Can we leave Chris Powell out of this discussion, there is NO evidence that his position is under threat from TJ. It was TJ and MS who appointed Powell, the 'previous lot' were the ones who appointed Dowie, Reed, Pardew, Parkinson...indeed if TJ is going around sacking all the old guard, then he needs 'Charlton' types in the dugout even more.
The club before MS and TJ did seem (as an outsider) well run in terms of its admin and day to day activities, the mistakes (managers, transfers, levels of expenditure) were presumably made at more senior level. Of course I don't know what really happened, and how good a job people were actually doing, presumably Protheroe as an outsider with lots of football experience has been asked to do this task.
Charlton's gates have stayed up pretty well, probably helped by the lack of local competition - if Millwall got into the PL (and had a less scummy image) for example, would they have taken some of our more casual support? Another reason is that our prices are lower than most of our rivals, great for us, but whether that is a good business decision is an interesting question, which I can't answer.
Worth remembering that if the new lot/ (anyone else) had not come in we would still be likely at best languishing in the 3rd division living hand to mouth and certainly wouldn't have the squad that won the league last year or CP.
I'd hazard a guess a lot more people would have lost their jobs and maybe the place of work, the club, wouldnt even exist if the evil mysterons hadn't rolled into town with their money intent on destroying all things Charlton.
Rodney, I respect your view fella and you are right on the first bit.
But from my point of view (and take it as my theory, not fact)....
"the new lot" are not "the current lot" anymore.
The "new lot" (excluding Murrary) basically consisted of:
1. Jiminez / a backer of Jiminez, 2. Another backer with cash who clearly doesn't like his name named 3. The 2nd one's elected lawyer (Slater) 4. Varney for day-to-day running insight and input / Charlton knowledge, acceptable face
My guess is that the vast majority of the funding from 'the new lot', both immediately and for future progressive projections, centred around No.2. You can put forward as many front men as you want, but in a loss-making business, or a potentially progressive business, the sum and source of the financing is everything. If, as has been suggested, No.2 has (for whatever reason) decided to pull the plug on putting in further financing, we are left with No.1 and No.2s lawyer to continue to oversee his current investment.
So, if i'm correct, from 'the new lot', we have lost over the last few months:
1. the main source of financing and 2. the main source of knowledge on Charlton and how to run a football club.
Add on to that we have also lost further members of the board, a chief executive, and the one club manager who has a genuine understanding of our fanbase and how to maximise it, then i really don't see how we can see 'the new lot' as 'the current lot' anymore.
Can we leave Chris Powell out of this discussion, there is NO evidence that his position is under threat from TJ. It was TJ and MS who appointed Powell, the 'previous lot' were the ones who appointed Dowie, Reed, Pardew, Parkinson...indeed if TJ is going around sacking all the old guard, then he needs 'Charlton' types in the dugout even more.
The club before MS and TJ did seem (as an outsider) well run in terms of its admin and day to day activities, the mistakes (managers, transfers, levels of expenditure) were presumably made at more senior level. Of course I don't know what really happened, and how good a job people were actually doing, presumably Protheroe as an outsider with lots of football experience has been asked to do this task.
Charlton's gates have stayed up pretty well, probably helped by the lack of local competition - if Millwall got into the PL (and had a less scummy image) for example, would they have taken some of our more casual support? Another reason is that our prices are lower than most of our rivals, great for us, but whether that is a good business decision is an interesting question, which I can't answer.
I think the answer is in the question - without good business decisions we could not sustain such fantastic gates, because until last year the on-pitch 'product' has been pretty awful for 5 and a half years.
In the 80s, when we were last at that level, the average gate was around 7k. Pre-Selhurst years our Valley gates were frequently 4k. Successfully winning arguments re competitive pricing to maximise revenue is just one part of the hard work that's kept the gates up. Millwall and Palace have been more successful on the pitch than us in the last 3 years, let's not deny it. Yet last year I believe our average crowd was significantly larger than both. Don't deceive yourself this just happens - it's hard work and good business decisions, indeed better business decisions than our competitors. You only have to hear Scally's whinging from deepest darkest Gillingham to recognise that. :-)
Worth remembering that if the new lot/ (anyone else) had not come in we would still be likely at best languishing in the 3rd division living hand to mouth and certainly wouldn't have the squad that won the league last year or CP.
I'd hazard a guess a lot more people would have lost their jobs and maybe the place of work, the club, wouldnt even exist if the evil mysterons hadn't rolled into town with their money intent on destroying all things Charlton.
Whilst that is all undoubtedly true, it doesn't mean that we are not perfectly entitled to query the actions of our saviours.
For the first year and a half of their tenure I don't think anyone would find fault in how the club was run. Ever since the beginning of summer their conduct has been at best odd, and at worst quite sinister. Long standing and trusted servants of the club being quietly removed without a proper explanation amidst a series of rumours including suggestions that various contractors used by the club haven't been getting paid. We should be questioning that, regardless of the positive aspects that their ownership of the club has brought.
Can we leave Chris Powell out of this discussion, there is NO evidence that his position is under threat from TJ.
Agree, let's face that if and when it happens although remember Powell wasn't their first choice.
Right now, speculating on Powell going is going way too far and just dilutes the case being made about known events.
I agree with what @AFKABartram says especially that two of the key players in the "new lot" ie Kevin Cash(and his cash) and Varney have gone.
But don't forget that Rick wasn't the only Charlton fan or the only activist for supporters employed at the Club. That's not to lessen Rick's work but the likes of Dave Archer and Mick Everett have also been there and worn the T-shirt.
I agree that few if any supporters can claim to have made even a fraction of Rick's contribution over the years and he has played a massive part in the success of the club. I think the club is weaker without the talents that he has demonstarted over the years. Whilst I can see why the point has been made that he didn't start the rumours, one or two posts he made could reasonably be claimed to fuel the flames. When Varney left, I didn't get the impression Rick sided with the current owners from his comments and I was a bit surprised he was still in his job tbh. I suspected this could be because they had the sense to realise that it might be better to have him on the inside where you have some control over him, than on the outside working against you. They may live to regret their decision.
I suppose what has made Rick so influential is the fact that he isn't afraid of a battle. It wouldn't surprise me if he was back at the club in the not so distant future. If they haven't provided a half decent severance and got him to sign a compromise agreement, they will regret it at some stage. Richard Murray had the good sense to employ a potential enemy and turn him into a friend. The club benefitted hugely from this and I'm sure Richard would be aware of Rick's contribution. It would suggest he doesn't hold much sway in the running of the club.
We should all thank Rick for his efforts and look forward to what he does next. As for the current owners- well - they are the owners. We do have to acknowledge that we would be in a worse position if it wasn't for them even though the position doesn't look too healthy at the moment. The problem I have with a trust is not the good intentions of those involved but the fact that to influence you need to put up the dosh and have people willing to engage with you - if not you can be a destructive force. A time may come when it is needed, but not sure the club needs a club v fans battle at this point. It possibly needs new owners or at least new money but not battles.
Worth remembering that if the new lot/ (anyone else) had not come in we would still be likely at best languishing in the 3rd division living hand to mouth and certainly wouldn't have the squad that won the league last year or CP.
I'd hazard a guess a lot more people would have lost their jobs and maybe the place of work, the club, wouldnt even exist if the evil mysterons hadn't rolled into town with their money intent on destroying all things Charlton.
They could have sold a player, as the new lot actually did to keep it afloat. It could have been bought by a supporters trust and local consortium. It could have gone into admin and be in the third division, it could be in tier 3 next year. Some clubs have their ground owned by the local athority, this could have happened to us.
Lots of could haves but you can't necessarily be sure what might have happened, can you?
I suspect the administration scenario would be far worse under the current owners than the previous ones, look at Pompey.
You should be rubbing your hands together Razil. The rate at which this club is releasing(sacking) good people to become vital members of the supporters trust is astounding!
But don't forget that Rick wasn't the only Charlton fan or the only activist for supporters employed at the Club. That's not to lessen Rick's work but the likes of Dave Archer and Mick Everett have also been there and worn the T-shirt.
True, and you don't have to be a Charlton fan to be a valued employee, Steve Kavanagh wasn't a Charlton fan for example. Simillarly, just because someone has done wonderful work as a Charlton activist, it doesn't automatically make them qualified to work for the club...
The problem I have with a trust is not the good intentions of those involved but the fact that to influence you need to put up the dosh and have people willing to engage with you - if not you can be a destructive force. A time may come when it is needed, but not sure the club needs a club v fans battle at this point. It possibly needs new owners or at least new money but not battles.
Hi Muttley
It takes time for a Trust to raise serious money. Too often Trusts have been formed on the point of admin, and not left themselves enough time to raise funds. The guys who have started the Trust are not in any way spoiling for a fight. On the other hand, they will only be taken seriously by the club -whoever is in charge - if they have a significant number of members. If you join now you can have a say in exactly what the goals should be and how the Trust relates to the owners. The guys who have set up are not 'old guard' and not confrontational types at all, and they welcome active support and suggestions.
The problem I have with a trust is not the good intentions of those involved but the fact that to influence you need to put up the dosh and have people willing to engage with you - if not you can be a destructive force. A time may come when it is needed, but not sure the club needs a club v fans battle at this point. It possibly needs new owners or at least new money but not battles.
Hi Muttley
It takes time for a Trust to raise serious money. Too often Trusts have been formed on the point of admin, and not left themselves enough time to raise funds. The guys who have started the Trust are not in any way spoiling for a fight. On the other hand, they will only be taken seriously by the club -whoever is in charge - if they have a significant number of members. If you join now you can have a say in exactly what the goals should be and how the Trust relates to the owners. The guys who have set up are not 'old guard' and not confrontational types at all, and they welcome active support and suggestions.
I undertsand what you are saying, and if it is about giving itself time to raise money - well no arguments. But if it starts getting into disputes with the current management of the club - it will end in tears. Not siding with them at all, but they are the owners with the control and antagonising them would not be helpful IMO.
But don't forget that Rick wasn't the only Charlton fan or the only activist for supporters employed at the Club. That's not to lessen Rick's work but the likes of Dave Archer and Mick Everett have also been there and worn the T-shirt.
True, and you don't have to be a Charlton fan to be a valued employee, Steve Kavanagh wasn't a Charlton fan for example. Simillarly, just because someone has done wonderful work as a Charlton activist, it doesn't automatically make them qualified to work for the club...
True, Chris Powell isn't a Charlton fan nor was Alan Curbishley.
Regardless Rick did a good job IMHO and I do have the benefit of having seen that work close up on the Target 40k group and elsewhere.
My experience of the trusts early meetings (and I have attended all of them) is how much the trust want to collaborate with the parent club in the exchange if ideas and stuff. At no point has there been any notion that the trust is being created to seek any kind of confrontation at all. I agree with others here that for the trust to be a credible force/rallying point/voice of the supporrt it needs a lot of members. The debate has been a lot about what a trust member would be a member of...all I can say is get involved and help it evolve. There are over 150 trusts established out there, of varying hues, but that is a lot of people in Britain who have pondered, and then concluded that a Supporters Trust is worth having. I for one hope next weeks meeting is bursting at the seams, not for egotists to grandstand a public event, but for true Charltonians to unite in some way. If you can't participate, then at least sign up, and be proud to join in. I am an older supporter now, but the generation(s) younger than me are fine proud articulate Charlton supporters who are not motivated by selfishness or ego...but by their love for Charlton Athletic.
But don't forget that Rick wasn't the only Charlton fan or the only activist for supporters employed at the Club. That's not to lessen Rick's work but the likes of Dave Archer and Mick Everett have also been there and worn the T-shirt.
True, and you don't have to be a Charlton fan to be a valued employee, Steve Kavanagh wasn't a Charlton fan for example. Simillarly, just because someone has done wonderful work as a Charlton activist, it doesn't automatically make them qualified to work for the club...
True, Chris Powell isn't a Charlton fan nor was Alan Curbishley.
Regardless Rick did a good job IMHO and I do have the benefit of having seen that work close up on the Target 40k group and elsewhere.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest Charlton activists currently working for the club weren't doing an excellent job, especially Rick, just suggesting that employees can be just as good (or bad) even if they're not Charlton fans, or activists from the legendary Back to the Valley generation. Indeed at some point in the future, all that generation will have moved on or retired, and the club will be entirely run by people with no experience of Selhurst and The Valley Party...
Sorry guys I don't have time to read through 346 comments and find out wants going on. : (
So can some one summarise the events of the thread so far and tell me has airman (Rick) been sacked? If he has then its a huge loss to the club and he will be missed.
Sorry guys I don't have time to read through 346 comments and find out wants going on. : (
So can some one summarise the events of the thread so far and tell me has airman (Rick) been sacked? If he has then its a huge loss to the club and he will be missed.
Rick has gone not sure whether he walked or was pushed.
The rest of it is mainly typical Charlton Life bickering and point scoring, sadly, as to how important (or not) Rick's contribution was compared to other people.
Airman has been sacked. There is a pattern developing. What happens about initiatives and attendances. Who is in charge/what is Mr Protheroes role. The next and major supporters Trust meeting is looming. Internet forums are to blame/are not as influential as you think they are.
The Trust will seek to represent the fans, and seek as positive a relationship as possible with the Board. If the latter isn't possible we will continue with the former. The Trust we are trying to form is for the long haul, and not just about buying the club or what have you if it happens to be available, it is about preserving the club generally, because that is what fans want.
But don't forget that Rick wasn't the only Charlton fan or the only activist for supporters employed at the Club. That's not to lessen Rick's work but the likes of Dave Archer and Mick Everett have also been there and worn the T-shirt.
True, and you don't have to be a Charlton fan to be a valued employee, Steve Kavanagh wasn't a Charlton fan for example. Simillarly, just because someone has done wonderful work as a Charlton activist, it doesn't automatically make them qualified to work for the club...
True, Chris Powell isn't a Charlton fan nor was Alan Curbishley.
Regardless Rick did a good job IMHO and I do have the benefit of having seen that work close up on the Target 40k group and elsewhere.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest Charlton activists currently working for the club weren't doing an excellent job, especially Rick, just suggesting that employees can be just as good (or bad) even if they're not Charlton fans, or activists from the legendary Back to the Valley generation. Indeed at some point in the future, all that generation will have moved on or retired, and the club will be entirely run by people with no experience of Selhurst and The Valley Party...
KandF, I didn't think that was what you were suggesting for a second. I agree employees are good (or bad) on what they do not who they support.
Personally the sooner we have a new generation of activists who weren't involved in the VP or went to Selhurst the better.
While I believe that those that do not know their history are destined to repeat it we also need to look forward and not live in the past.
If anyone would like to hear the CAS trust interview that was on BBC London it is available on the trust website: http://www.castrust.org/ The chairman explains how to get in touch, and how the trust hopes to work with the board and other steakholders 'To preserve Charlton Athletic Football Club for this and future generations'
You can help as a supporter, Please come to the public meeting open to all fans at the Charlton conservative club on the 25th September.If you cannot make the meeting then you can also contact the trust on Facebook page www.facebook.com/castrust we can also be reached on twitter @castrust and email to enquiries@castrust.org.
Worth remembering that if the new lot/ (anyone else) had not come in we would still be likely at best languishing in the 3rd division living hand to mouth and certainly wouldn't have the squad that won the league last year or CP.
I'd hazard a guess a lot more people would have lost their jobs and maybe the place of work, the club, wouldnt even exist if the evil mysterons hadn't rolled into town with their money intent on destroying all things Charlton.
Rodney, I respect your view fella and you are right on the first bit.
But from my point of view (and take it as my theory, not fact)....
"the new lot" are not "the current lot" anymore.
The "new lot" (excluding Murrary) basically consisted of:
1. Jiminez / a backer of Jiminez, 2. Another backer with cash who clearly doesn't like his name named 3. The 2nd one's elected lawyer (Slater) 4. Varney for day-to-day running insight and input / Charlton knowledge, acceptable face
My guess is that the vast majority of the funding from 'the new lot', both immediately and for future progressive projections, centred around No.2. You can put forward as many front men as you want, but in a loss-making business, or a potentially progressive business, the sum and source of the financing is everything. If, as has been suggested, No.2 has (for whatever reason) decided to pull the plug on putting in further financing, we are left with No.1 and No.2s lawyer to continue to oversee his current investment.
So, if i'm correct, from 'the new lot', we have lost over the last few months:
1. the main source of financing and 2. the main source of knowledge on Charlton and how to run a football club.
Add on to that we have also lost further members of the board, a chief executive, and the one club manager who has a genuine understanding of our fanbase and how to maximise it, then i really don't see how we can see 'the new lot' as 'the current lot' anymore.
Just my opinion.
As usual, AFKA has this spot on IMHO.
Regardless of whether we are paying bills ( and wages) , looking at bringing in loanees etc or not, the infastructure at the Club has been seriously weakened with the departure of "The 3 ". In effect, there is NO CEO in the true sense of the word - this in itself must surely cause problems if departmental managers have no-one to answer to/discuss matters with. Although those managers have mainly been in position for some years, it must be extremely worrying for them , in part as to their own futures and also working in general without the support of an Exec Officer. The Valley must be a difficult workplace these days. And at some point in the not too distant future, there will inevitably be a final straw ....
I remember posting around the time of the " new lot" coming aboard that I was totally happy with Peter Varney being a part of the set up. It was clear to me that he would ensure that the infastructure lacking in the past few seasons, was rebuilt as a sound basis for the Club to grow & go forward. Indeed, we did see this happening from the end of May 2011 until the recent close season when worrying rumours ( some would say news) started to emanate from SE7.
Since then we have lost 3 of the most ( if not THE most) important people from behind the scenes & only a very naive Lifer would surely state that this is possibly "the way forward" for the Club or that it's merely a "new broom". I'm trying very hard to avoid bringing emotions into this but I have dealt with all 3 in the past & find it hard to accept that I won't do so again. Three more committed, hard working & honest guys would be hard to find. Who will take their places and when ?
If this is progress, then I fear for our future .....
Brilliant posts from AFKA and Fanny. I never understood why they bought us in the first place and now I don't understand why they are wrecking everything. The ragged remnants of the regime are presumably either seeking to sell or to find a new source of cash. Either way, it makes no sense to me to dismantle a successful structure whilst simultaneously upsetting the supporters. What, exactly, do they think they are doing?
Brilliant posts from AFKA and Fanny. I never understood why they bought us in the first place and now I don't understand why they are wrecking everything. The ragged remnants of the regime are presumably either seeking to sell or to find a new source of cash. Either way, it makes no sense to me to dismantle a successful structure whilst simultaneously upsetting the supporters. What, exactly, do they think they are doing?
I think it maybe as simple as a huge falling out over money. Alex Newell, Michael Slater and Denis Wise are all part of Kevin Cash's gang , all sent him their good wishes and gave donations to his nominated charity for his wedding last year which is on the web for all to see. Now Wise is taking Jiminez to court over an 800,000 pound debt he is owed for a business venture. Has a similar problem occured between Jiminez and Cash? As he was also in kev's gang as well.
Don't get this post wrong, I have the same level of feeling that there could be impending doom as most on here but I do think that, if all the lack of finance rumours are to be believed, then it is creditable that the squad has been kept together.
It would have been very easy to sell some of our 'crown jewels' but they haven't so I guess they view that they'd have a better chance selling/obtaining more investment with this squad than with a weakened one. So I don't wholly buy the 'they don't give a shit about CAFC view'. Many concerns - yes, of course, but I think there is some effort being made to do what they think is the right thing in creating a future for the club.
As for Airman going, I don't know him and it is clear he plays a role in CAFC's history but, in business, I've seen many a key employee 'let go' having done something critically positive in the (quite often recent) past. But, if they're working against what the company is aiming at or have overstepped the mark in some way then usually they have to go. Yes, sometimes it could be done with more dignity (I was on the receiving end of a brutal one about 15 years ago) but it doesn't change the outcome - they have to make what they think are the right decisions.
As I said up front, don't get me wrong - without more money I can only see this ending one way and the sound of this bloke Jimenez scares the bejesus out of me but I don't suppose every decision he/they make is a bad one - things, I am sure, are not that black and white.
This post is going to be about the club as a business (so some may not be interested).
First of all the business of a club Charlton's size, and of most of the smaller FAPL clubs is not at all complex or difficult to understand. It gets revenue, from the gate receipts, from TV, from major sponsorships, and various smaller commercial activities. It has costs which are largely transfer fees and salaries, and those related to the ground, plus externals such as policing. If the costs exceed the revenues, like any other business, the money has to be found from somewhere, and frequently this is covered by outgoing transfer fees, or directly by owners. The main problem in English football is that costs of players have been allowed to spiral out of control. Its also worth mentioning that individual clubs are not big businesses either. A club Charlton's size falls firmly in the SME bracket, and is smaller than for example the London advertising agency where I worked during the VP time.
The reason I keep talking about it being a "people business" is that people are the main assets. Principally the players, and their output is unpredictable. It is also a consumer business, albeit with an unusually close relationship with a specific group of customers. The role of the people behind the scenes is often forgotten but they play a key role in creating the overall 'experience'. They can make you feel that for all that we lost at home to effing Palace, the club is run by people like you,who come from the same place as you, people who are glad you attend and are in it with you. It is perfectly possible that this effect could have a lot to do with our higher gates than those of Palace or Millwall.
Now lets talk about the profile of people in a business like this. I'd like to mention that since I withdrew from the front line of advertising in 1994 (it being no place for old men) my main work is helping to build the teams of such agencies and of their client's so I have learnt a great deal about hiring and firing and have worked with many restructures and observed many more. Here are some things I've learnt which are pertinent to CAFC, not just now, but generally.
1. "Businessmen" are not universally successful at any business. Either at the top or in senior management. So for example Unilever will consider a CEO from somewhere like Heineken because they are both FMCG businesses. But you never see them hiring from somewhere like Thames Water. Richard Murray's main business, Avesco, is a people business. He once described it to me as a 'giant roadie business'. A property developer is not experienced in a people business. However that doesn't mean a property developer can't run a people business. But he must recruit lieutenants who are that way experienced, and then allow them to get on with the job.
2. It is quite easy to decide to get rid of a senior manager. It is much much harder to identify and hire someone better. If you don't plan it carefully, you end up with empty chairs, panic, and hire someone worse.
Now to this "strategic restructuring". It's interesting that those of you who buy that this is going on for good reason, are also buying that messrs Varney Kavanagh and possibly Everitt have left because the new board don't want them, and think they can bring in better people. Well I deal with this kind of thing all the time, and earn money from it. The thing is that this usually happens when the business is doing badly and some people have been identified as under-performing. Now, a few people have pointed out that things went conspicuously badly after 2006. But what happened in the last twelve months? Conspicuous, almost unbeatable success on the pitch, and as far as I can see pretty faultless off the pitch too, at least in the customer-facing areas. In the businesses I work with, the response would be promotion, bonuses and back-slapping all round. Definitely not removing the key people who have spearheaded the off the pitch success. And definitely, definitely not seeing them leave without already having the replacements ready to come in, ideally with a handover period.
And that, from a business perspective is why I am concerned about what seems to be happening, and this despite to some extent being exposed to the "not as bad as it looks" viewpoint.
Absolutey spot on PA. The heart is being ripped out of our beloved club, we the supporters who have followed it from hell and back, are now looked upon as just numbers on a spead sheet.
we need answers from MS and TJ - but don't hold your breath.
Brilliant posts from AFKA and Fanny. I never understood why they bought us in the first place and now I don't understand why they are wrecking everything. The ragged remnants of the regime are presumably either seeking to sell or to find a new source of cash. Either way, it makes no sense to me to dismantle a successful structure whilst simultaneously upsetting the supporters. What, exactly, do they think they are doing?
I think it maybe as simple as a huge falling out over money. Alex Newell, Michael Slater and Denis Wise are all part of Kevin Cash's gang , all sent him their good wishes and gave donations to his nominated charity for his wedding last year which is on the web for all to see. Now Wise is taking Jiminez to court over an 800,000 pound debt he is owed for a business venture. Has a similar problem occured between Jiminez and Cash? As he was also in kev's gang as well.
Think you could well be correct in your assumptions, HG.
Don't get this post wrong, I have the same level of feeling that there could be impending doom as most on here but I do think that, if all the lack of finance rumours are to be believed, then it is creditable that the squad has been kept together.
It would have been very easy to sell some of our 'crown jewels' but they haven't so I guess they view that they'd have a better chance selling/obtaining more investment with this squad than with a weakened one. So I don't wholly buy the 'they don't give a shit about CAFC view'. Many concerns - yes, of course, but I think there is some effort being made to do what they think is the right thing in creating a future for the club.
As for Airman going, I don't know him and it is clear he plays a role in CAFC's history but, in business, I've seen many a key employee 'let go' having done something critically positive in the (quite often recent) past. But, if they're working against what the company is aiming at or have overstepped the mark in some way then usually they have to go. Yes, sometimes it could be done with more dignity (I was on the receiving end of a brutal one about 15 years ago) but it doesn't change the outcome - they have to make what they think are the right decisions.
As I said up front, don't get me wrong - without more money I can only see this ending one way and the sound of this bloke Jimenez scares the bejesus out of me but I don't suppose every decision he/they make is a bad one - things, I am sure, are not that black and white.
Have to agree that it is creditable that the squad has been kept together...
But credit should go to who (whom ? )
How about the scenario that TJ was desperate to sell players ( esp Solly) but SCP gave him an ultimatum ....you sell, and I go too ?
As others have hinted , I too am concerned as to what the Gaffer's feeling at this moment in time. A reasonable start to the season but unless he's allowed to strengthen the squad with a couple of relevant loanees & we struggle on the pitch, whose head might be next on the chopping block ?
Rick took every reasonable and pertinent opportunity to offer some insight into the goings on within the Club. Yet he has chosen not to comment on a thread devoted entirely to himself which would suggest that his "departure" is not something that he is able to comment upon - be it due to unfair dismissal proceedings or as a binding agreement in relation to any severance pay.
Knowing what I do about Rick (perhaps not as much as some on here) I would suggest it more likely to be the former reason.
Comments
The club before MS and TJ did seem (as an outsider) well run in terms of its admin and day to day activities, the mistakes (managers, transfers, levels of expenditure) were presumably made at more senior level. Of course I don't know what really happened, and how good a job people were actually doing, presumably Protheroe as an outsider with lots of football experience has been asked to do this task.
Charlton's gates have stayed up pretty well, probably helped by the lack of local competition - if Millwall got into the PL (and had a less scummy image) for example, would they have taken some of our more casual support? Another reason is that our prices are lower than most of our rivals, great for us, but whether that is a good business decision is an interesting question, which I can't answer.
But from my point of view (and take it as my theory, not fact)....
"the new lot" are not "the current lot" anymore.
The "new lot" (excluding Murrary) basically consisted of:
1. Jiminez / a backer of Jiminez,
2. Another backer with cash who clearly doesn't like his name named
3. The 2nd one's elected lawyer (Slater)
4. Varney for day-to-day running insight and input / Charlton knowledge, acceptable face
My guess is that the vast majority of the funding from 'the new lot', both immediately and for future progressive projections, centred around No.2. You can put forward as many front men as you want, but in a loss-making business, or a potentially progressive business, the sum and source of the financing is everything. If, as has been suggested, No.2 has (for whatever reason) decided to pull the plug on putting in further financing, we are left with No.1 and No.2s lawyer to continue to oversee his current investment.
So, if i'm correct, from 'the new lot', we have lost over the last few months:
1. the main source of financing and
2. the main source of knowledge on Charlton and how to run a football club.
Add on to that we have also lost further members of the board, a chief executive, and the one club manager who has a genuine understanding of our fanbase and how to maximise it, then i really don't see how we can see 'the new lot' as 'the current lot' anymore.
Just my opinion.
In the 80s, when we were last at that level, the average gate was around 7k. Pre-Selhurst years our Valley gates were frequently 4k. Successfully winning arguments re competitive pricing to maximise revenue is just one part of the hard work that's kept the gates up. Millwall and Palace have been more successful on the pitch than us in the last 3 years, let's not deny it. Yet last year I believe our average crowd was significantly larger than both. Don't deceive yourself this just happens - it's hard work and good business decisions, indeed better business decisions than our competitors. You only have to hear Scally's whinging from deepest darkest Gillingham to recognise that. :-)
For the first year and a half of their tenure I don't think anyone would find fault in how the club was run. Ever since the beginning of summer their conduct has been at best odd, and at worst quite sinister. Long standing and trusted servants of the club being quietly removed without a proper explanation amidst a series of rumours including suggestions that various contractors used by the club haven't been getting paid. We should be questioning that, regardless of the positive aspects that their ownership of the club has brought.
Agree, let's face that if and when it happens although remember Powell wasn't their first choice.
Right now, speculating on Powell going is going way too far and just dilutes the case being made about known events.
I agree with what @AFKABartram says especially that two of the key players in the "new lot" ie Kevin Cash(and his cash) and Varney have gone.
But don't forget that Rick wasn't the only Charlton fan or the only activist for supporters employed at the Club. That's not to lessen Rick's work but the likes of Dave Archer and Mick Everett have also been there and worn the T-shirt.
I suppose what has made Rick so influential is the fact that he isn't afraid of a battle. It wouldn't surprise me if he was back at the club in the not so distant future. If they haven't provided a half decent severance and got him to sign a compromise agreement, they will regret it at some stage. Richard Murray had the good sense to employ a potential enemy and turn him into a friend. The club benefitted hugely from this and I'm sure Richard would be aware of Rick's contribution. It would suggest he doesn't hold much sway in the running of the club.
We should all thank Rick for his efforts and look forward to what he does next. As for the current owners- well - they are the owners. We do have to acknowledge that we would be in a worse position if it wasn't for them even though the position doesn't look too healthy at the moment. The problem I have with a trust is not the good intentions of those involved but the fact that to influence you need to put up the dosh and have people willing to engage with you - if not you can be a destructive force. A time may come when it is needed, but not sure the club needs a club v fans battle at this point. It possibly needs new owners or at least new money but not battles.
Here's hoping for some positive developments.
You should be rubbing your hands together Razil. The rate at which this club is releasing(sacking) good people to become vital members of the supporters trust is astounding!
It takes time for a Trust to raise serious money. Too often Trusts have been formed on the point of admin, and not left themselves enough time to raise funds. The guys who have started the Trust are not in any way spoiling for a fight. On the other hand, they will only be taken seriously by the club -whoever is in charge - if they have a significant number of members. If you join now you can have a say in exactly what the goals should be and how the Trust relates to the owners. The guys who have set up are not 'old guard' and not confrontational types at all, and they welcome active support and suggestions.
Regardless Rick did a good job IMHO and I do have the benefit of having seen that work close up on the Target 40k group and elsewhere.
I agree with others here that for the trust to be a credible force/rallying point/voice of the supporrt it needs a lot of members.
The debate has been a lot about what a trust member would be a member of...all I can say is get involved and help it evolve. There are over 150 trusts established out there, of varying hues, but that is a lot of people in Britain who have pondered, and then concluded that a Supporters Trust is worth having.
I for one hope next weeks meeting is bursting at the seams, not for egotists to grandstand a public event, but for true Charltonians to unite in some way.
If you can't participate, then at least sign up, and be proud to join in. I am an older supporter now, but the generation(s) younger than me are fine proud articulate Charlton supporters who are not motivated by selfishness or ego...but by their love for Charlton Athletic.
So can some one summarise the events of the thread so far and tell me has airman (Rick) been sacked? If he has then its a huge loss to the club and he will be missed.
The rest of it is mainly typical Charlton Life bickering and point scoring, sadly, as to how important (or not) Rick's contribution was compared to other people.
Airman has been sacked.
There is a pattern developing.
What happens about initiatives and attendances.
Who is in charge/what is Mr Protheroes role.
The next and major supporters Trust meeting is looming.
Internet forums are to blame/are not as influential as you think they are.
KandF, I didn't think that was what you were suggesting for a second. I agree employees are good (or bad) on what they do not who they support.
Personally the sooner we have a new generation of activists who weren't involved in the VP or went to Selhurst the better.
While I believe that those that do not know their history are destined to repeat it we also need to look forward and not live in the past.
http://www.castrust.org/
The chairman explains how to get in touch, and how the trust hopes to work with the board and other steakholders
'To preserve Charlton Athletic Football Club for this and future generations'
You can help as a supporter, Please come to the public meeting open to all fans at the Charlton conservative club on the 25th September.If you cannot make the meeting then you can also contact the trust on Facebook page www.facebook.com/castrust we can also be reached on twitter @castrust
and email to enquiries@castrust.org.
Regardless of whether we are paying bills ( and wages) , looking at bringing in loanees etc or not, the infastructure at the Club has been seriously weakened with the departure of "The 3 ". In effect, there is NO CEO in the true sense of the word - this in itself must surely cause problems if departmental managers have no-one to answer to/discuss matters with. Although those managers have mainly been in position for some years, it must be extremely worrying for them , in part as to their own futures and also working in general without the support of an Exec Officer. The Valley must be a difficult workplace these days. And at some point in the not too distant future, there will inevitably be a final straw ....
I remember posting around the time of the " new lot" coming aboard that I was totally happy with Peter Varney being a part of the set up. It was clear to me that he would ensure that the infastructure lacking in the past few seasons, was rebuilt as a sound basis for the Club to grow & go forward. Indeed, we did see this happening from the end of May 2011 until the recent close season when worrying rumours ( some would say news) started to emanate from SE7.
Since then we have lost 3 of the most ( if not THE most) important people from behind the scenes & only a very naive Lifer would surely state that this is possibly "the way forward" for the Club or that it's merely a "new broom". I'm trying very hard to avoid bringing emotions into this but I have dealt with all 3 in the past & find it hard to accept that I won't do so again. Three more committed, hard working & honest guys would be hard to find. Who will take their places and when ?
If this is progress, then I fear for our future .....
It would have been very easy to sell some of our 'crown jewels' but they haven't so I guess they view that they'd have a better chance selling/obtaining more investment with this squad than with a weakened one. So I don't wholly buy the 'they don't give a shit about CAFC view'. Many concerns - yes, of course, but I think there is some effort being made to do what they think is the right thing in creating a future for the club.
As for Airman going, I don't know him and it is clear he plays a role in CAFC's history but, in business, I've seen many a key employee 'let go' having done something critically positive in the (quite often recent) past. But, if they're working against what the company is aiming at or have overstepped the mark in some way then usually they have to go. Yes, sometimes it could be done with more dignity (I was on the receiving end of a brutal one about 15 years ago) but it doesn't change the outcome - they have to make what they think are the right decisions.
As I said up front, don't get me wrong - without more money I can only see this ending one way and the sound of this bloke Jimenez scares the bejesus out of me but I don't suppose every decision he/they make is a bad one - things, I am sure, are not that black and white.
we need answers from MS and TJ - but don't hold your breath.
But credit should go to who (whom ? )
How about the scenario that TJ was desperate to sell players ( esp Solly) but SCP gave him an ultimatum ....you sell, and I go too ?
As others have hinted , I too am concerned as to what the Gaffer's feeling at this moment in time. A reasonable start to the season but unless he's allowed to strengthen the squad with a couple of relevant loanees & we struggle on the pitch, whose head might be next on the chopping block ?
Think someone just walked over my grave....
Knowing what I do about Rick (perhaps not as much as some on here) I would suggest it more likely to be the former reason.