I think it's pretty clear that Appleton is not the right man for the job. If we allow him to make changes this transfer window and it doesn't work , he will get the bullet early next season. The then new manager may not like the squad Appleton has put together. Far better to make a change now giving the new manager time to assess what needs to be done next summer.
100% - problem is if those in football circles think Scott and methven etc are duds as well and we can’t get better - as hard as that would seem - atm there’s no evidence to think they aren’t duds and plenty to think they are - I think we’re back into looking for a new owner territory if this window is shit as well
The one distinction is that there is apparent separation between the actual owners/ funders and the management.
The latter can be replaced if they don't deliver in the same way the team manager could be.
Albeit I think someone posted the other day (Airman maybe) that some of the investors have already lost interest.
But theoretically this is different from a Duchatelet/ Sandgaard set up where they write the theme tune and sing the theme tune a'la Dennis Waterman.
Methven and co may have brokered the gig for themselves and got the money men in but the money men surely will have power to replace them if they consistently fail to deliver on pre- agreed targets as in a normal non- football business.
Does beg the question though whether the money men will give the funds to Scott and co if their faith in them has dwindled based on what they've seen thus far.
The fact they owned a club in the US suggests they're not Sandgaard levels of naive about the game and surely have gone into this with eyes open wider than he did. Albeit I'm aware as I type that Duchatelet also owned clubs and he stubbornly failed to learn from his Standard Liege experience.
Always better to under promise and over deliver but perhaps the opposite has happened to get the investment/ backing in the first place and that will come home to roost when the Americans look at our league position and 2 thirds empty ground with apathetic boos ringing out.
For the money men living remotely and without any real love for the club their only measure on their investment will be results. Easy enough to look at the league table and to start to question what the hell is going on when the next payment is needed. I do think that even non football people will understand that it’s not easy to turn around a failing business and football club like Charlton and I would think there will be understanding and time given longer than this season. But… I would also think that Methven and Scott are well aware that next season needs to be when they start to deliver because around next November I’d say the questions will start if we are not challenging. Both CM and AS can be replaced and they know a significant improvement is required. It’s why I think there will be money spent and some decent signings made in both January and the summer.
I know some may think it looks ridiculous to sack a manager who has only lost 3 games, but we have been terrible for at least a month now and Appleton keeps making the same mistakes and baffling team selections each week.
He is obsessed with 4-2-3-1 even though we don’t really have the players for it. Even with that formation, May was scoring every game in the 10, but recently he’s either played out wide or on his own up front, and he’s barely getting chances let alone scoring like he was before. Appleton continues to do it each game though?
He’s also obsessed with playing strikers on the wing, first it was Leaburn, then it was Tedic, then May and now Kanu. Chem Campbell is a winger and is playing centrally with May or Kanu on the wing, it is just baffling.
Then we have Louie Watson. Every game Appleton has won, Louie Watson has started in midfield!!! Fraser has started loads recently, the only game we won was when Watson started also. We haven’t won a game where it’s been Dobson and Fraser as a 2, but again Appleton continues to do it every game?
Apart from the Wigan game, look at the games we have won. Home games against 17th, 20th, 21st and 22nd. With Aneke/Leaburn fit, Holden or any manager would have won games against those sides just as easily. Were those wins down to anything Appleton was doing, or was it just having that quality of attacking threat on the pitch?
All fans agree we need to give a manager time, but we need to give a GOOD manager time. And Appleton is showing very little evidence of being that. Even when he gets the players he wants, what is he going to do with May? We should be building around our best player, not using him to accommodate our other players. We should be rebuilding around May for 3-5-2, Blackett-Taylor will be gone at some point which will make it the best set up for our squad anyway, get Michael Duff in and build for next season
This in spades. Particularly the bit about a good manager. No end of transfer windows will sort that out. This is a manager who takes a 30 goals a season striker and moves him about until he find a position that stops him scoring.
Yes we have too many mediocre players at the club, but so did Curbs and he was adept at getting the best out of the whole. No-one will convince me a good manager wouldn't find a way to manage the last 5 minutes of a game, couldn't see that Chem Campbell is way short of what's needed in a number 10, or that Watson's energy and skill move the game up the pitch and spark our attacking players.
For the money men living remotely and without any real love for the club their only measure on their investment will be results. Easy enough to look at the league table and to start to question what the hell is going on when the next payment is needed. I do think that even non football people will understand that it’s not easy to turn around a failing business and football club like Charlton and I would think there will be understanding and time given longer than this season. But… I would also think that Methven and Scott are well aware that next season needs to be when they start to deliver because around next November I’d say the questions will start if we are not challenging. Both CM and AS can be replaced and they know a significant improvement is required. It’s why I think there will be money spent and some decent signings made in both January and the summer.
Don't think they will be. More likely the investment will walk away.
For the money men living remotely and without any real love for the club their only measure on their investment will be results. Easy enough to look at the league table and to start to question what the hell is going on when the next payment is needed. I do think that even non football people will understand that it’s not easy to turn around a failing business and football club like Charlton and I would think there will be understanding and time given longer than this season. But… I would also think that Methven and Scott are well aware that next season needs to be when they start to deliver because around next November I’d say the questions will start if we are not challenging. Both CM and AS can be replaced and they know a significant improvement is required. It’s why I think there will be money spent and some decent signings made in both January and the summer.
Don't think they will be. More likely the investment will walk away.
I think investors are not stupid. They might have been spun an enchanted idea by Methven but they knew full well that this was not a project for a quick buck. Just like any shareholders some might want out and some might want a little more investment and involvement. To think there is going to be a significant walk away or fire sale is I think doubtful. Having said that they will want signs of things moving forward.
‘You’ve got to die to get three points’ said my favourite for the managerial job and he instilled that attitude in all of his teams (except Palace). I’d love to see him at Charlton even if it’s just for the rest of the season…
Appleton is increasingly clearly not the man for the job. The problem we've got is that he is just another symptom of the bigger problem. If Appleton does get the heave ho it doesn't matter if he's replaced by the Cowleys or Guardiola - this time next year we'll be stuck in midtable feeling underwhelmed and with the season basically over... again.
We need a complete root and branch nuclear option rebuild. Its bigger than the coach (whoever that may be). Recruitment is part of it but its more that the club as a whole is stuck in a colossal rut and it needs a visionary with deep pockets to dig us out of it. I don't think either Scott or Methven are that person.
If the investors knew that this wasn’t about a quick buck, then I would’ve thought by now they would realise that with Methven in charge of this bullshit regime with their bullshit appointments, means there won’t even be a slow buck, or any buck at all.
I planted the seed a little while ago, and ask again in a typically obtuse fashion. If Andy Scott and Michael Appleton are not on speaking terms, and have not been on speaking terms about anything substantial or meaningful for weeks now, how are they going to progress the club?
The situation is far from a buck up, but closer to something that rhymes with that, the terrifying reality is that all those playing around with OUR club can happily walk away with the mental and emotional detachment that we as fans don’t have.
I think it's pretty clear that Appleton is not the right man for the job. If we allow him to make changes this transfer window and it doesn't work , he will get the bullet early next season. The then new manager may not like the squad Appleton has put together. Far better to make a change now giving the new manager time to assess what needs to be done next summer.
100% - problem is if those in football circles think Scott and methven etc are duds as well and we can’t get better - as hard as that would seem - atm there’s no evidence to think they aren’t duds and plenty to think they are - I think we’re back into looking for a new owner territory if this window is shit as well
The one distinction is that there is apparent separation between the actual owners/ funders and the management.
The latter can be replaced if they don't deliver in the same way the team manager could be. Albeit I think someone posted the other day (Airman maybe) that some of the investors have already lost interest.
But theoretically this is different from a Duchatelet/ Sandgaard set up where they write the theme tune and sing the theme tune a'la Dennis Waterman.
Methven and co may have brokered the gig for themselves and got the money men in but the money men surely will have power to replace them if they consistently fail to deliver on pre- agreed targets as in a normal non- football business.
Does beg the question though whether the money men will give the funds to Scott and co if their faith in them has dwindled based on what they've seen thus far.
The fact they owned a club in the US suggests they're not Sandgaard levels of naive about the game and surely have gone into this with eyes open wider than he did. Albeit I'm aware as I type that Duchatelet also owned clubs and he stubbornly failed to learn from his Standard Liege experience.
Always better to under promise and over deliver but perhaps the opposite has happened to get the investment/ backing in the first place and that will come home to roost when the Americans look at our league position and 2 thirds empty ground with apathetic boos ringing out.
Not me. I don’t think the investors will take a particularly short term view on football results; I do think they will start to question the financials over time. What I did say is that Methven’s shareholding doesn’t prevent him being sidelined.
Methven’s comment about making a profit (a small operating loss offset by player sales) is suggestive of the pitch made to the investors. It won’t happen (except as a one-off), because it depends on heroic (fanciful) assumptions about the business.
Curbs and Brownie talked last night about “the owners” needing to explain their plan in January. I’m not certain who they meant but I’d be surprised if that happened, other than Methven. I do think we will sign some players though, because otherwise the game is up already.
I think Appletons position is pretty rock solid for now. If we spend on a few decent signings and there’s not a significant improvement in our form then maybe it’ll be looked at in the summer but frankly talk of ditching him now is madness.
I think Appletons position is pretty rock solid for now. If we spend on a few decent signings and there’s not a significant improvement in our form then maybe it’ll be looked at in the summer but frankly talk of ditching him now is madness.
I’m not sure, the crowd is toxic and a couple more defeats would put him on similar form to when Holden was sacked, but Appleton has better players to pick from
The younger players performed better under Holden.
Yes, to an extent. The problem is that Holden, Garner and Appleton should be nowhere this role in the first place. It’s the level we’ve descended to. I’ve never been one to believe we’re a big club and should be at a better level, but I truly believe that with our history and the size of the club (comparatively speaking), the likes of Garner and Holden we’re lucky to even get an interview
One day we will get lucky and end up with another Curbs or Lennie. Not every manager is shite. By the law of averages employ enough managers and eventually we will strike gold.
One day we will get lucky and end up with another Curbs or Lennie. Not every manager is shite. By the law of averages employ enough managers and eventually we will strike gold.
The more we sack the less inclined anyone good will be willing to come in. At some point we need to pay top dollar and get someone and give them time and support. What we’re currently doing is most of the problem.
I just feel wary of giving Appleton too much influence on the signings when he has failed to make the best of what we currently have, if he continues to fail with his signings, forces us to sack him and then the next manager gets the same excuse of not their players.
After we sacked Holden I said they should be asking all interview candidates how they would get the best out of the current squad.
Unpopular opinion: this fanbase has become so conditioned to hiring and firing managers that the slightest bad run of form results in unwarranted pressure on anyone in the hot seat.
Fans want an instant fix to a problem that will take years to sort. It’s like a child who won’t stop picking at a scab.
I just feel wary of giving Appleton too much influence on the signings when he has failed to make the best of what we currently have, if he continues to fail with his signings, forces us to sack him and then the next manager gets the same excuse of not their players.
After we sacked Holden I said they should be asking all interview candidates how they would get the best out of the current squad.
Judge Appleton on his results from now until the end of the season and how we start next. I’m sure he’ll have a much stronger squad so no excuses.
I just feel wary of giving Appleton too much influence on the signings when he has failed to make the best of what we currently have, if he continues to fail with his signings, forces us to sack him and then the next manager gets the same excuse of not their players.
After we sacked Holden I said they should be asking all interview candidates how they would get the best out of the current squad.
Judge Appleton on his results from now until the end of the season and how we start next. I’m sure he’ll have a much stronger squad so no excuses.
Oh I will if he does remain in charge, I have never been one of those fans who makes their mind up about a player or manager refuses to budge despite evidence, I have just lost all belief in him currently, think he is another ultra stuck in his ways average lower league manager living off some past minor success.
Hopefully I am wrong though if we are stuck with him.
Unpopular opinion: this fanbase has become so conditioned to hiring and firing managers that the slightest bad run of form results in unwarranted pressure on anyone in the hot seat.
Fans want an instant fix to a problem that will take years to sort. It’s like a child who won’t stop picking at a scab.
I am old and haven't got years.
Is Appleton that good though? Do you think he has any kind of unique quality that makes him stand out? To me(and I thinkk it was said by somebody else previously) he is akin to Russel (are you patient Louis?) Slade.
Rowett will do for me .. and YES I know he's an ex Millwallite but he had a very short career with us and Curbs at the time REALLY rated him .. thing is he seems to have developed a decent meedja pundit presence
Unpopular opinion: this fanbase has become so conditioned to hiring and firing managers that the slightest bad run of form results in unwarranted pressure on anyone in the hot seat.
Fans want an instant fix to a problem that will take years to sort. It’s like a child who won’t stop picking at a scab.
I think most people would happily support through a rough patch if they had any faith in the manager in the dugout. In fact I don’t seem to remember many calls for Holden to be sacked, so it can’t be that our fanbase can’t stand for a run of defeats anymore
There is very little about Appleton’s record as a manager and what we’ve seen so far that convinces me in the slightest that he is someone we should be sticking by. To me all this points to is another year wasted at this level next season
Unpopular opinion: this fanbase has become so conditioned to hiring and firing managers that the slightest bad run of form results in unwarranted pressure on anyone in the hot seat.
Fans want an instant fix to a problem that will take years to sort. It’s like a child who won’t stop picking at a scab.
I am old and haven't got years.
Is Appleton that good though? Do you think he has any kind of unique quality that makes him stand out? To me(and I thinkk it was said by somebody else previously) he is akin to Russel (are you patient Louis?) Slade.
I’m only 31 but acknowledge that even I’m in a privileged position to have seen some of the best years of Charlton under Curbs - there are now young fans who haven’t been that lucky and deserve to experience that too.
I understand the time argument you and others make but if you want the success of the ‘00s you have to be prepared to do the building of the ‘90s.
As much as we hate it, Charlton Athletic Football Club has become a joke in recent years. And it’s not because of Appleton, or Holden, or Garner. It’s because of how quickly managers and players are written off by our club, rightly or wrongly.
The club has to rebuild its reputation before the football world starts taking us seriously again. That starts with sitting on our hands for a bit and not sacking another manager after three months in charge.
Unpopular opinion: this fanbase has become so conditioned to hiring and firing managers that the slightest bad run of form results in unwarranted pressure on anyone in the hot seat.
Fans want an instant fix to a problem that will take years to sort. It’s like a child who won’t stop picking at a scab.
I think most people would happily support through a rough patch if they had any faith in the manager in the dugout. In fact I don’t seem to remember many calls for Holden to be sacked, so it can’t be that our fanbase can’t stand for a run of defeats anymore
There is very little about Appleton’s record as a manager and what we’ve seen so far that convinces me in the slightest that he is someone we should be sticking by. To me all this points to is another year wasted at this level next season
I’ll leave aside the pluses and minuses of Appleton’s record.
Garner, Holden, Appleton. The point I’m trying to make is that it doesn’t matter who it is in the dugout, we’re making a rod for our own back by being the EFL’s merry-go-round managerial circus.
Comments
The one distinction is that there is apparent separation between the actual owners/ funders and the management.
The latter can be replaced if they don't deliver in the same way the team manager could be.
Albeit I think someone posted the other day (Airman maybe) that some of the investors have already lost interest.
But theoretically this is different from a Duchatelet/ Sandgaard set up where they write the theme tune and sing the theme tune a'la Dennis Waterman.
Methven and co may have brokered the gig for themselves and got the money men in but the money men surely will have power to replace them if they consistently fail to deliver on pre- agreed targets as in a normal non- football business.
Does beg the question though whether the money men will give the funds to Scott and co if their faith in them has dwindled based on what they've seen thus far.
The fact they owned a club in the US suggests they're not Sandgaard levels of naive about the game and surely have gone into this with eyes open wider than he did. Albeit I'm aware as I type that Duchatelet also owned clubs and he stubbornly failed to learn from his Standard Liege experience.
Always better to under promise and over deliver but perhaps the opposite has happened to get the investment/ backing in the first place and that will come home to roost when the Americans look at our league position and 2 thirds empty ground with apathetic boos ringing out.
Yes we have too many mediocre players at the club, but so did Curbs and he was adept at getting the best out of the whole. No-one will convince me a good manager wouldn't find a way to manage the last 5 minutes of a game, couldn't see that Chem Campbell is way short of what's needed in a number 10, or that Watson's energy and skill move the game up the pitch and spark our attacking players.
It's so depressingly predictable.
We need a complete root and branch nuclear option rebuild. Its bigger than the coach (whoever that may be). Recruitment is part of it but its more that the club as a whole is stuck in a colossal rut and it needs a visionary with deep pockets to dig us out of it. I don't think either Scott or Methven are that person.
I planted the seed a little while ago, and ask again in a typically obtuse fashion.
If Andy Scott and Michael Appleton are not on speaking terms, and have not been on speaking terms about anything substantial or meaningful for weeks now, how are they going to progress the club?
The situation is far from a buck up, but closer to something that rhymes with that, the terrifying reality is that all those playing around with OUR club can happily walk away with the mental and emotional detachment that we as fans don’t have.
We suffer, they shrug.
I say get rid of Appleton and start again.
One day we will get lucky and end up with another Curbs or Lennie. Not every manager is shite. By the law of averages employ enough managers and eventually we will strike gold.
After we sacked Holden I said they should be asking all interview candidates how they would get the best out of the current squad.
Fans want an instant fix to a problem that will take years to sort. It’s like a child who won’t stop picking at a scab.
Hopefully I am wrong though if we are stuck with him.
Is Appleton that good though? Do you think he has any kind of unique quality that makes him stand out? To me(and I thinkk it was said by somebody else previously) he is akin to Russel (are you patient Louis?) Slade.
I understand the time argument you and others make but if you want the success of the ‘00s you have to be prepared to do the building of the ‘90s.
As much as we hate it, Charlton Athletic Football Club has become a joke in recent years. And it’s not because of Appleton, or Holden, or Garner. It’s because of how quickly managers and players are written off by our club, rightly or wrongly.
The club has to rebuild its reputation before the football world starts taking us seriously again. That starts with sitting on our hands for a bit and not sacking another manager after three months in charge.
Put a bloody stop to it and fix the club first.
Much more to do with poor recruitment of both players & managers by the decision makers over the last number of years.
Ultimately it comes down to if you think Appleton & the latest recruits are a change of fortune in that previous poor recruitment.
I am yet to be convinced but again, hope I am wrong.