Charlton have managers and players who aren't Charlton fans; doesn't stop me supporting them or celebrating the rare successes we have.
The national job is an almost impossible task.
Not only must the manager win every game and every tournament it must be done playing the most attacking and exciting football while never conceding any goals and playing every "world class" player available even if that unbalances the team.
Southgate undoubtedly took the England team forward, achieving more than any boss since Ramsay, but that was never good enough for many.
We talk about every group of players being a golden generation until they don't win then we decide the next lot are the golden generation and expect miracles.
I'm not bothered about TT or his nationality but when people cite Spain or Germany as having top coaches that win international trophies they nearly always promote in-,house coaches from their U21 and national teams, as we did with Southgate.
The failure of the FA was to not have his successor ready and in place within the system.
Barney Ronay made the argument on the Guardian Football Weekly podcast earlier this week that the FA has become too reliant on Southgate for years. He's been the voice of the organisation, put out fires while managing the team and it's clear the FA forgot he would leave at some point
Charlton have managers and players who aren't Charlton fans; doesn't stop me supporting them or celebrating the rare successes we have.
The national job is an almost impossible task.
Not only must the manager win every game and every tournament it must be done playing the most attacking and exciting football while never conceding any goals and playing every "world class" player available even if that unbalances the team.
Southgate undoubtedly took the England team forward, achieving more than any boss since Ramsay, but that was never good enough for many.
We talk about every group of players being a golden generation until they don't win then we decide the next lot are the golden generation and expect miracles.
I'm not bothered about TT or his nationality but when people cite Spain or Germany as having top coaches that win international trophies they nearly always promote in-,house coaches from their U21 and national teams, as we did with Southgate.
The failure of the FA was to not have his successor ready and in place within the system.
Its why I'm shocked they've not gone for Carsley, winning the Euro U21s, beating Spain... Should have been the natural case of progression - I dont believe for one minute he wasnt truly interested in the job, given his comments in recent days...
Someone saying they dont really want it, comes across as a man saving face, knowing he's not getting it.
I dont think the Greece result was far enough in the past for the FA to have quickly hired Tuchel as a result of that fallout either.
Surprised at the mixed reaction. A proper manager and probably the best quality we could hope to attract at this point in time. Being German doesn’t bother me in the slightest
It's a consequence of so many (often foreign owned) Premiership teams now not taking a chance on English (or British managers), so there isn't a talent pool of experienced home grown Coaches any more. Just 3 English managers currently (6 British managers in total, with 14 foreign managers), gives a pretty limited choice.
In 2003 when Curbs was in charge there were 11 English managers + 6 other UK managers and just 3 foreign managers.
And the number of foreign managers in the EFL is growing.
It's a consequence of so many (often foreign owned) Premiership teams now not taking a chance on English (or British managers), so there isn't a talent pool of experienced home grown Coaches any more. Just 3 English managers currently (6 British managers in total, with 14 foreign managers), gives a pretty limited choice.
In 2003 when Curbs was in charge there were 11 English managers + 6 other UK managers and just 3 foreign managers.
And the number of foreign managers in the EFL is growing.
It's a consequence of so many (often foreign owned) Premiership teams now not taking a chance on English (or British managers), so there isn't a talent pool of experienced home grown Coaches any more. Just 3 English managers currently (6 British managers in total, with 14 foreign managers), gives a pretty limited choice.
In 2003 when Curbs was in charge there were 11 English managers + 6 other UK managers and just 3 foreign managers.
And the number of foreign managers in the EFL is growing.
9/72 isn't a huge number really is it
If you take the full 92 clubs then exactly half (46) of the managers are non-English.
And yes i have included Scotland, Wales etc in that, as if people are moaning about a German i'm sure they'd also moan at those.
England manager should be English in my opinion. We've done foreign twice and neither of them won anything, Tuchel will be no different.
Didn’t have a problem with Sven but I don’t agree with a German manager considering the rivalry and the two wars.
Nothing to do with that for me. It looks to me that the good work Southgate and the FA did for the national team has been torn up and thrown in the bin with this appointment It took some time but they really did build a solid foundation for an English successor to come in and carry on progressing the process.
We've thrown all that down the carsey for someone who is so called handy at tournament football! I'm quite shocked at the FA's short sightedness. There's so much more to this job than someone who's got a bit of form in knockouts.
It's a consequence of so many (often foreign owned) Premiership teams now not taking a chance on English (or British managers), so there isn't a talent pool of experienced home grown Coaches any more. Just 3 English managers currently (6 British managers in total, with 14 foreign managers), gives a pretty limited choice.
In 2003 when Curbs was in charge there were 11 English managers + 6 other UK managers and just 3 foreign managers.
And the number of foreign managers in the EFL is growing.
9/72 isn't a huge number really is it
If you take the full 92 clubs then exactly half (46) of the managers are non-English.
And yes i have included Scotland, Wales etc in that, as if people are moaning about a German i'm sure they'd also moan at those.
Think that says something about the coaches we produce more than anything. A lot of those foreign coaches are brought in because they play interesting football (Iraola being top of my mind). I can’t think of a single English coach in the last 5 years who has actually done anything interesting or successful. People will say Howe but his football is dull and Newcastle are underachieving
TT comes across as very passionate about the game and has a proven track record. He seems fine when its going well...but when its not he seems to lose it ... it'll all end in tears IMO.
It's a consequence of so many (often foreign owned) Premiership teams now not taking a chance on English (or British managers), so there isn't a talent pool of experienced home grown Coaches any more. Just 3 English managers currently (6 British managers in total, with 14 foreign managers), gives a pretty limited choice.
In 2003 when Curbs was in charge there were 11 English managers + 6 other UK managers and just 3 foreign managers.
And the number of foreign managers in the EFL is growing.
9/72 isn't a huge number really is it
If you take the full 92 clubs then exactly half (46) of the managers are non-English.
And yes i have included Scotland, Wales etc in that, as if people are moaning about a German i'm sure they'd also moan at those.
Think that says something about the coaches we produce more than anything. A lot of those foreign coaches are brought in because they play interesting football (Iraola being top of my mind). I can’t think of a single English coach in the last 5 years who has actually done anything interesting or successful. People will say Howe but his football is dull and Newcastle are underachieving
There's an argument Potter did at Brighton, I guess, but agree there's not a lot!
It's a consequence of so many (often foreign owned) Premiership teams now not taking a chance on English (or British managers), so there isn't a talent pool of experienced home grown Coaches any more. Just 3 English managers currently (6 British managers in total, with 14 foreign managers), gives a pretty limited choice.
In 2003 when Curbs was in charge there were 11 English managers + 6 other UK managers and just 3 foreign managers.
And the number of foreign managers in the EFL is growing.
9/72 isn't a huge number really is it
If you take the full 92 clubs then exactly half (46) of the managers are non-English.
And yes i have included Scotland, Wales etc in that, as if people are moaning about a German i'm sure they'd also moan at those.
Think that says something about the coaches we produce more than anything. A lot of those foreign coaches are brought in because they play interesting football (Iraola being top of my mind). I can’t think of a single English coach in the last 5 years who has actually done anything interesting or successful. People will say Howe but his football is dull and Newcastle are underachieving
There's an argument Potter did at Brighton, I guess, but agree there's not a lot!
True, I forgot about him after the Chelsea debacle. He’s an interesting one though as he had to go manage in Scandinavia before being given a chance over here.
It's a consequence of so many (often foreign owned) Premiership teams now not taking a chance on English (or British managers), so there isn't a talent pool of experienced home grown Coaches any more. Just 3 English managers currently (6 British managers in total, with 14 foreign managers), gives a pretty limited choice.
In 2003 when Curbs was in charge there were 11 English managers + 6 other UK managers and just 3 foreign managers.
And the number of foreign managers in the EFL is growing.
9/72 isn't a huge number really is it
If you take the full 92 clubs then exactly half (46) of the managers are non-English.
And yes i have included Scotland, Wales etc in that, as if people are moaning about a German i'm sure they'd also moan at those.
Think that says something about the coaches we produce more than anything. A lot of those foreign coaches are brought in because they play interesting football (Iraola being top of my mind). I can’t think of a single English coach in the last 5 years who has actually done anything interesting or successful. People will say Howe but his football is dull and Newcastle are underachieving
Far more than 5 years. The last English manager to win a trophy was Harry Redknapp back in 2008.
Eddie Howe i think was a victim of getting Newcastle into the CL way ahead of schedule. They weren't ready and instead of gradually progressing over 2-3 years, it now comes across as though he is underperforming. They've had a lot of injuries this season but are only 2 points off 4th.
I didn't like his part in the Conte handshake bust up but wish him well. We haven't won anything since 1966 so hopefully he can change that. His nationality doesn't bother me at all, it is the nationality of the players that matters.
TT comes across as very passionate about the game and has a proven track record. He seems fine when its going well...but when its not he seems to lose it ... it'll all end in tears IMO.
What ever the personality of a manager in 99% of cases it ends in 'tears' Ferguson and Curbs( CAFC not West ham !) were possibly the exception. Southgate felt the criticism was OTT and couldn't put his family or himself through that again.
Pep will be paid a fortune to go and managed in Saudi Arabia* as not sure he wants the 24/7 pressure when this City contract is up. I don't believe he will go back to Spain to work because of the politics.
Couldn’t give a shit he’s not English but the FA have to get more English qualified coaches through the system, and the only way to do that is reduce costs.
Couldn’t give a shit he’s not English but the FA have to get more English qualified coaches through the system, and the only way to do that is reduce costs.
and find some way to encourage teams to have them in the backroom staff. Someone like McKenna (yes, I know he isn’t English) is a great example of spending a few years in the backroom staff before taking the step into management
Utter nonsense that “the manager should be English” why? For the sake of it? Howe and Potter the only two good enough and neither are interested.
And Tuchel has achieved more than both of them regardless.
The last English manager to win the top flight title was Howard Wilkinson in 1992 - 32 years ago. Joe Fagan the last English manager to win the European Cup in 1984 - in the forty years since then it’s primarily been Spanish, Italian and German winners.
The problem with producing consistently top class English managers is not a new phenomenon.
Comments
Someone saying they dont really want it, comes across as a man saving face, knowing he's not getting it.
I dont think the Greece result was far enough in the past for the FA to have quickly hired Tuchel as a result of that fallout either.
If we win anything with him it definitely won’t feel the same for me.
And yes i have included Scotland, Wales etc in that, as if people are moaning about a German i'm sure they'd also moan at those.
It looks to me that the good work Southgate and the FA did for the national team has been torn up and thrown in the bin with this appointment
It took some time but they really did build a solid foundation for an English successor to come in and carry on progressing the process.
We've thrown all that down the carsey for someone who is so called handy at tournament football!
I'm quite shocked at the FA's short sightedness. There's so much more to this job than someone who's got a bit of form in knockouts.
Allegedly turned the Leicester job down in the summer in the hope he could get the England manager's job.
I thought it would be him or Carsley, pleasantly surprised by Tuchel.
Eddie Howe i think was a victim of getting Newcastle into the CL way ahead of schedule. They weren't ready and instead of gradually progressing over 2-3 years, it now comes across as though he is underperforming. They've had a lot of injuries this season but are only 2 points off 4th.
What ever the personality of a manager in 99% of cases it ends in 'tears' Ferguson and Curbs( CAFC not West ham !) were possibly the exception. Southgate felt the criticism was OTT and couldn't put his family or himself through that again.
Pep will be paid a fortune to go and managed in Saudi Arabia* as not sure he wants the 24/7 pressure when this City contract is up. I don't believe he will go back to Spain to work because of the politics.
* Or even a USA club side.
The last English manager to win the top flight title was Howard Wilkinson in 1992 - 32 years ago. Joe Fagan the last English manager to win the European Cup in 1984 - in the forty years since then it’s primarily been Spanish, Italian and German winners.
The problem with producing consistently top class English managers is not a new phenomenon.