Also, Dobson was a 7 out of 10 player pretty much every game. Coventry is now regularly picking up 3s and 4s. Say what you like but he's nowhere near as consistent, or as impactful.
Hi!
The main criticism is still his set-plays. He was pretty good yesterday and was one of a few who passed, moved and tackled(and shot!) to a decent standard (yellow card aside) but just after we went 3 down he was given a free kick to take and I knew it wouldn't go well and people would give him 3s and 4s pretty much because of that alone. He's got the dead-ball yips and shouldn't take one again all season really, but the actual job he does in our midfield is easily comparable to Dobson
I Am absolutely convinced that Something must have been said/done when we lost to reading away, which in turn has meant jones has lost some in the dressing room. Small being completely left out and the dropping of Mitchell are one of many things for me
Like, he does his job. He breaks up opposition play and distributes it accurately so as to retain possession. If he had anything like functional midfield partners he'd seem incredibly effective. He isn't the problem
Like, he does his job. He breaks up opposition play and distributes it accurately so as to retain possession. If he had anything like functional midfield partners he'd seem incredibly effective. He isn't the problem
Spent years arguing with you about Hector and Innis, think I'll politely pass on Coventry
Like, he does his job. He breaks up opposition play and distributes it accurately so as to retain possession. If he had anything like functional midfield partners he'd seem incredibly effective. He isn't the problem
Spent years arguing with you about Hector and Innis, think I'll politely pass on Coventry
Yeah, because you've got no argument against what I've said (this time, haha)
Come on @Callumcafc you’ve got some bloody work to do here feller..,.
I’ll get my xG spreadsheet out just for you.
Back of the envelope maths, given the chances created by both sides…
Charlton win tonight’s game ~60 out of 100 times and Bristol Rovers win ~15 out of 100 times.
:-)
We created all our chances when the game was already lost. Got to consider game state when looking at xG. Bristol Rovers didn’t create any chances at the end because they didn’t need too, we desperately threw everything at it because we had nothing to lose. It was a terrible performance and 10 mins of long ball to Aneke creating a few chances doesn’t change that
Before and up to Bristol Rovers second goal, we had created more than them and before and up to their third goal, we had created more than them. It wasn’t all just from the last 15 minutes after we went 3 down and the game was lost.
It’s not a high bar to clear and it reflects poorly on both sides’ attacking output. But we already knew we had problems there.
It’s just a couple flying in from outside the box on 0.03 and 0.06 xG so then we don’t create anything of note AND lose the game which makes everything feel even worse.
We're just not very good at the moment Lost 3 on the spin Look like conceding often No creative spark in the middle No quality in our wide areas A terrible non goal scoring centre forward
I listened to a podcast yesterday where an analyst talked about a centre forward who scores goals should be having 3 - 5 shots a game. A game! Ahadme hasn't had 5 all season!
Tyreece Campbell is a wide player. He'll never make a centre forward. We've agajn and I mean AGAIN - recruited the wrong players for the system a manager wants to play.
We are in an alarming slide. XG, Diagrams, hopeless romanticising isn't going to hide what a scarily large majority of people are saying.
Bad football. No threat. No ideas. Boring. We're not even sneaking wins now.
You can see it as hopeless romanticism if that’s what you want.
I’m trying to have a discussions about quantifying how bad is it really and where do we need to improve. Unfortunately it feels like no one wants to engage with that. Maybe it’s the way I present things, idk.
Set plays are inexcusably dismal a real cause for concern Lots of lineup changes match to match is the loudest signal the manager's all at sea The 3 man midfield has been overrun in the last 4 games at least - NJ's not addressed that, he's sticking to his one plan regardless of performance, results and available players Selection seems to be "3-5-2 throw the squad at the wall and see which names stick" Gillesphey is a dawdling donkey who can't play badly enough to get dropped - Ahadme much the same None of the midfielders put their foot in or stay switched on enough to track their opponents making us as soft as butter through the middle NJ is responsible for most of that but if any of those midfielders had the smarts or professionalism they wouldn't be repeating the failures
A confident on form Birmingham threaten a cricket score on Saturday unless NJ gets pragmatic and makes far far better use of his player resources.
Charlton above 2 points per game, grinding out the points and being hard to play against. 10 days and three defeats later some want the manager sacked.
Prior to three wins in a row for Bolton (5-2 0-2 and 2-4), their fans talked about their team lacking ideas and that Evatt’s time was coming to an end there.
Come on @Callumcafc you’ve got some bloody work to do here feller..,.
I’ll get my xG spreadsheet out just for you.
Back of the envelope maths, given the chances created by both sides…
Charlton win tonight’s game ~60 out of 100 times and Bristol Rovers win ~15 out of 100 times.
:-)
We created all our chances when the game was already lost. Got to consider game state when looking at xG. Bristol Rovers didn’t create any chances at the end because they didn’t need too, we desperately threw everything at it because we had nothing to lose. It was a terrible performance and 10 mins of long ball to Aneke creating a few chances doesn’t change that
Before and up to Bristol Rovers second goal, we had created more than them and before and up to their third goal, we had created more than them. It wasn’t all just from the last 15 minutes after we went 3 down and the game was lost.
It’s not a high bar to clear and it reflects poorly on both sides’ attacking output. But we already knew we had problems there.
It’s just a couple flying in from outside the box on 0.03 and 0.06 xG so then we don’t create anything of note AND lose the game which makes everything feel even worse.
We're just not very good at the moment Lost 3 on the spin Look like conceding often No creative spark in the middle No quality in our wide areas A terrible non goal scoring centre forward
I listened to a podcast yesterday where an analyst talked about a centre forward who scores goals should be having 3 - 5 shots a game. A game! Ahadme hasn't had 5 all season!
Tyreece Campbell is a wide player. He'll never make a centre forward. We've agajn and I mean AGAIN - recruited the wrong players for the system a manager wants to play.
We are in an alarming slide. XG, Diagrams, hopeless romanticising isn't going to hide what a scarily large majority of people are saying.
Bad football. No threat. No ideas. Boring. We're not even sneaking wins now.
You can see it as hopeless romanticism if that’s what you want.
I’m trying to have a discussions about quantifying how bad is it really and where do we need to improve. Unfortunately it feels like no one wants to engage with that. Maybe it’s the way I present things, idk.
I'll engage. The defence looked pretty strong earlier in the season and then for some reason NJ started tinkering with it and has made it worse.
The midfield is completely lacking any sort of creativity. We have no one who can run at defender's and beat them either with pace or skill.
We have a centre forward who although he puts the effort in doesn't look like he will score more than 6 or7 goals all season.
We have a manager who although he has been allowed to bring in his own players he still doesn't seem to know his best team.
And unless I'm mistaken some of the players Don't seem to be buying into what Jones is asking for.
Lose our next couple of games and I can see the atmosphere at the Valley getting quiet toxic.
Still more than a bit shell-shocked by what I saw last night...... have been away for a couple of weeks and only really paid attention to the results not the performances........ well, what a dismal 90-odd minutes....... when we got those goals at the end it had already got to the stage where I couldn't have cared less. I'm slightly worried about Karoy and TC, I think they got their chance last season more because there was no-one else than because they were good and ready for it. In another set-up I think they'd have gone on loan to learn and get experience at a lower level....... and they'd have come back all the better for it, but that didn't happen and now they're 2 of our attacking force........ not only aren't they ready but they're hardly surrounded by good, confident players who can 'carry' them through a game. I have no doubt they're learning but given what else we are showing going forward I don't think we can 'afford' to have them playing so many minutes. It doesn't take much, even in this division, for underhit passes to put unnecessary pressure on and it can even lead to us conceding goals....... never mind that they are still learning the craft of coming away with the ball in 50/50 tussels, positional sense when we're in and out of possession..... etc, etc.
TC was fairly good on Saturday, playing as a winger in a front 3. He looked genuinely dangerous, attacking the Stevenage full backs, indeed our ONLY player for most of the game who looked like he could create something, as that front 3 had Godden as a lone striker, which isn't good for him, and Kanu as a winger which was even worse.
Last season we had 2 "star" attacking players, one CBT who fitted a 433 system, the other May who preferred playing in a 2 alongside a target man. This season we've built a squad to play 352, and Jones has tried to play TC as a central striker which doesn't suit his game.
I can't help thinking something changed after the bolton game - NJ got all bold and made the strange comment about Docherty being able to play the CAM role and it was lucky he was making the decisions as others in the set up didn't think he could. I thought at the time that that was an aggressive / power play type of thing to say. Since then, Docherty has been shit, we've signed 3 more ex luton players and Paul Hart has retired and the wheels have fallen off. I felt at the time that that comment may have been aimed at Scott but maybe it wasn't and has disrupted the whole coaching team. Maybe not however and maybe we've just been rumbled by the opposition managers as being a very limited team.
Hart didn’t feature in the handbook published at the first home game of the season and prepared before that. It’s reasonable to suppose he was already gone, unless anyone has evidence to the contrary. They just didn’t bother acknowledging it until pushed.
i don’t think it’s material either way, but it’s a red herring in terms of the decline in results.
This is what I put forward after Stevenage or Blackpool.
It very likely happened after that match when he had his rant before the cameras which made him look like either an arse or someone with a mental problem.
Nevertheless I don’t want him sacked just as I didn’t want Appleton sacked. I got laughed at for my opinion at the time but maybe now we’re heading for the same run of crap results.
Sacking the manager hasn’t worked and won’t work if we do so again. There’s a more inherent problem at the club.
I can't help thinking something changed after the bolton game - NJ got all bold and made the strange comment about Docherty being able to play the CAM role and it was lucky he was making the decisions as others in the set up didn't think he could. I thought at the time that that was an aggressive / power play type of thing to say. Since then, Docherty has been shit, we've signed 3 more ex luton players and Paul Hart has retired and the wheels have fallen off. I felt at the time that that comment may have been aimed at Scott but maybe it wasn't and has disrupted the whole coaching team. Maybe not however and maybe we've just been rumbled by the opposition managers as being a very limited team.
Hart didn’t feature in the handbook published at the first home game of the season and prepared before that. It’s reasonable to suppose he was already gone, unless anyone has evidence to the contrary. They just didn’t bother acknowledging it until pushed.
i don’t think it’s material either way, but it’s a red herring in terms of the decline in results.
He was gone, not at any of the pre-season games or spotted in any of the pre-season videos. There had been speculation on here about whether he was gone or not before the season started I think
He quite rightly showed his displeasure at being replaced after half an hour v Blackpool and not been seen since. Is this Jones punishing him and showing he's in charge? Looks that way to me.
I think we need his energy back in the team. Two poor performances from Josh since his return from injury.
I'm really worried, deflated and depressed with what's happening at my club. See you Saturday when no doubt Alfie will show us the folly of the decision to let him go.
Is that the Alfie who quite a few on here reckon isn't good enough for a promotion chasing team ?
Charlton above 2 points per game, grinding out the points and being hard to play against. 10 days and three defeats later some want the manager sacked.
Prior to three wins in a row for Bolton (5-2 0-2 and 2-4), their fans talked about their team lacking ideas and that Evatt’s time was coming to an end there.
Now look at the two clubs 10 days later.
Look at this and agree. Evatt was given time to change fortunes and has so far so there is something to sticking with the manager. Time will tell I guess.
It doesn't make any difference who manages us or who owns the club. You don't have a blip for 10 years. This is who we are now.
I agree and have said similar for a long time. Good to see other fans finally realising that there is something seriously wrong at the club. The manager and squad are well below par, however until either the owners make a real investment in the team and the smt are kicked out to be replaced by professional people nothing will ever change. The only other way to go is new rich owners who are willing to spend. Hope you have all noticed that the players are not trying, just going through the motions.
Yes, yes, yes. Exactly.
Why else can it be that we turn motivated players into players who are not, with only a few exceptions like Alfie and Dobbo? It’s because they come in keen, and then realise there’s a shitshow going on around them. Perhaps Dobbo spoke out against them.
Evatt had a lengthy record of dominance, success and effective goalscoring football at the club he is currently at
No promotions though so if they had sacked him, I don't think it would have been a massive surprise. Evatt has admitted he has tried to change the style of play, I'm not sure if he stuck to his guns or reverted back.
No doubt it can change but do feel NJ has to find a consistent team.
He quite rightly showed his displeasure at being replaced after half an hour v Blackpool and not been seen since. Is this Jones punishing him and showing he's in charge? Looks that way to me.
I think we need his energy back in the team. Two poor performances from Josh since his return from injury.
I'm really worried, deflated and depressed with what's happening at my club. See you Saturday when no doubt Alfie will show us the folly of the decision to let him go.
Is that the Alfie who quite a few on here reckon isn't good enough for a promotion chasing team ?
Has anyone said that?
I said although he is good enough for a promotion chasing team, he probably isn’t going to play regular Championship football. That’s not saying we shouldn’t have kept him. Of course he’d have improved us.
If Birmingham go up as they should no doubt their plan is to spend more money and aim for a consecutive promotion.
As said after Saturday the defence isn’t as good as it’s talked up to be , I mean let’s be serious we’re the most desperate fan base in the country, craving for a crumb of comfort in a sea of shitness .
anyone who watched on Sky will have heard the commentator pronouncing Aneke as “Anarchy” that was annoying me!
I got sucked in by the Bolton win when the previous matches we looked turd as well but won , nothing since has made me think otherwise . We’d all hoped it would get better as the season progressed but it has got worse .
Positives the season as a whole) : Leaburn , Aneke, Godden and TC (put him on the wing) these players affect games positively.
I wasn’t a member of the Dobson fan club but he wouldn’t be twatting around fannying about like our cnuts allowing pot shots for fun .
0% Top two 5% 3rd-6th 70% 7th-12th 24% 13th-20th 1% The unthinkable
Charlton above 2 points per game, grinding out the points and being hard to play against. 10 days and three defeats later some want the manager sacked.
Prior to three wins in a row for Bolton (5-2 0-2 and 2-4), their fans talked about their team lacking ideas and that Evatt’s time was coming to an end there.
Now look at the two clubs 10 days later.
Look at this and agree. Evatt was given time to change fortunes and has so far so there is something to sticking with the manager. Time will tell I guess.
Nothing to do with being given time, Bolton merely got off to a slow start and now they are rolling.
Fans may have been screaming for a change but I doubt the boardroom were, they know Evatt is a good manager and they know the players are capable of performing.
However in our case our squad and first 11 looks weaker than last season.
Surprised Evatt has turned it around tbh, they looked woeful. But they have some unreal quality in their team with the likes of Collins and McAtee. We don't have anyone like that.
I Am absolutely convinced that Something must have been said/done when we lost to reading away, which in turn has meant jones has lost some in the dressing room. Small being completely left out and the dropping of Mitchell are one of many things for me
The dropping of Mitchell after the Shrewsbury away win is where in my opinion it all went bent for Jones.
The other players have must thought what the hell has he done to get binned off. The body language from the players since speaks volumes
Come on @Callumcafc you’ve got some bloody work to do here feller..,.
I’ll get my xG spreadsheet out just for you.
Back of the envelope maths, given the chances created by both sides…
Charlton win tonight’s game ~60 out of 100 times and Bristol Rovers win ~15 out of 100 times.
:-)
We created all our chances when the game was already lost. Got to consider game state when looking at xG. Bristol Rovers didn’t create any chances at the end because they didn’t need too, we desperately threw everything at it because we had nothing to lose. It was a terrible performance and 10 mins of long ball to Aneke creating a few chances doesn’t change that
Before and up to Bristol Rovers second goal, we had created more than them and before and up to their third goal, we had created more than them. It wasn’t all just from the last 15 minutes after we went 3 down and the game was lost.
It’s not a high bar to clear and it reflects poorly on both sides’ attacking output. But we already knew we had problems there.
It’s just a couple flying in from outside the box on 0.03 and 0.06 xG so then we don’t create anything of note AND lose the game which makes everything feel even worse.
We're just not very good at the moment Lost 3 on the spin Look like conceding often No creative spark in the middle No quality in our wide areas A terrible non goal scoring centre forward
I listened to a podcast yesterday where an analyst talked about a centre forward who scores goals should be having 3 - 5 shots a game. A game! Ahadme hasn't had 5 all season!
Tyreece Campbell is a wide player. He'll never make a centre forward. We've agajn and I mean AGAIN - recruited the wrong players for the system a manager wants to play.
We are in an alarming slide. XG, Diagrams, hopeless romanticising isn't going to hide what a scarily large majority of people are saying.
Bad football. No threat. No ideas. Boring. We're not even sneaking wins now.
You can see it as hopeless romanticism if that’s what you want.
I’m trying to have a discussions about quantifying how bad is it really and where do we need to improve. Unfortunately it feels like no one wants to engage with that. Maybe it’s the way I present things, idk.
I'll engage. The defence looked pretty strong earlier in the season and then for some reason NJ started tinkering with it and has made it worse.
The midfield is completely lacking any sort of creativity. We have no one who can run at defender's and beat them either with pace or skill.
We have a centre forward who although he puts the effort in doesn't look like he will score more than 6 or7 goals all season.
We have a manager who although he has been allowed to bring in his own players he still doesn't seem to know his best team.
And unless I'm mistaken some of the players Don't seem to be buying into what Jones is asking for.
Lose our next couple of games and I can see the atmosphere at the Valley getting quiet toxic.
But at least we have a nice new pitch .
I agree with the midfield assessment - I think it’s obvious at this point that we haven’t found a good balance there as of yet. Personally I think Docherty needs to come back in and played in the role we know he’s good at rather than try to turn him into a goalscorer.
NJ got it wrong with the defensive changes for Blackpool in particular but overall we’ve otherwise been solid defensively - last night was a bit of a freak in terms of conceding as many as three (but that doesn’t mean we are totally absolved of things that can be improved).
I still think it’s a bit early to condemn Ahadme. It’s a shame that hasn’t hit the ground running because that would have bought him time but I’d still expect him to go on a goalscoring run that gets him in the 10-15 range by the end of the season - it’s not as if we’re giving him the service he thrives on and he’s missing a boat load of chances.
I also think your theory that the players aren’t buying into Jones philosophy is wide of the mark. I’m not seeing players that aren’t trying - if that ever changes we would be in big trouble.
Comments
The main criticism is still his set-plays. He was pretty good yesterday and was one of a few who passed, moved and tackled(and shot!) to a decent standard (yellow card aside) but just after we went 3 down he was given a free kick to take and I knew it wouldn't go well and people would give him 3s and 4s pretty much because of that alone. He's got the dead-ball yips and shouldn't take one again all season really, but the actual job he does in our midfield is easily comparable to Dobson
I’m trying to have a discussions about quantifying how bad is it really and where do we need to improve. Unfortunately it feels like no one wants to engage with that. Maybe it’s the way I present things, idk.
Lots of lineup changes match to match is the loudest signal the manager's all at sea
The 3 man midfield has been overrun in the last 4 games at least - NJ's not addressed that, he's sticking to his one plan regardless of performance, results and available players
Selection seems to be "3-5-2 throw the squad at the wall and see which names stick"
Gillesphey is a dawdling donkey who can't play badly enough to get dropped - Ahadme much the same
None of the midfielders put their foot in or stay switched on enough to track their opponents making us as soft as butter through the middle
NJ is responsible for most of that but if any of those midfielders had the smarts or professionalism they wouldn't be repeating the failures
A confident on form Birmingham threaten a cricket score on Saturday unless NJ gets pragmatic and makes far far better use of his player resources.
Charlton above 2 points per game, grinding out the points and being hard to play against. 10 days and three defeats later some want the manager sacked.
Prior to three wins in a row for Bolton (5-2 0-2 and 2-4), their fans talked about their team lacking ideas and that Evatt’s time was coming to an end there.
Now look at the two clubs 10 days later.
The defence looked pretty strong earlier in the season and then for some reason NJ started tinkering with it and has made it worse.
The midfield is completely lacking any sort of creativity.
We have no one who can run at defender's and beat them either with pace or skill.
We have a centre forward who although he puts the effort in doesn't look like he will score more than 6 or7 goals all season.
We have a manager who although he has been allowed to bring in his own players he still doesn't seem to know his best team.
And unless I'm mistaken some of the players Don't seem to be buying into what Jones is asking for.
Lose our next couple of games and I can see the atmosphere at the Valley getting quiet toxic.
But at least we have a nice new pitch .
Last season we had 2 "star" attacking players, one CBT who fitted a 433 system, the other May who preferred playing in a 2 alongside a target man. This season we've built a squad to play 352, and Jones has tried to play TC as a central striker which doesn't suit his game.
mannion
ramsay, a Mitchell, jones (capt) Edwards
taylor , Coventry, Mitchell z, small
Leaburn , Godden
and stick to the same side for 4 matches
i don’t think it’s material either way, but it’s a red herring in terms of the decline in results.
It very likely happened after that match when he had his rant before the cameras which made him look like either an arse or someone with a mental problem.
Nevertheless I don’t want him sacked just as I didn’t want Appleton sacked. I got laughed at for my opinion at the time but maybe now we’re heading for the same run of crap results.
Sacking the manager hasn’t worked and won’t work if we do so again. There’s a more inherent problem at the club.
Why else can it be that we turn motivated
players into players who are not, with only a few exceptions like Alfie and Dobbo? It’s because they come in keen, and then realise there’s a shitshow going on around them. Perhaps Dobbo spoke out against them.
No doubt it can change but do feel NJ has to find a consistent team.
I said although he is good enough for a promotion chasing team, he probably isn’t going to play regular Championship football. That’s not saying we shouldn’t have kept him. Of course he’d have improved us.
If Birmingham go up as they should no doubt their plan is to spend more money and aim for a consecutive promotion.
anyone who watched on Sky will have heard the commentator pronouncing Aneke as “Anarchy” that was annoying me!
I got sucked in by the Bolton win when the previous matches we looked turd as well but won , nothing since has made me think otherwise .
We’d all hoped it would get better as the season progressed but it has got worse .
Positives the season as a whole) : Leaburn , Aneke, Godden and TC (put him on the wing) these players affect games positively.
I wasn’t a member of the Dobson fan club but he wouldn’t be twatting around fannying about like our cnuts allowing pot shots for fun .
0% Top two
5% 3rd-6th
70% 7th-12th
24% 13th-20th
1% The unthinkable
Fans may have been screaming for a change but I doubt the boardroom were, they know Evatt is a good manager and they know the players are capable of performing.
However in our case our squad and first 11 looks weaker than last season.
The other players have must thought what the hell has he done to get binned off. The body language from the players since speaks volumes
NJ got it wrong with the defensive changes for Blackpool in particular but overall we’ve otherwise been solid defensively - last night was a bit of a freak in terms of conceding as many as three (but that doesn’t mean we are totally absolved of things that can be improved).
I still think it’s a bit early to condemn Ahadme. It’s a shame that hasn’t hit the ground running because that would have bought him time but I’d still expect him to go on a goalscoring run that gets him in the 10-15 range by the end of the season - it’s not as if we’re giving him the service he thrives on and he’s missing a boat load of chances.
I also think your theory that the players aren’t buying into Jones philosophy is wide of the mark. I’m not seeing players that aren’t trying - if that ever changes we would be in big trouble.