Sorry guys I don't have time to read through 346 comments and find out wants going on. : (
So can some one summarise the events of the thread so far and tell me has airman (Rick) been sacked? If he has then its a huge loss to the club and he will be missed.
Rick has gone not sure whether he walked or was pushed.
The rest of it is mainly typical Charlton Life bickering and point scoring, sadly, as to how important (or not) Rick's contribution was compared to other people.
Airman has been sacked. There is a pattern developing. What happens about initiatives and attendances. Who is in charge/what is Mr Protheroes role. The next and major supporters Trust meeting is looming. Internet forums are to blame/are not as influential as you think they are.
Question: how would people feel if it turned out that it was Richard Murray who fired the gun at RE?
See this for me is a great question as I believe that if this was to be the case I think RM would have been very uncomfortable with the situation but would have proberly been in a no win situation
Richard Murray is a shareholder not an employee. He's not answerable to Jimenez, Slater or the Mysterons. He may not have agreed with the decision to get shot of Rick or even been party to it. What's becoming increasingly clear is that Jimenez and Slater need a buyer to get themselves out of trouble. They won't want to be selling a relegation threatened club or one that's in Administration. The Mysterons may just have to bankroll the club until it's sold. In the meantime, if Laurel and Hardy screw up the running of the club, like they appear to doing, it could cost the Mysterons a lot more than they bargained for.
The main shareholder makes the decisions & that man is Jimenez. Just like when Chapple was the main shareholder he also took the main decisions, rather than Murray.
Airman has been sacked. There is a pattern developing. What happens about initiatives and attendances. Who is in charge/what is Mr Protheroes role. The next and major supporters Trust meeting is looming. Internet forums are to blame/are not as influential as you think they are.
I asked awhile back about Peter Varney being removed from the board weeks before he was scheduled to go. No one seemed to know why then, and we don't see to know much more now. Then Kavanaugh was given the boot. The Chief Executive disappeared without a trace, almost into thin air. Now, if we are to believe the rumours - and I do believe Seth Plum - that Rick Everitt will be next to exit SE7. So yes, I think a pattern is developing here.
Some people don't want to believe that there is something seriously wrong with what is going on behind the scenes. Some people can't see the forest for the trees.
Do we know who really owns the club, and what their true intentions are? What does this mean for the short, and long term interests of the club? Why so secret?
Something is rotten in the state of Charlton. If you can't smell it, you're not breathing in.
I asked awhile back about Peter Varney being removed from the board weeks before he was scheduled to go. No one seemed to know why then, and we don't see to know much more now. Then Kavanaugh was given the boot. The Chief Executive disappeared without a trace, almost into thin air. Now, if we are to believe the rumours - and I do believe Seth Plum - that Rick Everitt will be next to exit SE7. So yes, I think a pattern is developing here.
Some people don't want to believe that there is something seriously wrong with what is going on behind the scenes. Some people can't see the forest for the trees.
Do we know who really owns the club, and what their true intentions are? What does this mean for the short, and long term interests of the club? Why so secret?
Something is rotten in the state of Charlton. If you can't smell it, you're not breathing in.
I agree with all of this apart from your continued assertion that PV being "removed from the board early" is unusual in business... It's not and is a red herring as has been discussed on here before. There's plenty of very worrying things going on at Charlton but that's not one of them.
It's very disappointing that the current owners of the Club seemingly don't have the gumption (even having had PV initially to guide them) to realise that not only was Charlton a stronger Club on and off the field by virtue of the strong (arguably unique) bond between Club and supporters but it would likely be a more valuable asset for their purposes if they were to nurture that bond.
Rick took every reasonable and pertinent opportunity to offer some insight into the goings on within the Club. Yet he has chosen not to comment on a thread devoted entirely to himself which would suggest that his "departure" is not something that he is able to comment upon - be it due to unfair dismissal proceedings or as a binding agreement in relation to any severance pay.
Knowing what I do about Rick (perhaps not as much as some on here) I would suggest it more likely to be the former reason.
Why does knowing him make one scenario more likely than another? Surely they are absolutes, either he's not commenting because it's the subject of investigation or because he's unable to due to binding agreement.
I'd suggest that, if the suggestion that his departure will be effective at some future point is correct, then the latter is more likely. We're all just guessing again. Whatever, when he does decide to post again I hope that he's not badgered for answers.
It's very disappointing that the current owners of the Club seemingly don't have the gumption (even having had PV initially to guide them) to realise that not only was Charlton a stronger Club on and off the field by virtue of the strong (arguably unique) bond between Club and supporters but it would likely be a more valuable asset for their purposes if they were to nurture that bond.
Totally agree but that bond has long been broken. The owners did a remarkable job last season and to the casual observer things are still progressing nicely. Scratch the surface and as American Addick says the stench gets out. Three key and honourable servants of the club have left in a puff of smoke which is nothing less than alarming. Here's a conspiracy theory for you. Do the owners want those honourable three out of the way before something very nasty gets out and those three given their close association with Charlton Athletic might be inclined to whistle blow ? Just the musings of a despondent Addick. Im certainly not in the know.
It's very disappointing that the current owners of the Club seemingly don't have the gumption (even having had PV initially to guide them) to realise that not only was Charlton a stronger Club on and off the field by virtue of the strong (arguably unique) bond between Club and supporters but it would likely be a more valuable asset for their purposes if they were to nurture that bond.
This is precisely what bemuses me. I am not a business person and have tended to defer to those who told me that we are dealing with astute businessmen who know what they're doing. But the evidence, albeit scanty, appears to point the other way. I now conclude that they really do not seem to know what they're doing. In fact, they appear to be determined to lose themselves even more money. They need Rick very badly and the supporters want to keep Rick. Isn't this one of those dreaded 'win win' situations? What on earth are they waiting for?
Richard Murray is a shareholder not an employee. He's not answerable to Jimenez, Slater or the Mysterons. He may not have agreed with the decision to get shot of Rick or even been party to it. What's becoming increasingly clear is that Jimenez and Slater need a buyer to get themselves out of trouble. They won't want to be selling a relegation threatened club or one that's in Administration. The Mysterons may just have to bankroll the club until it's sold. In the meantime, if Laurel and Hardy screw up the running of the club, like they appear to doing, it could cost the Mysterons a lot more than they bargained for.
Having read all this and the previous SK thread I still fail to understand where the conviction that the new owners have 'screwed up' the running of the club comes from? The only FACTS we seem to have are that they brought in a manger who got us promoted, strengthened the academy, put together a squad that would get promotion and provide a core for the following season; and "sack" two of the senior management team (the manner of leaving is still debatable but I shall go with the popular conception). Oh and "probably" suffered a cash flow crisis in July - the same as most other football clubs, and certainly the same as CAFC in prevous seasons.
Can someone point out what other FACTS I have missed?
And can someone also point out which of these things hasn't happened in previous seasons? As far as I can tell, the only negatives (the laying off of staff) has indeed happened very recently, so why are they the devils?
Richard Murray is a shareholder not an employee. He's not answerable to Jimenez, Slater or the Mysterons. He may not have agreed with the decision to get shot of Rick or even been party to it. What's becoming increasingly clear is that Jimenez and Slater need a buyer to get themselves out of trouble. They won't want to be selling a relegation threatened club or one that's in Administration. The Mysterons may just have to bankroll the club until it's sold. In the meantime, if Laurel and Hardy screw up the running of the club, like they appear to doing, it could cost the Mysterons a lot more than they bargained for.
Without a sale though they might need to make a decision whether it's better simply to cut the losses and run. That would leave us in a very precarious position to say the least.
Oh and "probably" suffered a cash flow crisis in July - the same as most other football clubs, and certainly the same as CAFC in prevous seasons.
Can someone point out what other FACTS I have missed?
And can someone also point out which of these things hasn't happened in previous seasons? As far as I can tell, the only negatives (the laying off of staff) has indeed happened very recently, so why are they the devils?
Certainly. Last season there was a clearly executed plan to develop the squad for the clear goal, promotion from Div 3. The execution of that plan started in May, and was largely in place by the time of the Welling friendly. And there was no rumour whatsoever of discontent or dysfunction in the back office on these forums. Patently there wasn't a cash flow crisis last summer. Patently too, experienced managers like Varney and Kavanagh were well capable of preparing cashflow forecasts for this close season related to our new league status and all the costs that go with them.
One of the first lessons I learned when on a management training course was about the challenges that occur when there is not effective communication between stakeholders in a business.
Football Clubs are more than just an ordinary business because brand loyalty goes way beyond the norm. Indeed fans believe that they are the custodians of the club.
In a normal commercial environment it is very hard to silence internal problems. Of course many organisations do by contractual means but if something is rotten, it will almost certainly come out. I seem to recall a case involving MacDonald's over a whistle-blower a while back which in the end they lost and it had a negative impact upon their business and the perception of their customer stakeholders.
Anybody buying a football should know that effective communication with the main customer stakeholders is essential for managing expectations. Excessive secrecy or poor communication, especially if there are problems which leak out, will only lead to puzzled questioning and, especially if the majority of fans believe that things on the pitch are not going well, the questioning will lead to revolt.
That seems to me to be where we are heading.
There is a part of me that is uneasy about being too anti the current regime because it is possible that they are trying to find a buyer/investor who might be say, a group of super-rich investors that might be frightened off by disharmony.
On the other hand if the current owners know that there is disquiet amongst the fans at the way they are running the club, then it may help them to sell at a price somebody is willing to pay.
On balance I think we should continue to express our concern on here. The owners will no doubt be aware of this forum and will need to include these concerns in their risk calculus.
When Prothero arrived he was employed for a reason. The press announcement stated "The intention now is to allow incoming executive vice-chairman Martin Prothero time to analyse the management structure at the club before making recommendations as to the executive and senior management team going forward." Perhaps Rick is a casualty of this analysis? Whilst I fully understand Rick's love and commitment to the club and the history he has with fans and fan initiatives, is it just possible that the new mob are looking to get someone who will take the club further forward, or does everyone think he is the only person capable of this job? We were on skid row before the newbies arrived and there is no room for sentiment in business (probably why I'm not a business man!).
The problem is we no longer have someone on the inside and this seems to irk people on here. Secret organisations are not usually a good thing but people on here seem to think that our owners are akin to the Illuminati rather than people trying to make money by running a football team. We seem to love conspiracy theories even ones we make up ourselves.
BTW Rick, If you are leaving good luck I hope you find further employment soon.
Oh and "probably" suffered a cash flow crisis in July - the same as most other football clubs, and certainly the same as CAFC in prevous seasons.
Can someone point out what other FACTS I have missed?
And can someone also point out which of these things hasn't happened in previous seasons? As far as I can tell, the only negatives (the laying off of staff) has indeed happened very recently, so why are they the devils?
Certainly. Last season there was a clearly executed plan to develop the squad for the clear goal, promotion from Div 3. The execution of that plan started in May, and was largely in place by the time of the Welling friendly. And there was no rumour whatsoever of discontent or dysfunction in the back office on these forums. Patently there wasn't a cash flow crisis last summer. Patently too, experienced managers like Varney and Kavanagh were well capable of preparing cashflow forecasts for this close season related to our new league status and all the costs that go with them.
Sorry but none of this is fact, unless you can point me to something I've missed. How do you know there was no cash flow problem last year, how do you know there is no plan this year? The club has certainly been having money problems for a number of years, this can been seen from the accounts, but they wont highlight monthly cash flow issues. The fact that the board hasn't seen fit to share their plans does not make it fact that there is not one.
The lack of information from the board may be perceived as a problem in itself but no news is not clearly terrible news. We are trying to stir up a fight against an enemy which we even know exists. When there is a fight I will be there at the front, until then I will not damn the board to hell. We did not know of the last crisis until it occured but we all rose to the challenge when it did.
It seems to me from yours and other's comments that the only thing that is different this year to last is the number of rumours. And that is not the board fault or problem.
And Bing, you are right football loyalty is different from other brand loyalty. Because of choice. Any football club owner knows it customers are highly unlikely to choose a competitor, unlike almost any other business. So loyalty in football works to the benefit of owners, not their detriment, when it comes to making unpopular decisions. For confirmation of this look at the complaints made by Cardiff fans about their strip, and look at how many stil attend matches and buy shirts, the club will hardly notice the handlful of fans who gave up their season ticket in protest.
@RalphMilnesgut "or does everyone think he is the only person capable of this job?"
As I mentioned earlier, management recruitment is my game nowadays and I'd be the first to concede that no-one is irreplaceable. However most companies find that it can be far more difficult to replace somebody than they supposed.
There are two reasons why Rick will be ENORMOUSLY difficult to replace in the role:
1. Over a period of 20 years he has built up an enormous understanding of the Charlton customer. It is largely lodged in his head, because Charlton is not a big enough business to formalise it through market research and documentation. You do not replace that in six months, no matter how able the person.
2. Rick them implements his understanding in practical marketing acitivities. Because for him it is a labour of love, he will implement them with passion and energy way beyond anything that it is reasonable to expect from someone for whom its just a job.
Now, against that, he can be a somewhat un-corporate person, which means he can annoy people to whom he reports from time to time. But this is hardly an unusual dilemma for management. Take advertising agencies. Some creative people are complete and utter nutters. Stories abound of their outrageous behaviour, and some of them you can't risk having in the same city, let alone the same meeting room as their clients. But that is tolerated and managed because they are, at their best, geniuses, the one and only source of the reason why clients pay their agencies what they do. Come to think of it, much the same is true of the footballers. Paulo di Canio, anyone?
This, the example of Rick, as I keep saying, is the management dilemma which Richard Murray managed superbly over so many years with outstanding results for the club which far outweighed some occasionally abrasive moments.
Sorry my quoting didn't work well. This is my comment to DRF
What? How about 3 key managers leaving for a start. I would suggest this is different from last year. I believe that this might be considered a fact.
Sorry I should have said different this year to other years. What about the year when Steve Sutherland was binned? Many predicted doom after that but CAFC rode the storm and Steve is still strongly connected to the club as I suspect Rick will be.
Prague - all fair points none of which I disagree with. Rick's passion and energy are without doubt. My point is that someone else may come in with experience of building income (maybe even fanbase?) and take Rick's work forward. So like in most businesses, professionalism, experience and yes energy counters passion. I cannot believe that the new owners are not looking at how to increase cash flow and if they considered the current team to be in tune with them then like your 'creative people' example, they would keep them and work with them. The situation just happens to be we don't know what that tune is.
I've largely kept out of this but would simply say that both Rick and Prague Addick have been there and got the tee shirt when it comes to helping dig Charlton out of a hole.
Some people on this thread would be better off shutting up and listening to Prague in particular rather than seeking to score cheap semantic points and the like.
Comments
See this for me is a great question as I believe that if this was to be the case I think RM would have been very uncomfortable with the situation but would have proberly been in a no win situation
And i would have thought it highly probable that at some stage RM would have had to have had an input on this decision
No one seemed to know why then, and we don't see to know much more now.
Then Kavanaugh was given the boot. The Chief Executive disappeared without a trace, almost into thin air.
Now, if we are to believe the rumours - and I do believe Seth Plum - that Rick Everitt will be next to exit SE7.
So yes, I think a pattern is developing here.
Some people don't want to believe that there is something seriously wrong with what is going on behind the scenes.
Some people can't see the forest for the trees.
Do we know who really owns the club, and what their true intentions are? What does this mean for the short, and long term interests of the club?
Why so secret?
Something is rotten in the state of Charlton. If you can't smell it, you're not breathing in.
I'd suggest that, if the suggestion that his departure will be effective at some future point is correct, then the latter is more likely. We're all just guessing again. Whatever, when he does decide to post again I hope that he's not badgered for answers.
The only FACTS we seem to have are that they brought in a manger who got us promoted, strengthened the academy, put together a squad that would get promotion and provide a core for the following season; and "sack" two of the senior management team (the manner of leaving is still debatable but I shall go with the popular conception). Oh and "probably" suffered a cash flow crisis in July - the same as most other football clubs, and certainly the same as CAFC in prevous seasons.
Can someone point out what other FACTS I have missed?
And can someone also point out which of these things hasn't happened in previous seasons? As far as I can tell, the only negatives (the laying off of staff) has indeed happened very recently, so why are they the devils?
Football Clubs are more than just an ordinary business because brand loyalty goes way beyond the norm. Indeed fans believe that they are the custodians of the club.
In a normal commercial environment it is very hard to silence internal problems. Of course many organisations do by contractual means but if something is rotten, it will almost certainly come out. I seem to recall a case involving MacDonald's over a whistle-blower a while back which in the end they lost and it had a negative impact upon their business and the perception of their customer stakeholders.
Anybody buying a football should know that effective communication with the main customer stakeholders is essential for managing expectations. Excessive secrecy or poor communication, especially if there are problems which leak out, will only lead to puzzled questioning and, especially if the majority of fans believe that things on the pitch are not going well, the questioning will lead to revolt.
That seems to me to be where we are heading.
There is a part of me that is uneasy about being too anti the current regime because it is possible that they are trying to find a buyer/investor who might be say, a group of super-rich investors that might be frightened off by disharmony.
On the other hand if the current owners know that there is disquiet amongst the fans at the way they are running the club, then it may help them to sell at a price somebody is willing to pay.
On balance I think we should continue to express our concern on here. The owners will no doubt be aware of this forum and will need to include these concerns in their risk calculus.
The problem is we no longer have someone on the inside and this seems to irk people on here. Secret organisations are not usually a good thing but people on here seem to think that our owners are akin to the Illuminati rather than people trying to make money by running a football team. We seem to love conspiracy theories even ones we make up ourselves.
BTW Rick, If you are leaving good luck I hope you find further employment soon.
What? How about 3 key managers leaving for a start. I would suggest this is different from last year. I believe that this might be considered a fact.
"or does everyone think he is the only person capable of this job?"
As I mentioned earlier, management recruitment is my game nowadays and I'd be the first to concede that no-one is irreplaceable. However most companies find that it can be far more difficult to replace somebody than they supposed.
There are two reasons why Rick will be ENORMOUSLY difficult to replace in the role:
1. Over a period of 20 years he has built up an enormous understanding of the Charlton customer. It is largely lodged in his head, because Charlton is not a big enough business to formalise it through market research and documentation. You do not replace that in six months, no matter how able the person.
2. Rick them implements his understanding in practical marketing acitivities. Because for him it is a labour of love, he will implement them with passion and energy way beyond anything that it is reasonable to expect from someone for whom its just a job.
Now, against that, he can be a somewhat un-corporate person, which means he can annoy people to whom he reports from time to time. But this is hardly an unusual dilemma for management. Take advertising agencies. Some creative people are complete and utter nutters. Stories abound of their outrageous behaviour, and some of them you can't risk having in the same city, let alone the same meeting room as their clients. But that is tolerated and managed because they are, at their best, geniuses, the one and only source of the reason why clients pay their agencies what they do. Come to think of it, much the same is true of the footballers. Paulo di Canio, anyone?
This, the example of Rick, as I keep saying, is the management dilemma which Richard Murray managed superbly over so many years with outstanding results for the club which far outweighed some occasionally abrasive moments.
Our board simply do not understand Cafc.
Some people on this thread would be better off shutting up and listening to Prague in particular rather than seeking to score cheap semantic points and the like.
They might actually learn something.
Carry on.
This is not a CAFC problem, its a football problem