We are never going to see how good Dickson (or McLeod for that matter) are until they go somewhere where they will be given a decent chance to show what they can do.
It is clear that this isn't going to happen for them at Charlton.
Sometimes you just get a gut feeling about players brought in with a fair amount of fanfare and who fail to impress.
Call it experince (I've personally had 52 years of it at The Valley)...I can honestly say that I thought 'nothing' much would come of either of these signings (McCleod and Dickson that is)...seen and heard it a number of times before I'm afraid...call it cynical if you like but I think once you've been round the block a few times you get a gut feeling for this kind of thing.....sad to say, it would seem my intuition was/is correct.
[cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]Sometimes you just get a gut feeling about players brought in with a fair amount of fanfare and who fail to impress.
Call it experince (I've personally had 52 years of it at The Valley)...I can honestly say that I thought 'nothing' much would come of either of these signings (McCleod and Dickson that is)...seen and heard it a number of times before I'm afraid...call it cynical if you like but I think once you've been round the block a few times you get a gut feeling for this kind of thing.....sad to say, it would seem my intuition was/is correct.
You may well be spot on. The aspect that is difficult to reconcile is the fact that Varney (who was only proven as a goalscorer in the same Division as Dickson scored 11 in last season in that number of games) was given so much rope to hang himself with but Chris hasn't even been given a single start to "achieve" the same "goal".
I would be bold enough to suggest that a difference in more than £2 million could just be the reason and Pards making Varney "his main man" was a final desperate attempt to galvanise Varney into believing in himself. On the subject of "belief" this is one asset that Chris is not lacking in.
Dicko is honestly Gutted that he has not been given the chance, He has felt that he has waited long enough silently for his chnace, he has nothing but respect for the fans and the club he just wants a fair crack of the whip and that is what we have not given him, all the talk about his fiorst touch may be true but he scores goals if he is that bad how does he get so many in the ressies, imo it is more due to the facvt that he has had a long run in the ressies and with the same players so he knows where to run to get the ball. it is all bollox the bloke deserves a chance
Well you and nla seem to have very different information. Think nla's makes a lot more sense. And even if you are telling the truth, doesn't bother me one bit if he moans a lot. What difference does it make?
Dicko may have moaned but i doubt if any of us on here have heard it, There is nothing wrong with Dicko moaning that he aint had a chance when that is the truth.
If he goes it will be a real shame i aint saying he is the saviour of our club because i havent seen enough of him, what i will say is that he is desperate for a chance to show us all what he can do, he loves the way we have treated him even though he wasnt even playing.
He is a real nice guy i aint his best mate i wouldnt even class him as a mate but as NSS says i have spoken too him once or twice through a mutual friend.
and he knows about this place also, What has been said here about him going i told NSS and Fatrob in the Lib b4 the Cov game and the fact that we had offered him the opo to stay and that leeds have made contact to both individuals at the club and dicko
football all about opinions, If Dicko was toilet as some are saying how did he score so many at the Gills, And why did we sign him up and offer him the contract.
From what Pards said when he brought him in is taht his raw talent for goals is there to see but his all round game is miles behind some others.
We have to remember that this guy came from non league footie and was not caoched from a young age like some of our players. it is players like this where the coaches earn their cash imo.
he cant be that bad if leeds want him also gary mac obviously sees something in him.
is it a footballer we want or a goal scorer, is there a difference i dont know
i just wish we could see for ourselves because before waghorn and gray on monday we havent had a strike partnership. We never had one striker last year that you thought if he gets a chance he will score.
i dont know any more about dicko the player than the rest of you all i know is that he wants a chance
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Dicko was offered a contract extension by us last month and was mulling it over, He has had an offer from Leeds as have the club the figure is way below what has been mentioned above.
Really? He only signed an extension to 2010 last summer.
[cite]Posted By: Barn Door Varney[/cite]We are never going to see how good Dickson (or McLeod for that matter) are until they go somewhere where they will be given a decent chance to show what they can do.
It is clear that this isn't going to happen for them at Charlton.
Still feel with McLeod even though he's not had a proper run, he isn't good enough. Only time he looked decent was when he played with Varney, and even then his finishing was poor.
Dickson should have at least had a few starts by now.
Sorry AFKA but the comment "what do we know they guys that have seen him play evey day for two years think he is kak" would these be the people that also watched and still do Youga and Mcleod ?
No I just don't see anything there almost every time I see him. He's quick and not much else at this level. Waghorn has shown he's better on the ball and more intelligent in 90 minutes than all of McLeod's matches.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Dicko was offered a contract extension by us last month and was mulling it over, He has had an offer from Leeds as have the club the figure is way below what has been mentioned above.
Really? He only signed an extension to 2010 last summer.
[cite]Posted By: Barn Door Varney[/cite]We are never going to see how good Dickson (or McLeod for that matter) are until they go somewhere where they will be given a decent chance to show what they can do.
It is clear that this isn't going to happen for them at Charlton.
Still feel with McLeod even though he's not had a proper run, he isn't good enough. Only time he looked decent was when he played with Varney, and even then his finishing was poor.
Dickson should have at least had a few starts by now.
It's all about opinions mate, and you might well be right in that at this level he isn't up to scratch. I simply don't think that he has had the chances to show either way. to me, a decent run has to be 8-10 games.
I can accept that he might not be championship level, what really winds me up is people making comments like "he's a clown" or has "no footballing brain" when his record for scoring goals, all be it at a lower level, would suggest otherwise.
I do agree it is all opinions, and calling him a clown isn't fair.
Saying he has no football brain is different, no ones saying he literally can't play football, but compared to our own strikers, and other strikers at this level, he hasn't looked good enough.
I know what you mean about a proper run, neither have had one. I'm just saying from what I've seen of McLeod he doesn't look good enough, and I wouldn't like to give him a run at the moment when we have better options.
I can't understand why some people see a player that just scores goals is a bad thing.
I don't know this for a fact as it is before my time but I've been told that Killer Hales (Charlton Legend) did little else but score goals and he is a club hero.
With the defence we have at the moment we need as many goals as possible as to be sure of a win we need to score 6.
Dicko dose have a real love for this club, people saw the way he celebrated our goals at Plymouth, and having met him he has always told me how he will always love Charlton for signing him even though he has never been given a fair crack of the whip.
This is one of our problems the management puts faith in strikers who can't score and are not predators in front of goal.
The aim of the game our team is currently failing at is to sore more goal then the other team.
[cite]Posted By: Chunes[/cite]Sco, I was just saying that because I must have read about 30 posts by you over the past few weeks and they're all slagging off Mcleod!
Fair enough I just get frustrated watching him, and end up giving my opinion when people say he hasn't had a run yet and might good enough.
As for Dickson that's why I'd like him to get a chance, or at least be on the bench. Plenty of times when we need someone who just goes out to score goals and nothing else.
[cite]Posted By: SaySomething[/cite]He's overrated, like a number of the players at the club. Unearthing 'non-league gems' is a bit of a thing of the past - the game's moved on alot since then.
He's not the answer to our goalscoring problems - I can't see why anyone got excited about him.
I
[cite]Posted By: Chunes[/cite] don't know how you can be overrated when you've yet to start a single game in 2 years!! Plus... Kightly, Finnan, etc? Furthermore... "He's not the answer to our goalscoring problems" - We will never know whether he was/would be or not. Me nor you. But his goalscoring record at every level he has played at suggests I'm more right than you are.
If the Gills bought Dickson from Dulwich Hamlets and he spent a season in that league keeping his goalscoring record in tact... And then we got relegated from the prem... How much do you think Pardew would've paid for him considering what he paid for Mcleod and Varney? And how much more of a chance would he have been given? .
Fair point re. lack of starts - being a bench warmer doesn't do him any favours, but it just seemed to me that he was only brought to the club purely as a back-up striker and not as someone who was to compete for a regular front slot. I think though that dickson could become a decent goalscorer in the lower leagues (1 or 2), but no more than that. That's why I don't think he's our solution, but maybe next season in league 1........
And if Pardew had bought him from the Gills, he would have paid between £1.1m and £2m plus add-ons and would be his main man! Then we'd be hoping to get a 'large chunk' of the fee back when it didn't work out:-)
Re; mad83's mention of Killer's goalscoring record.Admittedy Hayle's record owes much to the number of chances created for him by others i.e Powell, Flanagan, Warman etc.but not by any means were these chances laid on a plate for him and he often still had plenty of work to do, but he was a real 'Dead eye Derek'when near goal . I'm afraid Dickson bears no comparison to the real thing, being in the right place at the right time was instinctive for Hayles' and is something you're born with. And yes the defence was leaking goals all over the place but with that forward line none of the 10,000 (or less) crowd seemed too worried!
[cite]Posted By: March51[/cite]Re; mad83's mention of Killer's goalscoring record.Admittedy Hayle's record owes much to the number of chances created for him by others i.e Powell, Flanagan, Warman etc.but not by any means were these chances laid on a plate for him and he often still had plenty of work to do, but he was a real 'Dead eye Derek'when near goal . I'm afraid Dickson bears no comparison to the real thing, being in the right place at the right time was instinctive for Hayles' and is something you're born with. And yes the defence was leaking goals all over the place but with that forward line none of the 10,000 (or less) crowd seemed too worried!
Agree with that and it is also easy to forget that whilst Killer didn't run around that much he could hold the ball up with his back to goal ala Gerd Muller too which offered our often porous defence and midfield an outlet.
If Pards and Parky had been in charge of Killer he would never have been given a start as his first touch at times was that of an elephant.
Chris scored yet again last night for the Reserves albeit against Lewes in a 6-1 win. There again, he could have netted all 6 against Chelsea and it would appear that some would still say he would never be good enough.
A couple of weeks ago Ian Wright was on the Sunday morning Sky chat prog and said that the hardest thing for him to get used to was the expectation at Leagur level not to give the ball away cheaply. All I can say is that it's a good job for him and Arsenal in particular that Steve Coppell didn't treat him the same way as we have Chris.
Finally,I had to chuckle at Parky's comment "Chris is frustrated to be out of the first team at the moment and wants to move on." He's never been IN the first team Parky in case you hadn't noticed!!!
Comments
It is clear that this isn't going to happen for them at Charlton.
Call it experince (I've personally had 52 years of it at The Valley)...I can honestly say that I thought 'nothing' much would come of either of these signings (McCleod and Dickson that is)...seen and heard it a number of times before I'm afraid...call it cynical if you like but I think once you've been round the block a few times you get a gut feeling for this kind of thing.....sad to say, it would seem my intuition was/is correct.
You may well be spot on. The aspect that is difficult to reconcile is the fact that Varney (who was only proven as a goalscorer in the same Division as Dickson scored 11 in last season in that number of games) was given so much rope to hang himself with but Chris hasn't even been given a single start to "achieve" the same "goal".
I would be bold enough to suggest that a difference in more than £2 million could just be the reason and Pards making Varney "his main man" was a final desperate attempt to galvanise Varney into believing in himself. On the subject of "belief" this is one asset that Chris is not lacking in.
Cant say
Well you and nla seem to have very different information. Think nla's makes a lot more sense. And even if you are telling the truth, doesn't bother me one bit if he moans a lot. What difference does it make?
If he goes it will be a real shame i aint saying he is the saviour of our club because i havent seen enough of him, what i will say is that he is desperate for a chance to show us all what he can do, he loves the way we have treated him even though he wasnt even playing.
He is a real nice guy i aint his best mate i wouldnt even class him as a mate but as NSS says i have spoken too him once or twice through a mutual friend.
and he knows about this place also, What has been said here about him going i told NSS and Fatrob in the Lib b4 the Cov game and the fact that we had offered him the opo to stay and that leeds have made contact to both individuals at the club and dicko
From what Pards said when he brought him in is taht his raw talent for goals is there to see but his all round game is miles behind some others.
We have to remember that this guy came from non league footie and was not caoched from a young age like some of our players. it is players like this where the coaches earn their cash imo.
he cant be that bad if leeds want him also gary mac obviously sees something in him.
is it a footballer we want or a goal scorer, is there a difference i dont know
i just wish we could see for ourselves because before waghorn and gray on monday we havent had a strike partnership. We never had one striker last year that you thought if he gets a chance he will score.
i dont know any more about dicko the player than the rest of you all i know is that he wants a chance
Us supporters would have loved a local hero.
Really? He only signed an extension to 2010 last summer.
Still feel with McLeod even though he's not had a proper run, he isn't good enough. Only time he looked decent was when he played with Varney, and even then his finishing was poor.
Dickson should have at least had a few starts by now.
It's all about opinions mate, and you might well be right in that at this level he isn't up to scratch. I simply don't think that he has had the chances to show either way. to me, a decent run has to be 8-10 games.
I can accept that he might not be championship level, what really winds me up is people making comments like "he's a clown" or has "no footballing brain" when his record for scoring goals, all be it at a lower level, would suggest otherwise.
I do agree with you about Dickson.
Saying he has no football brain is different, no ones saying he literally can't play football, but compared to our own strikers, and other strikers at this level, he hasn't looked good enough.
I know what you mean about a proper run, neither have had one. I'm just saying from what I've seen of McLeod he doesn't look good enough, and I wouldn't like to give him a run at the moment when we have better options.
A natural goalscorer is not something you come across every day in football. Can't believe we're letting one go because he can't hold the ball up.
I don't know this for a fact as it is before my time but I've been told that Killer Hales (Charlton Legend) did little else but score goals and he is a club hero.
With the defence we have at the moment we need as many goals as possible as to be sure of a win we need to score 6.
Dicko dose have a real love for this club, people saw the way he celebrated our goals at Plymouth, and having met him he has always told me how he will always love Charlton for signing him even though he has never been given a fair crack of the whip.
This is one of our problems the management puts faith in strikers who can't score and are not predators in front of goal.
The aim of the game our team is currently failing at is to sore more goal then the other team.
Fair enough I just get frustrated watching him, and end up giving my opinion when people say he hasn't had a run yet and might good enough.
As for Dickson that's why I'd like him to get a chance, or at least be on the bench. Plenty of times when we need someone who just goes out to score goals and nothing else.
Gorman was dynamite for Welling United, until he broke his leg against Merthyr Tydfil.... them were the days following Welling United around :0)
I
Fair point re. lack of starts - being a bench warmer doesn't do him any favours, but it just seemed to me that he was only brought to the club purely as a back-up striker and not as someone who was to compete for a regular front slot. I think though that dickson could become a decent goalscorer in the lower leagues (1 or 2), but no more than that. That's why I don't think he's our solution, but maybe next season in league 1........
And if Pardew had bought him from the Gills, he would have paid between £1.1m and £2m plus add-ons and would be his main man! Then we'd be hoping to get a 'large chunk' of the fee back when it didn't work out:-)
Agree with that and it is also easy to forget that whilst Killer didn't run around that much he could hold the ball up with his back to goal ala Gerd Muller too which offered our often porous defence and midfield an outlet.
Chris scored yet again last night for the Reserves albeit against Lewes in a 6-1 win. There again, he could have netted all 6 against Chelsea and it would appear that some would still say he would never be good enough.
A couple of weeks ago Ian Wright was on the Sunday morning Sky chat prog and said that the hardest thing for him to get used to was the expectation at Leagur level not to give the ball away cheaply. All I can say is that it's a good job for him and Arsenal in particular that Steve Coppell didn't treat him the same way as we have Chris.
Finally,I had to chuckle at Parky's comment "Chris is frustrated to be out of the first team at the moment and wants to move on." He's never been IN the first team Parky in case you hadn't noticed!!!