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POST-MATCH THREAD: Bristol Rovers v Charlton Athletic: Tuesday 1st October 2024 KO 19:45
Comments
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Looking at the team last night... defence-aside how has it improved from last season?
Midfield:
Coventry - here last season
Anderson - here last season
Berry - new recruit
Upfront:
Campbell - here last season
Ahadme - new recruit
And two of those are youth players. I'm not sure how Jones can field a team like that and expect us to be any better than we were last year. It's not like Berry and Ahadme are good enough to raise the level.2 -
The attack is weaker than last season. The midfield is certainly no better. The defence started off better but now looks porous again. So we are definitely not better than last season. We look increasingly like a relegation squad.king addick said:
Personally dont agree. Partly because we dont know our first 11.eaststandmike said:
Nothing to do with being given time, Bolton merely got off to a slow start and now they are rolling.king addick said:
Look at this and agree. Evatt was given time to change fortunes and has so far so there is something to sticking with the manager. Time will tell I guess.Callumcafc said:How fortunes can change in 10 days.
Charlton above 2 points per game, grinding out the points and being hard to play against. 10 days and three defeats later some want the manager sacked.
Prior to three wins in a row for Bolton (5-2 0-2 and 2-4), their fans talked about their team lacking ideas and that Evatt’s time was coming to an end there.
Now look at the two clubs 10 days later.
Fans may have been screaming for a change but I doubt the boardroom were, they know Evatt is a good manager and they know the players are capable of performing.
However in our case our squad and first 11 looks weaker than last season.
Our squad is better though IMO. My overall point is that NJ needs to figure out that first 11 quick, cant afford to tinker.
When I say this next point, I'm not looking through rose tinted glasses as it isnt good enough at this time but there is lots of time to turn it round. Look at Bolton, Look at Blackpool.3 -
We aren’t getting relegated ffs, what an overreaction, we’re still 2 points off the play offs.Southbank said:
The attack is weaker than last season. The midfield is certainly no better. The defence started off better but now looks porous again. So we are definitely not better than last season. We look increasingly like a relegation squad.king addick said:
Personally dont agree. Partly because we dont know our first 11.eaststandmike said:
Nothing to do with being given time, Bolton merely got off to a slow start and now they are rolling.king addick said:
Look at this and agree. Evatt was given time to change fortunes and has so far so there is something to sticking with the manager. Time will tell I guess.Callumcafc said:How fortunes can change in 10 days.
Charlton above 2 points per game, grinding out the points and being hard to play against. 10 days and three defeats later some want the manager sacked.
Prior to three wins in a row for Bolton (5-2 0-2 and 2-4), their fans talked about their team lacking ideas and that Evatt’s time was coming to an end there.
Now look at the two clubs 10 days later.
Fans may have been screaming for a change but I doubt the boardroom were, they know Evatt is a good manager and they know the players are capable of performing.
However in our case our squad and first 11 looks weaker than last season.
Our squad is better though IMO. My overall point is that NJ needs to figure out that first 11 quick, cant afford to tinker.
When I say this next point, I'm not looking through rose tinted glasses as it isnt good enough at this time but there is lots of time to turn it round. Look at Bolton, Look at Blackpool.The bottom of this league is so bad, the bottom 3 have only won 1 game between them. You have to be really really bad to go down, even last season with how shit we were for most of it, we still survived pretty comfortably5 -
Fair enough but even with the start, it wouldnt have been a surprise but Bolton didnt panic and seeing results now.ForeverAddickted said:
Evatt won promotion with Bolton from League Twoking addick said:
No promotions though so if they had sacked him, I don't think it would have been a massive surprise. Evatt has admitted he has tried to change the style of play, I'm not sure if he stuck to his guns or reverted back.Leuth said:Evatt had a lengthy record of dominance, success and effective goalscoring football at the club he is currently at
No doubt it can change but do feel NJ has to find a consistent team.
Lets see what happens.0 -
PWR - I’m saving that horror for when my Valium kicks in
If the answer is Ahadme, wtf is the question? The guy is useless; after the Blackpool debacle I hoped he would travel back on the Blackpool coach so that he could start giving 🫏 rides to kids on the beach.5 -
Who scored two goals against us in a 2-2 draw vs Cambridge last season?ParkinsonOut said:PWR - I’m saving that horror for when my Valium kicks in
If the answer is Ahadme, wtf is the question? The guy is useless; after the Blackpool debacle I hoped he would travel back on the Blackpool coach so that he could start giving 🫏 rides to kids on the beach.
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Give up FA...who was it...🙄ForeverAddickted said:
Who scored two goals against us in a 2-2 draw vs Cambridge last season?ParkinsonOut said:PWR - I’m saving that horror for when my Valium kicks in
If the answer is Ahadme, wtf is the question? The guy is useless; after the Blackpool debacle I hoped he would travel back on the Blackpool coach so that he could start giving 🫏 rides to kids on the beach.3 -
eastterrace6168 said:
Give up FA...who was it...🙄ForeverAddickted said:
Who scored two goals against us in a 2-2 draw vs Cambridge last season?ParkinsonOut said:PWR - I’m saving that horror for when my Valium kicks in
If the answer is Ahadme, wtf is the question? The guy is useless; after the Blackpool debacle I hoped he would travel back on the Blackpool coach so that he could start giving 🫏 rides to kids on the beach.
Lyle Taylor.
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Should never have got rid of him...you started it...😉ElfsborgAddick said:eastterrace6168 said:
Give up FA...who was it...🙄ForeverAddickted said:
Who scored two goals against us in a 2-2 draw vs Cambridge last season?ParkinsonOut said:PWR - I’m saving that horror for when my Valium kicks in
If the answer is Ahadme, wtf is the question? The guy is useless; after the Blackpool debacle I hoped he would travel back on the Blackpool coach so that he could start giving 🫏 rides to kids on the beach.
Lyle Taylor.1 -
Too many seasons where the conversation always ends up us asking Each other, how and why are we so crap? Still early days….. I don’t think a new manager is the answer certainly not right now.1
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We are on the slide with a demoralised average squad and a mad manager..Lets check back in a month on this to see which of us is right. I do hope it is you by the way.NabySarr said:
We aren’t getting relegated ffs, what an overreaction, we’re still 2 points off the play offs.Southbank said:
The attack is weaker than last season. The midfield is certainly no better. The defence started off better but now looks porous again. So we are definitely not better than last season. We look increasingly like a relegation squad.king addick said:
Personally dont agree. Partly because we dont know our first 11.eaststandmike said:
Nothing to do with being given time, Bolton merely got off to a slow start and now they are rolling.king addick said:
Look at this and agree. Evatt was given time to change fortunes and has so far so there is something to sticking with the manager. Time will tell I guess.Callumcafc said:How fortunes can change in 10 days.
Charlton above 2 points per game, grinding out the points and being hard to play against. 10 days and three defeats later some want the manager sacked.
Prior to three wins in a row for Bolton (5-2 0-2 and 2-4), their fans talked about their team lacking ideas and that Evatt’s time was coming to an end there.
Now look at the two clubs 10 days later.
Fans may have been screaming for a change but I doubt the boardroom were, they know Evatt is a good manager and they know the players are capable of performing.
However in our case our squad and first 11 looks weaker than last season.
Our squad is better though IMO. My overall point is that NJ needs to figure out that first 11 quick, cant afford to tinker.
When I say this next point, I'm not looking through rose tinted glasses as it isnt good enough at this time but there is lots of time to turn it round. Look at Bolton, Look at Blackpool.The bottom of this league is so bad, the bottom 3 have only won 1 game between them. You have to be really really bad to go down, even last season with how shit we were for most of it, we still survived pretty comfortably0 -
he may have created some 'situations' according to his managerCroydon said:
We obviously have far bigger issues than TC, but all the talk of how dangerous he is - how many chances is he actually creating?killerandflash said:
TC was fairly good on Saturday, playing as a winger in a front 3. He looked genuinely dangerous, attacking the Stevenage full backs, indeed our ONLY player for most of the game who looked like he could create something, as that front 3 had Godden as a lone striker, which isn't good for him, and Kanu as a winger which was even worse.WrightCharlie said:Still more than a bit shell-shocked by what I saw last night...... have been away for a couple of weeks and only really paid attention to the results not the performances........ well, what a dismal 90-odd minutes....... when we got those goals at the end it had already got to the stage where I couldn't have cared less.
I'm slightly worried about Karoy and TC, I think they got their chance last season more because there was no-one else than because they were good and ready for it. In another set-up I think they'd have gone on loan to learn and get experience at a lower level....... and they'd have come back all the better for it, but that didn't happen and now they're 2 of our attacking force........ not only aren't they ready but they're hardly surrounded by good, confident players who can 'carry' them through a game. I have no doubt they're learning but given what else we are showing going forward I don't think we can 'afford' to have them playing so many minutes. It doesn't take much, even in this division, for underhit passes to put unnecessary pressure on and it can even lead to us conceding goals....... never mind that they are still learning the craft of coming away with the ball in 50/50 tussels, positional sense when we're in and out of possession..... etc, etc.
Last season we had 2 "star" attacking players, one CBT who fitted a 433 system, the other May who preferred playing in a 2 alongside a target man. This season we've built a squad to play 352, and Jones has tried to play TC as a central striker which doesn't suit his game.3 -
Mitchell? Nobody has suggested he was sulking. A Lifer did say that he met him at the Blackpool game and when asked why he wasn’t playing, he said he didnt know, NJ had not told him. If that is true that is a very poor approach to people management, and it would have been known by the other players who may think, am I next? The defence looked all over the place from the word go, then he bins off Small after just 30 mins which is always humiliating even if something clearly needed to be changed. So there’s a second player pissed off, and this from a situation where we should have approached that game with confidence and collective self-belief. Of course the story I quote is anecdotal, but I was at the game for once and that team didnt look happy from the start.eastterrace6168 said:
All part of the game, IF that's what has happened he needs to grow up and show the manager was wrong in dropping him, not just sulk, and bring everyone else along with him...shirty5 said:
Far from it. If I was part of a back 3 that kept 4 clean sheets in 6, I would be miffed about it to say the very leastElfsborgAddick said:shirty5 said:
The dropping of Mitchell after the Shrewsbury away win is where in my opinion it all went bent for Jones.000__Jaaaaay__000 said:I Am absolutely convinced that Something must have been said/done when we lost to reading away, which in turn has meant jones has lost some in the dressing room. Small being completely left out and the dropping of Mitchell are one of many things for me
The other players have must thought what the hell has he done to get binned off. The body language from the players since speaks volumesOur world beaters and prima donnas getting all moody.
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"We won't get team selection wrong again. We got over-run all over. I tried to do something tonight that didn't work and we were ineffective. Our front two were ineffective...our wide ones were ineffective..our midfield was ineffective. Basically all over."Anyone have any thoughts what it was that he tried to do that didn’t work out? Only Watson was a new starter (but finished the last game). I never noticed anything particularly revolutional to what we’ve already see this season?14
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This team lacks character personality i just see nothing in them . In the 60 years I have been watching Charlton this last 6 years have been the worst. I remember the70s in the old 3rd division the players cared this mob don’t give a fuck.10
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9 from open play. 4 more than anyone else.Croydon said:
We obviously have far bigger issues than TC, but all the talk of how dangerous he is - how many chances is he actually creating?killerandflash said:
TC was fairly good on Saturday, playing as a winger in a front 3. He looked genuinely dangerous, attacking the Stevenage full backs, indeed our ONLY player for most of the game who looked like he could create something, as that front 3 had Godden as a lone striker, which isn't good for him, and Kanu as a winger which was even worse.WrightCharlie said:Still more than a bit shell-shocked by what I saw last night...... have been away for a couple of weeks and only really paid attention to the results not the performances........ well, what a dismal 90-odd minutes....... when we got those goals at the end it had already got to the stage where I couldn't have cared less.
I'm slightly worried about Karoy and TC, I think they got their chance last season more because there was no-one else than because they were good and ready for it. In another set-up I think they'd have gone on loan to learn and get experience at a lower level....... and they'd have come back all the better for it, but that didn't happen and now they're 2 of our attacking force........ not only aren't they ready but they're hardly surrounded by good, confident players who can 'carry' them through a game. I have no doubt they're learning but given what else we are showing going forward I don't think we can 'afford' to have them playing so many minutes. It doesn't take much, even in this division, for underhit passes to put unnecessary pressure on and it can even lead to us conceding goals....... never mind that they are still learning the craft of coming away with the ball in 50/50 tussels, positional sense when we're in and out of possession..... etc, etc.
Last season we had 2 "star" attacking players, one CBT who fitted a 433 system, the other May who preferred playing in a 2 alongside a target man. This season we've built a squad to play 352, and Jones has tried to play TC as a central striker which doesn't suit his game.
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We can all see it, so why can't the manager?Holdkneebomb said:Surely time to give up the 3 centre backs. Our wingbacks give us next to nothing going forward so we are getting overrun in midfield for nothing. Just end up playing long balls and playing for flick ons & defensive errors0 -
The bottom line is the squad really isn’t good enough.Callumcafc said:
I agree with the midfield assessment - I think it’s obvious at this point that we haven’t found a good balance there as of yet. Personally I think Docherty needs to come back in and played in the role we know he’s good at rather than try to turn him into a goalscorer.blackpool72 said:
I'll engage.Callumcafc said:
You can see it as hopeless romanticism if that’s what you want.supaclive said:
@callumcafcCallumcafc said:NabySarr said:
We created all our chances when the game was already lost. Got to consider game state when looking at xG. Bristol Rovers didn’t create any chances at the end because they didn’t need too, we desperately threw everything at it because we had nothing to lose. It was a terrible performance and 10 mins of long ball to Aneke creating a few chances doesn’t change thatCallumcafc said:
Back of the envelope maths, given the chances created by both sides…Callumcafc said:
I’ll get my xG spreadsheet out just for you.Fumbluff said:Come on @Callumcafc you’ve got some bloody work to do here feller..,.
Charlton win tonight’s game ~60 out of 100 times and Bristol Rovers win ~15 out of 100 times.
:-)
Before and up to Bristol Rovers second goal, we had created more than them and before and up to their third goal, we had created more than them. It wasn’t all just from the last 15 minutes after we went 3 down and the game was lost.
It’s not a high bar to clear and it reflects poorly on both sides’ attacking output. But we already knew we had problems there.
It’s just a couple flying in from outside the box on 0.03 and 0.06 xG so then we don’t create anything of note AND lose the game which makes everything feel even worse.
We're just not very good at the moment
Lost 3 on the spin
Look like conceding often
No creative spark in the middle
No quality in our wide areas
A terrible non goal scoring centre forward
I listened to a podcast yesterday where an analyst talked about a centre forward who scores goals should be having 3 - 5 shots a game. A game! Ahadme hasn't had 5 all season!
Tyreece Campbell is a wide player. He'll never make a centre forward. We've agajn and I mean AGAIN - recruited the wrong players for the system a manager wants to play.
We are in an alarming slide. XG, Diagrams, hopeless romanticising isn't going to hide what a scarily large majority of people are saying.
Bad football. No threat. No ideas. Boring. We're not even sneaking wins now.
I’m trying to have a discussions about quantifying how bad is it really and where do we need to improve. Unfortunately it feels like no one wants to engage with that. Maybe it’s the way I present things, idk.
The defence looked pretty strong earlier in the season and then for some reason NJ started tinkering with it and has made it worse.
The midfield is completely lacking any sort of creativity.
We have no one who can run at defender's and beat them either with pace or skill.
We have a centre forward who although he puts the effort in doesn't look like he will score more than 6 or7 goals all season.
We have a manager who although he has been allowed to bring in his own players he still doesn't seem to know his best team.
And unless I'm mistaken some of the players Don't seem to be buying into what Jones is asking for.
Lose our next couple of games and I can see the atmosphere at the Valley getting quiet toxic.
But at least we have a nice new pitch .
NJ got it wrong with the defensive changes for Blackpool in particular but overall we’ve otherwise been solid defensively - last night was a bit of a freak in terms of conceding as many as three (but that doesn’t mean we are totally absolved of things that can be improved).
I still think it’s a bit early to condemn Ahadme. It’s a shame that hasn’t hit the ground running because that would have bought him time but I’d still expect him to go on a goalscoring run that gets him in the 10-15 range by the end of the season - it’s not as if we’re giving him the service he thrives on and he’s missing a boat load of chances.
I also think your theory that the players aren’t buying into Jones philosophy is wide of the mark. I’m not seeing players that aren’t trying - if that ever changes we would be in big trouble.We don’t really have any standout players. And we seem to get worse every season.Tinkering with which player to play where will only have a marginal effect, but nonetheless it would help if Jones worked out what his best line up is and stuck with it for a few games. That might at least stave of the threat of relegation.My very unscientific, subjective rating of some the squad, based on current form.Ramsay 7, Jones 7, A. Mitchell 6.5, Aneke 6.5, Leaburn 6.5 (min), Z. Mitchell 6.5?, Edwards 6.5, T. Campbell 6.5, Coventry 6.5, Godden 6, Gillesphey 6, Small 6, Mannion 6, Potts 6 (?), Berry 6, Anderson 5.5 (min), Kanu 5.5 (min), Edun 5.5, Ahadme 5, Docherty 5, Watson 5, A. Campbell 4.5
(Compare that with the squad that won promotion)My best side: Mannion
Ramsay - Jones - A Mitchell - Edwards/Small/Potts
T Campbell - Coventry - Berry - Edun/Small
Leaburn/Anarchy - Godden
4-4-2
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Where's that stat from?BenHaimandBikey said:
9 from open play. 4 more than anyone else.Croydon said:
We obviously have far bigger issues than TC, but all the talk of how dangerous he is - how many chances is he actually creating?killerandflash said:
TC was fairly good on Saturday, playing as a winger in a front 3. He looked genuinely dangerous, attacking the Stevenage full backs, indeed our ONLY player for most of the game who looked like he could create something, as that front 3 had Godden as a lone striker, which isn't good for him, and Kanu as a winger which was even worse.WrightCharlie said:Still more than a bit shell-shocked by what I saw last night...... have been away for a couple of weeks and only really paid attention to the results not the performances........ well, what a dismal 90-odd minutes....... when we got those goals at the end it had already got to the stage where I couldn't have cared less.
I'm slightly worried about Karoy and TC, I think they got their chance last season more because there was no-one else than because they were good and ready for it. In another set-up I think they'd have gone on loan to learn and get experience at a lower level....... and they'd have come back all the better for it, but that didn't happen and now they're 2 of our attacking force........ not only aren't they ready but they're hardly surrounded by good, confident players who can 'carry' them through a game. I have no doubt they're learning but given what else we are showing going forward I don't think we can 'afford' to have them playing so many minutes. It doesn't take much, even in this division, for underhit passes to put unnecessary pressure on and it can even lead to us conceding goals....... never mind that they are still learning the craft of coming away with the ball in 50/50 tussels, positional sense when we're in and out of possession..... etc, etc.
Last season we had 2 "star" attacking players, one CBT who fitted a 433 system, the other May who preferred playing in a 2 alongside a target man. This season we've built a squad to play 352, and Jones has tried to play TC as a central striker which doesn't suit his game.
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Nathan, is that you?Oh Eddie Youds... said:Fair play to him for having the bollox to front up & apologise.
Just hope he now changes things. No more 352 + that front two pairing please.
i would personally try Small Leaburn & Campbell as a front 31 - Sponsored links:
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No one should play in a mask - cf. Maynard - Brewer and Mbappe at the Euros…tangoflash said:When they made the mask for Ahadme, did they forget to cut out holes for his eyes?0 -
I'm not saying I agree with it, but the logic is that Anderson is/was the principal "presser" and chasing down and harrying the opposition.IR94 said:mannion cant be constantly beaten against so called worldies, Anderson had a shocker against Cambridge in the cup and has started ever since, where is the logic?
godden looks like the only one who can score, yet Gas who doesn't even look like getting a shot still starts every game0 -
I like the principle, but I don't think he's good at that.Covered End said:
I'm not saying I agree with it, but the logic is that Anderson is/was the principal "presser" and chasing down and harrying the opposition.IR94 said:mannion cant be constantly beaten against so called worldies, Anderson had a shocker against Cambridge in the cup and has started ever since, where is the logic?
godden looks like the only one who can score, yet Gas who doesn't even look like getting a shot still starts every game0 -
Smoke and mirrors, Jones does this when he gets flustered, his Southampton rants were the stuff of legendsAFKABartram said:"We won't get team selection wrong again. We got over-run all over. I tried to do something tonight that didn't work and we were ineffective. Our front two were ineffective...our wide ones were ineffective..our midfield was ineffective. Basically all over."Anyone have any thoughts what it was that he tried to do that didn’t work out? Only Watson was a new starter (but finished the last game). I never noticed anything particularly revolutional to what we’ve already see this season?1 -
I wish Xg had been around when Liverpool beat Palace 9-0.Callumcafc said:NabySarr said:
We created all our chances when the game was already lost. Got to consider game state when looking at xG. Bristol Rovers didn’t create any chances at the end because they didn’t need too, we desperately threw everything at it because we had nothing to lose. It was a terrible performance and 10 mins of long ball to Aneke creating a few chances doesn’t change thatCallumcafc said:
Back of the envelope maths, given the chances created by both sides…Callumcafc said:
I’ll get my xG spreadsheet out just for you.Fumbluff said:Come on @Callumcafc you’ve got some bloody work to do here feller..,.
Charlton win tonight’s game ~60 out of 100 times and Bristol Rovers win ~15 out of 100 times.
:-)Before and up to Bristol Rovers second goal, we had created more than them and before and up to their third goal, we had created more than them. It wasn’t all just from the last 15 minutes after we went 3 down and the game was lost.
It’s not a high bar to clear and it reflects poorly on both sides’ attacking output. But we already knew we had problems there.
It’s just a couple flying in from outside the box on 0.03 and 0.06 xG so then we don’t create anything of note AND lose the game which makes everything feel even worse.
You could almost hear the Palace manager saying up until Liverpool's 9th goal we had created more than them and it was just that 9th goal that killed us.10 -
Everybody scores goals against usForeverAddickted said:
Who scored two goals against us in a 2-2 draw vs Cambridge last season?ParkinsonOut said:PWR - I’m saving that horror for when my Valium kicks in
If the answer is Ahadme, wtf is the question? The guy is useless; after the Blackpool debacle I hoped he would travel back on the Blackpool coach so that he could start giving 🫏 rides to kids on the beach.1 -
I have the same thoughts about upsetting his squad.ozaddick said:Our starting forwards consist of a winger who's being converted, having hardly played a central role and a non scoring centre fwd who's asked to perform a role he's not played before.
That's bloody insane if you're muttering words of promotion this season.
Why isn't Godden starting? He's the Alfie replacement, and Alfie was the 1st name on the team sheet last season.
I think that NJ has upset his squad already this season, and that game last night showed it. I reckon it was the Reading game, and he hasn't healed the rift.
After reading a post about the body language of the lads getting off the coach before the match, I remembered the great team spirit shown in the pre-season videos.
So I thought, 'Has this changed because of bollockings and rants from a potential egomaniac'?
Then I thought about the bizarre dropping of Mitchell and then of Docherty and had to wonder, as they are both strong characters, if this was a punishment for standing up for themselves, or team mates. Reason given was 'Tactical'.
So, does team selection get based on 'Yes men'? Keep starting the kids who daren't say boo to a goose.
That led me to remember that Alfie didn't get along with him, either. Was his departure also 'Tactical"?
Lot's of occasions when a manager and player don't see eye to eye but how it's handled and what happens next can affect the rest of the team.
Obviously just sharing my thoughts but if we do have a 'Little Napoleon' as a Manager, someone in the SMT needs to start earning their money and get it sorted. The rest of us are suffering.9 -
Watch highlights - have to say BRs first two goals virtually unplayable.0
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Who was their most out of form striker last season? HimForeverAddickted said:
Who scored two goals against us in a 2-2 draw vs Cambridge last season?ParkinsonOut said:PWR - I’m saving that horror for when my Valium kicks in
If the answer is Ahadme, wtf is the question? The guy is useless; after the Blackpool debacle I hoped he would travel back on the Blackpool coach so that he could start giving 🫏 rides to kids on the beach.0
