Ok lets put this another way to Mr Chappel (del boy) if he had a Property Manager whose task was to get the company portfolio in profit etc but had missed all his/her targets and if fact the company was in its worst state since God was in shorts -----------would he stick by him after saying in public this job was dependant on results ? did he make his dosh by "seeing what will happen"--- "better the twat we know"--- "he is a nice guy though".
Parkinson has to go for the reasons so eloquently stated allready by other posters. OUr decline hastened after pardew's departure with parky at the helm. This 'improvement' of 4 wins during his tenure and quite a few draws, which we arguably should have held on in to win, is hardly epic. Our last two wins came against Southampton who were in complete disarray following administration and Norwich, in a game that was meaningless to us and Norwich simply failed to turn up. So 50% of our wins were against teams that couldn't win themselves and are relegated alongside ourselves is not exactly impressive, but merely what one would expect.
Chosing to stay with a manager who sealed our relegation, because things MIGHT improve in league one, having so abjectly failed in the championship seems madness. Jusging parky on past performances suggests that future performances will be similar, there is no evidence to suggest other.
Bringing in a new manager, as done by Forest and Watford, can only lead to an improvement based on the fact that things can't get any worse.
[cite]Posted By: Dazzler21[/cite]Do you hear the FOGHORN?
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRING
That's OK dazzler, and thanks for your contribution. You could start a Parky is great thread and spend your time reading the widespread appreciation of the man, or you could just accept that others have the right to express their views on a forum.
–noun, plural fo⋅rums, fo⋅ra /ˈfɔrə, ˈfoʊrə/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fawr-uh, fohr-uh] Show IPA . 1. the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people.
2. a court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion.
3. an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.
4. the Forum, the forum in the ancient city of Rome.
Origin:
1425–75; late ME < L: marketplace, public place, akin to forīs, forās outside, foris door
Was Norwich the walkover it seemed? Burton scoring a hatrick and only one recognised centre half would seem to indicate so. I missed it due to other pressing engagements.
i couldnt believe they didnt seem up for it at all -- little fight---no real football from open play. At half time i said they would steam in to us and we would wobble but they didnt. we where 3 goals better at least.
I have to say that comparing where Forest, Watford and Charlton were in November - all in the bottom three, looking clueless and staring down the barrel of a gun- and seeing the respective progress (or lack of it) that the three sides have made in the six months since is a pretty damning indictment of Parkinson's tenure!
[cite]Posted By: Dazzler21[/cite]Do you hear the FOGHORN?
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRING
That's OK dazzler, and thanks for your contribution. You could start a Parky is great thread....
Lol thanks for that I kind of already know what a Forum is!
I have never said Parky is great but if you can find a good manager who will accept £200k a year, then please get their details to the club ASAP.
MY WHOLE POINT ON THE PARKY DEBATE IS USE WHAT WE HAVE FOR THE MONEY WE HAVE! IF WE GET TAKEN OVER THEN GREAT GET IN SOMEONE BETTER BUT UNTIL THEN PARKY STAYS.
(drat sorry bout caps that's our computer system - don't want to go back through and re-type!
[cite]Posted By: Addickson's God[/cite]Parky has not demonstrated that he can teach our side to defend, as can be seen by the poor 1st goal we conceded against Norwich. Most of the goals we let in this year were not pieces of sublime skill from the opposition but our failure to clear the ball from set plays or prevent crosses; basic defending. Going down a division is not going to make it less likely that teams will punish us in a similar fashion. Also I don't really want to see 4-5-1 at home or eleven men defending corners. Parky has to go, he hasn't a clue.
He doesn't want to use 4-5-1, even away from home. He's said his preferred formation is 4-4-2. All this "he's a negative manager" is really just based on him trying to get the best out of unbalanced squad with little quality and goalscoring ability up front.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]i couldnt believe they didnt seem up for it at all -- little fight---no real football from open play. At half time i said they would steam in to us and we would wobble but they didnt. we where 3 goals better at least.
Norwich where awful.
They were, a loose ball bounced outside our area near the start of the game, I expected the Norwich players to be charging after it, but they didn't. They played like that the whole game. I expected them to be chasing everything and throwing themselves into tackles.
[cite]Posted By: c4fcdenmark[/cite]Parkinson has to go for the reasons so eloquently stated allready by other posters. OUr decline hastened after pardew's departure with parky at the helm. This 'improvement' of 4 wins during his tenure and quite a few draws, which we arguably should have held on in to win, is hardly epic. Our last two wins came against Southampton who were in complete disarray following administration and Norwich, in a game that was meaningless to us and Norwich simply failed to turn up. So 50% of our wins were against teams that couldn't win themselves and are relegated alongside ourselves is not exactly impressive, but merely what one would expect.
Chosing to stay with a manager who sealed our relegation, because things MIGHT improve in league one, having so abjectly failed in the championship seems madness. Jusging parky on past performances suggests that future performances will be similar, there is no evidence to suggest other.
Bringing in a new manager, as done by Forest and Watford, can only lead to an improvement based on the fact that things can't get any worse.
Actually our decline started when Pardew got things wrong in the summer (well you could argue Reid going or Dowie, Reed etc before that, but he had a fresh start last summer). We had a few wins and it covered it up. The squad was unbalanced and we didn't have any natural goalscorers.
Then we really started struggling, had no confidence, couldn't stop letting in goals and never looked like creating chances never mind scoring them. Parkinson then had a hard job just to get us looking like a team again.
At the time we should have got a fresh manager in to make an immediate impact, but now it's a very different situation and it's not as simple as four wins = he's got to go. The different opinions on here show that.
Bringing doesn't only lead to an improvement, extreme example look at Les Reed who did actually make things worse.
Cheers Dazzler, The Caps key is a pain and I usually press it instead of the letter A. Cheap point scoring with the forum definition, no offence ment, apologies otherwise.
Takeover would be dream scenarion, investment and less financial pressure in binning off parky.
However, with no investment, the board should at least be drawing up a shortlist of cheap candidates, possibly with the assistance of someone in the know, Curbs(?), who has a vested interest in the club's future success.
Lots of names mentioned previously, dismiss parkinson, draw up a shortlist and get them in for interview.
sorry..........i'm so much on the fench over this that I think the splinters have starting to grow inside me !
over the past few months I have been (very) soundly in the Parky OUT camp - mainly due to the fact of his dismal signings. Recently though I have become to like and agree with what he has said post games and in the matchday programme and now starting to vere on the side of giving him next season to prove himself with HIS team. Crucial to all this will be his dealings in the transfer market and the use of 442, esp at home.
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]I am really struggling to find evidence of what Parkinson has brought to the table that is a) any good and b) more than any of us could've done.
.
I've given my thoughts on Parky on the previous page, but in direct response to this:
1. Made Racon a key player in the side.
2. Made a bold decision right at the beginning by outing the experienced keeper and bringing in a rookie.
3. Immediately outed and replaced an underperforming Lloyd Sam. Lloyd has now ended the season in his best ever form.
4. With an abundance of centre mids, has turned an error-strung Nicky Bailey in a top-scoring POTY.
5. Helped turn Wagstaff into something resembling a footballer again.
I'd add to the Wagstaff point of how he is helping the young players develop in the right way compared to Pardew. He put Wagstaff in very early, talked him up (as he did with older players such as Hudson and Varney) and it didn't work. Parkinson has said players like Mambo, Starvinou and Clark aren't yet ready so he won't play them, but they might be in the future. Seems to be judging their ability, potential and just how ready they are physically and mentally better than Pardew ever did.
Also bringing Nick Davies back as sports scientist and improving the fitness of the squad.
Also:
Didn't succumb to the ridiculous pressure by some supporters to play Dickson, who was clearly not ready for Championship football. Instead he gave Dickson a chance to prove himself, which he failed to accept,
Recruited an excellent CH in Darren Ward,
Selected the formation that was right for the players he had available (4-5-1) rather than sticking with 4-4-2.
[cite]Posted By: Red_Pete[/cite]Also:
Didn't succumb to the ridiculous pressure by some supporters to play Dickson, who was clearly not ready for Championship football. Instead he gave Dickson a chance to prove himself, which he failed to accept,
Recruited an excellent CH in Darren Ward,
Selected the formation that was right for the players he had available (4-5-1) rather than sticking with 4-4-2.
Spot on there with that one. Especially with the formation. Why put two forwards up front when they are crap? much better to cram the midfiled with players that can score, or even look like scoring.
Good arguments that almost sway my, up until now, vehement anti Parky feelings. However, despite rehabilitating these players, his record stands at 4 wins, countless draws snatched from the jaws of victories and a paltry bottom league position 13 points adrift.
[cite]Posted By: c4fcdenmark[/cite]
his record stands at 4 wins, countless draws snatched from the jaws of victories and a paltry bottom league position 13 points adrift.
This is when the parky bubble bursts for me.
And no one in their right mind would argue that they are both valid points and dire statistics.
But the point I, and i think others, are trying to make is that it is not cut and dried. There are some springs of positives that have not delivered results this season, but show that with a full pre-season and his own signings and stamp on the squad, it may well be different.
Everything has to be weighed up against if you was to release then with our current budget what you would replace with. I don't think some understand that at lower level, how much finances dictate decisions.
One thing i think everyone does agree on, whatever way the decision is made, it needs to be made soon, made public, and for everyone to accept whatever decision it is and move on and be supportive of this or another regime going into a new season.
We can't start another season at crossroads and division.
The moment when I realised Parkinson was hopeless was when I missed a whole bunch of games in Ferbruary while I went skiing and then flew straight to the Caribbean for the Barbados test match.
While I was away, we beat Plymouth, I think, and got a couple of draws away from home. I looked on Charlton Life and it was full of people claiming a corner had been turned, Parky really had us playing as a team, we now had a fighting chance of staying up etc etc.
Then I looked at the table - and in the course of this alleged corner-turning run, we had actually slipped FURTHER behind Watford, Barnsley, Forest, Doncaster, Derby etc.
Parky had done really well, everybody reckoned on CL - but somehow the manager of every other relegation-threatened team had done even better. When I mentioned this at the time, somebody on here responded by saying the results attained by our main rivals had been ''unbelievable'' (a comment I confess I didn't quite understand...)
Anyway, that was when I realised that although he's a nice bloke, an honest journeyman and a diligent trier, Phil Parkinson's best just isn't good enough.
AFKABartram, appreciate and respect your views entirely. I just hope that the board is brave enough to make the right decision and that all options are properly considered. Financially we will be a true league one side next season without new investment and lots of considerations will have to be made when players are out of contract, predatory bids come in for our better players like, possibly, Bailey, Racon Shelvey and these will have to be fended off or sold for the highest possible sum. Is Parky the right man to make these important decisions? Should the board be using a 'consultant' to identify potential managers who also has a vested interest in the club, a Curbs I daresay?
Whatever the oputcome, a decision needs to be made fast, the board meeting on 11th seems the latest a decsion can be made. If he is binned, how long would it take to draw up a shortlist for interview and for that process to be completed. This is my prefferred option which, if done soone, can lead to a preseason of rebuilding and to attack league one with new ideas and new players, which will be required, whoever is in charge.
There has been much said on this site about the failure of our strikers and of our inability to create enough chances and Parkinsons negative tactics of playing more often than not 4 - 5 - 1. However, 9 teams in The Championship this season scored less goals than we did but no other team conceded more than our 74. The priority imho for Parkinson when he took the helm should always have been to get things right at the back first and I am sorry to say I have seen precsious little evidence of enough quality defensive coaching to give me hope for the future. Time after time we give away simple goals that should be avoided. I am I admit now a fence sitter regarding PP but the evidence is hard to ignore.
[cite]Posted By: c4fcdenmark[/cite]Should the board be using a 'consultant' to identify potential managers who also has a vested interest in the club, a Curbs I daresay?
No. The club is reducing costs on everything it possibly can. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of consultants, or directors of football etc, an additional expense is never going to happen now.
[cite]Posted By: c4fcdenmark[/cite]
I just hope that the board is brave enough to make the right decision and that all options are properly considered.
And there lies the rub. The 'right decision' can only be known with the benefit of hindsight. Using the examples of the decisions to be made, actually Parky is the best one to make those decisions, certainly better than any outside manager that have never seen any of those players play, train etc.
The more i write, the more i'm coming round to keeping, something i could not of believed a couple of weeks ago.
Comments
so, as I said...............all pulling together
:-D
Chosing to stay with a manager who sealed our relegation, because things MIGHT improve in league one, having so abjectly failed in the championship seems madness. Jusging parky on past performances suggests that future performances will be similar, there is no evidence to suggest other.
Bringing in a new manager, as done by Forest and Watford, can only lead to an improvement based on the fact that things can't get any worse.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRING
That's OK dazzler, and thanks for your contribution. You could start a Parky is great thread and spend your time reading the widespread appreciation of the man, or you could just accept that others have the right to express their views on a forum.
–noun, plural fo⋅rums, fo⋅ra /ˈfɔrə, ˈfoʊrə/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fawr-uh, fohr-uh] Show IPA . 1. the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people.
2. a court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion.
3. an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.
4. the Forum, the forum in the ancient city of Rome.
Origin:
1425–75; late ME < L: marketplace, public place, akin to forīs, forās outside, foris door
Apart from us.
Norwich where awful.
Lol thanks for that I kind of already know what a Forum is!
I have never said Parky is great but if you can find a good manager who will accept £200k a year, then please get their details to the club ASAP.
MY WHOLE POINT ON THE PARKY DEBATE IS USE WHAT WE HAVE FOR THE MONEY WE HAVE! IF WE GET TAKEN OVER THEN GREAT GET IN SOMEONE BETTER BUT UNTIL THEN PARKY STAYS.
(drat sorry bout caps that's our computer system - don't want to go back through and re-type!
He doesn't want to use 4-5-1, even away from home. He's said his preferred formation is 4-4-2. All this "he's a negative manager" is really just based on him trying to get the best out of unbalanced squad with little quality and goalscoring ability up front.
They were, a loose ball bounced outside our area near the start of the game, I expected the Norwich players to be charging after it, but they didn't. They played like that the whole game. I expected them to be chasing everything and throwing themselves into tackles.
Actually our decline started when Pardew got things wrong in the summer (well you could argue Reid going or Dowie, Reed etc before that, but he had a fresh start last summer). We had a few wins and it covered it up. The squad was unbalanced and we didn't have any natural goalscorers.
Then we really started struggling, had no confidence, couldn't stop letting in goals and never looked like creating chances never mind scoring them. Parkinson then had a hard job just to get us looking like a team again.
At the time we should have got a fresh manager in to make an immediate impact, but now it's a very different situation and it's not as simple as four wins = he's got to go. The different opinions on here show that.
Bringing doesn't only lead to an improvement, extreme example look at Les Reed who did actually make things worse.
Takeover would be dream scenarion, investment and less financial pressure in binning off parky.
However, with no investment, the board should at least be drawing up a shortlist of cheap candidates, possibly with the assistance of someone in the know, Curbs(?), who has a vested interest in the club's future success.
Lots of names mentioned previously, dismiss parkinson, draw up a shortlist and get them in for interview.
over the past few months I have been (very) soundly in the Parky OUT camp - mainly due to the fact of his dismal signings. Recently though I have become to like and agree with what he has said post games and in the matchday programme and now starting to vere on the side of giving him next season to prove himself with HIS team. Crucial to all this will be his dealings in the transfer market and the use of 442, esp at home.
I've given my thoughts on Parky on the previous page, but in direct response to this:
1. Made Racon a key player in the side.
2. Made a bold decision right at the beginning by outing the experienced keeper and bringing in a rookie.
3. Immediately outed and replaced an underperforming Lloyd Sam. Lloyd has now ended the season in his best ever form.
4. With an abundance of centre mids, has turned an error-strung Nicky Bailey in a top-scoring POTY.
5. Helped turn Wagstaff into something resembling a footballer again.
Also bringing Nick Davies back as sports scientist and improving the fitness of the squad.
Wagstaff
Bailey
Youga
Hudson - he will always be broken though
Parky has show ability to rectify these:
Wagstaff
Bailey
Youga
Didn't succumb to the ridiculous pressure by some supporters to play Dickson, who was clearly not ready for Championship football. Instead he gave Dickson a chance to prove himself, which he failed to accept,
Recruited an excellent CH in Darren Ward,
Selected the formation that was right for the players he had available (4-5-1) rather than sticking with 4-4-2.
And what Pete said, add Murty to it as well.
Something Bouazza slated us on!
Good arguments that almost sway my, up until now, vehement anti Parky feelings. However, despite rehabilitating these players, his record stands at 4 wins, countless draws snatched from the jaws of victories and a paltry bottom league position 13 points adrift.
This is when the parky bubble bursts for me.
And no one in their right mind would argue that they are both valid points and dire statistics.
But the point I, and i think others, are trying to make is that it is not cut and dried. There are some springs of positives that have not delivered results this season, but show that with a full pre-season and his own signings and stamp on the squad, it may well be different.
Everything has to be weighed up against if you was to release then with our current budget what you would replace with. I don't think some understand that at lower level, how much finances dictate decisions.
One thing i think everyone does agree on, whatever way the decision is made, it needs to be made soon, made public, and for everyone to accept whatever decision it is and move on and be supportive of this or another regime going into a new season.
We can't start another season at crossroads and division.
The moment when I realised Parkinson was hopeless was when I missed a whole bunch of games in Ferbruary while I went skiing and then flew straight to the Caribbean for the Barbados test match.
While I was away, we beat Plymouth, I think, and got a couple of draws away from home. I looked on Charlton Life and it was full of people claiming a corner had been turned, Parky really had us playing as a team, we now had a fighting chance of staying up etc etc.
Then I looked at the table - and in the course of this alleged corner-turning run, we had actually slipped FURTHER behind Watford, Barnsley, Forest, Doncaster, Derby etc.
Parky had done really well, everybody reckoned on CL - but somehow the manager of every other relegation-threatened team had done even better. When I mentioned this at the time, somebody on here responded by saying the results attained by our main rivals had been ''unbelievable'' (a comment I confess I didn't quite understand...)
Anyway, that was when I realised that although he's a nice bloke, an honest journeyman and a diligent trier, Phil Parkinson's best just isn't good enough.
Whatever the oputcome, a decision needs to be made fast, the board meeting on 11th seems the latest a decsion can be made. If he is binned, how long would it take to draw up a shortlist for interview and for that process to be completed. This is my prefferred option which, if done soone, can lead to a preseason of rebuilding and to attack league one with new ideas and new players, which will be required, whoever is in charge.
No. The club is reducing costs on everything it possibly can. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of consultants, or directors of football etc, an additional expense is never going to happen now.
And there lies the rub. The 'right decision' can only be known with the benefit of hindsight. Using the examples of the decisions to be made, actually Parky is the best one to make those decisions, certainly better than any outside manager that have never seen any of those players play, train etc.
The more i write, the more i'm coming round to keeping, something i could not of believed a couple of weeks ago.