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The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)
Comments
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I know. Sorry forgot the ;-)Covered End said:
They are all joking !JamesSeed said:
Apart from @AFKABartram lolCovered End said:
I've not seen anyone put the boot in.JamesSeed said:
Don't know what you mean by your first sentence. Sounds like you're saying all speculation is illogical.Covered End said:
Illogical conclusion or speculating on a particular outcome, when there literally could have been hundreds of reasons is just a difference in words to me.JamesSeed said:
Except that I started the sentence with 'Just my speculation' and my statement was sprinkled with 'ifs'. No one should take speculation as anything more than thinking out loud. I also posted: ' The timing might have been connected to the takeover, or it could have been prearranged. Of course he doesn’t need to be in the UK for the takeover to progress.'Covered End said:
Info is fine and welcomed.JamesSeed said:
You're probably right. Perhaps should keep info to myself in future.AFKABartram said:Promote removed, and the dogs are not getting fed this weekend. Be afraid @JamesSeed
The unfortunate jumping to illogical conclusions, is where you tripped up.
And it wasn't illogical, just turned out to be wrong. I also said he might be coming back in time for the an announcement in two weeks. That's probably wrong, but as it's a possibility it's not illogical.
This could of course be a great opportunity to stick the boot in if anyone wants to ;-)
Personally, I have no problem at all, because I thought your speculation was wide of the mark, but plenty of others didn't.
I think the point is that my speculation is no different from anyone elses's, and we're all allowed to speculate, as it's what forums are for.
To be honest, I had a feeling some would put the boot in if the announcement wasn't made today, no matter how many time I urged caution on this thread. It doesn't lead me to wonder if it's worth it.
And @blackpool72
And you, a bit.
Tbh, it's all part of the deal, and it's fine.
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Don't forget NLA has "Big Balls". Could he really be Roland?ShootersHillGuru said:
Has anybody ever seen Roland and nla in the same room ?The Red Robin said:http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/82138/duchatelet-speaks-part-1#latest
Roland would appear to agree with NLA.
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Well they said they've done their bit and believe it should happen.Davo55 said:As far as I can see @JamesSeed, you have put a lot of very good information on this forum and i for one (although there are many) applaud and appreciate that. The only speculation I can see is that an announcement might have been made today, which was derived from there fact that Andrew Muir had to fly back to Australia for a couple of weeks this weekend - and even then you did place a caveat on that speculation.
As I see it, the key facts (from James) are:
- the Aussies are 100% confident they have bought the club subject to EFL approval
- it's lock, stock and barrel - thanks to the ex-Directotrs who wouldn't agree a lease deal
- the papers are with the EFL for approval; no reason to think that won't be forthcoming
- they are considering both Bowyer and Powell for the manager role
I see no reason for any concern or doubt at this stage. I am 100% confident that we are going to have new Aussie owners within a couple of days of Muir's return to the UK, at the latest.3 -
Quite right, AFKA.AFKABartram said:Promote removed, and the dogs are not getting fed this weekend. Be afraid @JamesSeed
And to think @JamesSeed got 207 'Likes' for one post, which was late because he had to fill the dishwasher.
What would his grandfather think?
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I'd be very surprised if anything happens in the next 2 weeks with Muir our of the country, at least publicly. I can't think of any such takeovers where the announcement took place with the main investor not in the country.4
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ElfsborgAddick said:
I think the fellas scepticism is with the dragging on.daveydanger said:
Mate.. you don’t believe they have the money and that’s fine.nth london addick said:Another day gone another weekend gone another week gone
And still the aussies have not shown the money
Hmmmm
Although I’m not sure how you think a purchase on this scale happens? ‘Shown the money’ to who? Us?
Nobody is going to turn up with a bag of gold sovereigns, climb the statue of Sam Bartram and wave an Australian flag
I get his views.
I would suggest the only people that actually know definitively whether the Aussies have the requisite funds are Muir and Murphy themselves, possibly their lawyers, and maybe (although not definitely) Duchatelet.
The likelihood of any of these three sources divulging the information to some bloke on Charlton Life are slim to none.
Consider:
It is definitely in the Aussies’ interest that Duchâtelet thinks they are less wealthy than they possibly are.
It is in Duchatelet’s interest that all parties involved believe they are still in the running and nothing is complete.
It is in Duchâtelet’s nature to make out like he is the good guy in all this, and that we (the naughty, ungrateful fans) should be careful what we wish for.
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The longer it drags on the less I think it will be favourable for the fans.daveydanger said:ElfsborgAddick said:
I think the fellas scepticism is with the dragging on.daveydanger said:
Mate.. you don’t believe they have the money and that’s fine.nth london addick said:Another day gone another weekend gone another week gone
And still the aussies have not shown the money
Hmmmm
Although I’m not sure how you think a purchase on this scale happens? ‘Shown the money’ to who? Us?
Nobody is going to turn up with a bag of gold sovereigns, climb the statue of Sam Bartram and wave an Australian flag
I get his views.
I would suggest the only people that actually know definitively whether the Aussies have the requisite funds are Muir and Murphy themselves, possibly their lawyers, and maybe (although not definitely) Duchatelet.
The likelihood of any of these three sources divulging the information to some bloke on Charlton Life are slim to none.
Consider:
It is definitely in the Aussies’ interest that Duchâtelet thinks they are less wealthy than they possibly are.
It is in Duchatelet’s interest that all parties involved believe they are still in the running and nothing is complete.
It is in Duchâtelet’s nature to make out like he is the good guy in all this, and that we (the naughty, ungrateful fans) should be careful what we wish for.0 -
I don't know him from Charlton Life.daveydanger said:ElfsborgAddick said:
I think the fellas scepticism is with the dragging on.daveydanger said:
Mate.. you don’t believe they have the money and that’s fine.nth london addick said:Another day gone another weekend gone another week gone
And still the aussies have not shown the money
Hmmmm
Although I’m not sure how you think a purchase on this scale happens? ‘Shown the money’ to who? Us?
Nobody is going to turn up with a bag of gold sovereigns, climb the statue of Sam Bartram and wave an Australian flag
I get his views.
I would suggest the only people that actually know definitively whether the Aussies have the requisite funds are Muir and Murphy themselves, possibly their lawyers, and maybe (although not definitely) Duchatelet.
The likelihood of any of these three sources divulging the information to some bloke on Charlton Life are slim to none.
Consider:
It is definitely in the Aussies’ interest that Duchâtelet thinks they are less wealthy than they possibly are.
It is in Duchatelet’s interest that all parties involved believe they are still in the running and nothing is complete.
It is in Duchâtelet’s nature to make out like he is the good guy in all this, and that we (the naughty, ungrateful fans) should be careful what we wish for.
And if I'd asked my source if they had the requisite funds I'm fairly sure he would have told me. Why wouldn't he?
I didn't bother to ask because I assumed they have, and still do.
I think the point is that they want enough backing to give us a chance of making it to the Premier League. I don't believe NLA's contact is right when he says they can't even raise the £35m - £45m to buy the club. The fact that one or more of their backers needed to check up on a couple of issues doesn't mean that.
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Maybe the two investors mentioned are two new, additional investors who add even more to the war chest.JamesSeed said:
I don't know him from Charlton Life.daveydanger said:ElfsborgAddick said:
I think the fellas scepticism is with the dragging on.daveydanger said:
Mate.. you don’t believe they have the money and that’s fine.nth london addick said:Another day gone another weekend gone another week gone
And still the aussies have not shown the money
Hmmmm
Although I’m not sure how you think a purchase on this scale happens? ‘Shown the money’ to who? Us?
Nobody is going to turn up with a bag of gold sovereigns, climb the statue of Sam Bartram and wave an Australian flag
I get his views.
I would suggest the only people that actually know definitively whether the Aussies have the requisite funds are Muir and Murphy themselves, possibly their lawyers, and maybe (although not definitely) Duchatelet.
The likelihood of any of these three sources divulging the information to some bloke on Charlton Life are slim to none.
Consider:
It is definitely in the Aussies’ interest that Duchâtelet thinks they are less wealthy than they possibly are.
It is in Duchatelet’s interest that all parties involved believe they are still in the running and nothing is complete.
It is in Duchâtelet’s nature to make out like he is the good guy in all this, and that we (the naughty, ungrateful fans) should be careful what we wish for.
And if I'd asked my source if they had the requisite funds I'm fairly sure he would have told me. Why wouldn't he?
I didn't bother to ask because I assumed they have, and still do.
I think the point is that they want enough backing to give us a chance of making it to the Premier League. I don't believe NLA's contact is right when he says they can't even raise the £35m - £45m to buy the club. The fact that one or more of their backers needed to check up on a couple of issues doesn't mean that.5 - Sponsored links:
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I was actually referring to NLA being told that they don’t have the funds by some source (presumably within the club).JamesSeed said:
I don't know him from Charlton Life.daveydanger said:ElfsborgAddick said:
I think the fellas scepticism is with the dragging on.daveydanger said:
Mate.. you don’t believe they have the money and that’s fine.nth london addick said:Another day gone another weekend gone another week gone
And still the aussies have not shown the money
Hmmmm
Although I’m not sure how you think a purchase on this scale happens? ‘Shown the money’ to who? Us?
Nobody is going to turn up with a bag of gold sovereigns, climb the statue of Sam Bartram and wave an Australian flag
I get his views.
I would suggest the only people that actually know definitively whether the Aussies have the requisite funds are Muir and Murphy themselves, possibly their lawyers, and maybe (although not definitely) Duchatelet.
The likelihood of any of these three sources divulging the information to some bloke on Charlton Life are slim to none.
Consider:
It is definitely in the Aussies’ interest that Duchâtelet thinks they are less wealthy than they possibly are.
It is in Duchatelet’s interest that all parties involved believe they are still in the running and nothing is complete.
It is in Duchâtelet’s nature to make out like he is the good guy in all this, and that we (the naughty, ungrateful fans) should be careful what we wish for.
And if I'd asked my source if they had the requisite funds I'm fairly sure he would have told me. Why wouldn't he?
I didn't bother to ask because I assumed they have, and still do.
I think the point is that they want enough backing to give us a chance of making it to the Premier League. I don't believe NLA's contact is right when he says they can't even raise the £35m - £45m to buy the club. The fact that one or more of their backers needed to check up on a couple of issues doesn't mean that.
Although my point still stands - even if your source was Muir himself, he wouldn’t divulge financial specifics or issue any more proof than saying ‘yup, we have enough money’.1 -
So what ????? Just give it to those sticking the boot inJamesSeed said:
Blimey, we still have a large bowl of it still in the fridge. It was made exactly a week ago. Could it still be edible?catfordmorry said:
Not a BBC Addick, not even close.JamesSeed said:
There is some left. If you were a BBC Addick (Battersea, Balham, Clapham) you'd be close enough to take advantage. Just saying.catfordmorry said:
Thanks for all the information James.JamesSeed said:
No pot noodles on this occasion, although we do like to keep a pot handy for emergencies.HarryLime said:
I'm interested in the dinner party menu so if you can include that as well, I'm sick to death of all the pot noodle and pizza chat and want to hear about something a bit more sophisticated.JamesSeed said:Morning folks. I survived the dinner party, although Mrs D wasn't too pleased with my late arrival. She had to delay our guests, but I just about got the food ready thirty minutes later than planned. I was also a bit knackered after cycling 106kms as training for the Prostate Cancer UK ride on first of June.
So I'm about to sit down and write up my recollections of what was said last night (at the meeting, rather than at the dinner party).
I made sweet potato and chorizo soup the day before (just as well), and the main course featured a Waitrose cheat: Whole boned chicken with a sunblush tomato marinade. Served that with roast potatoes, baby carrots and French beans. Nothing very fancy I'm afraid.
While I was speaking with someone who's cousin met someone connected to the consortium, my wife was busy making raspberry fool and a very nice blueberry cheesecake type thing. Luckily enough some friends found five bottles of Pol Roget in their basement while having a clearout.
During the dinner I got into trouble when I was caught looking at my phone.
I've worked hard today to make up for being late. I've now been allowed out of the doghouse.
We've got some raspberry fool left if anyone wants to try some?
The most urgent matter that arises out of all this though is how do I get hold of a serving of the raspberry fool?
I'm having lunch with a CLer today, and he hasn't even mentioned it. Not doubt he'll slip it into the conversation when we're paying the bill. Should I take some with me maybe? Worried about it going off in the heat.
BooHoo no raspberry fool for me.
Ah, my GP sister-in-law has just told me the cream will have gone off :-(
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Goes without saying doesn't it?daveydanger said:
I was actually referring to NLA being told that they don’t have the funds by some source (presumably within the club).JamesSeed said:
I don't know him from Charlton Life.daveydanger said:ElfsborgAddick said:
I think the fellas scepticism is with the dragging on.daveydanger said:
Mate.. you don’t believe they have the money and that’s fine.nth london addick said:Another day gone another weekend gone another week gone
And still the aussies have not shown the money
Hmmmm
Although I’m not sure how you think a purchase on this scale happens? ‘Shown the money’ to who? Us?
Nobody is going to turn up with a bag of gold sovereigns, climb the statue of Sam Bartram and wave an Australian flag
I get his views.
I would suggest the only people that actually know definitively whether the Aussies have the requisite funds are Muir and Murphy themselves, possibly their lawyers, and maybe (although not definitely) Duchatelet.
The likelihood of any of these three sources divulging the information to some bloke on Charlton Life are slim to none.
Consider:
It is definitely in the Aussies’ interest that Duchâtelet thinks they are less wealthy than they possibly are.
It is in Duchatelet’s interest that all parties involved believe they are still in the running and nothing is complete.
It is in Duchâtelet’s nature to make out like he is the good guy in all this, and that we (the naughty, ungrateful fans) should be careful what we wish for.
And if I'd asked my source if they had the requisite funds I'm fairly sure he would have told me. Why wouldn't he?
I didn't bother to ask because I assumed they have, and still do.
I think the point is that they want enough backing to give us a chance of making it to the Premier League. I don't believe NLA's contact is right when he says they can't even raise the £35m - £45m to buy the club. The fact that one or more of their backers needed to check up on a couple of issues doesn't mean that.
Although my point still stands - even if your source was Muir himself, he wouldn’t divulge financial specifics or issue any more proof than saying ‘yup, we have enough money’.0 -
You sister in law is a Guinea Pig??JamesSeed said:
Blimey, we still have a large bowl of it still in the fridge. It was made exactly a week ago. Could it still be edible?catfordmorry said:
Not a BBC Addick, not even close.JamesSeed said:
There is some left. If you were a BBC Addick (Battersea, Balham, Clapham) you'd be close enough to take advantage. Just saying.catfordmorry said:
Thanks for all the information James.JamesSeed said:
No pot noodles on this occasion, although we do like to keep a pot handy for emergencies.HarryLime said:
I'm interested in the dinner party menu so if you can include that as well, I'm sick to death of all the pot noodle and pizza chat and want to hear about something a bit more sophisticated.JamesSeed said:Morning folks. I survived the dinner party, although Mrs D wasn't too pleased with my late arrival. She had to delay our guests, but I just about got the food ready thirty minutes later than planned. I was also a bit knackered after cycling 106kms as training for the Prostate Cancer UK ride on first of June.
So I'm about to sit down and write up my recollections of what was said last night (at the meeting, rather than at the dinner party).
I made sweet potato and chorizo soup the day before (just as well), and the main course featured a Waitrose cheat: Whole boned chicken with a sunblush tomato marinade. Served that with roast potatoes, baby carrots and French beans. Nothing very fancy I'm afraid.
While I was speaking with someone who's cousin met someone connected to the consortium, my wife was busy making raspberry fool and a very nice blueberry cheesecake type thing. Luckily enough some friends found five bottles of Pol Roget in their basement while having a clearout.
During the dinner I got into trouble when I was caught looking at my phone.
I've worked hard today to make up for being late. I've now been allowed out of the doghouse.
We've got some raspberry fool left if anyone wants to try some?
The most urgent matter that arises out of all this though is how do I get hold of a serving of the raspberry fool?
I'm having lunch with a CLer today, and he hasn't even mentioned it. Not doubt he'll slip it into the conversation when we're paying the bill. Should I take some with me maybe? Worried about it going off in the heat.
BooHoo no raspberry fool for me.
Ah, my GP sister-in-law has just told me the cream will have gone off :-(
I know such a childish joke(I have had a few)1 -
Well yeah, so the idea that the Aussies would ‘show the money’ (see NLA’s comment) in such a way that anyone on here would have any special insight as to what they can or can’t afford.. is unlikely.JamesSeed said:
Goes without saying doesn't it?daveydanger said:
I was actually referring to NLA being told that they don’t have the funds by some source (presumably within the club).JamesSeed said:
I don't know him from Charlton Life.daveydanger said:ElfsborgAddick said:
I think the fellas scepticism is with the dragging on.daveydanger said:
Mate.. you don’t believe they have the money and that’s fine.nth london addick said:Another day gone another weekend gone another week gone
And still the aussies have not shown the money
Hmmmm
Although I’m not sure how you think a purchase on this scale happens? ‘Shown the money’ to who? Us?
Nobody is going to turn up with a bag of gold sovereigns, climb the statue of Sam Bartram and wave an Australian flag
I get his views.
I would suggest the only people that actually know definitively whether the Aussies have the requisite funds are Muir and Murphy themselves, possibly their lawyers, and maybe (although not definitely) Duchatelet.
The likelihood of any of these three sources divulging the information to some bloke on Charlton Life are slim to none.
Consider:
It is definitely in the Aussies’ interest that Duchâtelet thinks they are less wealthy than they possibly are.
It is in Duchatelet’s interest that all parties involved believe they are still in the running and nothing is complete.
It is in Duchâtelet’s nature to make out like he is the good guy in all this, and that we (the naughty, ungrateful fans) should be careful what we wish for.
And if I'd asked my source if they had the requisite funds I'm fairly sure he would have told me. Why wouldn't he?
I didn't bother to ask because I assumed they have, and still do.
I think the point is that they want enough backing to give us a chance of making it to the Premier League. I don't believe NLA's contact is right when he says they can't even raise the £35m - £45m to buy the club. The fact that one or more of their backers needed to check up on a couple of issues doesn't mean that.
Although my point still stands - even if your source was Muir himself, he wouldn’t divulge financial specifics or issue any more proof than saying ‘yup, we have enough money’.
Think you’re getting your wires crossed.. I haven’t disagreed with anything you’ve said or even referred to your posts.
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That is the biggest problem I have with this (and the other) thread. Why does @nth london addick source keep insisting that the Aussies don’t have the money? It’s almost as if it’s coming directly from RD’s poisonous mouth to be honest with you.daveydanger said:
Well yeah, so the idea that the Aussies would ‘show the money’ (see NLA’s comment) in such a way that anyone on here would have any special insight as to what they can or can’t afford.. is unlikely.JamesSeed said:
Goes without saying doesn't it?daveydanger said:
I was actually referring to NLA being told that they don’t have the funds by some source (presumably within the club).JamesSeed said:
I don't know him from Charlton Life.daveydanger said:ElfsborgAddick said:
I think the fellas scepticism is with the dragging on.daveydanger said:
Mate.. you don’t believe they have the money and that’s fine.nth london addick said:Another day gone another weekend gone another week gone
And still the aussies have not shown the money
Hmmmm
Although I’m not sure how you think a purchase on this scale happens? ‘Shown the money’ to who? Us?
Nobody is going to turn up with a bag of gold sovereigns, climb the statue of Sam Bartram and wave an Australian flag
I get his views.
I would suggest the only people that actually know definitively whether the Aussies have the requisite funds are Muir and Murphy themselves, possibly their lawyers, and maybe (although not definitely) Duchatelet.
The likelihood of any of these three sources divulging the information to some bloke on Charlton Life are slim to none.
Consider:
It is definitely in the Aussies’ interest that Duchâtelet thinks they are less wealthy than they possibly are.
It is in Duchatelet’s interest that all parties involved believe they are still in the running and nothing is complete.
It is in Duchâtelet’s nature to make out like he is the good guy in all this, and that we (the naughty, ungrateful fans) should be careful what we wish for.
And if I'd asked my source if they had the requisite funds I'm fairly sure he would have told me. Why wouldn't he?
I didn't bother to ask because I assumed they have, and still do.
I think the point is that they want enough backing to give us a chance of making it to the Premier League. I don't believe NLA's contact is right when he says they can't even raise the £35m - £45m to buy the club. The fact that one or more of their backers needed to check up on a couple of issues doesn't mean that.
Although my point still stands - even if your source was Muir himself, he wouldn’t divulge financial specifics or issue any more proof than saying ‘yup, we have enough money’.
Think you’re getting your wires crossed.. I haven’t disagreed with anything you’ve said or even referred to your posts.
If I were a betting man I’d say that this information is coming from one of the 4 former directors (including RM) who were happy to let RD retain leasehold of the Valley and is now bitter that it didn’t happen thanks to the 3 who put their foot down.
Of course I may be wrong.8 -
I don't believe I've ever had the pleasure of meeting JS yet but I have no doubt that he is an honest, genuine guy who has the best interests of our football club in his heart....and his head.
We've all read his posts since he joined CL and he usually makes a great deal of sense ( until he mentions his heritage!) so why would he share at some length, the conversation he clearly had with someone close to the investors if he thought he was being suckered ? This person wasn't someone he'd just met but an old acquaintance whose word he had no reason to disbelieve.
JS could have kept the information that was shared with him to himself....but he's not that kind of guy. He knew how desperate his fellow Lifers were for positive news , indeed straight from the horse's mouth in this instance, and he decided he could not keep this to himself.
I for one thank him. I totally believe what he has related to us on here. And it's time to give him a break as he approaches the final days of his gruelling training regime. All power to your legs, JS !
You certainly know how to make an old gal very happy !34 -
As I've read it that's a great summary. Thank youDavo55 said:As far as I can see @JamesSeed, you have put a lot of very good information on this forum and i for one (although there are many) applaud and appreciate that. The only speculation I can see is that an announcement might have been made today, which was derived from there fact that Andrew Muir had to fly back to Australia for a couple of weeks this weekend - and even then you did place a caveat on that speculation.
As I see it, the key facts (from James) are:
- the Aussies are 100% confident they have bought the club subject to EFL approval
- it's lock, stock and barrel - thanks to the ex-Directotrs who wouldn't agree a lease deal
- the papers are with the EFL for approval; no reason to think that won't be forthcoming
- they are considering both Bowyer and Powell for the manager role
I see no reason for any concern or doubt at this stage. I am 100% confident that we are going to have new Aussie owners within a couple of days of Muir's return to the UK, at the latest.
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I’d better update the prediction thread.
Again.
I’ll think I’m becoming 3blokes.1 -
Duchatelet, like Meire is a liar. I wouldn't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth. Look at the rest of the interview, it's all bullshit.The Red Robin said:http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/82138/duchatelet-speaks-part-1#latest
Roland would appear to agree with NLA.7 -
I reckon @Redhenry is just sorting out his top trumps....4
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Thanks FF, you’re too kind.Fanny Fanackapan said:I don't believe I've ever had the pleasure of meeting JS yet but I have no doubt that he is an honest, genuine guy who has the best interests of our football club in his heart....and his head.
We've all read his posts since he joined CL and he usually makes a great deal of sense ( until he mentions his heritage!) so why would he share at some length, the conversation he clearly had with someone close to the investors if he thought he was being suckered ? This person wasn't someone he'd just met but an old acquaintance whose word he had no reason to disbelieve.
JS could have kept the information that was shared with him to himself....but he's not that kind of guy. He knew how desperate his fellow Lifers were for positive news , indeed straight from the horse's mouth in this instance, and he decided he could not keep this to himself.
I for one thank him. I totally believe what he has related to us on here. And it's time to give him a break as he approaches the final days of his gruelling training regime. All power to your legs, JS !
You certainly know how to make an old gal very happy !
People here have been absolutely fine on the whole. We’re all going a little crazy waiting for this sale to happen, me included.
Let’s hope it’s soon.2 -
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It’s all back to my plaice for some raspberry fool.1
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Two pages worth of dross after this and I don’t get at all what’s happening. Duchâtelet says to ROT that he is looking to sell complete. That’s good.nth london addick said:Another day gone another weekend gone another week gone
And still the aussies have not shown the money
Hmmmm
Duchâtelet says to ROT that there are still two parties in play.
Duchâtelet is a proven liar so dispose the fact this is from the man who owns the club’s own mouth, we can’t believe him.
@JamesSeed chats to someone closely involved with a consortium which appears to contain Andre Muir and everyone gets a bit excited based on a bidder’s view.
NLA represent fairly strongly that the Aussies do not and have never had the cash to buy, until an ownership and control structure is agreed EFL can not approve.
I have a four figure sum I have failed to spend this evening on either drugs or ladies of negotiable virtue this evening, will this tip the balance. Getting even more annoyed now.2
This discussion has been closed.
