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Varney, Kavanagh, and Everitt! (Page 13: Note from Rick Everitt)

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  • Exiled has nailed it for me and if that's fingers in ears and blinkers on so be it but the over dramatising on here often does my head in and a touch of reality with the football and financial world wouldn't go amiss from time to time.
  • Fanny, Henry, any of you supporters bods type,

    Have Slater or Protheroe (i won't even bother asking about TJ) been invited as guests to any of your supporters club meetings for this season ?

  • Yes.

    Both MP and MS were invited together to Bromley for November. This replicates the MS and SK meeting we had last season.

    MP very politely declined siting his newness to the role but suggesting that he might attend at some future date.

    We have yet to hear anything back from MS.
  • yeah i've heard MS and TJ have problems responding to emails in regards to Charlton matters(not supporters groups) as well

    still must be busy elsewhere
  • could it all be cost cutting 3 salaries gone?
  • I know this may be hard for some of you on here to believe, but Charlton Life isn't the centre of the universe as far as Charlton Athletic Football Club is concerned so maybe, just maybe, it has nothing to do with anything posted on here.

    Odds are it is far more likely something that has happened during the day to day running of the club. It doesn't appear to be a perceived misconduct offense otherwise he'd be out of the building already and not serving a period of notice. It seems to me he's more being 'let go' than sacked. That may not change the long term implications of him leaving his post but there are a few slightly hysterical posts doing the rounds, again, off the back of this idea he's been unceremoniously fired.

    The board have said there is a planned restructuring underway and Prothero would be advising on it. This could just be another part of that and we'll have to wait and see who fills some of these empty seats before we can draw too many conclusions on the wisdom of the dismissals. It seems to be being taken as proven fact by some that this is all part of some evil master plan but as far as I can tell there is nothing more than gut feeling driving this idea that something sinister is afoot because, as yet, there is basically zero evidence the board aren't trying to run the club properly. Good club men as these three all were, none of them are irreplacable from a professional perspective even if the new guys aren't CAFC fans. As others have said there were plenty of downs to go with the ups during the previous regimes reign. That's not to say these guys won't be losses to the organization, and I have respect and thanks for all their hard work, but people move on from businesses all the time and the businesses go on just fine without them.

    By all means ask pertinent questions of any accessible people in high places to assure yourselves things are okay but try and keep it perspective. Talk of Powell being next and giving in supporting the club all seems a but premature and melodramatic as does the portrayal of the current owners as some tyrannical regime intent on bleeding the club dry before disappearing into the sunset leaving a burning wreck of a stadium behind them.

    Okay we didn't spend millions in the summer, but was that ever promised? The youth system has continued to be expanded, bids for players have been turned down, the Valley has been tarted up a bit and signings have still been made. Apart from moving on a few well liked club employees,. I don't see anything in the current boards CV that suggests they're not trying to run the club properly, and that includes not spending money we don't have on players, whatever the reason for the current budget is.

    Spot on.

    I do think that speculation raised on here hasn't helped. Airman was always liable to comment on such a thing and a senior member of staff commenting in a public forum outside of the business' PR and communications set-up is never going to be seen as appropriate, however we might crave information. This is a public forum and we're operating in an information business, such statements might affect the confidence of potential investors or make players or staff think about moving on, or discourage targets from joining.

    As X says, people move on. During the Parky years a number of long-serving staff were let go, without so much furore.

    Talk of sackings or trumped up misconduct charges are incorrect. If you bin someone they don't get back to their desk and email system. This looks far more like a severance, and I'd expect it to be backed by a club standard compromise agreement, so don't expect any comment from Airman on the subject, if that is the case.
  • I can't believe there has been another 70 posts since I last looked at this on CL. Where are the new facts to justify this? What do we actually know?

    Maybe Rick hasn't been sacked - I know that he has moved house quite a distance from the Valley - perhaps he's actually okay about not having that daily commute and maybe he has other avenues to pursue?
  • Saga Lout said:

    I can't believe there has been another 70 posts since I last looked at this on CL. Where are the new facts to justify this? What do we actually know?

    Maybe Rick hasn't been sacked - I know that he has moved house quite a distance from the Valley - perhaps he's actually okay about not having that daily commute and maybe he has other avenues to pursue?

    Do you have the lottery numbers from Saturday?
  • What does that mean Falconwood? I can get you the numbers from last Saturday, but surely you can look them up yourself?
  • Speculation Morti, speculation Saga.

    Sorry but you can't complain about others speculating and then create your own.

    Fact is, melodramtic as Seth's posts can sometimes be, he was attacked for saying Kav was gone and was subsequently proved correct.

    Now he is saying Rick is going. Other people tell me he is correct.

    Anything other than unfair dismissal could quite happily be mentioned on the OS or by Rick on here. If he is leaving for his own reasons then why isn't he or the club saying so.

    If he has been offered and taken severance then why not say so? The compromise agreement would cover what could and couldn't be said.

    But remember gross misconduct is cheaper than severance. In the short term at least.
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  • Charlton Life isn't the centre of the universe, spot on but also so what it doesn't have to be does it?

    It is the most popular CAFC forum by a very large margin

    It is populated by many people who have access to information and this has been demonstrated time and time again

    These are facts I know to be true

    The lack of official information is deafening, so this is pretty much the only source for information.

    We should also make the distinction between rumour (based on made up nothing) and rumour that so far has no official acknowledgement.

    I personally am grateful for those who provide this, of course there are different points of view and discussion, so let's try and keep this friendly, and an open mind but not one that is blinkered to very credible sources on here.

    We have a common interest here, and that is the future of our Club. When someone as big as RE is booted, there are rightly going to be concerns in the context of the last two departures. Our club is changing and the lack of communication around that makes many quite reasonably worry what direction we are headed.



    R
  • Saga Lout said:

    I can't believe there has been another 70 posts since I last looked at this on CL. Where are the new facts to justify this? What do we actually know?

    Maybe Rick hasn't been sacked - I know that he has moved house quite a distance from the Valley - perhaps he's actually okay about not having that daily commute and maybe he has other avenues to pursue?

    if Rick were leaving of his own accord then I'm sure he would have been on here by now and therefore have stopped all the speculation in it's tracks. That he hasn't speaks volumes.

  • Saga Lout said:

    I can't believe there has been another 70 posts since I last looked at this on CL. Where are the new facts to justify this? What do we actually know?

    Maybe Rick hasn't been sacked - I know that he has moved house quite a distance from the Valley - perhaps he's actually okay about not having that daily commute and maybe he has other avenues to pursue?

    It was announced at half time during Friday's game that one of the Sparrows Lane ground staff was retiring after many years of service to the club. Message was along the lines of "Thanks for your hard work, enjoy your retirement."

    I believe Rick Everitt has been on the club's payroll since the mid-90s, and obviously prior to that played a very prominent role in the campaign to get the club back to The Valley, as well as being The Mercury's Charlton correspondent. It's therefore reasonable to expect that if he hasn't been sacked he to will, as an absolute minimum, receive some form of acknowledgement for his services to the club, be it a note on the website, a mention in the next matchday programme or an announcement on the PA at the next game.

    Unfortunately I expect it to be swept under the carpet in the same way that Varney and Kavanagh's departures were, with supporters being provided with the bare minimum of information, if any at all.
  • I am a bit confused as to why people are still saying he might have left on his own accord etc. The OP said his contact in the board room had told him Airman had been sacked and AFKA stated Saturday morning that this rumour had been confirmed as true.

    ??????
  • Airmans comment on the away ticket sales tread dated 30th August regarding the Ipswich game. Did he know something then?

    Stewart said:

    So your not going to the game then Airman?

    Airman
    Not this one. Expect they'll manage without me!
  • I am prepared to put my money where my mouth is, Airman has been sacked and (melodramatic Henry?) £100 says so.
  • edited September 2012

    I know this may be hard for some of you on here to believe, but Charlton Life isn't the centre of the universe as far as Charlton Athletic Football Club is concerned so maybe, just maybe, it has nothing to do with anything posted on here.

    Odds are it is far more likely something that has happened during the day to day running of the club. It doesn't appear to be a perceived misconduct offense otherwise he'd be out of the building already and not serving a period of notice. It seems to me he's more being 'let go' than sacked. That may not change the long term implications of him leaving his post but there are a few slightly hysterical posts doing the rounds, again, off the back of this idea he's been unceremoniously fired.

    The board have said there is a planned restructuring underway and Prothero would be advising on it. This could just be another part of that and we'll have to wait and see who fills some of these empty seats before we can draw too many conclusions on the wisdom of the dismissals. It seems to be being taken as proven fact by some that this is all part of some evil master plan but as far as I can tell there is nothing more than gut feeling driving this idea that something sinister is afoot because, as yet, there is basically zero evidence the board aren't trying to run the club properly. Good club men as these three all were, none of them are irreplacable from a professional perspective even if the new guys aren't CAFC fans. As others have said there were plenty of downs to go with the ups during the previous regimes reign. That's not to say these guys won't be losses to the organization, and I have respect and thanks for all their hard work, but people move on from businesses all the time and the businesses go on just fine without them.

    By all means ask pertinent questions of any accessible people in high places to assure yourselves things are okay but try and keep it perspective. Talk of Powell being next and giving in supporting the club all seems a but premature and melodramatic as does the portrayal of the current owners as some tyrannical regime intent on bleeding the club dry before disappearing into the sunset leaving a burning wreck of a stadium behind them.

    Okay we didn't spend millions in the summer, but was that ever promised? The youth system has continued to be expanded, bids for players have been turned down, the Valley has been tarted up a bit and signings have still been made. Apart from moving on a few well liked club employees,. I don't see anything in the current boards CV that suggests they're not trying to run the club properly, and that includes not spending money we don't have on players, whatever the reason for the current budget is.

    Will your opinion change if it is indeed true that Airman has been 'unceremoniously fired'? Maybe some of the subsequent postings would seem less hysterical if it turns out to be true....as I am convinced it is.
    Charlton Life isn't the centre of the universe...but like antibiotics what else do we have?
    If there is a re-structure you would expect Mr Protheroe to get in somebody BETTER to improve attendances, do you hope that will happen? I hope so but don't believe it will. If everything is working in a controlled manner then why now for this latest event, why weren't all three posts sorted in the summer.
    What exactly is Mr Protheroe doing day to day in 'running the club properly' as you put it, I am very curious to know if you or anybody else has the answer?

  • edited September 2012
    This post is going to be about the club as a business (so some may not be interested).

    First of all the business of a club Charlton's size, and of most of the smaller FAPL clubs is not at all complex or difficult to understand. It gets revenue, from the gate receipts, from TV, from major sponsorships, and various smaller commercial activities. It has costs which are largely transfer fees and salaries, and those related to the ground, plus externals such as policing. If the costs exceed the revenues, like any other business, the money has to be found from somewhere, and frequently this is covered by outgoing transfer fees, or directly by owners. The main problem in English football is that costs of players have been allowed to spiral out of control. Its also worth mentioning that individual clubs are not big businesses either. A club Charlton's size falls firmly in the SME bracket, and is smaller than for example the London advertising agency where I worked during the VP time.

    The reason I keep talking about it being a "people business" is that people are the main assets. Principally the players, and their output is unpredictable. It is also a consumer business, albeit with an unusually close relationship with a specific group of customers. The role of the people behind the scenes is often forgotten but they play a key role in creating the overall 'experience'. They can make you feel that for all that we lost at home to effing Palace, the club is run by people like you,who come from the same place as you, people who are glad you attend and are in it with you. It is perfectly possible that this effect could have a lot to do with our higher gates than those of Palace or Millwall.

    Now lets talk about the profile of people in a business like this. I'd like to mention that since I withdrew from the front line of advertising in 1994 (it being no place for old men) my main work is helping to build the teams of such agencies and of their client's so I have learnt a great deal about hiring and firing and have worked with many restructures and observed many more. Here are some things I've learnt which are pertinent to CAFC, not just now, but generally.

    1. "Businessmen" are not universally successful at any business. Either at the top or in senior management. So for example Unilever will consider a CEO from somewhere like Heineken because they are both FMCG businesses. But you never see them hiring from somewhere like Thames Water. Richard Murray's main business, Avesco, is a people business. He once described it to me as a 'giant roadie business'. A property developer is not experienced in a people business. However that doesn't mean a property developer can't run a people business. But he must recruit lieutenants who are that way experienced, and then allow them to get on with the job.

    2. It is quite easy to decide to get rid of a senior manager. It is much much harder to identify and hire someone better. If you don't plan it carefully, you end up with empty chairs, panic, and hire someone worse.

    Now to this "strategic restructuring". It's interesting that those of you who buy that this is going on for good reason, are also buying that messrs Varney Kavanagh and possibly Everitt have left because the new board don't want them, and think they can bring in better people. Well I deal with this kind of thing all the time, and earn money from it. The thing is that this usually happens when the business is doing badly and some people have been identified as under-performing. Now, a few people have pointed out that things went conspicuously badly after 2006. But what happened in the last twelve months? Conspicuous, almost unbeatable success on the pitch, and as far as I can see pretty faultless off the pitch too, at least in the customer-facing areas. In the businesses I work with, the response would be promotion, bonuses and back-slapping all round. Definitely not removing the key people who have spearheaded the off the pitch success. And definitely, definitely not seeing them leave without already having the replacements ready to come in, ideally with a handover period.

    And that, from a business perspective is why I am concerned about what seems to be happening, and this despite to some extent being exposed to the "not as bad as it looks" viewpoint.
  • seth plum said:


    Charlton Life isn't the centre of the universe...but like antibiotics what else do we have?

    Note to admin: - can we have this as the slogan at the top of the CL masthead? Much better than the current ''Live by the sword'' !!!

  • seth plum said:


    Charlton Life isn't the centre of the universe...but like antibiotics what else do we have?

    Note to admin: - can we have this as the slogan at the top of the CL masthead? Much better than the current ''Live by the sword'' !!!


    Lol, Or to open it up more... 'Charlton Life, better than having the clap'
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  • seth plum said:


    Charlton Life isn't the centre of the universe...but like antibiotics what else do we have?

    Note to admin: - can we have this as the slogan at the top of the CL masthead? Much better than the current ''Live by the sword'' !!!

    A great line,....... but there are a host of Supporter groups, websites, bloggers, and if I can mention the Supporters Trust, as well as Charlton live, and other sources... All run in my experience by people who care as much as some of the posters even on this great site. And this is a great site for Addicks that have kept me informed and in touch with fellow fans and the Charlton community, in this country , and abroad. Be interesting to see how the club supports the new Eltham supporters group being formed, I would have thought that the club should be bending over backwards to help this and any other supporters groups to communicate with there fans.
    *I have to declare an interest as I am a member of the trust ( interim) so my view is somewhat biased.
  • Greenie said:




    'Charlton Life, better than having the clap'

    Only those who've ever had it can truly be in a position to judge!

  • This post is going to be about the club as a business (so some may not be interested).

    First of all the business of a club Charlton's size, and of most of the smaller FAPL clubs is not at all complex or difficult to understand. It gets revenue, from the gate receipts, from TV, from major sponsorships, and various smaller commercial activities. It has costs which are largely transfer fees and salaries, and those related to the ground, plus externals such as policing. If the costs exceed the revenues, like any other business, the money has to be found from somewhere, and frequently this is covered by outgoing transfer fees, or directly by owners. The main problem in English football is that costs of players have been allowed to spiral out of control. Its also worth mentioning that individual clubs are not big businesses either. A club Charlton's size falls firmly in the SME bracket, and is smaller than for example the London advertising agency where I worked during the VP time.

    The reason I keep talking about it being a "people business" is that people are the main assets. Principally the players, and their output is unpredictable. It is also a consumer business, albeit with an unusually close relationship with a specific group of customers. The role of the people behind the scenes is often forgotten but they play a key role in creating the overall 'experience'. They can make you feel that for all that we lost at home to effing Palace, the club is run by people like you,who come from the same place as you, people who are glad you attend and are in it with you. It is perfectly possible that this effect could have a lot to do with our higher gates than those of Palace or Millwall.

    Now lets talk about the profile of people in a business like this. I'd like to mention that since I withdrew from the front line of advertising in 1994 (it being no place for old men) my main work is helping to build the teams of such agencies and of their client's so I have learnt a great deal about hiring and firing and have worked with many restructures and observed many more. Here are some things I've learnt which are pertinent to CAFC, not just now, but generally.

    1. "Businessmen" are not universally successful at any business. Either at the top or in senior management. So for example Unilever will consider a CEO from somewhere like Heineken because they are both FMCG businesses. But you never see them hiring from somewhere like Thames Water. Richard Murray's main business, Avesco, is a people business. He once described it to me as a 'giant roadie business'. A property developer is not experienced in a people business. However that doesn't mean a property developer can't run a people business. But he must recruit lieutenants who are that way experienced, and then allow them to get on with the job.

    2. It is quite easy to decide to get rid of a senior manager. It is much much harder to identify and hire someone better. If you don't plan it carefully, you end up with empty chairs, panic, and hire someone worse.

    Now to this "strategic restructuring". It's interesting that those of you who buy that this is going on for good reason, are also buying that messrs Varney Kavanagh and possibly Everitt have left because the new board don't want them, and think they can bring in better people. Well I deal with this kind of thing all the time, and earn money from it. The thing is that this usually happens when the business is doing badly and some people have been identified as under-performing. Now, a few people have pointed out that things went conspicuously badly after 2006. But what happened in the last twelve months? Conspicuous, almost unbeatable success on the pitch, and as far as I can see pretty faultless off the pitch too, at least in the customer-facing areas. In the businesses I work with, the response would be promotion, bonuses and back-slapping all round. Definitely not removing the key people who have spearheaded the off the pitch success. And definitely, definitely not seeing them leave without already having the replacements ready to come in, ideally with a handover period.

    And that, from a business perspective is why I am concerned about what seems to be happening, and this despite to some extent being exposed to the "not as bad as it looks" viewpoint.

    Spot on. I 'd like to develop PA's analysis slightly. One can identify two broad themes in managing a football business - on and off the pitch. Re the former, earlier posts made the point about the complicity of previous boards in our fall from grace. This is incontrovertible to me: appointments were made that failed and we paid the price with five years of execrable football, collapse of the old plc company etc.

    Off the pitch, however, the previous board stuck, apart from one year, to the affordable policies developed over the last 20 years. Attendances were maintained so that when recovery came we had lost a smaller part of our fanbase. Success on the pitch is always the biggest determinant of attendances and revenues but CAFC were able to mitigate the impact of the lack of football success via affordable pricing, Valley Express etc. If the affordable business model had been discarded, then prices hiked and attendances had sunk even further this would have left new owners with a bigger mess to clear up. One answer would be to have reduced the manager's budget. Less new players or not as good - do we have last season? Might well have gone up but who knows.

    This aspect of the business is firmly in the people business that PA describes. Other people at the Valley, notably Wendy Perfect, played roles but its architect was Rick, supported by PV and SK with RM firmly understanding of the approach. As part of the "strategic restructuring" all three are no longer part of the club. If you don't regard this as worrying I'm sorry I think you should.
  • The company that carried out the due diligence described CAFC as a "well run loss making company".

  • 2. It is quite easy to decide to get rid of a senior manager. It is much much harder to identify and hire someone better. If you don't plan it carefully, you end up with empty chairs, panic, and hire someone worse.

    As, indeed, we found with Curbs' departure. And I fear it will take Powell being sacked before people wake up to what's happening behind the scenes. TJ has already cost Newcastle their iconic manager, lest we forget - and replaced him with Joe Kinnear.

    Last year ended with the crowd singing loudly, We've got our Charlton back. Yet 4 months on, in the face of suggestions Powell isn't secure several people are questioning whether they would have the heart to continue their active support if he was unreasonably removed. For me, I'd feel I'd the Charlton I knew and loved had pretty much passed on, and - whilst it would be unthinkable to stop supporting the club - I'm not sure I'd know what I was supporting any more. Last year was special because it was led by Chris Powell.

    One of the many things that Rick's brought over the years is a balanced approach to developing the club's support, despite in recent times the lack of 'product' on the pitch: business focused but empathetic to the fans' needs and context. This is a remarkable achievement and one that has been key to keeping the club alive - could you imagine that we'd have survived on gates of 8,000, or the 4,000 I used to stand in back in the 80s? Below the Prem, gate receipts remain significant income and of course crowds bring secondary revenue streams as well. Maintaining our support levels hasn't been lucky, it's been relentless hard work behind the scenes by people who understand the stakeholders better than anyone.

    It certainly doesn't strike me as sensible to create distance between your business and its stakeholders as this board is doing, even in football. Every market has its tolerances, and when you see clubs like Arsenal struggling to fill their ground as their strategy has ignored the needs of their fans it should be a serious wake up call to smaller clubs like us.

    Our Charlton is being eroded away, and to my mind Rick's departure is another significant blow.
  • Worth remembering that if the new lot/ (anyone else) had not come in we would still be likely at best languishing in the 3rd division living hand to mouth and certainly wouldn't have the squad that won the league last year or CP.

    I'd hazard a guess a lot more people would have lost their jobs and maybe the place of work, the club, wouldnt even exist if the evil mysterons hadn't rolled into town with their money intent on destroying all things Charlton.
  • I have so far refrained from commenting on this and other similar threads but having read everything, or at least most comments, I only have this to say.

    The club is nothing, literally nothing, without supporters.

    Think very carefully over your next move Mr TJ.
  • edited September 2012

    Worth remembering that if the new lot/ (anyone else) had not come in we would still be likely at best languishing in the 3rd division living hand to mouth and certainly wouldn't have the squad that won the league last year or CP.

    I'd hazard a guess a lot more people would have lost their jobs and maybe the place of work, the club, wouldnt even exist if the evil mysterons hadn't rolled into town with their money intent on destroying all things Charlton.

    They could have sold a player, as the new lot actually did to keep it afloat. It could have been bought by a supporters trust and local consortium. It could have gone into admin and be in the third division, it could be in tier 3 next year. Some clubs have their ground owned by the local athority, this could have happened to us.

    Lots of could haves but you can't necessarily be sure what might have happened, can you?

    I suspect the administration scenario would be far worse under the current owners than the previous ones, look at Pompey.
  • Speculation Morti, speculation Saga.

    Fair point

  • edited September 2012

    Speculation Morti, speculation Saga.

    Fair point

    Agreed - I should've stopped at my first paragraph - I have no inside information.
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