Not good enough. Jones gets no credit for his "taking responsibility" because 1) we know he was responsible anyway and 2) he said the same after the previous game and somehow contrived to make last night even worse.
I'm not Jones Out but he's rapidly using up whatever credit last season gave him and needs to get things back on track because he's looking a bit of a busted flush currently.
Life comes at you fast, especially if you're a Charlton fan.
Only a few weeks ago it was all overwhelmingly positive and the consensus was the football style doesn't matter if we are getting results. A few bad results and that's all changed.
I don't know how to feel about it anymore, feels like whoever we get, whatever their background or experience, the results always start to look the same. For that reason, I'm still having a bit of faith in Jones. Sacking him and not adequately replacing him could be a disaster, we could really end up down there again. With Jones I feel like at some point he will stop it.
Game itself was awful, Rovers comfortably better, two late goals don't change that. You would be amazed how pessimistic their fans were, you'll see it in my video but a fair few were extremely confident of us getting a result, I told them to be prepared to be surprised.
Biggest issue for me is that midfield, until we upgrade there, we are never going to be a consistent team.
Feel like Birmingham are going to eat us alive at the weekend and then Jones needs to work some magic in those 2 weeks. In my mind Brum at home is already a loss, I want to see what he can do with the squad after a 2 week gap. If we come back from that and we still look clueless, then I'll be really concerned, but I'm pinning all my hopes on that gap.
I don't post on here much, I'm a lot more vocal on twitter as I prefer the interaction but after last night I feel a post is needed....
I cannot fathom how a team can regress so much with 4-6 weeks. Where has our press gone that forced Bolton into two errors that lead to goals? The kind of football we were promised at the start of the season has just disappeared and that's down to one of two things. Either 1) Fitness/fatigue which again we were told had improved since last season or 2) The players aren't buying into the management/coaching. BOTH are worrying and in my eyes it's more than likely the second. Surely professional footballers can't be maxed out within the first couple of months of the season?
I think we all agreed after the first few games that the defence had much improved from last season which rightly so we gave NJ and the staff credit. The line was defence good, up to lacking but when Leaburn gets back and Godden fits in we will be ok. The midfield has been totally overlooked and this is our weakest area. Coventry is half the player Dobson was, Anderson is League Two level at best while Docherty goes missing every game. For me Berry could be a useful player in the last twenty if we are chasing a game and need to get players into the box which he's proved a couple of times this season but he's a passenger when starting games. The game is won and lost in midfield and we are now seeing this as teams start to get into their stride and pick up form.
Jones has whole heartedly committed to 3-5-2 which is why our squad only has one first team winger (TC) so it looks like for the future we will have to persist with this formation. If we do then the press HAS to come back because if we let teams play in the midfield they will rip us apart. Leaburn, quite rightly looked rusty last night but going forward he and Godden have to be our front two. Godden's finish last night was a poachers finish and I believe if we give him the service he will get more but we HAVE to give him the service. We need more from our wing backs and I'd be temped to chuck TC out on the left as I feel Small and Edwards don't offer much going forward at present.
All in all, let's be realistic we are going to lose on Saturday so that will mean probably 16th in the table 4 defeat on the bounce. Jones has to get the team together in the international break. He has to reassess, drop the weak links and and regain our identity.
Frustrating thing is we see glimpses of neat passing and the ability to play a different game but the long balls forward seem to be so drilled in it's always the default option. About 20 mins in last night Tennai Watson was making an overlapping run into space on the right of their box and Mitchell instead chose to play a nothing ball into the box from deep which I think went out for a GK. Really think simple passing and a degree of possession would get us past a lot of teams in this league, regardless of formation. Nothing balls forward are nothing balls forward whether you're playing 5 at the back or a 1920s inverted Christmas tree.
I’ve seen the goals now and the two we scored are what I was expecting us to score a lot more of this season. First one (looks like, highlights are short!) a second phase set piece goal and the second an early cross into Godden who is an instinctive finisher. The less said about their goals the better. If I was a L1 manager I’d be telling every midfielder in the team to have a shot from 20 yards against us as they don’t get properly closed down
We can blame the midfield as much as you like, but seriously what is the point in having one apart from a defensive point of view, they get bypassed for 90 minutes with long hoofball. In this day and age players coming through the academy are taught to be comfortable on the ball and pass it, well everything they have been taught has gone out the window. If this is the way Jones wants to play best he looks for a midfield full of Vinnie Jones, John Bumstead and Brendan O'Connells as this lot haven't been taught to play this way.
Think its time for the more experienced players to step up. Doc needs to return and ffs, bring Taylor into the fold. No idea if he will be better but have to give him a chance as he cant be any worse.
I am all for bringing in youngsters if they are good enough but ours just arent doing it at the moment. Not good for us and not good for them.
Strangely, I am expecting a better performance against Birmingham (said we were gonna get pumped but calmed down now!) but think we will still lose which makes the last 3 games more frustrating.
Round shapes in round holes please. No more forcing a style of play that isnt working.
He quite rightly showed his displeasure at being replaced after half an hour v Blackpool and not been seen since. Is this Jones punishing him and showing he's in charge? Looks that way to me.
I think we need his energy back in the team. Two poor performances from Josh since his return from injury.
I'm really worried, deflated and depressed with what's happening at my club. See you Saturday when no doubt Alfie will show us the folly of the decision to let him go.
We can blame the midfield as much as you like, but seriously what is the point in having one apart from a defensive point of view, they get bypassed for 90 minutes with long hoofball. In this day and age players coming through the academy are taught to be comfortable on the ball and pass it, well everything they have been taught has gone out the window. If this is the way Jones wants to play best he looks for a midfield full of Vinnie Jones, John Bumstead and Brendan O'Connells as this lot haven't been taught to play this way.
The worrying thing for me is the players can’t be happy playing this way. Academies were passing out from the back at least 15+ years ago when Solly and Shelvey were coming through, and long before that if they came through abroad. A whole generation of players grew up passing the ball, not pumping it up to the big lads to outmuscle, outrun and outfight the opposition.
If the players don’t believe in it this doesn’t end well.
With you on Zach Mitchell too. We need to play better football without going full tippy tappy and he could play a big part in that.
After the best part of 70 years,I am really falling out of love with what was once known as the beautiful game.It starts of course with your own team,ours at the moment has probably the most inept bunch of imposters ever to wear a Charlton shirt.Nothing,no fight,no pride,no skill,nothing to cheer,awful,crap soul destroying.Last season,we were fighting of clubs for Small,now,not even on the bench,whats gone wrong,Ramsay,championship clubs sniffing,now not in the team.Taylor, man of the match at Cambridge,cant get a sniff,when the present midfield cant put a forward move together to save their lives.Why cant we close down on the edge of the box,how many now have we conceded in this manner,its not fucking rocket science,if you let the oppo have a free shot,they might score. Football now,even top level is one big bore,sideways,backwards,no one wants to do something exciting,(odd exeption of course),players being paid fortunes for the ability to make a five yard sideways or backwards pass.. Rant over,seriously considering not going on saturday,as I fear humiliation is nigh.
Why won't he play Taylor? Coventry is NOT a dead ball specialist! I'd drop Anderson, he's not playing well at the moment, bring in Taylor, start Godden and Miles. Doc for Berry (or Coventry) and start Ramsey. Brum will rip us a new one on Saturday unless NJ changes plans, we look hopeless at the moment! Also, where has the fight and passion gone?
At one point near the end we had a freekick with Chuks, Jones, Leaburn and Godden waiting in the area. Quite potent on paper. Coventry steps up and hits the ball into touch. Time for him to be rested from dead ball duties imo.
The thing is, Coventry was dreadful at set plays last season when he was told to take them after he arrived. I am staggered we have not addressed that in the summer given how important set plays are in football (even at the very top- see Arsenal).
But then, as I said last January, if you are really ambitious as an owner you keep your best players and build.
We shifted CBT, Dobson and May who were clearly our best 3. In the past we lost our best players to the PL. All 3 of those were to more ambitious L1 clubs.
It has been really, really poor business by the club since these owners came in. Is that them, or (more recently) Jones, who knows? Is there a competitive budget, Methven says top 4. It is easy to use smoke and mirrors there though.
We finished 16th last season, and lost our 3 best, this season is a worry as those who have replaced them generally don't look as good.
As I said yesterday win this one and we could say the previous 2 results were a blip lose and we are in trouble! We are in trouble !!! Ahadme isn’t worth a fraction of May whoever thought he was an upgrade when we signed him needs looking at. All he has to offer is height and effort he won’t score goals he has nothing about him I think we have seen enough to recognise that. Anderson runs around like a headless chicken again loads of effort but zero end product no idea where we go from here but it ain’t going to be pretty that’s for sure
Coventry hadn't taken a set-piece all game, it was weird they stuck him on one. I've noticed that he has a tendency to overhit them going for the far post, I wonder if that's something they've been focusing on in training - going for the far post for the nod-back. Our goal at Shrewsbury was of that type. Other teams seem to simply whip it directly into the danger area
We collectively groaned when we saw the side Jones put out. I believe he can put out a better side. But not sure he will.
errrrr, hands up .. I saw the team sheet and as it closely resembled the early season line ups, I was quite encouraged .. the question now is, how can a group that was so together just a few weeks ago now look so disorganised and lost ? .. the answer must be Nathan Jones management style. IF he is a shouter and 'hair drier' type, then modern players will just not put up with that type of 'leadership' for too long, they will simply not respond to old style 'gafferism' and bullying
I opined on here when Jones was appointed that I was not convinced he was right for the job. After eating humble pie early in the season, alas, I am going back to my previous, serious, misgivings about him. Roll on Saturday and let's see what response we get from players AND management.
It's just another season of weak links. There isn't a single team in the top 6 who would be playing Tyreece as a striker. It took Anderson 21 seconds to give the ball away and he is just so clearly not good enough yet continues to start. Gillesphey a constant liability. Watson who was crap last year, is just lazy and uninterested. Less said about Ahadme the better. Berry and Coventry getting worse by the game after bright starts to the season.
We have no spark in this side to turn it around. No real to quality to influence a game. Last night was made even worse by how bad Rovers were.
Coventry hadn't taken a set-piece all game, it was weird they stuck him on one. I've noticed that he has a tendency to overhit them going for the far post, I wonder if that's something they've been focusing on in training - going for the far post for the nod-back. Our goal at Shrewsbury was of that type. Other teams seem to simply whip it directly into the danger area
Would've thought that most first team players, even at League 1 level, should be able to gauge how hard to hit a set peice or cross in open play, at least every other go? You obviously get a bobble or get wrong footed now and again, but the amount of over hit / under hit / wayward balls we see in a game, I find mind boggling.
In the past there's always been the general school of thought that we've had the nucleus of a decent team and what we really needed to take the next step, was some investment and a decent manager to bring in a few of his own chosen players to fill in the gaps and push on, well, we're here, and it all feels very anticlimactic at the moment.
Got to the game 10-15 mins before kick off in the end and had around 45 mins to mull over the team selections. On Bristol Rovers all we agreed was that Scott Sinclair would net against us at some point, but it was the drain of our optimism (which we had plenty of before the team was announced) that turned out to be justified.
We could not fathom why Tennai Watson was selected ahead of Kayne, how Anderson stayed in having hustled and bustled with no value add in every appearance thus far this season, or how Gas came back into the side?
I think Berry won more in the air than Gas who will run all day, but so did Forrest Gump, that doesn’t warrant leafing an attack when in poor form.
Tennai offered absolutely nothing, nor did Anderson, while most criminal of all we played ineffective long ball football while Rovers knocked it around quite nicely at times. It was like a team reversal situation in terms of expectation and application.
What would have I done differently? Started Kayne, Docherty (telling him to put a skipper’s shift in and start leading by example) and Chuks and Godden in from the start too accepting Leaburn would likely play the second half and TC would run them ragged after the main pairing had worn their defenders down. This is not hindsight, the point is that there were some obvious issues going into the game, so how or why they unfolded, God only knows?
The late flurry provides false optimism, both the coaching staff and players need to go back to doing the basics exceptionally well, starting with playing our best options in their natural positions.
Finally, it may just be me but I find NJ’s style a bit counterintuitive. Early in game if a pass gets misplaced or there is a defensive slip he fairly goes nuts at individuals or the team. However, when we concede having not scored beforehand, he clearly gets the hump and actually looks quite deflated on the sideline. That surely is the time where you gee up, go mad at the individual not doing their job and particularly if in the second half make an example and substitute them? By the way, unlike a few too many imho, I am a fan of his and know that he wants the best for the club and will be hurting as much as us, but I do hope he helps himself ahead of Birmingham, otherwise we will be looking at four losses on a spin…
Comments
I'm not Jones Out but he's rapidly using up whatever credit last season gave him and needs to get things back on track because he's looking a bit of a busted flush currently.
Only a few weeks ago it was all overwhelmingly positive and the consensus was the football style doesn't matter if we are getting results. A few bad results and that's all changed.
I don't know how to feel about it anymore, feels like whoever we get, whatever their background or experience, the results always start to look the same. For that reason, I'm still having a bit of faith in Jones. Sacking him and not adequately replacing him could be a disaster, we could really end up down there again. With Jones I feel like at some point he will stop it.
Game itself was awful, Rovers comfortably better, two late goals don't change that. You would be amazed how pessimistic their fans were, you'll see it in my video but a fair few were extremely confident of us getting a result, I told them to be prepared to be surprised.
Biggest issue for me is that midfield, until we upgrade there, we are never going to be a consistent team.
Feel like Birmingham are going to eat us alive at the weekend and then Jones needs to work some magic in those 2 weeks. In my mind Brum at home is already a loss, I want to see what he can do with the squad after a 2 week gap. If we come back from that and we still look clueless, then I'll be really concerned, but I'm pinning all my hopes on that gap.
Shit night.
I cannot fathom how a team can regress so much with 4-6 weeks. Where has our press gone that forced Bolton into two errors that lead to goals? The kind of football we were promised at the start of the season has just disappeared and that's down to one of two things. Either 1) Fitness/fatigue which again we were told had improved since last season or 2) The players aren't buying into the management/coaching. BOTH are worrying and in my eyes it's more than likely the second. Surely professional footballers can't be maxed out within the first couple of months of the season?
I think we all agreed after the first few games that the defence had much improved from last season which rightly so we gave NJ and the staff credit. The line was defence good, up to lacking but when Leaburn gets back and Godden fits in we will be ok. The midfield has been totally overlooked and this is our weakest area. Coventry is half the player Dobson was, Anderson is League Two level at best while Docherty goes missing every game. For me Berry could be a useful player in the last twenty if we are chasing a game and need to get players into the box which he's proved a couple of times this season but he's a passenger when starting games. The game is won and lost in midfield and we are now seeing this as teams start to get into their stride and pick up form.
Jones has whole heartedly committed to 3-5-2 which is why our squad only has one first team winger (TC) so it looks like for the future we will have to persist with this formation. If we do then the press HAS to come back because if we let teams play in the midfield they will rip us apart. Leaburn, quite rightly looked rusty last night but going forward he and Godden have to be our front two. Godden's finish last night was a poachers finish and I believe if we give him the service he will get more but we HAVE to give him the service. We need more from our wing backs and I'd be temped to chuck TC out on the left as I feel Small and Edwards don't offer much going forward at present.
All in all, let's be realistic we are going to lose on Saturday so that will mean probably 16th in the table 4 defeat on the bounce. Jones has to get the team together in the international break. He has to reassess, drop the weak links and and regain our identity.
Those two need to lead the attack from the off on Saturday.
I am all for bringing in youngsters if they are good enough but ours just arent doing it at the moment. Not good for us and not good for them.
Strangely, I am expecting a better performance against Birmingham (said we were gonna get pumped but calmed down now!) but think we will still lose which makes the last 3 games more frustrating.
Round shapes in round holes please. No more forcing a style of play that isnt working.
He quite rightly showed his displeasure at being replaced after half an hour v Blackpool and not been seen since. Is this Jones punishing him and showing he's in charge? Looks that way to me.
I think we need his energy back in the team. Two poor performances from Josh since his return from injury.
I'm really worried, deflated and depressed with what's happening at my club. See you Saturday when no doubt Alfie will show us the folly of the decision to let him go.
If the players don’t believe in it this doesn’t end well.
With you on Zach Mitchell too. We need to play better football without going full tippy tappy and he could play a big part in that.
Football now,even top level is one big bore,sideways,backwards,no one wants to do something exciting,(odd exeption of course),players being paid fortunes for the ability to make a five yard sideways or backwards pass..
Rant over,seriously considering not going on saturday,as I fear humiliation is nigh.
Brum will rip us a new one on Saturday unless NJ changes plans, we look hopeless at the moment!
Also, where has the fight and passion gone?
The thing is, Coventry was dreadful at set plays last season when he was told to take them after he arrived. I am staggered we have not addressed that in the summer given how important set plays are in football (even at the very top- see Arsenal).
But then, as I said last January, if you are really ambitious as an owner you keep your best players and build.
We shifted CBT, Dobson and May who were clearly our best 3. In the past we lost our best players to the PL. All 3 of those were to more ambitious L1 clubs.
It has been really, really poor business by the club since these owners came in. Is that them, or (more recently) Jones, who knows? Is there a competitive budget, Methven says top 4. It is easy to use smoke and mirrors there though.
We finished 16th last season, and lost our 3 best, this season is a worry as those who have replaced them generally don't look as good.
Ahadme isn’t worth a fraction of May whoever thought he was an upgrade when we signed him needs looking at. All he has to offer is height and effort he won’t score goals he has nothing about him I think we have seen enough to recognise that. Anderson runs around like a headless chicken again loads of effort but zero end product
no idea where we go from here but it ain’t going to be pretty that’s for sure
I opined on here when Jones was appointed that I was not convinced he was right for the job. After eating humble pie early in the season, alas, I am going back to my previous, serious, misgivings about him.
Roll on Saturday and let's see what response we get from players AND management.
We have no spark in this side to turn it around. No real to quality to influence a game. Last night was made even worse by how bad Rovers were.
not looking to dig anyone out here, genuinely interested.
if they do who do they want brought in?
The late flurry provides false optimism, both the coaching staff and players need to go back to doing the basics exceptionally well, starting with playing our best options in their natural positions.