We haven't looked great across all of our games. Apart from spells in the Bolton game we seemed to be grinding out results without playing particularly well. Before the last couple of defeats we would use the fact that our defence looked solid to fall back on, that's out of the window now.
I don't want Jones sacked at this early stage, but if we keep losing by the time we hit November he might be on thin ice at that point.
I was surprised when Small was yanked off after 30 minutes, as NJ seems to like keeping players on long after they have shown they are out of their depth, or knackered. But Small for me has been a fizzle this year. Looks tricky with the ball at his feet, has a good turn of pace, but is just as likely to step on the ball and fall over, or run down a cul de sac and deliver a woeful chip into the keepers arms. Like a lot of our players, we seem to be great at putting out players who can only do it in one or two games out of every five.
Exactly, timid and lacking confidence, but how has that mindset taken hold so quickly after our strong start? We now have a full strength squad too, which we have not had at this stage for years. We forget how unlucky Holden was this time last season re injuries. Not saying he would have come good, but at least good enough to avoid Appleton.
The big thing is and I expect most if not everybody on here felt the same is that when I saw the team I expected a lack of chances. It is then a question on whether your opponents score and they did or not. To me, with the system we have we have Small and Ramsay who are our best wing backs and we need to find a way to get the most out of them. They both have above average pace and physicality. Then we have to accept that T Campbell does not know how to play the striker role whist he does have attributes and Ahadme looks like a dud signing.
Watson and Edun were terrible last season. Feeble and weak is how I would describe them. If in position, Watson can put in a decent ball so I accept him as a squad player but to start him when we don't have injuries. What was Jones thinking? He gets out of position too easily and is weak when balls are played in. And when Jones apologises at the end of the game, it doesn'tmake me feel any better as I expected what I got so that doesn't fill you with confidence. And I expect similar going forwards! THis is a manger who got the defence right and messed about with it FFS!
We say we need a creative midfielder. Well yes, but we can get away with a hard working one and have one player in the side who can deliver set pieces and have starting strikers who can give defenders something to worry about. Is it true that we don't have that? Godden knows his position and Leaburn is fit. Those should be our starting forwards on Saturday and if we are going to take a risk, surely Taylor for his delivery is a sensible one. He did have a reputation for being hard working to before he came here. Who expects Jones to make these sorts of sensible changes? I expect to see Edun starting FFS!
I was surprised when Small was yanked off after 30 minutes, as NJ seems to like keeping players on long after they have shown they are out of their depth, or knackered. But Small for me has been a fizzle this year. Looks tricky with the ball at his feet, has a good turn of pace, but is just as likely to step on the ball and fall over, or run down a cul de sac and deliver a woeful chip into the keepers arms. Like a lot of our players, we seem to be great at putting out players who can only do it in one or two games out of every five.
Small's head was down, right down, as he walked slowly round the pitch, but Jones studiously ignored him, and it was left to Curtis Fleming to console the lad.
I was surprised when Small was yanked off after 30 minutes, as NJ seems to like keeping players on long after they have shown they are out of their depth, or knackered. But Small for me has been a fizzle this year. Looks tricky with the ball at his feet, has a good turn of pace, but is just as likely to step on the ball and fall over, or run down a cul de sac and deliver a woeful chip into the keepers arms. Like a lot of our players, we seem to be great at putting out players who can only do it in one or two games out of every five.
Small's head was down, right down, as he walked slowly round the pitch, but Jones studiously ignored him, and it was left to Curtis Fleming to console the lad.
I'm sure we've all seen that before, or similar, though. It's better to have a word with the player later than risk causing a public scene when they're visibly upset.
"We won't get team selection wrong again. We got over-run all over. I tried to do something tonight that didn't work and we were ineffective. Our front two were ineffective...our wide ones were ineffective..our midfield was ineffective. Basically all over."
Just thinking back to a much earlier management meeting where we were told that we would have '8' premium players in the first team that are top end players.
Anyone care to pick our 8 that would get in the top end sides?
Can't really count Brum as they are a financial joke.
Watch highlights - have to say BRs first two goals virtually unplayable.
That is fair to say, but they were easily cut open for our two and were there for the taking. Just needed us to play well for 90 minutes of football, not 10!
Just thinking back to a much earlier management meeting where we were told that we would have '8' premium players in the first team that are top end players.
Anyone care to pick our 8 that would get in the top end sides?
Can't really count Brum as they are a financial joke.
I think a lot of our players would get into sides that are more evenly balanced with a working system.
Coventry, Berry, Jones, Doc, Ramsay, Leaburn, Godden - all on their day could get in to them sides, the problem is the system we are playing just does not work to their strengths or any strengths!
Still more than a bit shell-shocked by what I saw last night...... have been away for a couple of weeks and only really paid attention to the results not the performances........ well, what a dismal 90-odd minutes....... when we got those goals at the end it had already got to the stage where I couldn't have cared less. I'm slightly worried about Karoy and TC, I think they got their chance last season more because there was no-one else than because they were good and ready for it. In another set-up I think they'd have gone on loan to learn and get experience at a lower level....... and they'd have come back all the better for it, but that didn't happen and now they're 2 of our attacking force........ not only aren't they ready but they're hardly surrounded by good, confident players who can 'carry' them through a game. I have no doubt they're learning but given what else we are showing going forward I don't think we can 'afford' to have them playing so many minutes. It doesn't take much, even in this division, for underhit passes to put unnecessary pressure on and it can even lead to us conceding goals....... never mind that they are still learning the craft of coming away with the ball in 50/50 tussels, positional sense when we're in and out of possession..... etc, etc.
TC was fairly good on Saturday, playing as a winger in a front 3. He looked genuinely dangerous, attacking the Stevenage full backs, indeed our ONLY player for most of the game who looked like he could create something, as that front 3 had Godden as a lone striker, which isn't good for him, and Kanu as a winger which was even worse.
Last season we had 2 "star" attacking players, one CBT who fitted a 433 system, the other May who preferred playing in a 2 alongside a target man. This season we've built a squad to play 352, and Jones has tried to play TC as a central striker which doesn't suit his game.
We obviously have far bigger issues than TC, but all the talk of how dangerous he is - how many chances is he actually creating?
This team lacks character personality i just see nothing in them . In the 60 years I have been watching Charlton this last 6 years have been the worst. I remember the70s in the old 3rd division the players cared this mob don’t give a fuck.
I think that's probably a pattern across football in general in this day and age as it is way more commercialised and has simply become a well-paid profession. Not to minimise the hard work of players in maintaining fitness levels etc but as money has flooded into the game the passion maybe has taken a knock in some ways. Also players move around a lot more in this day and age than they did back then, spending much shorter time periods with clubs and developing less afinity - if you look at most League One squads many players will easily play for 10 clubs throughout their career. It's a merry-go round and I can't even blame them for not caring - they're a product of the system in which they play.
This team lacks character personality i just see nothing in them . In the 60 years I have been watching Charlton this last 6 years have been the worst. I remember the70s in the old 3rd division the players cared this mob don’t give a fuck.
I think that's probably a pattern across football in general in this day and age as it is way more commercialised and has simply become a well-paid profession. Not to minimise the hard work of players in maintaining fitness levels etc but as money has flooded into the game the passion maybe has taken a knock in some ways. Also players move around a lot more in this day and age than they did back then, spending much shorter time periods with clubs and developing less afinity - if you look at most League One squads many players will easily play for 10 clubs throughout their career. It's a merry-go round and I can't even blame them for not caring - they're a product of the system in which they play.
Can’t agree with that bit. You make it sound like they’re working on a refugee camp, rather than employees playing a sport and earning more than someone doing open heart surgery. So if a surgeon who changes hospital every year or two buggered up an operation of someone you love, you’d just shrug it off, would you?
@Braziliance nice vlog mate. Any chance after the next rubbish away game, you can grab one of those people clapping and ask them why?
They'd probably answer that they support Charlton and are aware that they're a third division team with third division players and as a consequence, sometimes they're a bit shit. 'these people' understand this, and as supporters, support their team through good times and bad and don't boo the team and simper that the all the 'best' players have been sold and their replacements are all shit and the tactics are shit abd the manager's shit every time their entitled and exacting demands have not been met.
@Braziliance nice vlog mate. Any chance after the next rubbish away game, you can grab one of those people clapping and ask them why?
They'd probably answer that they support Charlton and are aware that they're a third division team with third division players and as a consequence, sometimes they're a bit shit. 'these people' understand this, and as supporters, support their team through good times and bad and don't boo the team and simper that the all the 'best' players have been sold and their replacements are all shit and the tactics are shit abd the manager's shit every time their entitled and exacting demands have not been met.
I'd definitely clap a poor performance if you could see the team were 100% fighting, and have many times. Bristol wanted it more on Tuesday.
I've seen people clapping off the likes of Ben Watson and Chris Gunter over the years, and coming on here and saying those players were trying.
For me, clapping those types of players and performances is just normalising those standards and saying they're acceptable. But I'm not gonna tell anyone what to do, just curious. Clap away.
This team lacks character personality i just see nothing in them . In the 60 years I have been watching Charlton this last 6 years have been the worst. I remember the70s in the old 3rd division the players cared this mob don’t give a fuck.
I think that's probably a pattern across football in general in this day and age as it is way more commercialised and has simply become a well-paid profession. Not to minimise the hard work of players in maintaining fitness levels etc but as money has flooded into the game the passion maybe has taken a knock in some ways. Also players move around a lot more in this day and age than they did back then, spending much shorter time periods with clubs and developing less afinity - if you look at most League One squads many players will easily play for 10 clubs throughout their career. It's a merry-go round and I can't even blame them for not caring - they're a product of the system in which they play.
But why did the Rovers players work harder than us on Tuesday? It's not as if they have a team full of fans and clubs legends either.
Watching Jones' antics on the touchline, when he was acting like the entire world depended on the player sprinting off the pitch it all felt as if he was the participating in a manner that was self important.
I thought at the time he is treating these players like they are children, only he knows best.
It's the old school model of teacher and pupil and it won't cut it in the modern world.
It can get short term results but longer term the issues and challenges are more nuanced and need a deeper level of understanding and problem solving.
Fo us to look so good against Bolton, with the high press really working and a strong cohesion across the team to see us unravel in the last few weeks smacks of a loss of the dressing room.
Has he got the knowledge and experience to turn it around, only time will tell.
mannion cant be constantly beaten against so called worldies, Anderson had a shocker against Cambridge in the cup and has started ever since, where is the logic? godden looks like the only one who can score, yet Gas who doesn't even look like getting a shot still starts every game
I'm not saying I agree with it, but the logic is that Anderson is/was the principal "presser" and chasing down and harrying the opposition.
I like the principle, but I don't think he's good at that.
I think he's good at the chasing down and harrying bit, it's what he does with the ball when he pressurises them to give it away that's the problem.
@Braziliance nice vlog mate. Any chance after the next rubbish away game, you can grab one of those people clapping and ask them why?
They'd probably answer that they support Charlton and are aware that they're a third division team with third division players and as a consequence, sometimes they're a bit shit. 'these people' understand this, and as supporters, support their team through good times and bad and don't boo the team and simper that the all the 'best' players have been sold and their replacements are all shit and the tactics are shit abd the manager's shit every time their entitled and exacting demands have not been met.
I'd definitely clap a poor performance if you could see the team were 100% fighting, and have many times. Bristol wanted it more on Tuesday.
I've seen people clapping off the likes of Ben Watson and Chris Gunter over the years, and coming on here and saying those players were trying.
For me, clapping those types of players and performances is just normalising those standards and saying they're acceptable. But I'm not gonna tell anyone what to do, just curious. Clap away.
Exactly. I clapped and cheered the team off at Brighton after they conceded 7.
I walked away Tuesday at the final whistle with no intention of clapping that performance. I seriously considered walking out when the third goal went in like lots of others did.
The problem is NJ, apart from his choice of signings, he isn't managing the team well and they aren't enjoying their football. He needs to turn it around or be gone. I very much doubt that he is capable of the former.
This team lacks character personality i just see nothing in them . In the 60 years I have been watching Charlton this last 6 years have been the worst. I remember the70s in the old 3rd division the players cared this mob don’t give a fuck.
I think that's probably a pattern across football in general in this day and age as it is way more commercialised and has simply become a well-paid profession. Not to minimise the hard work of players in maintaining fitness levels etc but as money has flooded into the game the passion maybe has taken a knock in some ways. Also players move around a lot more in this day and age than they did back then, spending much shorter time periods with clubs and developing less afinity - if you look at most League One squads many players will easily play for 10 clubs throughout their career. It's a merry-go round and I can't even blame them for not caring - they're a product of the system in which they play.
Can’t agree with that bit. You make it sound like they’re working on a refugee camp, rather than employees playing a sport and earning more than someone doing open heart surgery. So if a surgeon who changes hospital every year or two buggered up an operation of someone you love, you’d just shrug it off, would you?
Weird comparison with the doctor... open heart surgery isn't a competitive sport where doctors compete to a stadium of chanting fans. Also comparing losing a family member to Charlton losing to Bristol Rovers?
The point was, players affinity isn't generally to the club as it might have been in the past and so its likely that they're not going to 'care' as much. If it's not going well, they're probably more worried about their personal futures/contracts than digging the club out of it for the sake of their connection to the fans.
Also I'm sure someone working in a refugee camp has more passion towards refugees than modern footballers do to the fans and club.
The thing with Jones is there are players who have played under him before who are happy to play under him again. That must say something. I don't enjoy hearing his interviews and he seems a bit over the top honestly but as in everything the proof of the pudding is always in the eating.
Sorry to post so late, but frankly I was so depressed after seeing that on TV, I doubted what I had witnessed!. Frankly where are the so called "Elite' players that a certain management team were supposed to be trying to achieve? 1 shot on target first half against a very poor team. I was proposing to go and see the game against Birmingham, as I used to have a business friend quite a few years ago, and saw us play at there ground, regardless of results the team's always put in a shift. Perhaps I got a distorted vision of the game, but usually Jones is more animated than that!. He should have been a lot more proactive than what I saw? No, I am not saying sack the guy, but the team looked bewildered?
As I say sometimes looking at the game on TV gives an odd perspective, but that was poor by any view. One thing is for sure there needs to be a marked performance against Birmingham, and the next few games that is for certain.
The thing with Jones is there are players who have played under him before who are happy to play under him again. That must say something. I don't enjoy hearing his interviews and he seems a bit over the top honestly but as in everything the proof of the pudding is always in the eating.
I get that but, those players played under him with some success. It is human nature to be drawn to a place or personality you had good times with and experiences of. Not many Stoke or Soton players scrambling to join the revolution.
Comments
I don't want Jones sacked at this early stage, but if we keep losing by the time we hit November he might be on thin ice at that point.
Watson and Edun were terrible last season. Feeble and weak is how I would describe them. If in position, Watson can put in a decent ball so I accept him as a squad player but to start him when we don't have injuries. What was Jones thinking? He gets out of position too easily and is weak when balls are played in. And when Jones apologises at the end of the game, it doesn'tmake me feel any better as I expected what I got so that doesn't fill you with confidence. And I expect similar going forwards! THis is a manger who got the defence right and messed about with it FFS!
We say we need a creative midfielder. Well yes, but we can get away with a hard working one and have one player in the side who can deliver set pieces and have starting strikers who can give defenders something to worry about. Is it true that we don't have that? Godden knows his position and Leaburn is fit. Those should be our starting forwards on Saturday and if we are going to take a risk, surely Taylor for his delivery is a sensible one. He did have a reputation for being hard working to before he came here. Who expects Jones to make these sorts of sensible changes? I expect to see Edun starting FFS!
Anyone care to pick our 8 that would get in the top end sides?
Can't really count Brum as they are a financial joke.
Coventry, Berry, Jones, Doc, Ramsay, Leaburn, Godden - all on their day could get in to them sides, the problem is the system we are playing just does not work to their strengths or any strengths!
'these people' understand this, and as supporters, support their team through good times and bad and don't boo the team and simper that the all the 'best' players have been sold and their replacements are all shit and the tactics are shit abd the manager's shit every time their entitled and exacting demands have not been met.
I've seen people clapping off the likes of Ben Watson and Chris Gunter over the years, and coming on here and saying those players were trying.
For me, clapping those types of players and performances is just normalising those standards and saying they're acceptable. But I'm not gonna tell anyone what to do, just curious. Clap away.
I thought at the time he is treating these players like they are children, only he knows best.
It's the old school model of teacher and pupil and it won't cut it in the modern world.
It can get short term results but longer term the issues and challenges are more nuanced and need a deeper level of understanding and problem solving.
Fo us to look so good against Bolton, with the high press really working and a strong cohesion across the team to see us unravel in the last few weeks smacks of a loss of the dressing room.
Has he got the knowledge and experience to turn it around, only time will tell.
I clapped and cheered the team off at Brighton after they conceded 7.
I walked away Tuesday at the final whistle with no intention of clapping that performance. I seriously considered walking out when the third goal went in like lots of others did.
The problem is NJ, apart from his choice of signings, he isn't managing the team well and they aren't enjoying their football. He needs to turn it around or be gone. I very much doubt that he is capable of the former.
The point was, players affinity isn't generally to the club as it might have been in the past and so its likely that they're not going to 'care' as much. If it's not going well, they're probably more worried about their personal futures/contracts than digging the club out of it for the sake of their connection to the fans.
Also I'm sure someone working in a refugee camp has more passion towards refugees than modern footballers do to the fans and club.
Frankly where are the so called "Elite' players that a certain management team were supposed to be trying to achieve?
1 shot on target first half against a very poor team.
I was proposing to go and see the game against Birmingham, as I used to have a business friend quite a few years ago, and saw us play at there ground, regardless of results the team's always put in a shift. Perhaps I got a distorted vision of the game, but usually Jones is more animated than that!.
He should have been a lot more proactive than what I saw?
No, I am not saying sack the guy, but the team looked bewildered?
As I say sometimes looking at the game on TV gives an odd perspective, but that was poor by any view. One thing is for sure there needs to be a marked performance against Birmingham, and the next few games that is for certain.