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13 Novembre attacks in Paris
Comments
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In the short term, you can't because the murderers are so strong in their belief that their views are the right ones and everyone else is wrong. In the long term the tendency is towards moderation because wholesale murdering of people is not sustainable. For example, 500 years ago it was seen acceptable to put people to death for not agreeing with the 'right' version of christianity in this country, now the CoE is the definition of moderation.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:It's unprecedented with these ****s. Most terrorist groups have historically had certain aims that facilitate some form of negotiation. Not the case with this mob. Cannot see how it all ends. Their ultimate aim seems to be world domination of their warped ideology or settling for some kind of worldwide religous war turning muslims v all non muslims and vice versa.
How the feck do you deal or negotiate with that and stop the brainwashing of these freaks.
However, human nature suggests that there will always be some power mad despot willing to fill that void of hatred, not just in name of religion (just look at N Korea or China). There will always be people who want power and glory and use hate to drive it. And you can see lesser examples of this on a daily basis. The internet discussion boards are full of people spouting hatred and looking to bully others to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. They may not be killing each other, but the mechanisms are the same. Even, dare I say, on CL you can find examples of this.
My point though, is that this sadly seems part of human nature, has always been so, and maybe always will. The world is no worse now, the main difference is the speed of reporting.9 -
We are supposedly the most intelligent form of life on the planet, and yet seem intent on self destruction due to strange beliefs, religions etc. How stupid. RIP to the victims : (12
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.........is the fight for oil and power religion driven?up_the_valley said:We are supposedly the most intelligent form of life on the planet, and yet seem intent on self destruction due to strange beliefs, religions etc. How stupid. RIP to the victims : (
I agree with your sentiments 100% and every human being I know could never understand how one human being could treat another with such hatred and horror, however, in reality, these zealots are 100% intent on destroying the infidel and will not be stopped.
The power struggle is an even bigger issue as they are killing many, many more fellow muslims than they are Christians or other non muslims.
No political point scoring here, I promise you but we disturbed the hornets nest once too often after Bush/Blair's actions and now the really angry hornets are on the attack.
I have to admit to having had a tear in my eye all night as these poor victims are the innocent children, brothers, sisters, husbands and wives of people like us - people who know no hatred.1 -
On hols in Florida at the moment, in the last 5 days I have seen one police car. Walking back from dinner tonight I saw 5 in 10 minutes. There are also police helicopters buzzing around and officers walking on i-drive.
A normal Friday night in Orlando, a show of strength or a perceived threat? Who knows.
Very odd atmosphere in the resturant tonight. Americans know the pain associated with these attacks and Paris has clearly opened some wounds.
The whole thing is almost incomprehensible.
RIP to all the dead.1 -
Most of these people are living in the countries where they commit these atrocities, and i dare say many have never even visited their home lands. They are simply sick in the head, and as far as i know do not shout 'oil and power' before blowing people up.purdis said:
.........is the fight for oil and power religion driven?up_the_valley said:We are supposedly the most intelligent form of life on the planet, and yet seem intent on self destruction due to strange beliefs, religions etc. How stupid. RIP to the victims : (
I agree with your sentiments 100% and every human being I know could never understand how one human being could treat another with such hatred and horror, however, in reality, these zealots are 100% intent on destroying the infidel and will not be stopped.
The power struggle is an even bigger issue as they are killing many, many more fellow muslims than they are Christians or other non muslims.
No political point scoring here, I promise you but we disturbed the hornets nest once too often after Bush/Blair's actions and now the really angry hornets are on the attack.
I have to admit to having had a tear in my eye all night as these poor victims are the innocent children, brothers, sisters, husbands and wives of people like us - people who know no hatred.1 -
The problem is they don't consider them 'fellow' Muslims, you're with them, or against them.purdis said:
The power struggle is an even bigger issue as they are killing many, many more fellow muslims than they are Christians or other non muslims.up_the_valley said:We are supposedly the most intelligent form of life on the planet, and yet seem intent on self destruction due to strange beliefs, religions etc. How stupid. RIP to the victims : (
No political point scoring here, I promise you but we disturbed the hornets nest once too often after Bush/Blair's actions and now the really angry hornets are on the attack.3 -
Europe is at war and the situation will continue to get far worse whilst we go out of our way to appease the enemy and bury our heads in the sand and pretend it's only because the poor kids don't have jobs etc. The left side of politics and all the Human Rights lawyers etc need to pull their collective heads in, and stop endangering our citizens. Where strong intelligence exists, any suspected terrorist has to be removed from society and locked up. The goal of these people is to introduce Sharia Law and it is already happening in England. Hundreds of ISIS "soldiers" infiltrated the thousands of innocent refugees, and are now amongst us, plotting further atrocities. As AFKA correctly said, there are millions of Muslims, including my wife, who hate what's happening. But according to Mohammed they are not true Muslims because they are not strictly adhering to his teachings, the terrorists are. I lived in a Muslim country for five years, worked with Muslims, befriended Muslims, married a Muslim. I have nothing against Muslim people who do not strictly adhere to the Koran. But until such time that the Koran is rewritten to reflect the modern day, things will only get worse. This situation can only be solved by Muslim's themselves, do they want to solve it, or are they happy for the UK and Europe to live under Sharia law ? Unfortunately, I think I already know the answer.
RIP to all the innocent souls so needlessly slaughtered, my heart bleeds for their relatives and friends today.18 -
I was trying to point out what unleashed this anger, this sickness, as you rightly describe it, in the first place.up_the_valley said:
Most of these people are living in the countries where they commit these atrocities, and i dare say many have never even visited their home lands. They are simply sick in the head, and as far as i know do not shout 'oil and power' before blowing people up.purdis said:
.........is the fight for oil and power religion driven?up_the_valley said:We are supposedly the most intelligent form of life on the planet, and yet seem intent on self destruction due to strange beliefs, religions etc. How stupid. RIP to the victims : (
I agree with your sentiments 100% and every human being I know could never understand how one human being could treat another with such hatred and horror, however, in reality, these zealots are 100% intent on destroying the infidel and will not be stopped.
The power struggle is an even bigger issue as they are killing many, many more fellow muslims than they are Christians or other non muslims.
No political point scoring here, I promise you but we disturbed the hornets nest once too often after Bush/Blair's actions and now the really angry hornets are on the attack.
I have to admit to having had a tear in my eye all night as these poor victims are the innocent children, brothers, sisters, husbands and wives of people like us - people who know no hatred.
I agree with you that they are already living within our communities and in many cases hold the passport of the country they are attacking.
My concern, like many, is that they are not only being and have been stirred up by misguided clerics and hate pedlars in their own neighbourhoods but that many more may have infiltrated our communities and continue to do so as they either return from abroad having been trained and further indoctrinated or posing as refugees.
I think Queensland Addick's summary above says what I was trying to say much better!
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http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/01/religion-of-peace-is-not-a-harmless-platitude/
Terrible events, but please let's not trot out such platitudes that 'Islam is a religion of peace' or 'these killings have nothing to do with religion' because it clearly isn't and they clearly do. Thankfully the vast majority of Muslims live peacefully and want to buy in to the western culture that they choose to live in. No right minded, tolerant person can have a problem with such people. But likewise it is crazy to ignore the fact that there is a sizeable element, living amongst us, who are intent on bringing down our way of life and culture. The racist card is casually played in order to stifle debate and free speech. Sadly I feel we are sleep walking into a nightmare, and it is only a matter of time until such atrocities are happening here.14 - Sponsored links:
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No. Confirmed as a Muslim extremist attack. They're not real Muslims.Red_in_SE8 said:
Here is a bit of news. It is a confirmed Muslim terrorist attack.Charltonparklane said:Lets keep the religious shit out of this, happens every time there is a terrorist attack, keep it to news and reports in my opinion.
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We need to remember It's not all Muslims it's purely the extremist community and isis. The vast majority of Muslims are peaceful so don't go tarring the community with the same brush.
Christians and Catholics can hardly say a thing, their history shows they both once had equally bloodthirsty extremists themselves.10 -
Is it time we prevented muslims from entering the country? - especially those with links to syria.3
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My parents are currently out there, staying in the 17th district, they are safe and we'll but have been advised to stay indoors. Thankfully they managed to do most of their sightseeing yesterday before the attacks.
Touching to see places around the world lit up in the french colours, do you think the international friendly will now be cancelled?0 -
What a load of rubbish.Dazzler21 said:
No. Confirmed as a Muslim extremist attack. They're not real Muslims.Red_in_SE8 said:
Here is a bit of news. It is a confirmed Muslim terrorist attack.Charltonparklane said:Lets keep the religious shit out of this, happens every time there is a terrorist attack, keep it to news and reports in my opinion.
They are Muslims.
Where those involved in terrorist attacks in N.Ireland not real Catholics or real Prtotestants?
Are they not real Jews or Palestinians killing each other in the Middle East ?
Perhaps we can say the crusades were not real Christians.7 -
I can't express my sorrow and anger at the killings and injuries committed last night better than many of those people who have posted already.
These disgusting criminals are trying to divide us. The reaction they want is an outpouring of hatred and fear. It's very sad to see, therefore, so many people, in various social media sites, falling into this trap. Blaming "Muslims" for this is like blaming the Pope for IRA bombings. Pointless and wrong. Anti-Islamic rhetoric is as stupid as it is unhelpful.
Europe isn't "at war" - comments like that are unhelpful. Many people alive today can confirm the fear, isolation and personal restrictions imposed when we *were* at war. It's nothing like that now. If you think we *are* at war, then stay home tonight after dark, continue being fearful and spread your contempt for fellow humans (as unsuccessfully as possible).
However, I'm going to do exactly what these evil terrorists don't want me to do. I'm going to carry on. I'm going to keep going to restaurants, concerts and football matches. I'm going to look for the best in people, find people to get on with and search for the things that being us together, not hunt for the things that divide us.
Football supporters died last night. Restaurant-goers died last night. Music fans died last night. The temporary hatred that's been flamed isn't going to stop me enjoying football, food and music. And enjoying the company of everyone - whatever their background - who shares that enjoyment.10 -
There is no words that can explain how sad and angry I feel that my children will never know what a free world will feel like
These scum their supporters those on social media who are currently laughing and posting words of support to them need to exterminated from this world
God bless all who have been affected by this terrible attack
I urge all leaders of the west to wipe isis off the map, attack those with a furious and extremely aggressive show of strength5 -
But that was then, this is now.superchrissypowell said:Is it time we prevented muslims from entering the country? - especially those with links to syria.
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Dazzler, if you have the time, have a read of this excellent book. It's a free download pdf. Essential reading for anyone who wants to understand why these extremists are carrying out these atrocities.Dazzler21 said:
No. Confirmed as a Muslim extremist attack. They're not real Muslims.Red_in_SE8 said:
Here is a bit of news. It is a confirmed Muslim terrorist attack.Charltonparklane said:Lets keep the religious shit out of this, happens every time there is a terrorist attack, keep it to news and reports in my opinion.
http://thestoryofmohammed.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/introduction_29.html0 -
Nosuperchrissypowell said:Is it time we prevented muslims from entering the country? - especially those with links to syria.
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Eight attackers in total. We regularly hear of people arrested here under the prevention of terrorism act and it is comforting that this is the case. Whilst it is, of course, impossible to stop all such attacks, there was some criticism of the French security services following Charlie Hebdo as highlighted in this article by Dr Frank Foley in an article back in January:
On three occasions since 2012, jihadists known to the French authorities have slipped through the net to commit terrorist attacks. Two of perpetrators of last week’s attacks were not only on France’s intelligence radar, but they had also been convicted of terrorism-related offences and had served prison sentences.
n May of last year, French citizen Mehdi Nemmouche killed four people at a Jewish museum in Brussels. French intelligence knew that he had gone to fight in Syria and had returned to Europe – but they were unable to help their Belgian counterparts stop this attack.
France’s domestic intelligence agency also knew of and interviewed French citizen Mohamed Merah, suspicious about his extremist tendencies and travels in Afghanistan and Pakistan. However, in a series of attacks in March 2012, Merah evaded detection as he killed three off-duty French soldiers at various locations, as well as a rabbi and three children at a Jewish school.
All intelligence agencies have to make difficult choices about which individuals to prioritise for intrusive surveillance from the potentially thousands of people that could be suspected of involvement in terrorist networks. All have made mistakes, including the British in the case of London bomber Mohammed Siddique Khan.
But in the case of France, there is a strong rivalry between its main counterterrorist police and intelligence units, which does not help matters. Indeed, the French agencies’ failure to share promptly their information on Merah was likely an important factor in their failure to prevent his final and most deadly attack. It remains to be seen whether such breakdowns in communication were present in the case of last week’s attacks.
My book, which compares French and British counterterrorism, shows that France’s security agency rivalries are deeply entrenched, in contrast to the British case, where police and intelligence agencies have a much better functioning relationship on terrorism investigations.
I would hate to think that any of these eight terrorists were known to the French authorities. And that they did little to monitor them. Because there is a likelihood that monitoring one of the terrorists will lead you to the rest of them.0 -
Shocking events, and deeply worrying to think this may happen here eventually
This ISIS thing needs to be brought to a rapid conclusion1 -
In my opinion, if anyone (including british citezens) has travelled to turkey, syria or the middle east, they should not be allowed to return to the UK. We need to try and prevent radicalisation and training of these monsters. Our security services are brilliant and are working at 100% capacity, they will not stop every attack. We need to do something to restrict people in the UK that are capable of such barbaric acts.3
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Although I understand your sentiment, these will more than likely turn out to be French citizens0
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I totally agree. My point is that the less people in this country with terroist links, the more time our security services have in order to watch the other bastards already on our soil.nth london addick said:Although I understand your sentiment, these will more than likely turn out to be French citizens
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That's me exiled then, seeing as I went to Turkey on holiday in September...superchrissypowell said:In my opinion, if anyone (including british citezens) has travelled to turkey, syria or the middle east, they should not be allowed to return to the UK. We need to try and prevent radicalisation and training of these monsters. Our security services are brilliant and are working at 100% capacity, they will not stop every attack. We need to do something to restrict people in the UK that are capable of such barbaric acts.
RIP all innocent people of whatever race or religion caught up in these atrocities.
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I've been to turkey and often travel to the Middle East. In fact I'm off there tonight, where should I go when I want to come back? Which country should I adopt as home?superchrissypowell said:In my opinion, if anyone (including british citezens) has travelled to turkey, syria or the middle east, they should not be allowed to return to the UK. We need to try and prevent radicalisation and training of these monsters. Our security services are brilliant and are working at 100% capacity, they will not stop every attack. We need to do something to restrict people in the UK that are capable of such barbaric acts.
Or is your version of 'anyone' different to mine?5 -
So British holiday makers in Turkey should be prevented from coming home? Where should they go instead?superchrissypowell said:In my opinion, if anyone (including british citezens) has travelled to turkey, syria or the middle east, they should not be allowed to return to the UK. We need to try and prevent radicalisation and training of these monsters. Our security services are brilliant and are working at 100% capacity, they will not stop every attack. We need to do something to restrict people in the UK that are capable of such barbaric acts.
Diplomats in Syria should be turned away if they try to return to Heathrow?
Any business, holiday, sports or religious travellers in Dubai, Abu Dhabi or Bahrain are excluded?
The whole England cricket squad and support staff can't come home from the current tour?
Have you thought this through?3 -
Thats next years holiday in Dalaman fecked then!superchrissypowell said:In my opinion, if anyone (including british citezens) has travelled to turkey, syria or the middle east, they should not be allowed to return to the UK. We need to try and prevent radicalisation and training of these monsters. Our security services are brilliant and are working at 100% capacity, they will not stop every attack. We need to do something to restrict people in the UK that are capable of such barbaric acts.
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So all those British citizens who holiday in Sharm El Sheik or Eilat, work in Dubai etc shouldn't be allowed back? Don't be a numpty.superchrissypowell said:In my opinion, if anyone (including british citezens) has travelled to turkey, syria or the middle east, they should not be allowed to return to the UK. We need to try and prevent radicalisation and training of these monsters. Our security services are brilliant and are working at 100% capacity, they will not stop every attack. We need to do something to restrict people in the UK that are capable of such barbaric acts.
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