The only thing I dont like about Parky has been the dreaded and now infamous word uttered by Derek Chappell namely 'results'.
On every other level I think he has behaved very professionally and in a dignified way. My hope is that the despair of this season is making Parky even hungrier to prove he can be a success and in difficult circumstances. So the adversity of this season may have some beneficial effect.
I like his comment that next season starts today. I am sure that was directed at the Board as much as us in terms of getting a resolution to the clubs financial status and ownership wrapped up asap. Probably easier to say mind you.
I prefer a fresh face and a new start, but only if the new face is going to be appointed now so he can oversee the re-shaping of the squad and has a reasonable track record. I respect Parky for the effort he put in with scant resources. However there have been too many squandered leads, and too many lost games where we went a goal down and never looked likely to get an equaliser, let alone a winner. This season we've been a soft touch and regardless of circumstances Parky has to take some of the responsibility for that.
Whatever the board decide I hope and expect them to make a decision this week.
We need to start building now, Id like Parky to stay, a takeover and a new manager who players really want to play for being the only other alternative.
There is no evidence that Parkinson will do any good. At the fag end of the season when we have to look like something in order for managers and players to extend contracts, or get a lucrative move, against other teams who in some cases have begun to wind down, is no evidence as far as I can see. When it really really mattered Parkinson didn't deliver, even when he was caretaker and one would think he would strive like hell to get a result to get the job...no wins at all. The board incomprehensibly then gave him the job. Where is the evidence that he is any good...it seems to be little more than he is a sweet familiar face bless him, and that's it!!!
To those that have suddenly "warmed up to Parky" ...
Have you lost your bottle? Has this disaster of a season made you so desperate for any success, that you are willing to settle for anything even remotely resembling progress?
It is all a mirage, folks.
Like walking through the desert and believing you see water ahead. Only when you get there, there is no oasis, just more sand. So you look ahead again, and it again looks like water off in the distance ...
How much of the improved performances had to do with the club already being relegated, with no pressure on them to perform?
How well did they play when they still had a chance, even if only a mathematical chance, to pull themselves out of the muck?
Some people have actually stated that Charlton had the best midfield in The Championship, once all of them became fit enough to play.
With the so-called 'best midfield in the division' and Parky at the helm, that amounted to two victories in 14 matches!
How is that even remotely close to being good enough?
A 4-2 home victory over the hapless Canaries cannot be enough to wash away all of the late goals surrendered and the tactical naivety that has become our manager's hallmark.
"Warming up to Parky?" Or starving supporters lowering their standards so much they will accept warmed up leftovers?
Two victories in 14 matches at basically full strength. Four victories in 28 matches, yet statements like "the devil that you know is better than the one that you don't?"
Really? I don't want that devil managing my club. Any devil could come up with those poor results, so I'd take a calculated chance on someone else.
When Parky was hired after eight winless matches as caretaker boss, after Derek Chappell had said his permanent hiring would be based on "results," the plc chairman was, and has consistently been, slated for that remark.
If you are willing to bring Parky back, with his record at the helm, then actual "results" mean nothing to you.
I can understand the school of thought regarding Parkinson being considered as a builder of a squad in League 1, improvements have been made whether people like it or not and he has had the millstone of Chappells comments to contend with, not to mention the dire state the club has been in for a long while now always made it a poisoned chalice of a job- but sadly the performance improvements have come at a time when they have not made any tangible difference to our already desperate situation and ultimately as nice a chap as Phil is (and I believe he is a genuine guy who wants to do his best for us) it has to be said that he just doesn't inspire confidence that he can rebuild our side. I don't know if it has ever been muted that Phil could possibly return to number two and be used to help a more go ahead boss that could put fire in the belly whilst he could provide his knowledge of the level we are now at, though that would probably be impractical on a variety of levels. Ultimately I feel a new broom is really what is required, someone who can fire us up and get us back to the business end of the Championship- who that person is depends largely on all the factors we have discussed numerous times.
Jesus!! We beat the worse looking side and the third confirmed worse side in the division and pro Parky starts up.
Their defence proved on the day to be total cr@p even worse than ours and a side that had everything to play for and still died after 30 mins.
Lets get in the real world and look at the bigger picture i.e. all his results and what about the Derby game and the 2 games at home before Norwich. Those kinds of negative displays would not bring promotion.
I am not totally against Parkinson but he certainly hasn't done anything to deserve another crack. I suppose people will tell me Deon Burton is prolific goal scorer after the Norwich game to.
I'm sorry how can anyone back this man. Yes, he may be a nice bloke and all that tosh but if the players really think that performances are improving then there is something really wrong. I mean had we stuck with Pardew I can bet we still would have got more wins, and more than 39 bloody points. As Parky said in his interview post Norwich I think the board should tell him within the next week that he should move on and we can get someone else in on a low budget, doesn't matter if he is an unknown, just someone cheap and we can build from there. We are probably going to have a whole new squad anyone with only maybe 2 or 3 survivors from this year so its not going to make a huge difference IMO and to be honest if we can finish in the top 10 next year I will be more than happy cause to try and do a Leicster is complete madness as we do not have the finances to risk failing again.
I greatly respect the views of those who think he should be given a chance. People are trying to be fair and sensible. And before saying why I still disagree i should also declare that I haven't seen them play live since the Norwich cup tie. But the fact remains that when i last saw them, we were rock bottom and four months later that's where we ended. We never even made an attempt to get out of it, and that despite directors saying publicly in January that they thought we had a chance to do so. The results, the surrendering of leads, the complete failure to build on the Palace win in subsequent games, the generally poor performance of most of his loanees, these are all FACTS, and the facts say he can't do the job.
The counter argument is that people have seen an improvement recently. What worries me is this. All teams, even crap ones, show some improvement. All the teams above us did. That is why we finished rock bottom. People also point to the return of ZZ and Racon, and Shelvey's emergence. well maybe THAT explains the improvement. In which case, where is the Parky factor in this improvement? I'm really sorry, I do agree that its important to have a person of integrity, and yes, good programme notes matter, but they are not enough to keep you in the job if you can't get the results.
Having said all that there is one way I'd be persuaded. If Richard Murray were to start letting it be known that he really believes Parky has made a difference, and gives us some clue how he makes that difference, I'd back Richard, and Parky. And he has ways of getting those kind of messages out to us. But until I hear that, and BTW also that Richard's view is the prevailing one in the boardroom, I'm sorry, I think Parky has to go, this week.
On the plus side: a decent bloke, who has always tried to be positive. Made some good loan signings in Ward and Murty, maybe Soares/kandol. Brought on a few of the kids when he could, although Shelvey would have made it anyway...
Negatives: Pardew's accomplice, Lost/drew many games through lack of steel and iron will. Too much hoof ball for my liking. Like Pardew, used too many loanees and lost the spirit in the camp i.e Moo2, Weaver. Didn't get a good enough striker to fire us out of danger (but to be fair that would have been very difficult but in the distant past Cliff Holton and Ron Saunders did just that!) Fans want to be excited about something. If we get a new owner, they will want a fresh start with a new management team.
oh whooppee. he writes good programme notes. As a Manager though he hasn't got a clue. Four wins in 28. Well done. The 'improvement', such as it is, is down to the return of Racon and ZZ and the immergence of Shelvey, nothing to actually do with Parky's ability. During this period of 'improvement' we have won 2 games in 14, against Sothampton and Norwich who have been relegated with us. Massive wins those were. Narwich were shocking on Sunday and if we hadn't beaten them I'd be disgusted. There hasn't really been an 'improvement', at least not one of any substance. He may be a nice bloke, as I'm sure Shearer is, but it doesn't make him a good manager. He has had his chance, made two permanent signings and numerous loan signings but none have ultimately made a difference. Nice bloke, so what. I want the best manager we can get whether he is nice or a git.
EDIT: If you're not willing to accept that Parky was in some way involved in the growth of our midfield with Shelvey/Racon/ZiZi, then look at Youga instead, who gave a more commanding performance at centre-back yesterday than Mark Hudson has for the majority of this season.
Big difference between yesterrday and towards the end of Pardew's reign, his performance against Bristol City comes to mind.
There has been an improvement. Our form guide over the last 8 games puts us 11th. Had we held on to our 2-0 leads against Cardiff and Blackpool which we should have done it would have put us 5th and level with newly promoted Birmingham who to be honest didnt look better on the day against us anyway.
Pardew was a disaster footballing and financially. Zabeel was the next nail in the coffin. And Parkys inability to turn it around quickly was the final straw in consigning us to League 1. Injuries played there part at crucial times too. But there have been improvements.Whether it is enough I really dont know.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]During this period of 'improvement' we have won 2 games in 14, against Sothampton and Norwich who have been relegated with us.
Or 2 defeats in 10, against Wolves & Derby County. We also picked up draws away at Reading and against Birmingham. You can put all sorts of spin on facts to make them say what you want.
yep, and take a look at Reading's recent home form too. We should have been three down by half-time and were lucky to escape with a point. I'll spin it in whichever way I want and you'll do likewise so let's stick to the facts then.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]During this period of 'improvement' we have won 2 games in 14, against Sothampton and Norwich who have been relegated with us.
Or 2 defeats in 10, against Wolves & Derby County. We also picked up draws away at Reading and against Birmingham. You can put all sorts of spin on facts to make them say what you want.
The fact is that is doesn't matter about results against Div 2 teams because we're in Div 3.
We don't know how we'll do against the teams currently in Div 3 because we haven't played them yet.
But we have played two of next season's (likely near the top) teams and we beat them both.
In addition I feel that the performances that have been resulting in draws against Div 2 teams would more than likely result in wins against Div 3 teams.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]During this period of 'improvement' we have won 2 games in 14, against Sothampton and Norwich who have been relegated with us.
Or 2 defeats in 10, against Wolves & Derby County. We also picked up draws away at Reading and against Birmingham. You can put all sorts of spin on facts to make them say what you want.
And then right after two hard fought away draws (Reading and Swansea) we had two must win home games against Doncaster and Watford and on both occasions we lost. Both Watford and Doncaster weren't that far ahead of us in the table and needed the points but what differed was that they were both well organised and played to a game plan, while we were just lamentable.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]yep, and take a look at Reading's recent home form too. We should have been three down by half-time and were lucky to escape with a point. I'll spin it in whichever way I want and you'll do likewise so let's stick to the facts then.
4 WINS IN 28 GAMES. Enough said.
Just as lucky as Birmingham, Cardiff & Blackpool were to leave SE7 with a point. Neither do I feel the improvements in performances were obvious until much later on, it would've taken ages for Parkinson to rebuild any of those player's confidence after Parrdew was sacked and seen as he's now done that, I feel the only way we can go is back up with him in charge.
Doncaster, watford, Birmingham, Cardiff, Blackpool : you are all harping on about teams in a league above us.
Forget them.
Think about the teams in Div3: with Parky allowed to continue, I reckon we'll beat them. That's all that matters.
Sometimes you need a bit of distance to get the true perspective, so perhaps it is no coincidence that IMO the two most articulate and cogent posts in this thread come from American and Prague.
Nothing to add to what they both wrote because they said it far more eloquently than I can.
The fact is that is doesn't matter about results against Div 2 teams because we're in Div 3.
We don't know how we'll do against the teams currently in Div 3 because we haven't played them yet.
But we have played two of next season's (likely near the top) teams and we beat them both.
In addition I feel that the performances that have been resulting in draws against Div 2 teams would more than likely result in wins against Div 3 teams.
But we were in division two when we played those teams, that we are now in division three is because our performances throughout the season were lamentable.
As to how we'll play in division three, I dare say we'll start off as both favourites for promotion and at the same time some of those teams are going to wonder how mentally strong we are. They'll have noted that we drew games after conceding late equalisers and only managed to beat a couple of other weak teams. In short they'll fancy their chances against us.
"In addition I feel that the performances that have been resulting in draws against Div 2 teams would more than likely result in wins against Div 3 teams"
That isn't much to boast about is it? There is a reason why we are with those other teams in tier three and it's because they and we are not good enough to play at a higher level. Plus you have to factor in that our strongest team on paper will be broken up., at least one of ZZ, bailey, Shelvey and Racon will go, so will the loanees. So the team that was gettting draws this year won't even exist next season and that means that we'll be relying very much on our b team from this season - Matt Spring and Semedo in replace of ZZ and Bailey.
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]Sometimes you need a bit of distance to get the true perspective, so perhaps it is no coincidence that IMO the two most articulate and cogent posts in this thread come from American and Prague.
Nothing to add to what they both wrote because they said it far more eloquently than I can.
And Prague admits he hasnt seen the team recently!!!
Comments
On every other level I think he has behaved very professionally and in a dignified way. My hope is that the despair of this season is making Parky even hungrier to prove he can be a success and in difficult circumstances. So the adversity of this season may have some beneficial effect.
I like his comment that next season starts today. I am sure that was directed at the Board as much as us in terms of getting a resolution to the clubs financial status and ownership wrapped up asap. Probably easier to say mind you.
Whatever the board decide I hope and expect them to make a decision this week.
Have you lost your bottle? Has this disaster of a season made you so desperate for any success, that you are willing to settle for anything even remotely resembling progress?
It is all a mirage, folks.
Like walking through the desert and believing you see water ahead. Only when you get there, there is no oasis, just more sand. So you look ahead again, and it again looks like water off in the distance ...
How much of the improved performances had to do with the club already being relegated, with no pressure on them to perform?
How well did they play when they still had a chance, even if only a mathematical chance, to pull themselves out of the muck?
Some people have actually stated that Charlton had the best midfield in The Championship, once all of them became fit enough to play.
With the so-called 'best midfield in the division' and Parky at the helm, that amounted to two victories in 14 matches!
How is that even remotely close to being good enough?
A 4-2 home victory over the hapless Canaries cannot be enough to wash away all of the late goals surrendered and the tactical naivety that has become our manager's hallmark.
"Warming up to Parky?" Or starving supporters lowering their standards so much they will accept warmed up leftovers?
Two victories in 14 matches at basically full strength. Four victories in 28 matches, yet statements like "the devil that you know is better than the one that you don't?"
Really? I don't want that devil managing my club. Any devil could come up with those poor results, so I'd take a calculated chance on someone else.
When Parky was hired after eight winless matches as caretaker boss, after Derek Chappell had said his permanent hiring would be based on "results," the plc chairman was, and has consistently been, slated for that remark.
If you are willing to bring Parky back, with his record at the helm, then actual "results" mean nothing to you.
http://hilltovalley.blogspot.com/
I don't know if it has ever been muted that Phil could possibly return to number two and be used to help a more go ahead boss that could put fire in the belly whilst he could provide his knowledge of the level we are now at, though that would probably be impractical on a variety of levels.
Ultimately I feel a new broom is really what is required, someone who can fire us up and get us back to the business end of the Championship- who that person is depends largely on all the factors we have discussed numerous times.
please stop saying that he can do a job
NO HE CANT
Their defence proved on the day to be total cr@p even worse than ours and a side that had everything to play for and still died after 30 mins.
Lets get in the real world and look at the bigger picture i.e. all his results and what about the Derby game and the 2 games at home before Norwich. Those kinds of negative displays would not bring promotion.
I am not totally against Parkinson but he certainly hasn't done anything to deserve another crack. I suppose people will tell me Deon Burton is prolific goal scorer after the Norwich game to.
The counter argument is that people have seen an improvement recently. What worries me is this. All teams, even crap ones, show some improvement. All the teams above us did. That is why we finished rock bottom. People also point to the return of ZZ and Racon, and Shelvey's emergence. well maybe THAT explains the improvement. In which case, where is the Parky factor in this improvement? I'm really sorry, I do agree that its important to have a person of integrity, and yes, good programme notes matter, but they are not enough to keep you in the job if you can't get the results.
Having said all that there is one way I'd be persuaded. If Richard Murray were to start letting it be known that he really believes Parky has made a difference, and gives us some clue how he makes that difference, I'd back Richard, and Parky. And he has ways of getting those kind of messages out to us. But until I hear that, and BTW also that Richard's view is the prevailing one in the boardroom, I'm sorry, I think Parky has to go, this week.
Negatives: Pardew's accomplice, Lost/drew many games through lack of steel and iron will. Too much hoof ball for my liking. Like Pardew, used too many loanees and lost the spirit in the camp i.e Moo2, Weaver. Didn't get a good enough striker to fire us out of danger (but to be fair that would have been very difficult but in the distant past Cliff Holton and Ron Saunders did just that!) Fans want to be excited about something. If we get a new owner, they will want a fresh start with a new management team.
For me the scales weigh Parky out.
EDIT: If you're not willing to accept that Parky was in some way involved in the growth of our midfield with Shelvey/Racon/ZiZi, then look at Youga instead, who gave a more commanding performance at centre-back yesterday than Mark Hudson has for the majority of this season.
Big difference between yesterrday and towards the end of Pardew's reign, his performance against Bristol City comes to mind.
Pardew was a disaster footballing and financially. Zabeel was the next nail in the coffin. And Parkys inability to turn it around quickly was the final straw in consigning us to League 1. Injuries played there part at crucial times too. But there have been improvements.Whether it is enough I really dont know.
Or 2 defeats in 10, against Wolves & Derby County. We also picked up draws away at Reading and against Birmingham. You can put all sorts of spin on facts to make them say what you want.
4 WINS IN 28 GAMES. Enough said.
The fact is that is doesn't matter about results against Div 2 teams because we're in Div 3.
We don't know how we'll do against the teams currently in Div 3 because we haven't played them yet.
But we have played two of next season's (likely near the top) teams and we beat them both.
In addition I feel that the performances that have been resulting in draws against Div 2 teams would more than likely result in wins against Div 3 teams.
And then right after two hard fought away draws (Reading and Swansea) we had two must win home games against Doncaster and Watford and on both occasions we lost. Both Watford and Doncaster weren't that far ahead of us in the table and needed the points but what differed was that they were both well organised and played to a game plan, while we were just lamentable.
Just as lucky as Birmingham, Cardiff & Blackpool were to leave SE7 with a point. Neither do I feel the improvements in performances were obvious until much later on, it would've taken ages for Parkinson to rebuild any of those player's confidence after Parrdew was sacked and seen as he's now done that, I feel the only way we can go is back up with him in charge.
Forget them.
Think about the teams in Div3: with Parky allowed to continue, I reckon we'll beat them. That's all that matters.
Maybe. But he didn't. Now is not the time to change again.
Nobody knows how we'll do but i feel we could do really well so long as we only let players go that really NEED to go!
Nothing to add to what they both wrote because they said it far more eloquently than I can.
And Prague admits he hasnt seen the team recently!!!