Airman - could you identify any type of owner or existing owner in the EFL ( a realistic one) that you would be happy with ? It seems to me that 99% of potential owners of a club like Charlton are likely to be gambling chancers . No sensible business person would ever take it on.
Well Mike Danson bought Wigan (rather than Charlton) and he’s not a gambling chancer. And we have a better stadium and more supporters than they do. Bigger overheads as well of course.
If we sacked MA now the football world would have hysterics. We really have to give him at least the January window to see if he can build something here.
But I’m not impressed by his inflexibility, his playing players out of position, and his inability to communicate with the team or to switch tactics when required during matches. And have any players improved since he’s been here, other than Hector? Probably not. Some of the youngsters seem to have gone backwards.
I actually think Lee Bowyer would do a better job.
My comment isn't aimed at you particular btw Oakster, but the general impression that a manager who has taken us from relegation fighters to midtable mediocrity, should be sacked after 3 months, when in reality he hasn't done a huge amount right or wrong yet.
Gone are the days of long term planning, the world has turned into needing absolutely everything instantly, and patience in most circumstances is non-existant
Everything that's wrong with modern football fans in a thread.
We've lost 3 games under Appleton.
THREE.
In 16(?) Games.
We lost more than that in the first 5 games of the season FFS.
And if he was sacked, what message does that send out about the new owners? You think that would lead to managers of a decent quality queuing out the door wanting to work with them?
If that was Chris Powell most of you would be clamouring to "give him time", "he hasn't had a proper window to sort out his team yet", "at least he's movednus away from the relegation places".
It's pathetic, some of our fans are so deluded it's unreal
How many games have we won?
Let's not accept mediocrity. We want to get promoted from this league, which involves winning. We have not strung two back-to-back league wins in the sixteen L1 games he's been here.
My comment isn't aimed at you particular btw Oakster, but the general impression that a manager who has taken us from relegation fighters to midtable mediocrity, should be sacked after 3 months, when in reality he hasn't done a huge amount right or wrong yet.
Gone are the days of long term planning, the world has turned into needing absolutely everything instantly, and patience in most circumstances is non-existant
Ha ha no worries - if I am a “modern football fan” - I’d hate to see an ancient one. I hate the modern game - VAR and all that crap - haven’t watched a Premier League or Champions League game in years. I’m a traditionalist!
It’s all about opinions - I didn’t and don’t rate Appleton based on his mediocre track record & I don’t think he is the right person to take us forward - but what does my opinion matter? I suspect though I’m not alone…
Everything that's wrong with modern football fans in a thread.
We've lost 3 games under Appleton.
THREE.
In 16(?) Games.
We lost more than that in the first 5 games of the season FFS.
And if he was sacked, what message does that send out about the new owners? You think that would lead to managers of a decent quality queuing out the door wanting to work with them?
If that was Chris Powell most of you would be clamouring to "give him time", "he hasn't had a proper window to sort out his team yet", "at least he's movednus away from the relegation places".
It's pathetic, some of our fans are so deluded it's unreal
How many games have we won?
Let's not accept mediocrity. We want to get promoted from this league, which involves winning. We have not strung two back-to-back league wins in the sixteen L1 games he's been here.
So perhaps we should give managers half season roll on contracts?!
Everything that's wrong with modern football fans in a thread.
We've lost 3 games under Appleton.
THREE.
In 16(?) Games.
We lost more than that in the first 5 games of the season FFS.
And if he was sacked, what message does that send out about the new owners? You think that would lead to managers of a decent quality queuing out the door wanting to work with them?
If that was Chris Powell most of you would be clamouring to "give him time", "he hasn't had a proper window to sort out his team yet", "at least he's movednus away from the relegation places".
It's pathetic, some of our fans are so deluded it's unreal
How many games have we won?
Let's not accept mediocrity. We want to get promoted from this league, which involves winning. We have not strung two back-to-back league wins in the sixteen L1 games he's been here.
5 wins, 8 draws, 3 losses. Very midtable form.
3 of the recent draws however have seen us concede very late on in one, a dodgy penalty in another, and a farcical refereeing decision in a third. People say this kind of thing evens out over a season but that could easily read 8 wins 5 draws 3 losses, and those 6 dropped points I can't see how much of it can be pinned on Appleton. Especially conceding late goals as it's happened for several seasons now and is, IMO, 100% on the players on the pitch at the time, it's individual errors that cost us and not the guy on the sideline
Everything that's wrong with modern football fans in a thread.
We've lost 3 games under Appleton.
THREE.
In 16(?) Games.
We lost more than that in the first 5 games of the season FFS.
And if he was sacked, what message does that send out about the new owners? You think that would lead to managers of a decent quality queuing out the door wanting to work with them?
If that was Chris Powell most of you would be clamouring to "give him time", "he hasn't had a proper window to sort out his team yet", "at least he's movednus away from the relegation places".
It's pathetic, some of our fans are so deluded it's unreal
What is the delusion?
We fail to beat the likes of Orient, Burton and Cray Valley PM.
This isn't just about Appleton (although he is symptomatic of the problem). This is about the fundamental challenge this club faces - becoming a solid mid to lower table Division 3 club.
Sacking Appleton seems like a quick solution. But the willing candidates list when he was appointed are still fresh in my mind, so I know it's really no solution at all.
I believe the best solution is to buy 4 or 5 quality players in January, finish the season strongly, then make an appointment early in the summer - then we have the best chance of getting someone with ambition.
The problem is of course, having the funds, identifying and being able to attract the quality players this January. I'm not sure we can do any of those 3 things.
We will end up with some loans in January, Leaburn, Dobson and CBT will be gone by latest the summer, and we'll appoint the Cowleys.
Everything that's wrong with modern football fans in a thread.
We've lost 3 games under Appleton.
THREE.
In 16(?) Games.
We lost more than that in the first 5 games of the season FFS.
And if he was sacked, what message does that send out about the new owners? You think that would lead to managers of a decent quality queuing out the door wanting to work with them?
If that was Chris Powell most of you would be clamouring to "give him time", "he hasn't had a proper window to sort out his team yet", "at least he's movednus away from the relegation places".
It's pathetic, some of our fans are so deluded it's unreal
How many games have we won?
Let's not accept mediocrity. We want to get promoted from this league, which involves winning. We have not strung two back-to-back league wins in the sixteen L1 games he's been here.
5 wins, 8 draws, 3 losses. Very midtable form.
3 of the recent draws however have seen us concede very late on in one, a dodgy penalty in another, and a farcical refereeing decision in a third. People say this kind of thing evens out over a season but that could easily read 8 wins 5 draws 3 losses, and those 6 dropped points I can't see how much of it can be pinned on Appleton. Especially conceding late goals as it's happened for several seasons now and is, IMO, 100% on the players on the pitch at the time, it's individual errors that cost us and not the guy on the sideline
We turned up for 20 minutes against Cambridge. About 30 mins against Cheltenham. Didn't turn up against Burton. Put a 5 minute performance out yesterday. You make your own luck when your team is performing like that, then the game can turn on fine margins. Mediocre performances, mediocre results. I really don't think this team can feel hard done by points-wise.
Appleton should be given at least until the end of the season. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
He's a head coach, not a manager. Andy Scott is manager. Same as Harry Rednapp was or Sam Alladyce. They didn't coach much. Just bought players and picked the team. They left the day to day to Appleton types. Difference is now Scott has insulated himself, as manager, by associating himself with board level, rather than pitch level - yet he's the one buying and selling the players.
Maybe we should be questioning the structure and job titles before we start calling for people to lose their jobs?
I was in hospitality yesterday and Andy Scott came over and had a chat with us, which fair play to him, he didn’t have to do but he was fuming with the performance but the calls for Appleton to go are extreme, see how we do in January then judge. We are a laughing stock in football and can’t keep going on the merry go round of managers.
Charlton are already a laughing stock and replacing yet another manager after ten minutes will add to the laughter. Who of any note do you seriously think would entertain coming to work at our three ring circus ? In the knowledge that you can’t polish a turd. At some point we’ve got to support a manager in the transfer market and give him time to get things how he wants things. I’ll make a judgement on Appleton next November and then only based on who he’s allowed to bring in.
A laughing stock to who though? Other than a few spanners i don't think anyone else is interested in what happens to us.
The managerial merry go round will spew up someone happy to take on the job knowing full well they'll get a good pay off when it's their turn for the chop.
I reckon we have Appleton to the end of the season so it's up to him to sort things out.
Airman - could you identify any type of owner or existing owner in the EFL ( a realistic one) that you would be happy with ? It seems to me that 99% of potential owners of a club like Charlton are likely to be gambling chancers . No sensible business person would ever take it on.
Personally I believe there are sensible business people out there.
The problem is that a yellow toothed Belgium owns all the real estate.
Roland is still the Elephant in the room when it comes to finding new owners.
I don't get why fans keep wanting ex players/ex manager back move on.
The club need time to rebuild after 15+ years of being run badly. It is going to take time not just 1 mid season transfer window to fix us. We need a rebuild on and off the pitch.
It's not just the manger fault that we are playing bad the players are to blame as well and I feel some players are well over rated by fans and can get away with murder in there their eyes.
I know some may think it looks ridiculous to sack a manager who has only lost 3 games, but we have been terrible for at least a month now and Appleton keeps making the same mistakes and baffling team selections each week.
He is obsessed with 4-2-3-1 even though we don’t really have the players for it. Even with that formation, May was scoring every game in the 10, but recently he’s either played out wide or on his own up front, and he’s barely getting chances let alone scoring like he was before. Appleton continues to do it each game though?
He’s also obsessed with playing strikers on the wing, first it was Leaburn, then it was Tedic, then May and now Kanu. Chem Campbell is a winger and is playing centrally with May or Kanu on the wing, it is just baffling.
Then we have Louie Watson. Every game Appleton has won, Louie Watson has started in midfield!!! Fraser has started loads recently, the only game we won was when Watson started also. We haven’t won a game where it’s been Dobson and Fraser as a 2, but again Appleton continues to do it every game?
Apart from the Wigan game, look at the games we have won. Home games against 17th, 20th, 21st and 22nd. With Aneke/Leaburn fit, Holden or any manager would have won games against those sides just as easily. Were those wins down to anything Appleton was doing, or was it just having that quality of attacking threat on the pitch?
All fans agree we need to give a manager time, but we need to give a GOOD manager time. And Appleton is showing very little evidence of being that. Even when he gets the players he wants, what is he going to do with May? We should be building around our best player, not using him to accommodate our other players. We should be rebuilding around May for 3-5-2, Blackett-Taylor will be gone at some point which will make it the best set up for our squad anyway, get Michael Duff in and build for next season
The most telling thing I read yesterday was when Airman posted that we are presently a club where the owners are chosen by the management and not the other way round. I thought it was an accurate way of putting it. How many other clubs have that set up? And to add another layer, the management have no history, affinity, understanding or affection for the club, and those they think of as ‘the fans’ are simply one part of a weird algorithm it seems to me, and an inconvenient part to boot. There was a revealing comment about Burger Boy previously which I think is prevalent in the management culture of the club, when he told a fan ‘if you don’t like it, don’t come’.
I was in hospitality yesterday and Andy Scott came over and had a chat with us, which fair play to him, he didn’t have to do but he was fuming with the performance but the calls for Appleton to go are extreme, see how we do in January then judge. We are a laughing stock in football and can’t keep going on the merry go round of managers.
7 games between now and the end of January and it’s screaming that will result in 7 more defeats given the current way the team is set up. Waiting until we’ve lost those 7 games before we ‘judge’ when we’ve already seen enough games to form an opinion is madness.
We have to stop this cycle of sacking managers every few months. I've said before and I'll say again, there's hardly a queue of managers, that could be the world beaters, we need. We're a mid table league 1 club, with a mixture of young players, journeymen and a splattering of capable footballers (May, Jones and Leaburn) with 5 days to go before the 'window' opens! I agree the football is crap, in the main, and for the first time this season I missed watching the game yesterday, but I think some stability needs to happen. Give MA his own opportunity to build his team, if it works then good, if it doesn't he'll be moved on, to change now would be yet another knee jerk decision. This coming transfer window falls squarely on the owners and Scott's shoulders! Let them prove they are worth being here, if MA gets what he wants then it's on his shoulders, if he doesn't it'll tell us all we need to know about Scott and Co. I'm not in the mood to give Scott and Co the excuse that they didn't 'go big' in January because they've just appointed yet another new manager. If, that new manager fails then do they sack him before or during the summer transfer window, and have another ready made excuse? The roundabout needs to stop now, or we're going absolutely nowhere!
I was in hospitality yesterday and Andy Scott came over and had a chat with us, which fair play to him, he didn’t have to do but he was fuming with the performance but the calls for Appleton to go are extreme, see how we do in January then judge. We are a laughing stock in football and can’t keep going on the merry go round of managers.
And what did he think about Apples standing there with his hands behind his back not saying a word during the game?
I know some may think it looks ridiculous to sack a manager who has only lost 3 games, but we have been terrible for at least a month now and Appleton keeps making the same mistakes and baffling team selections each week.
He is obsessed with 4-2-3-1 even though we don’t really have the players for it. Even with that formation, May was scoring every game in the 10, but recently he’s either played out wide or on his own up front, and he’s barely getting chances let alone scoring like he was before. Appleton continues to do it each game though?
He’s also obsessed with playing strikers on the wing, first it was Leaburn, then it was Tedic, then May and now Kanu. Chem Campbell is a winger and is playing centrally with May or Kanu on the wing, it is just baffling.
Then we have Louie Watson. Every game Appleton has won, Louie Watson has started in midfield!!! Fraser has started loads recently, the only game we won was when Watson started also. We haven’t won a game where it’s been Dobson and Fraser as a 2, but again Appleton continues to do it every game?
Apart from the Wigan game, look at the games we have won. Home games against 17th, 20th, 21st and 22nd. With Aneke/Leaburn fit, Holden or any manager would have won games against those sides just as easily. Were those wins down to anything Appleton was doing, or was it just having that quality of attacking threat on the pitch?
All fans agree we need to give a manager time, but we need to give a GOOD manager time. And Appleton is showing very little evidence of being that. Even when he gets the players he wants, what is he going to do with May? We should be building around our best player, not using him to accommodate our other players. We should be rebuilding around May for 3-5-2, Blackett-Taylor will be gone at some point which will make it the best set up for our squad anyway, get Michael Duff in and build for next season
Agree with almost all of this. I had even forgotten Chem was a winger, which proves your point about players not being used in their correct positions. He’s only 20, another youngster who’s probably not ready for the sort of battles he find himself involved in. Louie Watson had only ever played 18 matches before joining us on loan, another unproven, inexperienced youngster, at a time when we need battlers. He might turn out to be decent, who knows, but he’s another example of our hit and miss recruitment.
Everything that's wrong with modern football fans in a thread.
We've lost 3 games under Appleton.
THREE.
In 16(?) Games.
We lost more than that in the first 5 games of the season FFS.
And if he was sacked, what message does that send out about the new owners? You think that would lead to managers of a decent quality queuing out the door wanting to work with them?
If that was Chris Powell most of you would be clamouring to "give him time", "he hasn't had a proper window to sort out his team yet", "at least he's movednus away from the relegation places".
It's pathetic, some of our fans are so deluded it's unreal
What is the delusion?
We fail to beat the likes of Orient, Burton and Cray Valley PM.
This isn't just about Appleton (although he is symptomatic of the problem). This is about the fundamental challenge this club faces - becoming a solid mid to lower table Division 3 club.
Exactly this. People aren’t going on a wobble about our recent run of form, they’re losing their patience and getting angry because this is a repeated pattern of about 3/4 years, with no end in sight. Appleton’s record in isolation isn’t terrible, but taken in the wider context of the ever increasing mediocrity that is becoming this club, it’s a problem.
For this season to turn round, this Jan window probably requires keeping both CBT and Dobbo (may still happen), shipping out deadwood (again - I’ve lost count of the amount of ‘deadwood’ we’ve accumulated over the last few years), and then, finding 5/6 top quality players that are going to come in, hit the ground running, and displace flakes like Fraser. That is what it will take, that would be a tall order for even the most wealthy and connected owners. We’ve got a bunch of unknowns who have been sold a dud and it’s being thinly masked by the likes of Scott as to how bad it is.
Even if we get 2/3 good players in in Jan, that’s not going to sort this season, so yet we go again in the summer, hoping it will be different. But that’s a year into this ownership, these backers who we know very little of, have probably only budgeted for one more year of costs and getting promotion, will then likely be left with the possibility of sacking Apples (depending on how far we drop in the league), and we start again. Same old story, every year.
Appleton should be given at least until the end of the season. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
He's a head coach, not a manager. Andy Scott is manager. Same as Harry Rednapp was or Sam Alladyce. They didn't coach much. Just bought players and picked the team. They left the day to day to Appleton types. Difference is now Scott has insulated himself, as manager, by associating himself with board level, rather than pitch level - yet he's the one buying and selling the players.
Maybe we should be questioning the structure and job titles before we start calling for people to lose their jobs?
So Andy Scott, not Michael Appleton, is picking the team?
If the Americans are properly pulling the strings ( and presumably they are because they are providing the funding) then Appleton has already had it. They have a much quicker hire and fire culture. I know it would be more preferable for the ground to be part of the club again but I don’t buy the argument that it’s necessary to make progress again. It’s a dead costly asset ( liability) and the most sensible route like commercial planes or ships is a sale & leaseback i know Airman and others who saw the prospectus that the owners bought into thought it was a work of fiction - well as someone who works in Private Equity, I can tell you that most prospectus that I review could be termed a work of fiction/ triumph of hope over expectation. It’s just a question of degree. The Americans will have gone into this with their eyes open and like every owner before them they Will eventually decide to pull the plug on the money drain , its just a question of how long they are prepared to lose money for. Let’s hope we get some fun before the money runs out again !
Everything that's wrong with modern football fans in a thread.
We've lost 3 games under Appleton.
THREE.
In 16(?) Games.
We lost more than that in the first 5 games of the season FFS.
And if he was sacked, what message does that send out about the new owners? You think that would lead to managers of a decent quality queuing out the door wanting to work with them?
If that was Chris Powell most of you would be clamouring to "give him time", "he hasn't had a proper window to sort out his team yet", "at least he's movednus away from the relegation places".
It's pathetic, some of our fans are so deluded it's unreal
How many games have we won?
Let's not accept mediocrity. We want to get promoted from this league, which involves winning. We have not strung two back-to-back league wins in the sixteen L1 games he's been here.
This.
Its not the number of games we've lost it's the number of games we haven't won....especially when leading AT HOME.
Comments
Gone are the days of long term planning, the world has turned into needing absolutely everything instantly, and patience in most circumstances is non-existant
Let's not accept mediocrity. We want to get promoted from this league, which involves winning. We have not strung two back-to-back league wins in the sixteen L1 games he's been here.
It’s all about opinions - I didn’t and don’t rate Appleton based on his mediocre track record & I don’t think he is the right person to take us forward - but what does my opinion matter? I suspect though I’m not alone…
3 of the recent draws however have seen us concede very late on in one, a dodgy penalty in another, and a farcical refereeing decision in a third. People say this kind of thing evens out over a season but that could easily read 8 wins 5 draws 3 losses, and those 6 dropped points I can't see how much of it can be pinned on Appleton. Especially conceding late goals as it's happened for several seasons now and is, IMO, 100% on the players on the pitch at the time, it's individual errors that cost us and not the guy on the sideline
We fail to beat the likes of Orient, Burton and Cray Valley PM.
This isn't just about Appleton (although he is symptomatic of the problem). This is about the fundamental challenge this club faces - becoming a solid mid to lower table Division 3 club.
I believe the best solution is to buy 4 or 5 quality players in January, finish the season strongly, then make an appointment early in the summer - then we have the best chance of getting someone with ambition.
The problem is of course, having the funds, identifying and being able to attract the quality players this January. I'm not sure we can do any of those 3 things.
We will end up with some loans in January, Leaburn, Dobson and CBT will be gone by latest the summer, and we'll appoint the Cowleys.
He's a head coach, not a manager. Andy Scott is manager. Same as Harry Rednapp was or Sam Alladyce. They didn't coach much. Just bought players and picked the team. They left the day to day to Appleton types. Difference is now Scott has insulated himself, as manager, by associating himself with board level, rather than pitch level - yet he's the one buying and selling the players.
Maybe we should be questioning the structure and job titles before we start calling for people to lose their jobs?
The problem is that a yellow toothed Belgium owns all the real estate.
Roland is still the Elephant in the room when it comes to finding new owners.
The club need time to rebuild after 15+ years of being run badly. It is going to take time not just 1 mid season transfer window to fix us. We need a rebuild on and off the pitch.
It's not just the manger fault that we are playing bad the players are to blame as well and I feel some players are well over rated by fans and can get away with murder in there their eyes.
I know some may think it looks ridiculous to sack a manager who has only lost 3 games, but we have been terrible for at least a month now and Appleton keeps making the same mistakes and baffling team selections each week.
He is obsessed with 4-2-3-1 even though we don’t really have the players for it. Even with that formation, May was scoring every game in the 10, but recently he’s either played out wide or on his own up front, and he’s barely getting chances let alone scoring like he was before. Appleton continues to do it each game though?
He’s also obsessed with playing strikers on the wing, first it was Leaburn, then it was Tedic, then May and now Kanu. Chem Campbell is a winger and is playing centrally with May or Kanu on the wing, it is just baffling.
Then we have Louie Watson. Every game Appleton has won, Louie Watson has started in midfield!!! Fraser has started loads recently, the only game we won was when Watson started also. We haven’t won a game where it’s been Dobson and Fraser as a 2, but again Appleton continues to do it every game?
Apart from the Wigan game, look at the games we have won. Home games against 17th, 20th, 21st and 22nd. With Aneke/Leaburn fit, Holden or any manager would have won games against those sides just as easily. Were those wins down to anything Appleton was doing, or was it just having that quality of attacking threat on the pitch?
All fans agree we need to give a manager time, but we need to give a GOOD manager time. And Appleton is showing very little evidence of being that. Even when he gets the players he wants, what is he going to do with May? We should be building around our best player, not using him to accommodate our other players. We should be rebuilding around May for 3-5-2, Blackett-Taylor will be gone at some point which will make it the best set up for our squad anyway, get Michael Duff in and build for next season
I thought it was an accurate way of putting it.
How many other clubs have that set up?
And to add another layer, the management have no history, affinity, understanding or affection for the club, and those they think of as ‘the fans’ are simply one part of a weird algorithm it seems to me, and an inconvenient part to boot.
There was a revealing comment about Burger Boy previously which I think is prevalent in the management culture of the club, when he told a fan ‘if you don’t like it, don’t come’.
Three promotions including the juggernaut of Sunderland out of League 1.
I agree the football is crap, in the main, and for the first time this season I missed watching the game yesterday, but I think some stability needs to happen.
Give MA his own opportunity to build his team, if it works then good, if it doesn't he'll be moved on, to change now would be yet another knee jerk decision.
This coming transfer window falls squarely on the owners and Scott's shoulders! Let them prove they are worth being here, if MA gets what he wants then it's on his shoulders, if he doesn't it'll tell us all we need to know about Scott and Co.
I'm not in the mood to give Scott and Co the excuse that they didn't 'go big' in January because they've just appointed yet another new manager. If, that new manager fails then do they sack him before or during the summer transfer window, and have another ready made excuse? The roundabout needs to stop now, or we're going absolutely nowhere!
Louie Watson had only ever played 18 matches before joining us on loan, another unproven, inexperienced youngster, at a time when we need battlers. He might turn out to be decent, who knows, but he’s another example of our hit and miss recruitment.
I know it would be more preferable for the ground to be part of the club again but I don’t buy the argument that it’s necessary to make progress again. It’s a dead costly asset ( liability) and the most sensible route like commercial planes or ships is a sale & leaseback
i know Airman and others who saw the prospectus that the owners bought into thought it was a work of fiction - well as someone who works in Private Equity, I can tell you that most prospectus that I review could be termed a work of fiction/ triumph of hope over expectation. It’s just a question of degree.
The Americans will have gone into this with their eyes open and like every owner before them they Will eventually decide to pull the plug on the money drain , its just a question of how long they are prepared to lose money for. Let’s hope we get some fun before the money runs out again !
No idea who should be manager or when.....but imo Appleton is not the man to lead us going forward.
Just my tuppence worth.
Its not the number of games we've lost it's the number of games we haven't won....especially when leading AT HOME.