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Climate Emergency
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Who told Sunak this was a good idea? His speech is awful, almost like he wants the no confidence letters going in1
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Many diesel cars are compliant. People don’t need to buy electric cars or fancy petrol cars to be compliant. You can buy a compliant car for £1,500. Scrappage is 2k. 90% of the cars in the road are compliant. Blah blah.cabbles said:
Yes, and I agree with Ulez, and am fortunate enough to own an unleaded car, and if you dig deeper into those that support it, it might be that they’re not going to be impacted financially by Ulez. I’m not for any of those idiots pulling down cameras, but so many people drive diesel cars and don’t have the money to buy unleaded/electric regardless of the scrappage scheme. You’ve also got to factor in a chip shortage that has impacted supply of new vehicles, the exorbitant cost of leasing, and all the other cost of living increases, and this £12.50 is yet another expense that many see is unwarranted.JamesSeed said:
I think that’s less true than you might think.cabbles said:It’s all quite depressing imo. The most frustrating
Things like JSO and Ulez don’t help, because it detracts from the core focus of saving the planet. JSO because the lengths they go to piss people off and lessen the chance they will engage, and Ulez because it was very badly executed and thought through and now it’s become a tool for the Tories to use, justPlurality of Londoners Support Expanding London’s Ultra Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ)July 13, 2023R&WS Research Team‘Londoners view the ULEZ in a similar way as the congestion charge. 58% say they support the existence of the ULEZ in London, while 24% say they are opposed.’‘Support for expanding the ULEZ is slightly higher than is the case with the Congestion Charge, with a larger plurality (47%) coming out in support of expanding the zone and 32% opposed to the idea.’
When you consider the well organised campaign against ULEZ those figure might seem surprising.I suspect as with the congestion charge the number supporting ULEZ will grow as people adapt to it.It also shows that politicians can make a small difference in the fight against climate change.The mayor’s team didn’t handle the PR campaign at all well, and the implementation was clumsy and hurried. I expect that’s because he didn’t want the launch to be close to the date of the election. Unless there a post ULEZ backlash I think his polling numbers will probably improve next year, if they can show ULEZ is improving the air and reducing harmful emissions.It’s not that the idea is bad, but the execution has been poor and to be honest, I think Khan is lucky London has the demographic it does and a poor level of opposing candidates from the Tories to go up against (this latest one is probably one of the worst yet) as he would’ve been toast long ago.
For me, it’s an own goal of sorts and let’s the lunatic climate deniers dig their heels in
Anyway, this isn’t the ULEZ thread, but it does illustrate how some people are against anything being done to improve the environment if it disrupts or disadvantages them in any way. Yes, it’s unfair that less well off people are mostly affected, but the government should be ameliorating that as there are in every other city that has LEZ or ULEZ.I don’t agree with much of what you say about Khan btw. He acts on his convictions, which is unusual in this day and age. And I don’t think he only won because he’s Asian either.5 -
Ahhh the classic "Politics will be different". What a load of bollocks.0
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Not a chance. The Tories will cling to power in the hope that just like Mr. Micawber, “something turns up”. A snap election now would see them swept away. Who knows what the next year holds ? October 2024 is when we’ll get our chance to vote them out or in again.Chizz said:1 -
You seem very angry, but from where I'm sitting the generation below me has already taken over.GetYerCoreyOut said:
A lot of the "right we've fucked it for you, but were all in this together right? Anyways I wont be about for much longer.blackpool72 said:
Don't fall into the trap of old v young.GetYerCoreyOut said:Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.
It's a bit like blaming immigrants for everything.
Or the North ,South divide.
The real enemy is the super rich who avoid paying anywhere near what they should be contributing.
Hence 3% of the population owning about 97% of the wealth.
Politicians from all the major parties are to blame for this as nothing ever seems to get done to produce a more level playing field.
know your enemies It's not old v young.
There seems little improvement in this old world to me. There are currently 32 wars raging, women are still suppressed and treated as second class beings in many countries, crime figures are up everywhere and there is enough spite and malice passed through the internet to fill up thousands of data servers worldwide.
By and large countries across the world are doing a bit towards climate change, it isn't enough of course, it never is, but the bottom line is money and power. Hope you manage to change that. It is a right of passage as a man in your 20s to want that of course - I know I did!
Rishi Sunak is 43 years old - I'd guess a bit closer to your generation than mine. I sincerely hope that you and your compatriots can solve all these problems and make this World a better place. Forgive me if I don't hold my breath though.
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The moderators might be getting a bit twitchy, but I think we'll be alright, as long as we behave ourselves, do as we're told, and keep it civil. Not too much to ask really is it and easily done. Just Stop Oil 😉2
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So, will we be getting those many £100m's (£b's?) that the Tories have bribed industry to stay in the UK with back then? If they no longer need it to invest in gearing up towards net zero I'm sure we can use it to rebuild a few schools or something.
Jeez, all this because a few hundred muppets in Uxbridge, believing the bullshit memes on their Facebook, has given the Tories a wedge issue they think they can exploit for their own benefit.2 -
Seems highly unlikely however I think a couple of pundits have floated this possibility. I guess realistically we are looking this or next October or April / May. Personally I think they will go as long as they can, which means October 24.ShootersHillGuru said:
Not a chance. The Tories will cling to power in the hope that just like Mr. Micawber, “something turns up”. A snap election now would see them swept away. Who knows what the next year holds ? October 2024 is when we’ll get our chance to vote them out or in again.Chizz said:
However I wonder if this quite significant policy shift, coupled with a larger than expected fall in inflation, might tempt the idea of a bold snap election,
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I think the timing and purpose of this announcement is undoubtedly to create an issue that those on the right of the Tory party including its core support can rally around. Where I think this has gone spectacularly wrong for Sunak is that the general opinion of business seems to be one of horror. I find it hard to believe that Sunak didn’t run this by the motor industry and energy industry, although that seems to to be the MO of recent Tory governments. Disregard any opinion that’s worth listening to. Easy win for Starmer too. All he needs to say is that an incoming Labour government would talk to all interested parties and act after consulting with and listening to them. Win win.2
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However the King is in France1
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There is no being left behind here. It's entirely down to the corporate masses to act. Joe Public cannot and will not be the ones to change things.ME14addick said:Playing politics for votes whilst we are in the midst of a climate crisis is unforgivable. Investing in green technology is essential and the UK risks being left behind if we don't do it now.0 -
I think the statement issued by Ford U.K. makes it pretty clear how they view their own business planning. Likewise e.on. They’ll press ahead regardless and I think most of industry will do the same.Dazzler21 said:
There is no being left behind here. It's entirely down to the corporate masses to act. Joe Public cannot and will not be the ones to change things.ME14addick said:Playing politics for votes whilst we are in the midst of a climate crisis is unforgivable. Investing in green technology is essential and the UK risks being left behind if we don't do it now.2 -
I thought the corporates served public demand. One solution lies in reducing global energy demand, which will compromise our existing lifestyles, which is unacceptable to the public so won't happen. It's who we are.Dazzler21 said:
There is no being left behind here. It's entirely down to the corporate masses to act. Joe Public cannot and will not be the ones to change things.ME14addick said:Playing politics for votes whilst we are in the midst of a climate crisis is unforgivable. Investing in green technology is essential and the UK risks being left behind if we don't do it now.
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Lol people thinking one party will be better than the next. The political leaders don't care about us any more than their ability to tax us and grow future generations of taxable individuals.9
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I think this policy is a mistake when you look at polling numbers, over 70% of voters of all parties support the need for green policies. This is fishing around in the Reform party waters for voters which isn't going to win an election.2
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The cynic in me wonders what investments he and perhaps more importantly his wife have that will benefit from this. I think the vast majority of the Tory party know the game is up no matter what happens in the next year so anything done know is to further set themselves up personally for the future.ShootersHillGuru said:I think the timing and purpose of this announcement is undoubtedly to create an issue that those on the right of the Tory party including its core support can rally around. Where I think this has gone spectacularly wrong for Sunak is that the general opinion of business seems to be one of horror. I find it hard to believe that Sunak didn’t run this by the motor industry and energy industry, although that seems to to be the MO of recent Tory governments. Disregard any opinion that’s worth listening to. Easy win for Starmer too. All he needs to say is that an incoming Labour government would talk to all interested parties and act after consulting with and listening to them. Win win.0 -
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I think this falls down with the sentence “future generations”Dazzler21 said:Lol people thinking one party will be better than the next. The political leaders don't care about us any more than their ability to tax us and grow future generations of taxable individuals.0 -
Currently watching Chris Packham on Channel 4, recommend watching it.3
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I think, whatever spin he puts on it, Sunak's hand has been forced by the government's inaction during the past 4 years concerning the basics which need to be dealt with before the country is in a position to go "carbon neutral".
I just despair of this country's ability to put the cart before the horse.
Take, for example, the heating of buildings, be they domestic, public or commercial.
In this country, a high percentage of our buildings, including many built relatively recently, are currently unsuitable for conversion to heat pumps, either because they have insufficient levels of insulation, or because of current planning laws about where such a pump can be sited (not on the front of a property, not within a certain distance of a neighbouring property, restrictions applying to listed buildings, etc., etc.)
To me, it seems these issues must all be addressed before putting a deadline on fossil fuel boilers. Otherwise, whenever the deadline arrives there are going to be a lot of buildings which cannot be heated using heat pumps, for which the only alternative "non-carbon" energy source for heating will be will be electricity (assuming it is "green").
And where will this additional electricity come from? Nuclear power? Renewables? Potentially, although the speed of construction will need to have a rocket put under it - not only the windfarms, tidal power installations, hydroelectric sites, but also an upgraded National Grid to move it from where it is generated to where it is needed. Otherwise, power outages could become the norm.
Similar issues exist for electric cars / charging points, & phasing out of petrol & diesel cars. Delaying by 5 years cannot be an excuse for on-going delays in resolving infrastructure issues.
People also need frequent, reliable and affordable alternatives if they are to reduce car travel. Outside of London with its networks of tubes, train lines and bus routes, public transport is often inadequate on all of these criteria, or even non-existent. Awarding a new franchise to Avanti West Coast is a kick in the teeth for long-suffering rail users in the North West.9 -
Find a generation who has done more than ours then.GetYerCoreyOut said:Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.
As a late 40's taxpayer who has contributed more to alternative energy, which group has done more to fight climate change.
Easy to slag off others, but solar farms, wind, wave, tidal energy has been funded by me, not you.
Your tax contributions have done less than mine to combat climate change. Get off your shitty high horse.
Hoe many trees have you planted on the land you have bought with your earnings?
What have you done?
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I don’t think the post was aimed at 40 somethings like ourselvesMrWalker said:
Find a generation who has done more than ours then.GetYerCoreyOut said:Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.
As a late 40's taxpayer who has contributed more to alternative energy, which group has done more to fight climate change.
Easy to slagg off others, but solar farms, wind, wave, tidal energy has been funded by me, not you.0 -
That's OK then.Rothko said:
I don’t think the post was aimed at 40 somethings like ourselvesMrWalker said:
Find a generation who has done more than ours then.GetYerCoreyOut said:Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.
As a late 40's taxpayer who has contributed more to alternative energy, which group has done more to fight climate change.
Easy to slagg off others, but solar farms, wind, wave, tidal energy has been funded by me, not you.0 -
Plenty of lithium here: https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/mcdermitt-caldera-lithium-electric-car-b2410370.htmlswordfish said:
The demand for EV's is set to outstrip supply if it isn't already (I'm talking globally) Can't just magic the lithium for the batteries out of thin air. How much does it cost to extract in terms of energy and human resources? How much energy is used up in making hydrogen powered vehicles?Rothko said:and China is becoming a leader in EVs, and the more fucking around governments in the west do, the bigger that Chinese advantage will become
Although EV's and hydrogen powered vehicles are more energy efficient, is making them? Have to manage it so that the energy savings actually exceed what's needed to produce them, otherwise the medicine might worsen the patients condition.1 -
You OK, hun?MrWalker said:
Find a generation who has done more than ours then.GetYerCoreyOut said:Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.
As a late 40's taxpayer who has contributed more to alternative energy, which group has done more to fight climate change.
Easy to slag off others, but solar farms, wind, wave, tidal energy has been funded by me, not you.
Your tax contributions have done less than mine to combat climate change. Get off your shitty high horse.
Hoe many trees have you planted on the land you have bought with your earnings?
What the shitty fuck have you done?5 -
Does say the issue is refining it though, which is consistent with my commentEveshamAddick said:
Plenty of lithium here: https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/mcdermitt-caldera-lithium-electric-car-b2410370.htmlswordfish said:
The demand for EV's is set to outstrip supply if it isn't already (I'm talking globally) Can't just magic the lithium for the batteries out of thin air. How much does it cost to extract in terms of energy and human resources? How much energy is used up in making hydrogen powered vehicles?Rothko said:and China is becoming a leader in EVs, and the more fucking around governments in the west do, the bigger that Chinese advantage will become
Although EV's and hydrogen powered vehicles are more energy efficient, is making them? Have to manage it so that the energy savings actually exceed what's needed to produce them, otherwise the medicine might worsen the patients condition.
I do wonder if the heavier EV vehicles will increase demand for tyres, which will need more energy to produce, and how roads will hold up, increasing energy usage in repairing them.
I presume these potential consequences, and the energy used to extract the resources needed to produce EV's, are factored into calculating the net savings in energy consumption that justify the transition, so lessening overall CO2 emissions.
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As a 63 year old some of us have been having to live with them for, well, 63 years. Get in the queue.GetYerCoreyOut said:Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.0
