was a no-brainer. Once fit anyone would have brought he back in (Pards excepted !). Shelvey is an exceptional talent who likewise should be in the team. It has also been stated that the players are behind him. At a Sponsors Evening you are unlikely to get them saying anything else. You go to a Corporate do at work and someone asks ' how do you get on with Peter, your boss?'. Do you say 'he's a right git, I can't stand him, he can't manage, has no grasp of financial issues and smells' or do you say 'yes, quite well, he runs a relaxed department, keeps the woek varied and interesting, and it's a great environment'. Errm. I don't hate Parky and I wish him well but it's time to go.
[cite]Posted By: Dazzler21[/cite]SOMEof the people firmly against Parky staying haven't been to enough games to decide surely? No offence but your names are American, Prague and Denmark.
No offence taken, not least because I declared upfront that I haven't seen them since January. I'd also point out that I'm not as firm as AA, and he told me to "see the light"
On the other hand, there is an upside to having seen less of them. Last season (07-08) one of the games I saw was the defeat of Palace. I came away telling myself we would kick on from there and at least reach the playoffs. That's the trouble. The occasional enjoyable performance (and it doesnt get more enjoyable than that) fills you with hope. But hope isn't rational. Back here I rely on the results, and a view culled from the 100 or so people here that did go. The results say that he has made no measurable impact, despite your qualitative view that performances have improved. Of his signings, only Darren Ward seems to get majority approval. One or two other people have said that we have played more of a passing game recently. Trouble is that only seems to have appeared after our fate was sealed. On the right day,given the right mood, any professional team can play a good passing game. Barnsley against Chelsea, Walsall against us in the Cup. They didn't translate that into their regular league performances. On the other hand Doncaster and Swansea have set out to play that way throughout the season, and stuck with it even when things were going wrong. In Doncaster's case that's particularly impressive. Since Doncaster don't have our parachute money, our support, or any particularly rich benefactor, you've got to say its down to the manager.
It just isn't enough to say performances have improved. They never improved enough to even question the evidence that overall we have been the worst team in the league. With all that parachute money, one of the largest squads, and longer on the task than, e.g Billy Davies at Forest.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]At a Sponsors Evening you are unlikely to get them saying anything else. You go to a Corporate do at work and someone asks ' how do you get on with Peter, your boss?'. Do you say 'he's a right git, I can't stand him, he can't manage, has no grasp of financial issues and smells' or do you say 'yes, quite well, he runs a relaxed department, keeps the woek varied and interesting, and it's a great environment'.
Sorry but without going into too much detail, one particular player explained the reasons for being behind PP & even went on to say what a great motivator he was. Didn't sound like party line to me & the player spoke freely & honestly all night on all manner of subjects. But its all about opinion & interpretation i suppose so i reiterate, it swung my opinion.
i think a backs to basic aproach is needed so Parky needs beheading and his head placed on a pike on top on the North Stand. With a sign saying NEXT !!!!!!
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]i think a backs to basic aproach is needed so Parky needs beheading and his head placed on a pike on top on the North Stand. With a sign saying NEXT !!!!!!
I'll only go along with that if the same happens to Pardew and Dowie...
SOMEof the people firmly against Parky staying haven't been to enough games to decide surely? No offence but your names are American, Prague and Denmark.
I accept that the results themselves are poo, but there is a better feel about the team now and I stand by what i've said many a time now.
Money + Good Manager = Bye bye Parky
No money = Parky
Fair point Dazzler, I have seen very few games one game this season against Palace, so you are absolutely right in that I have not been able to watch the players and team up close on a regular basis. This is probably a good thing!
So, all I have to base my oppinion on is league position, results and the general vibe from friends, posts on here and on 606 which is mostly grim reading.
Honestly? Feels like i'm talking about them behind their backs. Like i'm betraying their trust if you like. I may be going ott but thats the feeling i get. I was privileged to get the opportunity to talk to them, its a bit like when we have City Addicks do's, somethings just dont get said after. It's true, it was a much more positive night than expected.
Well, if you don't feel comfortable about it, of course not. Personally, I feel that when such things are positive, it can't do any harm whereas if they are negative, of course it can. But I wasn't there.
Our problem is that most of us hardly understand what it means to be a good football manager. We try to think of it like any other kind of manager, but it isnt. But we don't know how or why not. The people that do are those that are managed.
I got the impression the main difference between Parky & Pardoo is communication. Parky is better at it by the sounds of it. Whereas Kinsella is Charlton through & through (& mad apparently, who'd have thought it?)
The link below is a link to a story in the Norwich Evening News. It makes some interesting observations about Leicester's experience last season. What I did not realise is that despite having a wealthy owner they only spent £500,000 on new players last summer. It seems Nigel Pearson was doing pretty much the same thing as Parky last season but obviously with different results. A Leicester supporter also pointed out that in some ways the experience was enjoyable after losing most games the previous season.
Comments
He was only telling the press and the fans what he needs to do in the summer. If he's still here he's clearly already started looking at players and working on bringing them in.
It's better than him saying if we can keep this squad together, don't need to bring many players in, we can go straight back up. He's seen we need to strengthen, it's clear we need better strikers and more defenders.
What he came out and said was true. Whether he's in charge or someone else, they have to keep the better players, let plenty go and re-build the squad. We need more firepower up front. If Parkinson or the new manager gets it wrong, we won't go up, as he said, it's very important that the club get everything right in the next 2 months.
All the more reason to hire him or fire him. The next eight weeks are going to be important in deciding who goes and who is identified as targets to sign. Either let PP get on with it or appoint a new man in good time so that he can. We have all known for ages about PP so what new information can the board be looking at in deciding if they are going to appoint him. This close season is enormous for Charlton. Imho we need to make decisions to give the chosen man time and confidence to do his job.
I agree, the sooner it's sorted out the better. They must be dealing with it now and I hope it won't take much longer.
Only thing that could delay it is a potential takeover, probably the difference between a new manager and Parkinson.
I thought this was exactly [b]what Parky has done[/b], Seth .... ?[/quote]
If Parkinson has tried to effect change since November, with resources available to him, then he has failed miserably, unlike Brendan Rogers, Nigel Clough and Billy Davis...there was a period this season when I thought I was seeing the same game over and over again, this was revived recently in the two 2-2 draws. All I detect is parkinson getting lucky with a few players being available to him that were injured, and a relaxed attitude after relegation...very little to pinpoint what he has successfully made happen. I am also mindful that this is the man who said how much he would like to sign Kandol, before promptly dropping him from the team.
why should hudson be one f the best in this league that is like saying burton could be a 30 goal a season man in this league
hudson = poo all season
mate i hope he goes we are going to be bombarded with long balls for a longtime this season and he aint up to dealing with them the bloke is poop
So on ability what is he? A poor League One centre back, decent League Two?
I think it's likely he'll go because of his wages anyway. Then we'll get someone like Sodje in, better in the air but even worse on the ball.
No offence taken, not least because I declared upfront that I haven't seen them since January. I'd also point out that I'm not as firm as AA, and he told me to "see the light"
On the other hand, there is an upside to having seen less of them. Last season (07-08) one of the games I saw was the defeat of Palace. I came away telling myself we would kick on from there and at least reach the playoffs. That's the trouble. The occasional enjoyable performance (and it doesnt get more enjoyable than that) fills you with hope. But hope isn't rational. Back here I rely on the results, and a view culled from the 100 or so people here that did go. The results say that he has made no measurable impact, despite your qualitative view that performances have improved. Of his signings, only Darren Ward seems to get majority approval. One or two other people have said that we have played more of a passing game recently. Trouble is that only seems to have appeared after our fate was sealed. On the right day,given the right mood, any professional team can play a good passing game. Barnsley against Chelsea, Walsall against us in the Cup. They didn't translate that into their regular league performances. On the other hand Doncaster and Swansea have set out to play that way throughout the season, and stuck with it even when things were going wrong. In Doncaster's case that's particularly impressive. Since Doncaster don't have our parachute money, our support, or any particularly rich benefactor, you've got to say its down to the manager.
It just isn't enough to say performances have improved. They never improved enough to even question the evidence that overall we have been the worst team in the league. With all that parachute money, one of the largest squads, and longer on the task than, e.g Billy Davies at Forest.
I think AA may approve of this one...:-)
That is a very good point.
as i said our results speak for themself we have been chitty chitty bang bang but under parky their has been more fight more desire and more youth ;o)
I'll only go along with that if the same happens to Pardew and Dowie...
Fair point Dazzler, I have seen very few games one game this season against Palace, so you are absolutely right in that I have not been able to watch the players and team up close on a regular basis. This is probably a good thing!
So, all I have to base my oppinion on is league position, results and the general vibe from friends, posts on here and on 606 which is mostly grim reading.
I hope to come to more next year.
TTFN
Why don't you want to go into detail? You don't have to name the player, and you will be saying positive things. It can only help.
Our problem is that most of us hardly understand what it means to be a good football manager. We try to think of it like any other kind of manager, but it isnt. But we don't know how or why not. The people that do are those that are managed.
I'm just looking for a reason to believe...
Written by Tim Hardin, on his first album.
;o)
Oh deary me!
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