Prague - all fair points none of which I disagree with. Rick's passion and energy are without doubt. My point is that someone else may come in with experience of building income (maybe even fanbase?) and take Rick's work forward. So like in most businesses, professionalism, experience and yes energy counters passion. I cannot believe that the new owners are not looking at how to increase cash flow and if they considered the current team to be in tune with them then like your 'creative people' example, they would keep them and work with them. The situation just happens to be we don't know what that tune is.
Well, my argument is this; you can get energy and passion easily. I'm sure they could get 100 applicants from within the fanbase to replace Rick, who offer it in spades. But Rick has the experience and certainly in his dealings with the public, professionalism too. That is the more important attribute which they are throwing away.
Martin Prothero looks to me like he has the cv and experience from which Rick could learn, and they would be an effective revenue building team. I would also expect Prothero as an experienced corporate manager to recognise what experience and knowledge Rick possesses. Admittedly that takes time, and if it is true that Prothero is only working part time, he may not yet have had much time to work constructively with Rick, and instead has walked in knowing only that Rick is some kind of troublesome employee who needs to be ejected. Tragic.
Len if that was aimed at me you are way off the mark. I am not trying to score any points and as I said, I agreed with Prague's last post and truly value his and Rick's work for Charlton in the past and hopefully the future. My point is as we don not know what Clubs plan is or why he is leaving, we are making up a bleak story. I am simply stating another possible view on our future.
I've largely kept out of this but would simply say that both Rick and Prague Addick have been there and got the tee shirt when it comes to helping dig Charlton out of a hole.
Some people on this thread would be better off shutting up and listening to Prague in particular rather than seeking to score cheap semantic points and the like.
They might actually learn something.
Carry on.
Well said, Len.
I would add that they should also get involved /subscribe to the ST as he has repeatedly pointed out.
This group may well become the new Voice of The Valley and the largest coming together of fans since the Valley Party and it's followers.
Len if that was aimed at me you are way off the mark. I am not trying to score any points and as I said, I agreed with Prague's last post and truly value his and Rick's work for Charlton in the past and hopefully the future. My point is as we don not know what Clubs plan is or why he is leaving, we are making up a bleak story. I am simply stating another possible view on our future.
I've largely kept out of this but would simply say that both Rick and Prague Addick have been there and got the tee shirt when it comes to helping dig Charlton out of a hole.
Some people on this thread would be better off shutting up and listening to Prague in particular rather than seeking to score cheap semantic points and the like.
They might actually learn something.
Carry on.
I think that football has come a long way since those days and the lessons learnt from the past will drive the right thought process to resolve any thing that comes along this season
I can understand both sides of these discussions though as Like DRF says a lot of what is being said is only second hand
however the fact that we have lost 3 of the internal mgmt team already and the fact that we are hearing noises such as an investor has pulled out does indicate quite clearly to me that the plan to move us forward seems to be stalling and changing
one thing is for sure the truth is out there and without people like PA and others that are on here ( i know AFKA has mentioned before) there are people that post on here that are ITK and have postions with the CAFC structure and other aspects of football we will just be a silent majority
its right to question things that are posted on here but not to belittle or try to dismiss out of hand without really looking at the bigger picture first
Managements change, the culture of an organisation changes and roles and relationships change with it. People find more conflicts develop in their working life and respond to that by resisting, then changing, being removed or leaving. There is clearly a culture change taking place now which began around 20 months ago, and the new culture is yet to be clear to us, the supporters of the club they control, but increasingly looks like a small/medium corporate model, with the opportunities for little men trying to look big that go along with that. Often the only way for little men to look big is to use coercive management models. That's when whole cohorts of staff begin to go. That's what this looks like to me.
To me this seems all part and parcel of management techniques developed by Americans and now part of the 'change culture' used by managers/directors in companies across the Country.
Forming, norming, storming and performing I believe it's called.
A load of old crap I call it, though I'm sure Henry wouldn't agree.
Managements change, the culture of an organisation changes and roles and relationships change with it. People find more conflicts develop in their working life and respond to that by resisting, then changing, being removed or leaving. There is clearly a culture change taking place now which began around 20 months ago, and the new culture is yet to be clear to us, the supporters of the club they control, but increasingly looks like a small/medium corporate model, with the opportunities for little men trying to look big that go along with that. Often the only way for little men to look big is to use coercive management models. That's when whole cohorts of staff begin to go. That's what this looks like to me.
fair enough but then just make them redundant instead of making their positions untenable or sacking them.
Tell you what, Rick will have plenty of people on here to write a reference for him for the future!
Trying to stay out of this myself but finding it increasingly difficult the longer it goes on as some good posts and opinions are being drowned out by condescending over bearing repeated opinion, however, I tend to sit on the DRF/Addickted/RalphMilne side of opinion on things. (I think I've picked the right 3 people who have helped balance this 10 page epic thread which, rightly or wrongly, is a tribute to Rick Everitt!)
I dont think anyone is or can question the work that Rick has done for the club in the past, that can never be erased, but also, as I've mentioned before, a lot of the comments on here are based on opinion. We dont know what the office is like on a day to day basis and who does what and how things operate. Who is good at their job, and who isn't, we dont know the club's strategy and 3 year plan for the future, the plan for existing staff members, and the revised operation of the club under the new owners when they came in to the Club. I also dont believe that we 'deserve' to know. Yes, it would be nice, but we're kidding ourselves if we thought that under the old owners we knew. I recall not too long ago whinging and moaning fans wondering why the club never told us anything, why we were always last to find out about anything etc
We dont know why people left, we dont know who was sacked, who left of their own accord, who got booted. All we know is, people say they know people that know. And others are happy to go along with that. We dont know the plan for the future either, which I think is unsettling the majority, but like others have pointed out, we have never really known what our plan for the future is, when we were owned by 'those we trusted'.
These guys haven't done anything yet to prove that they cannot be trusted except for disrupt the structure of the club, which as yet, hasn't been detrimental in its effect (I know it's early days) but before we have the premature talk of ending support for the club, (really?!) I agree that everyone should stay on the side of caution and be aware that blowing hot air around amongst yourselves on this forum really isn't helping anyone, it is fuelling a hysteria. next time something happens at the club, opinions from this thread will be taken and turned into fact and repeated until people believe it and start losing the plot.
I guess if you want to do something constructive with your hot air and theories, go to the trust meetings and turn it into something positive for the future.
good post Suzi, can see where you are coming from. However, you can't deny that things have changed considerably over the summer and losing three stalwarts like Varney, Kavanagh and Everitt is far from ideal. I'd be happy if there is a 3 year plan but at the moment they seem to be winging-it and getting rid of those that are not happy with what has been going on. I take on board what you have said but personally I'm very worried.
Brilliant post, Suzi. Another fact people seem to be forgetting is that before the new people came in, the previous board had run the club dreadfully since 2005.
...although my gut feeling about the current lot is not good at all. The main thing is that we just don't know what they're doing, and we're not necessarily entitled to.
good post Suzi, can see where you are coming from. However, you can't deny that things have changed considerably over the summer and losing three stalwarts like Varney, Kavanagh and Everitt is far from ideal. I'd be happy if there is a 3 year plan but at the moment they seem to be winging-it and getting rid of those that are not happy with what has been going on. I take on board what you have said but personally I'm very worried.
The thing is Large, you (and others) may feel like they're winging it. (they may be) but they may also have a plan. This could be their plan? This could be what they agreed to do when they first took over? I understand that the change doesn't make people feel easy, but what if, (I understand its a big what if for some people) these changes are for the better? I know thats perhaps hard to see, and we can't demand that we know what that plan is. I also dont think we can just sit back and see what that plan is at the same time, but there is always going to be frustration at not knowing things and it wont sit easy with people, but it just might be a good thing? its in a humans nature to be worried and not like change. especially unexpected change, but good things do come out of change. perhaps not all the time granted, but i think people need to ease up on the dislike for the board campaign and perhaps be a little more patient. At the moment the club, which is what we have a vested interested in, have been promoted since they took over. That's positive and moving in the right direction. We dont have a financial or emotional interest in the careers of individuals, and whilst its admirable that everyone cares about these individuals, the club is everyone's main focus for the future. (whilst obviously wishing those who have left good luck on their future journeys)
The redundancy is based on a maximum of £430 per week.
The maximum number of years that can be taken into account is 20 years. You can't be given statutory redundancy pay for more than 20 years' employment.
For example: If you are 45, your weekly pay is £430 per week and you have completed 15 years’ full service, you will receive £7,310 statutory redundancy pay.
Step one: 1.5 weeks x 4 years full service when you were 41 or above = 6 weeks
Step two: 1 week x 11 years service when you were under 41 = 11 weeks
Suzi this message board is all the info we have; if we aren't proactive as fans trying to find out what is happening at our club don't we risk the past repeating itself - i.e a note saying we are moving to Selhurst.
I am not saying that that or anyting else is or isn't going to happen, but without us having any information how would we know? I personally as you probably know feel we as stakeholders are morally entitled to want more openness and information about the situation in our club.
I'm promoting the trust Razil, I just dont think you can ask millions of questions of the club (from the old owners or the new ones) and get millions of answers, I agree, it doesn't mean you should stop asking the millions of questions, but i think to do them as a joint force as a trust is going to be more positive and fruitful than asking them to each other on a message board winding each other up in hysteria. I admire the fact you've got the to the point that you've moaned enough on here and decided to do something about it and form the trust.
Tell you what, Rick will have plenty of people on here to write a reference for him for the future!
Trying to stay out of this myself but finding it increasingly difficult the longer it goes on as some good posts and opinions are being drowned out by condescending over bearing repeated opinion, however, I tend to sit on the DRF/Addickted/RalphMilne side of opinion on things. (I think I've picked the right 3 people who have helped balance this 10 page epic thread which, rightly or wrongly, is a tribute to Rick Everitt!)
I dont think anyone is or can question the work that Rick has done for the club in the past, that can never be erased, but also, as I've mentioned before, a lot of the comments on here are based on opinion. We dont know what the office is like on a day to day basis and who does what and how things operate. Who is good at their job, and who isn't, we dont know the club's strategy and 3 year plan for the future, the plan for existing staff members, and the revised operation of the club under the new owners when they came in to the Club. I also dont believe that we 'deserve' to know. Yes, it would be nice, but we're kidding ourselves if we thought that under the old owners we knew. I recall not too long ago whinging and moaning fans wondering why the club never told us anything, why we were always last to find out about anything etc
We dont know why people left, we dont know who was sacked, who left of their own accord, who got booted. All we know is, people say they know people that know. And others are happy to go along with that. We dont know the plan for the future either, which I think is unsettling the majority, but like others have pointed out, we have never really known what our plan for the future is, when we were owned by 'those we trusted'.
These guys haven't done anything yet to prove that they cannot be trusted except for disrupt the structure of the club, which as yet, hasn't been detrimental in its effect (I know it's early days) but before we have the premature talk of ending support for the club, (really?!) I agree that everyone should stay on the side of caution and be aware that blowing hot air around amongst yourselves on this forum really isn't helping anyone, it is fuelling a hysteria. next time something happens at the club, opinions from this thread will be taken and turned into fact and repeated until people believe it and start losing the plot.
I guess if you want to do something constructive with your hot air and theories, go to the trust meetings and turn it into something positive for the future.
A thought provoking perspective from someone that has actually worked for the Club albeit under a different regime.
I'm promoting the trust Razil, I just dont think you can ask millions of questions of the club (from the old owners or the new ones) and get millions of answers, I agree, it doesn't mean you should stop asking the millions of questions, but i think to do them as a joint force as a trust is going to be more positive and fruitful than asking them to each other on a message board winding each other up in hysteria. I admire the fact you've got the to the point that you've moaned enough on here and decided to do something about it and form the trust.
Comments
Martin Prothero looks to me like he has the cv and experience from which Rick could learn, and they would be an effective revenue building team. I would also expect Prothero as an experienced corporate manager to recognise what experience and knowledge Rick possesses. Admittedly that takes time, and if it is true that Prothero is only working part time, he may not yet have had much time to work constructively with Rick, and instead has walked in knowing only that Rick is some kind of troublesome employee who needs to be ejected. Tragic.
I would add that they should also get involved /subscribe to the ST as he has repeatedly pointed out.
This group may well become the new Voice of The Valley and the largest coming together of fans since the Valley Party and it's followers.
Read the 7 pages before this one!
I can understand both sides of these discussions though as Like DRF says a lot of what is being said is only second hand
however the fact that we have lost 3 of the internal mgmt team already and the fact that we are hearing noises such as an investor has pulled out does indicate quite clearly to me that the plan to move us forward seems to be stalling and changing
one thing is for sure the truth is out there and without people like PA and others that are on here ( i know AFKA has mentioned before) there are people that post on here that are ITK and have postions with the CAFC structure and other aspects of football we will just be a silent majority
its right to question things that are posted on here but not to belittle or try to dismiss out of hand without really looking at the bigger picture first
Forming, norming, storming and performing I believe it's called.
A load of old crap I call it, though I'm sure Henry wouldn't agree.
Someone on £50k who's been their 20 years and is over 50 would cost over £40k as a minimum.
Trying to stay out of this myself but finding it increasingly difficult the longer it goes on as some good posts and opinions are being drowned out by condescending over bearing repeated opinion, however, I tend to sit on the DRF/Addickted/RalphMilne side of opinion on things. (I think I've picked the right 3 people who have helped balance this 10 page epic thread which, rightly or wrongly, is a tribute to Rick Everitt!)
I dont think anyone is or can question the work that Rick has done for the club in the past, that can never be erased, but also, as I've mentioned before, a lot of the comments on here are based on opinion. We dont know what the office is like on a day to day basis and who does what and how things operate. Who is good at their job, and who isn't, we dont know the club's strategy and 3 year plan for the future, the plan for existing staff members, and the revised operation of the club under the new owners when they came in to the Club. I also dont believe that we 'deserve' to know. Yes, it would be nice, but we're kidding ourselves if we thought that under the old owners we knew. I recall not too long ago whinging and moaning fans wondering why the club never told us anything, why we were always last to find out about anything etc
We dont know why people left, we dont know who was sacked, who left of their own accord, who got booted. All we know is, people say they know people that know. And others are happy to go along with that. We dont know the plan for the future either, which I think is unsettling the majority, but like others have pointed out, we have never really known what our plan for the future is, when we were owned by 'those we trusted'.
These guys haven't done anything yet to prove that they cannot be trusted except for disrupt the structure of the club, which as yet, hasn't been detrimental in its effect (I know it's early days) but before we have the premature talk of ending support for the club, (really?!) I agree that everyone should stay on the side of caution and be aware that blowing hot air around amongst yourselves on this forum really isn't helping anyone, it is fuelling a hysteria. next time something happens at the club, opinions from this thread will be taken and turned into fact and repeated until people believe it and start losing the plot.
I guess if you want to do something constructive with your hot air and theories, go to the trust meetings and turn it into something positive for the future.
The maximum number of years that can be taken into account is 20 years. You can't be given statutory redundancy pay for more than 20 years' employment.
For example: If you are 45, your weekly pay is £430 per week and you have completed 15 years’ full service, you will receive £7,310 statutory redundancy pay.
Step one: 1.5 weeks x 4 years full service when you were 41 or above = 6 weeks
Step two: 1 week x 11 years service when you were under 41 = 11 weeks
Step three: 6 weeks + 11 weeks = 17 weeks x £430 (max weekly wage) = £7,310 statutory redundancy pay
Not that much I know by experience.
I am not saying that that or anyting else is or isn't going to happen, but without us having any information how would we know? I personally as you probably know feel we as stakeholders are morally entitled to want more openness and information about the situation in our club.