I disagree that are club is failing due to how quickly we write off players & managers.
Much more to do with poor recruitment of both players & managers by the decision makers over the last number of years.
Ultimately it comes down to if you think Appleton & the latest recruits are a change of fortune in that previous poor recruitment.
I am yet to be convinced but again, hope I am wrong.
And what I’m saying is that we’ve been unable to convince the better managers (and possibly players) because they take one look at our basket case club and say no thanks. It’s a vicious cycle.
Short of being taken over by a wealthy Charlton fan who makes all the right moves, there’s little that can be done to buy our way out of the reputation we’ve created for ourselves. The only realistic fix is time. And the longer we keep chopping and changing, the longer we will have to wait before things get better.
Stick with someone for a while, build something with them, even if it’s painful in the short term, and maybe we’ll start to see players and managers wanting to join us.
I disagree that are club is failing due to how quickly we write off players & managers.
Much more to do with poor recruitment of both players & managers by the decision makers over the last number of years.
Ultimately it comes down to if you think Appleton & the latest recruits are a change of fortune in that previous poor recruitment.
I am yet to be convinced but again, hope I am wrong.
Agree with this, Appleton, Holden and Garner are below the level of manager that sides pushing for promotion should be appointing at this level. We need to give a manager time and resources but we need a good manager first before we do that
If we had a better manager in the dugout like a Michael Duff, with recent consistent success on his CV, then I’d happily give him the time and resources to get us up. With Appletons record and performance so far, I just don’t think we should be trusting him with that time and resource
The younger players performed better under Holden.
Yes, to an extent. The problem is that Holden, Garner and Appleton should be nowhere this role in the first place. It’s the level we’ve descended to. I’ve never been one to believe we’re a big club and should be at a better level, but I truly believe that with our history and the size of the club (comparatively speaking), the likes of Garner and Holden we’re lucky to even get an interview
Garner perhaps got lucky, as for Holden Christmas came early.
Unpopular opinion: this fanbase has become so conditioned to hiring and firing managers that the slightest bad run of form results in unwarranted pressure on anyone in the hot seat.
Fans want an instant fix to a problem that will take years to sort. It’s like a child who won’t stop picking at a scab.
I am old and haven't got years.
Is Appleton that good though? Do you think he has any kind of unique quality that makes him stand out? To me(and I thinkk it was said by somebody else previously) he is akin to Russel (are you patient Louis?) Slade.
100% with you on this, Seth.
Don't believe I've called out to sack a manager as early in his tenure as now. And that's in over 50 years of support.
If I thought that MA could turn things around by the end of this season, with a few new players in his squad & a couple of those injured, returning , then I'd be magnanimous & give him that opportunity.
But, I'm afraid it will purely be delaying the inevitable and in that time period, more of the faithful will walk away, perhaps for good.
A well known Lifer who is currently unable to post on here declared a week or so ago when we met up that our club has no identity any more. L1 mid table also rans. And more concerning, with little hope of pushing the boat out for a decent manager and giving him time to build a successful squad, in danger of dying ( as others have recently stated too)
Without success, progress even, or just exciting football to watch, it goes without saying that youngsters won't be prepared to come to taste the football on offer in SE7, let alone travel to away grounds. And as Seth posted, hundreds, maybe thousands of us are getting to the stage where we may not be as resilient as we were & at some point may question whether the fortnightly journey to The Valley is a chore as opposed to a pleasure....and season ticket sales could well plummet.
THESE are the fans who were fortunate to be around in the Premier years and indeed, in the Championship. At present, the perceived lack of enjoyment & excitement at our matches is there for all to witness. I remarked last night at Bristol how loud & proud the noise & singing was from all the home areas of the ground, with the last time I could recall similarly at The Valley being at the most recent Play Off semi final. Pretty heartbreaking stuff for us "wrinklies" to think we may not be around if/when those days return.
Something has to change - that's obvious. Whether it be in player recruitment or changing the manager but NOT simply by playing the managerial musical chairs/dugout game we seem addickted to. Currently we just have a seat on the L1 carousel & going nowhere fast....or worse.
Big decisions for those Board members to take sooner rather than later before the window slams shut.
Sadly, I feel it's beyond them to take the best decision for our famous football club.
One day we will get lucky and end up with another Curbs or Lennie. Not every manager is shite. By the law of averages employ enough managers and eventually we will strike gold.
I disagree that are club is failing due to how quickly we write off players & managers.
Much more to do with poor recruitment of both players & managers by the decision makers over the last number of years.
Ultimately it comes down to if you think Appleton & the latest recruits are a change of fortune in that previous poor recruitment.
I am yet to be convinced but again, hope I am wrong.
And what I’m saying is that we’ve been unable to convince the better managers (and possibly players) because they take one look at our basket case club and say no thanks. It’s a vicious cycle.
Short of being taken over by a wealthy Charlton fan who makes all the right moves, there’s little that can be done to buy our way out of the reputation we’ve created for ourselves. The only realistic fix is time. And the longer we keep chopping and changing, the longer we will have to wait before things get better.
Stick with someone for a while, build something with them, even if it’s painful in the short term, and maybe we’ll start to see players and managers wanting to join us.
Players especially will go to the club that makes the best financial offer.
Managers will too if the decision makers set out a believable vision to them.
I really disagree with the notion that we need to be stable but poor/average club for a season or two to then be able to recruit a good manager & players.
We need decision makers to make better judgement and owners to give a realistic budget.
The way I see it is that Appleton is an average league one manager with an average league one squad.
This is how it has been on the whole for ages now. Which is why we will have some periods where we will win games and some periods where we will lose games - and why we inevitably end up in mid table.
I think as with every average manager if you give them the correct squad, the likelihood is that they will then win more than they lose. Appleton had a period where we had pretty much the whole squad available, and we strung together some good results and he was praised for his use of subs etc.
We start to lose some players and then lack the depth, and inevitably Appleton is not an exceptional enough manager to get the results we require.
Of course it is the managers responsibility to be able to react to get teams playing through injury issues, but it shows how important some key players are to the performance of the squad especially when your recruitment has been poor for some time.
Which of course I think we can all agree ours has been in recent seasons, and not necessarily for lack of resources spent, but for a complete lack of plan and being spent incorrectly.
I am sure if you gave Appleton an above average squad he would get above average results, or if we have an above average manager he would do better with the current squad we have.
The way I see it is that Appleton is an average league one manager with an average league one squad.
This is how it has been on the whole for ages now. Which is why we will have some periods where we will win games and some periods where we will lose games - and why we inevitably end up in mid table.
I think as with every average manager if you give them the correct squad, the likelihood is that they will then win more than they lose. Appleton had a period where we had pretty much the whole squad available, and we strung together some good results and he was praised for his use of subs etc.
We start to lose some players and then lack the depth, and inevitably Appleton is not an exceptional enough manager to get the results we require.
Of course it is the managers responsibility to be able to react to get teams playing through injury issues, but it shows how important some key players are to the performance of the squad especially when your recruitment has been poor for some time.
Which of course I think we can all agree ours has been in recent seasons, and not necessarily for lack of resources spent, but for a complete lack of plan and being spent incorrectly.
I am sure if you gave Appleton an above average squad he would get above average results, or if we have an above average manager he would do better with the current squad we have.
Average squad, average third division club (atm) with an average manager. I tend to agree, but couldn't Appleton at least entertain us on the mouth organ at half time, or get a scriptwriter to arm him with some funny or memorable one liners in his post match interviews, or patrol the technical area in a sparkly outfit like this:
I mean if he can't get us promoted, he could at least be something more than a cliché ridden moaner and entertain the fans.
I disagree that are club is failing due to how quickly we write off players & managers.
Much more to do with poor recruitment of both players & managers by the decision makers over the last number of years.
Ultimately it comes down to if you think Appleton & the latest recruits are a change of fortune in that previous poor recruitment.
I am yet to be convinced but again, hope I am wrong.
And what I’m saying is that we’ve been unable to convince the better managers (and possibly players) because they take one look at our basket case club and say no thanks. It’s a vicious cycle.
Short of being taken over by a wealthy Charlton fan who makes all the right moves, there’s little that can be done to buy our way out of the reputation we’ve created for ourselves. The only realistic fix is time. And the longer we keep chopping and changing, the longer we will have to wait before things get better.
Stick with someone for a while, build something with them, even if it’s painful in the short term, and maybe we’ll start to see players and managers wanting to join us.
Players especially will go to the club that makes the best financial offer.
Managers will too if the decision makers set out a believable vision to them.
I really disagree with the notion that we need to be stable but poor/average club for a season or two to then be able to recruit a good manager & players.
We need decision makers to make better judgement and owners to give a realistic budget.
You make it sound so easy. We have proof that managers have turned us down for exactly the reasons I’ve given.
If you want to get rid of Appleton now, the best we can expect is the Cowleys. If you want to carry on with the rotation of managers going nowhere, you’re welcome to it. But don’t expect it to result in Charlton being successful.
Talk of Duff, Rowett, Eustace etc is fanciful with the club in its current state. If we’re gonna be stuck in mid table League One, we might as well do it while not sacking a manager three times a year.
I disagree that are club is failing due to how quickly we write off players & managers.
Much more to do with poor recruitment of both players & managers by the decision makers over the last number of years.
Ultimately it comes down to if you think Appleton & the latest recruits are a change of fortune in that previous poor recruitment.
I am yet to be convinced but again, hope I am wrong.
And what I’m saying is that we’ve been unable to convince the better managers (and possibly players) because they take one look at our basket case club and say no thanks. It’s a vicious cycle.
Short of being taken over by a wealthy Charlton fan who makes all the right moves, there’s little that can be done to buy our way out of the reputation we’ve created for ourselves. The only realistic fix is time. And the longer we keep chopping and changing, the longer we will have to wait before things get better.
Stick with someone for a while, build something with them, even if it’s painful in the short term, and maybe we’ll start to see players and managers wanting to join us.
Players especially will go to the club that makes the best financial offer.
Managers will too if the decision makers set out a believable vision to them.
I really disagree with the notion that we need to be stable but poor/average club for a season or two to then be able to recruit a good manager & players.
We need decision makers to make better judgement and owners to give a realistic budget.
You make it sound so easy. We have proof that managers have turned us down for exactly the reasons I’ve given.
If you want to get rid of Appleton now, the best we can expect is the Cowleys. If you want to carry on with the rotation of managers going nowhere, you’re welcome to it. But don’t expect it to result in Charlton being successful.
Talk of Duff, Rowett, Eustace etc is fanciful with the club in its current state. If we’re gonna be stuck in mid table League One, we might as well do it while not sacking a manager three times a year.
What would be the most expensive option for the Board ?
A ......Continuing to appoint mediocre / musical dugout types and then pay them off for A N Other 6 months later ?
or B......Spend that money by investing it in a manager with some degree of success in their background, give him a budget with which to strengthen his squad and 2 full seasons to prove himself ?
I disagree that are club is failing due to how quickly we write off players & managers.
Much more to do with poor recruitment of both players & managers by the decision makers over the last number of years.
Ultimately it comes down to if you think Appleton & the latest recruits are a change of fortune in that previous poor recruitment.
I am yet to be convinced but again, hope I am wrong.
And what I’m saying is that we’ve been unable to convince the better managers (and possibly players) because they take one look at our basket case club and say no thanks. It’s a vicious cycle.
Short of being taken over by a wealthy Charlton fan who makes all the right moves, there’s little that can be done to buy our way out of the reputation we’ve created for ourselves. The only realistic fix is time. And the longer we keep chopping and changing, the longer we will have to wait before things get better.
Stick with someone for a while, build something with them, even if it’s painful in the short term, and maybe we’ll start to see players and managers wanting to join us.
Players especially will go to the club that makes the best financial offer.
Managers will too if the decision makers set out a believable vision to them.
I really disagree with the notion that we need to be stable but poor/average club for a season or two to then be able to recruit a good manager & players.
We need decision makers to make better judgement and owners to give a realistic budget.
You make it sound so easy. We have proof that managers have turned us down for exactly the reasons I’ve given.
If you want to get rid of Appleton now, the best we can expect is the Cowleys. If you want to carry on with the rotation of managers going nowhere, you’re welcome to it. But don’t expect it to result in Charlton being successful.
Talk of Duff, Rowett, Eustace etc is fanciful with the club in its current state. If we’re gonna be stuck in mid table League One, we might as well do it while not sacking a manager three times a year.
Do we have proof they turned us down due to us firing Holden too quickly?
Seems more likely they had little trust in those running our clubs budget & vision.
So we ended up with a journeyman yesterday's man 4th choice.
I disagree that are club is failing due to how quickly we write off players & managers.
Much more to do with poor recruitment of both players & managers by the decision makers over the last number of years.
Ultimately it comes down to if you think Appleton & the latest recruits are a change of fortune in that previous poor recruitment.
I am yet to be convinced but again, hope I am wrong.
And what I’m saying is that we’ve been unable to convince the better managers (and possibly players) because they take one look at our basket case club and say no thanks. It’s a vicious cycle.
Short of being taken over by a wealthy Charlton fan who makes all the right moves, there’s little that can be done to buy our way out of the reputation we’ve created for ourselves. The only realistic fix is time. And the longer we keep chopping and changing, the longer we will have to wait before things get better.
Stick with someone for a while, build something with them, even if it’s painful in the short term, and maybe we’ll start to see players and managers wanting to join us.
Players especially will go to the club that makes the best financial offer.
Managers will too if the decision makers set out a believable vision to them.
I really disagree with the notion that we need to be stable but poor/average club for a season or two to then be able to recruit a good manager & players.
We need decision makers to make better judgement and owners to give a realistic budget.
You make it sound so easy. We have proof that managers have turned us down for exactly the reasons I’ve given.
If you want to get rid of Appleton now, the best we can expect is the Cowleys. If you want to carry on with the rotation of managers going nowhere, you’re welcome to it. But don’t expect it to result in Charlton being successful.
Talk of Duff, Rowett, Eustace etc is fanciful with the club in its current state. If we’re gonna be stuck in mid table League One, we might as well do it while not sacking a manager three times a year.
What would be the most expensive option for the Board ?
A ......Continuing to appoint mediocre / musical dugout types and then pay them off for A N Other 6 months later ?
or B......Spend that money by investing it in a manager with some degree of success in their background, give him a budget with which to strengthen his squad and 2 full seasons to prove himself ?
I disagree that are club is failing due to how quickly we write off players & managers.
Much more to do with poor recruitment of both players & managers by the decision makers over the last number of years.
Ultimately it comes down to if you think Appleton & the latest recruits are a change of fortune in that previous poor recruitment.
I am yet to be convinced but again, hope I am wrong.
And what I’m saying is that we’ve been unable to convince the better managers (and possibly players) because they take one look at our basket case club and say no thanks. It’s a vicious cycle.
Short of being taken over by a wealthy Charlton fan who makes all the right moves, there’s little that can be done to buy our way out of the reputation we’ve created for ourselves. The only realistic fix is time. And the longer we keep chopping and changing, the longer we will have to wait before things get better.
Stick with someone for a while, build something with them, even if it’s painful in the short term, and maybe we’ll start to see players and managers wanting to join us.
Players especially will go to the club that makes the best financial offer.
Managers will too if the decision makers set out a believable vision to them.
I really disagree with the notion that we need to be stable but poor/average club for a season or two to then be able to recruit a good manager & players.
We need decision makers to make better judgement and owners to give a realistic budget.
You make it sound so easy. We have proof that managers have turned us down for exactly the reasons I’ve given.
If you want to get rid of Appleton now, the best we can expect is the Cowleys. If you want to carry on with the rotation of managers going nowhere, you’re welcome to it. But don’t expect it to result in Charlton being successful.
Talk of Duff, Rowett, Eustace etc is fanciful with the club in its current state. If we’re gonna be stuck in mid table League One, we might as well do it while not sacking a manager three times a year.
Do we have proof they turned us down due to us firing Holden too quickly?
Seems more likely they had little trust in those running our clubs budget & vision.
So we ended up with a journeyman yesterday's man 4th choice.
The options you are both presenting involve spending money that doesn’t exist to be spent. 🤷♂️
Appleton was told there’d be money to spend. I don’t doubt that Darren Ferguson and Dave Challinor were told the same thing before Appleton was appointed - getting the best manager for the job is no longer that simple for Charlton Athletic.
What was the difference between Appleton and the other two? Ferguson and Challinor were doing well at stable clubs in stable roles and didn’t trust what they were told.
If we want to attract those up and coming managers, the club is going to have to prove it with actions not words.
I disagree that are club is failing due to how quickly we write off players & managers.
Much more to do with poor recruitment of both players & managers by the decision makers over the last number of years.
Ultimately it comes down to if you think Appleton & the latest recruits are a change of fortune in that previous poor recruitment.
I am yet to be convinced but again, hope I am wrong.
And what I’m saying is that we’ve been unable to convince the better managers (and possibly players) because they take one look at our basket case club and say no thanks. It’s a vicious cycle.
Short of being taken over by a wealthy Charlton fan who makes all the right moves, there’s little that can be done to buy our way out of the reputation we’ve created for ourselves. The only realistic fix is time. And the longer we keep chopping and changing, the longer we will have to wait before things get better.
Stick with someone for a while, build something with them, even if it’s painful in the short term, and maybe we’ll start to see players and managers wanting to join us.
Players especially will go to the club that makes the best financial offer.
Managers will too if the decision makers set out a believable vision to them.
I really disagree with the notion that we need to be stable but poor/average club for a season or two to then be able to recruit a good manager & players.
We need decision makers to make better judgement and owners to give a realistic budget.
You make it sound so easy. We have proof that managers have turned us down for exactly the reasons I’ve given.
If you want to get rid of Appleton now, the best we can expect is the Cowleys. If you want to carry on with the rotation of managers going nowhere, you’re welcome to it. But don’t expect it to result in Charlton being successful.
Talk of Duff, Rowett, Eustace etc is fanciful with the club in its current state. If we’re gonna be stuck in mid table League One, we might as well do it while not sacking a manager three times a year.
If you pay Duff enough then he would join. He didn’t do that well at swansea, so his next job will be bottom champ/top L1.
Owners keep bigging up their investment for the transfer window, we should also be spending on pushing the boat out to get a top manager in, and that is probably more important
Appleton is reminding me too much of the Slade era. Found the appointment uninspired when it was made and it just feels like it's not going to end well for him or the club.
As for replacements , can rule out Mowbray, Alex Neil, Rowett and probably John Eustace as they'll all be eyeing up staying at championship level.
Even if we can’t attract one of those names mentioned. Lee Bowyer would be interested, he’s got more league 1 promotions than Appleton for a start
We need a manager to unite the fanbase, build a promotion winning squad and a manager that works best with playing 2 strikers. We know Bowyer can do that because he’s done it already
1 - the owners are useless chancers 2- the current manager is useless, not “average” 3- the current squad is average with a few good players and nothing more 4 - the loanees are mostly useless
A fish rots from the head…..Gobby Methven and his band are our real problem along with the toxic Belgian. Our club will not have any chance until the ownership is good.
I am not hopeful of any improvement, but am more concerned we will disappear with those idiots in control at the top
I disagree that are club is failing due to how quickly we write off players & managers.
Much more to do with poor recruitment of both players & managers by the decision makers over the last number of years.
Ultimately it comes down to if you think Appleton & the latest recruits are a change of fortune in that previous poor recruitment.
I am yet to be convinced but again, hope I am wrong.
And what I’m saying is that we’ve been unable to convince the better managers (and possibly players) because they take one look at our basket case club and say no thanks. It’s a vicious cycle.
Short of being taken over by a wealthy Charlton fan who makes all the right moves, there’s little that can be done to buy our way out of the reputation we’ve created for ourselves. The only realistic fix is time. And the longer we keep chopping and changing, the longer we will have to wait before things get better.
Stick with someone for a while, build something with them, even if it’s painful in the short term, and maybe we’ll start to see players and managers wanting to join us.
Players especially will go to the club that makes the best financial offer.
Managers will too if the decision makers set out a believable vision to them.
I really disagree with the notion that we need to be stable but poor/average club for a season or two to then be able to recruit a good manager & players.
We need decision makers to make better judgement and owners to give a realistic budget.
You make it sound so easy. We have proof that managers have turned us down for exactly the reasons I’ve given.
If you want to get rid of Appleton now, the best we can expect is the Cowleys. If you want to carry on with the rotation of managers going nowhere, you’re welcome to it. But don’t expect it to result in Charlton being successful.
Talk of Duff, Rowett, Eustace etc is fanciful with the club in its current state. If we’re gonna be stuck in mid table League One, we might as well do it while not sacking a manager three times a year.
If you pay Duff enough then he would join. He didn’t do that well at swansea, so his next job will be bottom champ/top L1.
Owners keep bigging up their investment for the transfer window, we should also be spending on pushing the boat out to get a top manager in, and that is probably more important
I disagree that are club is failing due to how quickly we write off players & managers.
Much more to do with poor recruitment of both players & managers by the decision makers over the last number of years.
Ultimately it comes down to if you think Appleton & the latest recruits are a change of fortune in that previous poor recruitment.
I am yet to be convinced but again, hope I am wrong.
And what I’m saying is that we’ve been unable to convince the better managers (and possibly players) because they take one look at our basket case club and say no thanks. It’s a vicious cycle.
Short of being taken over by a wealthy Charlton fan who makes all the right moves, there’s little that can be done to buy our way out of the reputation we’ve created for ourselves. The only realistic fix is time. And the longer we keep chopping and changing, the longer we will have to wait before things get better.
Stick with someone for a while, build something with them, even if it’s painful in the short term, and maybe we’ll start to see players and managers wanting to join us.
Players especially will go to the club that makes the best financial offer.
Managers will too if the decision makers set out a believable vision to them.
I really disagree with the notion that we need to be stable but poor/average club for a season or two to then be able to recruit a good manager & players.
We need decision makers to make better judgement and owners to give a realistic budget.
You make it sound so easy. We have proof that managers have turned us down for exactly the reasons I’ve given.
If you want to get rid of Appleton now, the best we can expect is the Cowleys. If you want to carry on with the rotation of managers going nowhere, you’re welcome to it. But don’t expect it to result in Charlton being successful.
Talk of Duff, Rowett, Eustace etc is fanciful with the club in its current state. If we’re gonna be stuck in mid table League One, we might as well do it while not sacking a manager three times a year.
If you pay Duff enough then he would join. He didn’t do that well at swansea, so his next job will be bottom champ/top L1.
Owners keep bigging up their investment for the transfer window, we should also be spending on pushing the boat out to get a top manager in, and that is probably more important
These idiots gave us Appleton ….nothing more to say.
1 - the owners are useless chancers 2- the current manager is useless, not “average” 3- the current squad is average with a few good players and nothing more 4 - the loanees are mostly useless
A fish rots from the head…..Gobby Methven and his band are our real problem along with the toxic Belgian. Our club will not have any chance until the ownership is good.
I am not hopeful of any improvement, but am more concerned we will disappear with those idiots in control at the top
I would say:
1 - I don’t trust them to get it right, but currently there is no real evidence of this.
2 - He is literally the definition of average league manager for his level, and his stats reflect this.
3 - Agreed, though I think it shows how much a few good players can change a teams results.
4 - Agreed, but don’t think it’s helped that they barely seem get to be played in their proper positions - and mainly because they were brought in for a different formation to what we play.
Everything that's wrong with modern football fans in a thread.
We've lost 3 games under Appleton.
THREE.
In 16(?) Games.
We lost more than that in the first 5 games of the season FFS.
And if he was sacked, what message does that send out about the new owners? You think that would lead to managers of a decent quality queuing out the door wanting to work with them?
If that was Chris Powell most of you would be clamouring to "give him time", "he hasn't had a proper window to sort out his team yet", "at least he's movednus away from the relegation places".
It's pathetic, some of our fans are so deluded it's unreal
How many games have we won?
Let's not accept mediocrity. We want to get promoted from this league, which involves winning. We have not strung two back-to-back league wins in the sixteen L1 games he's been here.
Appleton should never have been appointed in the first place; this is not the inspirational, forward-thinking candidate that you choose to head up your exciting new project; he is by nature, a mid-table plodder and a standard cheap option for an unambitious board.
That told us all we needed to know about our brave new era under Methven and Co.
Yet another era of cheap options, sub-standard personnel and the desperate throwing of the dice in the vain hopes that you will somehow get luck[y and manage to achieve success, by luck, rather than judgement.
It's been said before, but the impending doom for our once great club began when Mr Murray decided that becoming part of a deluded, egotistical Belgian's pie in the sky network was a decent option in terms of stability.
The resultant separation of ground from playing assets has proved a big enough red flag to frighten off multiple successive potential suitors who could have actually dragged this club back up from the doldrums. Without this albatross around our collective necks, there is no reason why we could not be seen as an attractive investment proposition given our location and the current fashion amongst US and Middle-Eastern investors, in particular.
So all we have left are chancers; the type who appoint the terminally mediocre and then cross their collective fingers that this will somehow transform into on-field success.
The type who buy constantly injured but good players and cross their collective fingers that they will somehow miraculously stay fit and deliver success on the pitch, rather than spend the majority of their contract on the treatment table.
The type who will throw young, promising, untested youth players into the fray, destroying their fragile confidence in the hopes that......well, you get the point.
So, what will their next throw of the dice be?
I'd like them to appoint someone distinctly un-mediocre as the next manager (as we are clearly going nowhere but downwards under the current incumbent), but sadly it is most likely that they either won't touch us with a bargepole, or that the management are simply not prepared to spend the money prepared to do so.
As for January reinforcements, until the above is resolved, it will just be more waste upon the millions wasted already to no discernible benefit.
Depressing as it may be, I can't see things improving, indeed if they ever do, for some considerable time. If you keep serving up shit, you cannot expect supporters to lap it up, so our crowds will dwindle and we will face the prospect of a demise due to sheer apathy.
All that we can do is adopt a classic Charlton mindset that has served us well for years; expect the worst but hope for the best.
I wish that I could be more optimistic, but I am a realist.
Most didn’t want Appleton, me included, if he is backed unlike previous managers he will get us up imo, sure we would all like a manager with a connection with the club but there isn’t any (ready) yet, we cannot keep sacking managers without giving them a chance.
Bowyer fell apart spectacularly in his last season, not just with bullying little Jonny Williams but also more importantly on the field. What would happen with him and the current crop doesn't bear thinking about. Campbells and Watsons in tears everywhere
Lol. I bet Williams is bigger than Bowyer.
Besides, everyone complains that our team is now soft - they bloody wouldn’t be under Bowyer. Who cares if they started crying - they’d have to learn to bloody toughen up (as long as the board and fans make it clear that all this ’losing the dressing room’ nonsense won’t wash’and the manager has our full support).
Clough would these days would be seen as a bully in this cotton wool society, and England would lose out on the best manager of a generation.
Bowyer is the best manager we’ve had since Powell, perhaps even since Curbs.
1 - the owners are useless chancers 2- the current manager is useless, not “average” 3- the current squad is average with a few good players and nothing more 4 - the loanees are mostly useless
A fish rots from the head…..Gobby Methven and his band are our real problem along with the toxic Belgian. Our club will not have any chance until the ownership is good.
I am not hopeful of any improvement, but am more concerned we will disappear with those idiots in control at the top
As much as it pains me - Tony Mowbray is out of work. He may be a bit boring but he’s quite effective and knows how to coach a defence.
Alternatively Michael Duff performed well until his last job.
as daft as it might seem getting rid of Appleton …I was at the Cray Valley and Gillingham games and they remain 2 of the worst games in my lifetime. Not only that…Appleton has lost a lot of the goodwill of the fans and it’s incredibly hard to win it back.
As much as it pains me - Tony Mowbray is out of work. He may be a bit boring but he’s quite effective and knows how to coach a defence.
Alternatively Michael Duff performed well until his last job.
as daft as it might seem getting rid of Appleton …I was at the Cray Valley and Gillingham games and they remain 2 of the worst games in my lifetime. Not only that…Appleton has lost a lot of the goodwill of the fans and it’s incredibly hard to win it back.
Much will depend on if the new signings can turn things around for us on the pitch. If we start to climb the league I think the fans will expect he gets the summer window as well. If we still look dire despite a few half decent reinforcements then I think he might have a problem. I’d be shocked if he didn’t at least start next season.
One day we will get lucky and end up with another Curbs or Lennie. Not every manager is shite. By the law of averages employ enough managers and eventually we will strike gold.
There's a common factor at play here. The squad of players are shite.
Pep or Klopp would struggle to get this lot anywhere near the play offs. We haven't had a decent full back for what seems like years, our centre backs are poor and there's no creativity in midfield.
So we can continue recycling managers every few months and hope we 'strike gold' but it's far more likely that we won't do anything until the squad is actually improved.
1 - the owners are useless chancers 2- the current manager is useless, not “average” 3- the current squad is average with a few good players and nothing more 4 - the loanees are mostly useless
A fish rots from the head…..Gobby Methven and his band are our real problem along with the toxic Belgian. Our club will not have any chance until the ownership is good.
I am not hopeful of any improvement, but am more concerned we will disappear with those idiots in control at the top
Which owners are useless chancers exactly please.
Methven and the people who have him a small share in the club.
Comments
Short of being taken over by a wealthy Charlton fan who makes all the right moves, there’s little that can be done to buy our way out of the reputation we’ve created for ourselves. The only realistic fix is time. And the longer we keep chopping and changing, the longer we will have to wait before things get better.
Stick with someone for a while, build something with them, even if it’s painful in the short term, and maybe we’ll start to see players and managers wanting to join us.
Don't believe I've called out to sack a manager as early in his tenure as now. And that's in over 50 years of support.
If I thought that MA could turn things around by the end of this season, with a few new players in his squad & a couple of those injured, returning , then I'd be magnanimous & give him that opportunity.
But, I'm afraid it will purely be delaying the inevitable and in that time period, more of the faithful will walk away, perhaps for good.
A well known Lifer who is currently unable to post on here declared a week or so ago when we met up that our club has no identity any more. L1 mid table also rans. And more concerning, with little hope of pushing the boat out for a decent manager and giving him time to build a successful squad, in danger of dying ( as others have recently stated too)
Without success, progress even, or just exciting football to watch, it goes without saying that youngsters won't be prepared to come to taste the football on offer in SE7, let alone travel to away grounds. And as Seth posted, hundreds, maybe thousands of us are getting to the stage where we may not be as resilient as we were & at some point may question whether the fortnightly journey to The Valley is a chore as opposed to a pleasure....and season ticket sales could well plummet.
THESE are the fans who were fortunate to be around in the Premier years and indeed, in the Championship. At present, the perceived lack of enjoyment & excitement at our matches is there for all to witness. I remarked last night at Bristol how loud & proud the noise & singing was from all the home areas of the ground, with the last time I could recall similarly at The Valley being at the most recent Play Off semi final. Pretty heartbreaking stuff for us "wrinklies" to think we may not be around if/when those days return.
Something has to change - that's obvious. Whether it be in player recruitment or changing the manager but NOT simply by playing the managerial musical chairs/dugout game we seem addickted to. Currently we just have a seat on the L1 carousel & going nowhere fast....or worse.
Big decisions for those Board members to take sooner rather than later before the window slams shut.
Sadly, I feel it's beyond them to take the best decision for our famous football club.
Managers will too if the decision makers set out a believable vision to them.
I really disagree with the notion that we need to be stable but poor/average club for a season or two to then be able to recruit a good manager & players.
We need decision makers to make better judgement and owners to give a realistic budget.
This is how it has been on the whole for ages now. Which is why we will have some periods where we will win games and some periods where we will lose games - and why we inevitably end up in mid table.
I think as with every average manager if you give them the correct squad, the likelihood is that they will then win more than they lose. Appleton had a period where we had pretty much the whole squad available, and we strung together some good results and he was praised for his use of subs etc.
We start to lose some players and then lack the depth, and inevitably Appleton is not an exceptional enough manager to get the results we require.
Of course it is the managers responsibility to be able to react to get teams playing through injury issues, but it shows how important some key players are to the performance of the squad especially when your recruitment has been poor for some time.
Which of course I think we can all agree ours has been in recent seasons, and not necessarily for lack of resources spent, but for a complete lack of plan and being spent incorrectly.
I am sure if you gave Appleton an above average squad he would get above average results, or if we have an above average manager he would do better with the current squad we have.
https://archive.is/GU3Bd
A vegan!
I tend to agree, but couldn't Appleton at least entertain us on the mouth organ at half time, or get a scriptwriter to arm him with some funny or memorable one liners in his post match interviews, or patrol the technical area in a sparkly outfit like this:
I mean if he can't get us promoted, he could at least be something more than a cliché ridden moaner and entertain the fans.
If you want to get rid of Appleton now, the best we can expect is the Cowleys. If you want to carry on with the rotation of managers going nowhere, you’re welcome to it. But don’t expect it to result in Charlton being successful.
A ......Continuing to appoint mediocre / musical dugout types and then pay them off for A N Other 6 months later ?
or B......Spend that money by investing it in a manager with some degree of success in their background, give him a budget with which to strengthen his squad and 2 full seasons to prove himself ?
No guesses for the option I'd take.
Seems more likely they had little trust in those running our clubs budget & vision.
So we ended up with a journeyman yesterday's man 4th choice.
Appleton was told there’d be money to spend. I don’t doubt that Darren Ferguson and Dave Challinor were told the same thing before Appleton was appointed - getting the best manager for the job is no longer that simple for Charlton Athletic.
What was the difference between Appleton and the other two? Ferguson and Challinor were doing well at stable clubs in stable roles and didn’t trust what they were told.
If we want to attract those up and coming managers, the club is going to have to prove it with actions not words.
So find it bizarre to use it as an excuse for us to continue to accept failure.
As for replacements , can rule out Mowbray, Alex Neil, Rowett and probably John Eustace as they'll all be eyeing up staying at championship level.
We need a manager to unite the fanbase, build a promotion winning squad and a manager that works best with playing 2 strikers. We know Bowyer can do that because he’s done it already
2- the current manager is useless, not “average”
3- the current squad is average with a few good players and nothing more
4 - the loanees are mostly useless
A fish rots from the head…..Gobby Methven and his band are our real problem along with the toxic Belgian. Our club will not have any chance until the ownership is good.
I am not hopeful of any improvement, but am more concerned we will disappear with those idiots in control at the top
1 - I don’t trust them to get it right, but currently there is no real evidence of this.
3 - Agreed, though I think it shows how much a few good players can change a teams results.
4 - Agreed, but don’t think it’s helped that they barely seem get to be played in their proper positions - and mainly because they were brought in for a different formation to what we play.
Say no more.
That told us all we needed to know about our brave new era under Methven and Co.
Yet another era of cheap options, sub-standard personnel and the desperate throwing of the dice in the vain hopes that you will somehow get luck[y and manage to achieve success, by luck, rather than judgement.
It's been said before, but the impending doom for our once great club began when Mr Murray decided that becoming part of a deluded, egotistical Belgian's pie in the sky network was a decent option in terms of stability.
The resultant separation of ground from playing assets has proved a big enough red flag to frighten off multiple successive potential suitors who could have actually dragged this club back up from the doldrums. Without this albatross around our collective necks, there is no reason why we could not be seen as an attractive investment proposition given our location and the current fashion amongst US and Middle-Eastern investors, in particular.
So all we have left are chancers; the type who appoint the terminally mediocre and then cross their collective fingers that this will somehow transform into on-field success.
The type who buy constantly injured but good players and cross their collective fingers that they will somehow miraculously stay fit and deliver success on the pitch, rather than spend the majority of their contract on the treatment table.
The type who will throw young, promising, untested youth players into the fray, destroying their fragile confidence in the hopes that......well, you get the point.
So, what will their next throw of the dice be?
I'd like them to appoint someone distinctly un-mediocre as the next manager (as we are clearly going nowhere but downwards under the current incumbent), but sadly it is most likely that they either won't touch us with a bargepole, or that the management are simply not prepared to spend the money prepared to do so.
As for January reinforcements, until the above is resolved, it will just be more waste upon the millions wasted already to no discernible benefit.
Depressing as it may be, I can't see things improving, indeed if they ever do, for some considerable time. If you keep serving up shit, you cannot expect supporters to lap it up, so our crowds will dwindle and we will face the prospect of a demise due to sheer apathy.
All that we can do is adopt a classic Charlton mindset that has served us well for years; expect the worst but hope for the best.
I wish that I could be more optimistic, but I am a realist.
Happy New Year, Addicks.
Besides, everyone complains that our team is now soft - they bloody wouldn’t be under Bowyer. Who cares if they started crying - they’d have to learn to bloody toughen up (as long as the board and fans make it clear that all this ’losing the dressing room’ nonsense won’t wash’and the manager has our full support).
Clough would these days would be seen as a bully in this cotton wool society, and England would lose out on the best manager of a generation.
Bowyer is the best manager we’ve had since Powell, perhaps even since Curbs.
Alternatively Michael Duff performed well until his last job.
as daft as it might seem getting rid of Appleton …I was at the Cray Valley and Gillingham games and they remain 2 of the worst games in my lifetime. Not only that…Appleton has lost a lot of the goodwill of the fans and it’s incredibly hard to win it back.
Pep or Klopp would struggle to get this lot anywhere near the play offs. We haven't had a decent full back for what seems like years, our centre backs are poor and there's no creativity in midfield.
So we can continue recycling managers every few months and hope we 'strike gold' but it's far more likely that we won't do anything until the squad is actually improved.
The CURRENT owners - each and every one.