Climate Emergency

Braziliance

Just out of interest for all the fellow vegan Addicks. 

Does this make you change your stance on your diet?

I know a lot of vegans eat for the sake of the planet, with the planet being buggered anyway are you tempted to bin it off? 

Siv_in_Norfolk

It's not too late yet. The human race can be saved. There is hope. 

Plumstead_Micky

It's such a complex subject, but I think if we lived a bit more frugally (like we did about two generations ago) we'd be making a good start. Unfortunately that'll never be a vote winner. That's all about growth, growth, growth.

ShootersHillGuru

Plumstead_Micky said:

It's such a complex subject, but I think if we lived a bit more frugally (like we did about two generations ago) we'd be making a good start. Unfortunately that'll never be a vote winner. That's all about growth, growth, growth.

Packaging. It’s still insane that some of our consumables are packaged the way they are. 

Plumstead_Micky

ShootersHillGuru said:

Plumstead_Micky said:

It's such a complex subject, but I think if we lived a bit more frugally (like we did about two generations ago) we'd be making a good start. Unfortunately that'll never be a vote winner. That's all about growth, growth, growth.

Packaging. It’s still insane that some of our consumables are packaged the way they are. 

Totally agree.

KingKinsella

Well what are we going to do about it?

I find everything so hard to give up
- eat vegetarian- well sometimes- I hardly eat beef. But I do occassionally
-stop driving- I do bike it locally- even go to the Valley on the bike on a sunny day
-cut out flying- that's the hardest- I looked at Eurostar prices and they are horrendous
- fewer  children- too late I've got 4. On this point population explosion is less likely now as more educated/urbanised populations become the women use contraception and family sizes reduce  slowing population growth.
- heat pumps become ecomonic if you generate electric- my house is 100% wrong angle to generate solar unless price of panels halves ( currently down 20% due tax changes so not quite there) Also extensive alterations to an old property required (radiators/insulation).

I think a lot of the options that we have  are more expensive to be "green" eg Eurostar vs Flying. Aviation fuel is untaxed.
Government needs to be far more active in  making green options affordable.

PopIcon

ShootersHillGuru said:

Thing is, we’re the first and only species to inhabit the earth with the ability to make significant changes to our environment for both good and bad. In reality man is coming out of its infancy in terms of industrialisation and polluting. When it started, the Victorians gave no thought to burning coal or the use of chemicals. Now we know what those intervening years have done and have the ability to change what we do and we are. The question really is are we prepared to actually suffer to reverse that environmental damage. I don’t think we are. I’ve said it all along that it’s going to take an environmental catastrophe in one of the worlds major players like in the USA or Europe before we really wake up. Yes we can all play our small part but the people who can really make a difference are still looking at this as either political point scoring or in the main as a money spinning opportunity. 

Lots of other living things inhabit the planet and have a significant impact to the environment, algae and bovines are examples. The difference with homosapiens is a mix of free will and intelligence. 

Humans are incredibly selfish, all of us, most of it is instinctive and primal, it's part of our DNA. Humans have been described by many as the most successful animals to have inhabited on Earth. Creating language, exploring science and harnessing energy. Along the way we’ve over populated, exploited resources and done our best to quell freedom of speech. It’s all driven by greed. How is success measured? I think on the most basic level, it’s for a species to live long and adapt to changes in it’s environment. Look at the cockroach, they should be commended, they have existed with minimal evolution for 280 million years.

I’m not saying be more cockroach, just less human.

KingKinsella

https://climate.copernicus.eu/july-2023-global-air-and-ocean-temperatures-reach-new-record-highs

This is why the polar caps are melting. Look at the graph for this year sea temp- it's just gone off piste in a bad way.
I'm just on tipping point myself , I may vote Green for the first time when I get the chance. The others parties will make excuses for not changing.

swordfish

Siv_in_Norfolk said:

It's not too late yet. The human race can be saved. There is hope. 

I admire your optimism, but there's an increasingly large number, myself included, who don't share it. That is a huge problem in itself, humans having gone from ignorance and denial to realization and acceptance, many having now progressed into defeatism, action to combat it considered futile.

Measures to slow the effects need to be imposed on us now because relying on us to make voluntary decisions where we all do a little will achieve just that, a little.

However, how do humans respond to having others telling them what they can and can't do in your experience? It's in our nature to destroy ourselves, and I believe we will.

KingKinsella

Braziliance said:

Just out of interest for all the fellow vegan Addicks. 

Does this make you change your stance on your diet?

I know a lot of vegans eat for the sake of the planet, with the planet being buggered anyway are you tempted to bin it off? 

It tastes great- the hard bit is finding the recipes that you like and with all trial and error you get some duff ones ('turkeys" - hmmm see what I did there)

I don't rate a large % of what the supermarkets offer as  veg/vegan, so making your own is bit of an effort, also a change in the stuff you stock in the fridge/cupboards

If you are stuck where to start try Yotam Ottolenghi recipes- his books Plenty-Plenty More- Flavour-Simple all have veg/vegan dishes in them. Get them in the library or on-line. I'd go with Flavour and Simple as they are less complicated and more within my cooking abilities.

If you're loaded (£50/head for set meal/tasting menu)) I can recommend these Central London Restaurants
-Bobala
-Tendril
My son took me there as he hasn't been paying rent, these were both delicious food, tho I didn't have a clue what I was ordering because of all the fancy names.

Also tried Mallow- London Bridge- beautiful presentation but not as tasty imo.

JamesSeed

KingKinsella said:

https://climate.copernicus.eu/july-2023-global-air-and-ocean-temperatures-reach-new-record-highs

This is why the polar caps are melting. Look at the graph for this year sea temp- it's just gone off piste in a bad way.
I'm just on tipping point myself , I may vote Green for the first time when I get the chance. The others parties will make excuses for not changing.

Wasted vote unfortunately, without PR. 

KingKinsella

ShootersHillGuru said:

Thing is, we’re the first and only species to inhabit the earth with the ability to make significant changes to our environment for both good and bad. In reality man is coming out of its infancy in terms of industrialisation and polluting. When it started, the Victorians gave no thought to burning coal or the use of chemicals. Now we know what those intervening years have done and have the ability to change what we do and we are. The question really is are we prepared to actually suffer to reverse that environmental damage. I don’t think we are. I’ve said it all along that it’s going to take an environmental catastrophe in one of the worlds major players like in the USA or Europe before we really wake up. Yes we can all play our small part but the people who can really make a difference are still looking at this as either political point scoring or in the main as a money spinning opportunity. 

Agree-sadly. For example only one Republican candidate admitted that climate warming was  real in a recent hustings (out of 6 or 8 - sorry I'd have to look it up). Doesn't look like any of them will beat Trump- but he's the same-in denial.
All we can do is change ourselves(consumer habits) and if enough do then the companies  will have to change. Cut the politicians out of it. Its a slim chance but the only (or few) card(s) that can be played.

KingKinsella

JamesSeed said:

KingKinsella said:

https://climate.copernicus.eu/july-2023-global-air-and-ocean-temperatures-reach-new-record-highs

This is why the polar caps are melting. Look at the graph for this year sea temp- it's just gone off piste in a bad way.
I'm just on tipping point myself , I may vote Green for the first time when I get the chance. The others parties will make excuses for not changing.

Wasted vote unfortunately, without PR. 

Under first past the post , my vote has been wasted for 51 years.  That's for another thread

rananegra

The gulf stream is why the UK which is pretty much all north of the lower 48 has milder weather than say New York. If it switches off we can look forward to  weather akin to Newfoundland and Labrador.  It will also make it a lot more chaotic all across Europe and North America

JamesSeed

Rishi Sunak considering weakening key net zero policies https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66857551

ME14addick

JamesSeed said:

Rishi Sunak considering weakening key net zero policies https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66857551

He will do anything that might get him a few more votes, even if it is at the expense of the planet. The Tories promised not to water down environmental laws but they are are doing just that. 

kentaddick

JamesSeed said:

Rishi Sunak considering weakening key net zero policies https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66857551

Good old tories completely flying in the face of recent economic studies, too 

https://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-former/press-release/2023/09/08/net-zero-could-be-local-hero/

AddicksAddict

ParkinsonOut said:

What’s this got to do with Charlton? Should be in a different category

Do you want to be watching CA Football Club or CA Snorkelling Club in 20 years’ time? 

Darty Valiant

The world nations need to work together. Instead, they fight. I struggle to see how things will turn around.

Lots of people talking about climate change but little being done sadly. 

N01R4M

Karim_myBagheri said:

This I know is a incredibly stupid and naive thought... 

we have freezers that can produce ice and keep Ice. Could we not stick a large freezer in the arctic ocean (paid for by the oil and gas companies) to make the ocean cooler thus creating or sustaining the ice and keeping the waters temperature down. 

One problem (after the thousand others) how would you run the freezer? Need a lot of electricity...

Freezers don't "destroy" heat energy; they just move it from one place (the food inside) to somewhere else (the air in your kitchen), plus some extra heat derived from the electricity used to run it.  (Basic laws of thermodynamics.)  Your freezer actually warms your kitchen up - and would even if you left the freezer door open! - because of the energy used to run it.  On most free-standing fridge-freezers, you can see the black radiator panel on the back.

So where do you propose the heat extracted from the ocean by your giant freezer should be vented?  Into the atmosphere, where it will be trapped by the raised levels of carbon dioxide mankind has created?  Plus, of course the extra energy from running it?  Your "solution", even if you do solve the thousand other problems, would actually make the situation worse!

EveshamAddick

ME14addick said:

The loss of more sea ice is of great concern, as once started it is difficult to reverse. It has a huge impact on wildlife as well. 

Climate Change should be at the top of the agenda for all Governments, no country is safe from the effects. Saying that we can't afford it is no excuse, if money needs to be spent now to reduce our emissions, then that is money well spent. It's no good saying that we can't afford it and we will be leaving the monetary debt for future generations, as Climate Change will mean there are no future generations.

Still - looks like Rishi and the gang are going to water down our net zero targets so it’s all good…

valleynick66

EveshamAddick said:

ME14addick said:

The loss of more sea ice is of great concern, as once started it is difficult to reverse. It has a huge impact on wildlife as well. 

Climate Change should be at the top of the agenda for all Governments, no country is safe from the effects. Saying that we can't afford it is no excuse, if money needs to be spent now to reduce our emissions, then that is money well spent. It's no good saying that we can't afford it and we will be leaving the monetary debt for future generations, as Climate Change will mean there are no future generations.

Still - looks like Rishi and the gang are going to water down our net zero targets so it’s all good…

Academic if they don’t get re-elected. 

Rob

swordfish said:

Siv_in_Norfolk said:

It's not too late yet. The human race can be saved. There is hope. 

I admire your optimism, but there's an increasingly large number, myself included, who don't share it. That is a huge problem in itself, humans having gone from ignorance and denial to realization and acceptance, many having now progressed into defeatism, action to combat it considered futile.

Measures to slow the effects need to be imposed on us now because relying on us to make voluntary decisions where we all do a little will achieve just that, a little.

However, how do humans respond to having others telling them what they can and can't do in your experience? It's in our nature to destroy ourselves, and I believe we will.

I agree. It’s part of our DNA to think we know best (in the main). It’s called arrogance. 

N01R4M

Braziliance said:

Just out of interest for all the fellow vegan Addicks. 

Does this make you change your stance on your diet?

I know a lot of vegans eat for the sake of the planet, with the planet being buggered anyway are you tempted to bin it off? 

I'm a life-long vegetarian.  I would find the change to veganism very difficult, and I'm not convinced by the climate argument for doing so.  I do think it would be good all round, for health as well as climate reasons, if habitual meat-eaters reduced their intake by having one or two meat-free days a week.

As a vegetarian, I do eat eggs and dairy products, which obviously involves the farming of poultry and cows etc, but far fewer than would be needed if I ate meat.  In a future world which may use fewer oil-based products, such as polyester and other plastics, we may go back to using more of the by-products of these animals such as feather cushions, woollen carpets and clothes, and leather shoes.

If I became vegan, I would be buying plant-based substitutes for butter and cheese, most of which contain ingredients such as palm oil which when grown on an industrial scale are also harmful to the environment due to the destruction of tropical forests.  These substitutes also come under the heading of hyper-processed foods, the health implications of which are now being questioned.

Chizz

EveshamAddick said:

ME14addick said:

The loss of more sea ice is of great concern, as once started it is difficult to reverse. It has a huge impact on wildlife as well. 

Climate Change should be at the top of the agenda for all Governments, no country is safe from the effects. Saying that we can't afford it is no excuse, if money needs to be spent now to reduce our emissions, then that is money well spent. It's no good saying that we can't afford it and we will be leaving the monetary debt for future generations, as Climate Change will mean there are no future generations.

Still - looks like Rishi and the gang are going to water down our net zero targets so it’s all good…

And the water they're going to water it down with is full of sewage. 

Carter

JiMMy 85 said:

Carter said:

PopIcon said:

Humans by their very nature are greedy, we have an insatiable thirst to take and give very little.

We climbed down from the trees and began our journey 300,000 years ago, i think it's unlikely our journey will last another 300,000.

All mammals become extinct eventually, it's not something to be sad about. Had non avian dinosaurs not been destroyed, we would not be here.

Earth is a continuous flow of life and death. The ice age will end, the oceans will warm, the earth will cool and by then....the baton will have passed and not for the final time.

Those words whilst very true, scare the shit out of me, just the scale of time. The fa t that we live and exist on a big spinning rock that a few million (MILLION) years ago was inhabited by fascinating creatures but fascinating creatures from nightmares! Then recent history, I get overwhelmed thinking there are a few people alive who in this country have seen phenomenal change. Then the stories/theories of previous ancient civilisations long gone seem less hokum 

Interstellar, the Christopher Nolan film gives me these huge overwhelming thoughts, the fact that the universe is infinite, nah, I'm not someone who suffers fortunately from anxiety but that's the sort of shit to do it! 

We think of Charlton, in two years we will be 125 years old. Seems ancient, and it is old but its chicken feed and then you get these human minds who can harness that brute force scale and make amazing science fiction books, tv shows and films 

Dinosaurs lived on this planet for so long that many of them lived closer to us on the timeline than they did to each other!

Thanks for that! My rumbling feeling of utter inadequacy and inconsequence has hit me right in the digestive system

Valiantphil

ParkinsonOut said:

What’s this got to do with Charlton? Should be in a different category

London is drowning and I……
live by the river. 

Huskaris

We as a species won't act until we are right on the precipice. At that point, if anything works at all, it will be so unbelievably restrictive people will wish they did something sooner, and by that I mean future generations will wish previous generations did more. 

People struggle to get the concept of putting money away for their own retirement, we don't do delayed gratification, let alone making sure there will be a planet for all future individuals. Most would rather put some cash into a savings account for their grandchildren instead of cutting back on beef for the benefit of all. 

In short we are the only species on Earth intelligent enough to be able to cause this crisis through our historic innovations, but we aren't socially developed enough to come together to fix the problems those innovations have caused.

MuttleyCAFC

We have no chance. I think we might only have another 100 years and they are not going to be fun years. Politicians and indeed people in general look at what is in their interests and allow that to form their opinions. It is a weakness of human behaviour/nature that is going to kill us. I quote the title of a film that says it all, 'The Inconvenient Truth'. Apparently, as we are hearing today, Rishi Sunak thinks it is a vote winner to go back on green pledges, and whether he is right or wrong, the fact that he thinks it might be doesn't reflect that well on many of us.

ME14addick

Playing politics for votes whilst we are in the midst of a climate crisis is unforgivable. Investing in green technology is essential and the UK risks being left behind if we don't do it now.