Well if nothing else, it seems that Chuks is our only best crosser of a ball. And, who'd a thought, when you put a decent delivery into the box a striker worth the name will make it his and score you a goal. Our two late goals showed that if you asked them questions Rovers were actually a bit shit. But by then the damage was already done. Whatever defensive solidity we had in the opening games, and we did have impressively, has been gradually undermined by our appalling lack of any convincing attacking strategy. We have been reduced to safe sideways and backwards passes or woeful punts upfield. We are going backwards at an alarming rate. Nathan's almost theatrical acceptance of responsibility for the performance didn't really help inspiring confidence of a turnaround.
Surprised by the comments suggesting this team should be doing much better. I agree it's underachieving a little, but not by much.
Jones knowingly assembled a squad with no creative CMs, no good crossers, no dangerous dribblers and no pacy (natural) strikers. It's very difficult to trouble teams with what we've got.
He went *all in* on the hard-working, energetic-pressing game plan, with the battling midfielders to match and wing backs who are 90% full back and 10% winger at most. As a result, we don't really create anything centrally or wide.
Can you press your way to promotion? What happens with the direct football fails? You're left with no plan B, and that's probably what worries me most.
Just got home. Not got anything to add that hasn't already been said by others. My worry is that the players are no longer responding to whatever Jones asks of them. We weren't pretty in those early wins but we had a desire and togetherness alongside tremendous work rate across the team. All that has disappeared through September and we already look a shell of a squad.
I don't have any solutions but I'll keep on attending. I find ways to enjoy it but it does get harder and harder when the product on the pitch is just so dull.
Pretty horrific result, now 3 losses on the trot with unbeaten Birmingham to come on Saturday.
And I don't fancy us to get anything against Stockport either, could well be 5 losses on the trot.
Then Barnsley and Wrexham. We could lose 7 in a row. Exeter won't be a pushover after that and then we have Peterborough and Huddersfield. Jones won't see in December
Blimey, there's a chance that Rooney might last longer this season than Jones!
Well if nothing else, it seems that Chuks is our only best crosser of a ball. And, who'd a thought, when you put a decent delivery into the box a striker worth the name will make it his and score you a goal. Our two late goals showed that if you asked them questions Rovers were actually a bit shit. But by then the damage was already done. Whatever defensive solidity we had in the opening games, and we did have impressively, has been gradually undermined by our appalling lack of any convincing attacking strategy. We have been reduced to safe sideways and backwards passes or woeful punts upfield. We are going backwards at an alarming rate. Nathan's almost theatrical acceptance of responsibility for the performance didn't really help inspiring confidence of a turnaround.
Great. Now we just have to work out a way that he can cross the ball and then get on the end of it. Saying that, his headers have been abysmal this season so maybe best get him on crosses and dead balls.
Our starting forwards consist of a winger who's being converted, having hardly played a central role and a non scoring centre fwd who's asked to perform a role he's not played before.
That's bloody insane if you're muttering words of promotion this season.
Why isn't Godden starting? He's the Alfie replacement, and Alfie was the 1st name on the team sheet last season.
I think that NJ has upset his squad already this season, and that game last night showed it. I reckon it was the Reading game, and he hasn't healed the rift.
He needs to do some serious repair work to get them at least fighting for points again.
IWe do have a horror run of fixtures next few weeks, so I can't see a turnaround at the moment.
Come on @Callumcafc you’ve got some bloody work to do here feller..,.
I’ll get my xG spreadsheet out just for you.
Back of the envelope maths, given the chances created by both sides…
Charlton win tonight’s game ~60 out of 100 times and Bristol Rovers win ~15 out of 100 times.
:-)
We created all our chances when the game was already lost. Got to consider game state when looking at xG. Bristol Rovers didn’t create any chances at the end because they didn’t need too, we desperately threw everything at it because we had nothing to lose. It was a terrible performance and 10 mins of long ball to Aneke creating a few chances doesn’t change that
Before and up to Bristol Rovers second goal, we had created more than them and before and up to their third goal, we had created more than them. It wasn’t all just from the last 15 minutes after we went 3 down and the game was lost.
It’s not a high bar to clear and it reflects poorly on both sides’ attacking output. But we already knew we had problems there.
It’s just a couple flying in from outside the box on 0.03 and 0.06 xG so then we don’t create anything of note AND lose the game which makes everything feel even worse.
Come on @Callumcafc you’ve got some bloody work to do here feller..,.
I’ll get my xG spreadsheet out just for you.
Back of the envelope maths, given the chances created by both sides…
Charlton win tonight’s game ~60 out of 100 times and Bristol Rovers win ~15 out of 100 times.
:-)
We created all our chances when the game was already lost. Got to consider game state when looking at xG. Bristol Rovers didn’t create any chances at the end because they didn’t need too, we desperately threw everything at it because we had nothing to lose. It was a terrible performance and 10 mins of long ball to Aneke creating a few chances doesn’t change that
Before and up to Bristol Rovers second goal, we had created more than them and before and up to their third goal, we had created more than them. It wasn’t all just from the last 15 minutes after we went 3 down and the game was lost.
It’s not a high bar to clear and it reflects poorly on both sides’ attacking output. But we already knew we had problems there.
It’s just a couple flying in from outside the box on 0.03 and 0.06 xG so then we don’t create anything of note AND lose the game which makes everything feel even worse.
We're just not very good at the moment Lost 3 on the spin Look like conceding often No creative spark in the middle No quality in our wide areas A terrible non goal scoring centre forward
I listened to a podcast yesterday where an analyst talked about a centre forward who scores goals should be having 3 - 5 shots a game. A game! Ahadme hasn't had 5 all season!
Tyreece Campbell is a wide player. He'll never make a centre forward. We've agajn and I mean AGAIN - recruited the wrong players for the system a manager wants to play.
We are in an alarming slide. XG, Diagrams, hopeless romanticising isn't going to hide what a scarily large majority of people are saying.
Bad football. No threat. No ideas. Boring. We're not even sneaking wins now.
Was up early yesterday and could only manage the first 20 mins of turgid shit before deciding that i would be better off getting some sleep.
Having reflected after reading the natch thread i can confirm my morning dump looked more attractive than the football i watched and most of that commented on in the match thread.
good to hear leaburn is back playing and Chuks is still a handfull but other than that we need our previous defensive solidity and high press back quickly
Our press has had a complete about turn and it seems to be that every other team, no matter how average, or poor they are, are now able to press US!
What has changed in the last 4-5 games to result in this? Are our players really giving less?
The watch had been poor from the off and we only really shaded games that we won, Bolton excepted, so how can the same players, playing the same system now be found wanting?
My only answer is that the other managers have seen that Jones system is a one trick pony. He thought that if the team were sufficiently drilled in one system they would be able to rinse and repeat every week. The opponents have very quickly worked out a system to nullify our press and take control of the game. As such Jones system has no response. It seems that both Jones and the players either cannot or will not adapt.
It's only going to end in his and this teams demise. Another manager and group that flatter to deceive.
Noticed for a while that Jones says quite a lot without actually say anything. The more the mask slips though, the more we lose, the more aggravating it's getting. "In terms of stuff"
At one point near the end we had a freekick with Chuks, Jones, Leaburn and Godden waiting in the area. Quite potent on paper. Coventry steps up and hits the ball into touch. Time for him to be rested from dead ball duties imo.
At one point near the end we had a freekick with Chuks, Jones, Leaburn and Godden waiting in the area. Quite potent on paper. Coventry steps up and hits the ball into touch. Time for him to be rested from dead ball duties imo.
I love (not) to see a stat on his free-kicks in games this season for completed execution or game impact etc. I'd bank that he ranks lower than most others players in his role! He shouldn't be anywhere near a dead ball. Know your strengths young man.
All this talk about " getting our business done early" so the players get a full preseason to work together on the shape and style of play is all feeling a bit hollow now. Expecting another spin of the wheel reactionary lineup on Saturday , just starting to feel like NJ has no idea on his best 11 and it's throwing things at a wall and hoping they stick.
One of the worst performances I have ever seen. If that midfield 3 ever start together again then something is seriously seriously wrong.
I know Doherty hasn't been great, but he needs to come back in as he at least has a bit of experience and leadership.
Batshit crazy changes again. Watson for Ramsey? Really?????
Jones has to pick a front two and stick with it. One of them has to be Godden as he is the only one who remotely looks like he has a goal in him. I've defended Ahadme, but he was appalling tonight. I'd start Aneke and take the risk. Try and get 60 mins out of him and then bring on Ahadme.or Leaburn when the opposition are tiring.
The really scary thing is looking at upcoming fixtures this could quickly turn into 5 or 6 defeats on the bounce.
Totally agree re starting Chuks. Most of us on here seem to agree that he’s our best striker so wouldn’t it make sense to start with your best option and pull him off when he puts us in front? Gotta be better than bringing him on when the game is already lost. Am I missing something?
Passing across your back line shouldn’t be a problem is if it does a job in terms of shifting the ball for overloads, getting angles, or having a striker the balls forward can stick to.
but we were pedestrian in our passing, the balls forward we’re over hit, and Ahadme looked like someone who couldn’t get the basics right.
midfield offered no spark, either in moving the ball forward through balls down channels or just taking a few steps to create angles.
its not as if Bristol Rovers were offering a press, just simple 4 blocks.
At least one of the two long range efforts should have been closed down.
One of the worst performances I have ever seen. If that midfield 3 ever start together again then something is seriously seriously wrong.
I know Doherty hasn't been great, but he needs to come back in as he at least has a bit of experience and leadership.
Batshit crazy changes again. Watson for Ramsey? Really?????
Jones has to pick a front two and stick with it. One of them has to be Godden as he is the only one who remotely looks like he has a goal in him. I've defended Ahadme, but he was appalling tonight. I'd start Aneke and take the risk. Try and get 60 mins out of him and then bring on Ahadme.or Leaburn when the opposition are tiring.
The really scary thing is looking at upcoming fixtures this could quickly turn into 5 or 6 defeats on the bounce.
Totally agree re starting Chuks. Most of us on here seem to agree that he’s our best striker so wouldn’t it make sense to start with your best option and pull him off when he puts us in front? Gotta be better than bringing him on when the game is already lost. Am I missing something?
On Charlton TV in the past Curbs has talked about players who are “finishers”. I take that to mean not only can they score, but they can influence or change a game in the latter stages. Seems to me that Chuks’ strength is this ability to influence and make things happen, as he did last night. And maybe this is most effective in the last 30 mins of a game. I’m not sure that he would have the same influence from a cold start in the first 30 minutes.
It was a very, very bad night against extremely poor opposition. Jones out, GFP out and all the rest of it is way over the top! 9 games in for goodness sake.
"Not just down to defenders. As much as I like Mannion he has to bear the blame here too. This is league one not the champions league so the question should be asked why are so many goals going in against him from 30+ yards."
Comment I saw on X. Would love to know how Mannion was supposed to save either of those.
Can't make my mind up if Jones is another waste of space manager. Started really well last year, but that was truly awful last night. Bad selections, pedestrian and boring midfield and boring and ineffectual hoofball. He won't get away with "taking full responsibility ", many times before he actually does. Ahadme looks a genuine donkey, don't really see Leaburn as anything special and Doherty, Berry and Campbell look ordinary at best. People were saying all summer we needed a proper creative midfielder and it wasn't addressed. I so hoped this season would be different.
Maybe Jones had pissed some of the squad off and him "taking responsibility" for last nights result was his way of apologising to them and taking the pressure off of them a bit.
Comments
And, who'd a thought, when you put a decent delivery into the box a striker worth the name will make it his and score you a goal.
Our two late goals showed that if you asked them questions Rovers were actually a bit shit.
But by then the damage was already done.
Whatever defensive solidity we had in the opening games, and we did have impressively, has been gradually undermined by our appalling lack of any convincing attacking strategy.
We have been reduced to safe sideways and backwards passes or woeful punts upfield.
We are going backwards at an alarming rate.
Nathan's almost theatrical acceptance of responsibility for the performance didn't really help inspiring confidence of a turnaround.
Jones knowingly assembled a squad with no creative CMs, no good crossers, no dangerous dribblers and no pacy (natural) strikers. It's very difficult to trouble teams with what we've got.
He went *all in* on the hard-working, energetic-pressing game plan, with the battling midfielders to match and wing backs who are 90% full back and 10% winger at most. As a result, we don't really create anything centrally or wide.
Can you press your way to promotion? What happens with the direct football fails? You're left with no plan B, and that's probably what worries me most.
I don't have any solutions but I'll keep on attending. I find ways to enjoy it but it does get harder and harder when the product on the pitch is just so dull.
Great. Now we just have to work out a way that he can cross the ball and then get on the end of it. Saying that, his headers have been abysmal this season so maybe best get him on crosses and dead balls.
That's bloody insane if you're muttering words of promotion this season.
Why isn't Godden starting? He's the Alfie replacement, and Alfie was the 1st name on the team sheet last season.
I think that NJ has upset his squad already this season, and that game last night showed it. I reckon it was the Reading game, and he hasn't healed the rift.
He needs to do some serious repair work to get them at least fighting for points again.
IWe do have a horror run of fixtures next few weeks, so I can't see a turnaround at the moment.
It’s not a high bar to clear and it reflects poorly on both sides’ attacking output. But we already knew we had problems there.
It’s just a couple flying in from outside the box on 0.03 and 0.06 xG so then we don’t create anything of note AND lose the game which makes everything feel even worse.
We're just not very good at the moment
Lost 3 on the spin
Look like conceding often
No creative spark in the middle
No quality in our wide areas
A terrible non goal scoring centre forward
I listened to a podcast yesterday where an analyst talked about a centre forward who scores goals should be having 3 - 5 shots a game. A game! Ahadme hasn't had 5 all season!
Tyreece Campbell is a wide player. He'll never make a centre forward. We've agajn and I mean AGAIN - recruited the wrong players for the system a manager wants to play.
We are in an alarming slide. XG, Diagrams, hopeless romanticising isn't going to hide what a scarily large majority of people are saying.
Bad football. No threat. No ideas. Boring. We're not even sneaking wins now.
Having reflected after reading the natch thread i can confirm my morning dump looked more attractive than the football i watched and most of that commented on in the match thread.
good to hear leaburn is back playing and Chuks is still a handfull but other than that we need our previous defensive solidity and high press back quickly
What has changed in the last 4-5 games to result in this? Are our players really giving less?
The watch had been poor from the off and we only really shaded games that we won, Bolton excepted, so how can the same players, playing the same system now be found wanting?
My only answer is that the other managers have seen that Jones system is a one trick pony. He thought that if the team were sufficiently drilled in one system they would be able to rinse and repeat every week. The opponents have very quickly worked out a system to nullify our press and take control of the game. As such Jones system has no response. It seems that both Jones and the players either cannot or will not adapt.
It's only going to end in his and this teams demise. Another manager and group that flatter to deceive.
Jones taking responsibility, that is 3 games in a row... Change of formation maybe?
Judging by the demeanour of our players, on and off the pitch, I’d say that’s not a happy squad either.
but we were pedestrian in our passing, the balls forward we’re over hit, and Ahadme looked like someone who couldn’t get the basics right.
midfield offered no spark, either in moving the ball forward through balls down channels or just taking a few steps to create angles.
its not as if Bristol Rovers were offering a press, just simple 4 blocks.
At least one of the two long range efforts should have been closed down.
Comment I saw on X. Would love to know how Mannion was supposed to save either of those.
He makes me miss Benson and Hedges and I've not smoked for a decade.