@paulsturgess Apologies. I've edited my original post.
I only wanted to stress that for me wins are all that matters and I couldn't care less how we we play in order to get them if it helps us out of this God awful league. Good performances night help I agree, but with what we have available it's a make shift effort and Apples stopped us losing, for which he gets credit with me. I fear a return to a losing mentality is a distinct possibility as we head up to Barnsley after yesterday's capitulation though.
Fair enough
ultimately over time, good results tend to follow good performances , bad results follow bad performances. So my fear about Barnsley , particularly given the dejected, critical comments from Appleton himself, is the same as yours.
There are a few managerial magicians who can deviate from that pattern over a sustained period but they’re rare, and almost always I would say for teams down the bottom of the league fighting against the odds. I can’t think of many(any!) sides in history who manage to get promoted putting in bad performances week in week out - and we have barely put a good performance in all season.
Was it Curbs who said don’t get too low with the defeats and don’t get too high with the wins? It wasn’t long ago many on here were quite happy with “Mickey Apples” - don’t forget that’s still only 2 league defeats in 13 under Appleton.
Those calling for Louis Watson to have come on yesterday - didn’t he play against Reading midweek and folk on here were saying he was shit?
Some on here are saying that CBT will leave in January which will be a disaster for our season and others are saying he is shit and lazy and doesn’t do anything. That’s our second top scorer and highest assister.
Appleton gets criticised for playing a weakened side in the FA cup, and then for playing a full strength side in the League Cup. These players are not his players and people talk about the loans being frozen out - but they could well be leaving in January in any case.
Those criticising AMB - Isted would probably be first choice but he’s injured. I don’t think any of us want to see Walker again if it can be avoided.
Appleton has steadied the ship. At the end of August we were 19th, with 3 points from 5 games. With only 2 defeats since then, we’ve suffered injuries to key players (Chuks, Miles, Fraser, Camara to name but 4) and we’re still on the fringes of the play offs. May is on fire and even some of those who folk have decided are shit, like Thomas and Hector, have started to play better. We finally have a fit left back. The owners are talking about strengthening in January, with hopefully Appleton getting players in that are endorsed by him.
This is a key part of the season now, lots of games coming up and the January window. Let’s see where we are come 1st February before we write off the season, Appleton and the owners.
This is delusional. 9 points adrift is not being on the fringes of the play offs. And the key thing is even though we have only managed to lose 2 of 13, the performances are still shite and barely a hint of anything vaguely resembling a top 6 side. The defending is atrocious and competent coaching should have been able to drastically improve this.
We may not be on the fringes of the play offs, but his record isn't delusional. It's unarguable and results are key, not performances. You've deluded if you think losing matches but playing well buys you time. Not here it doesn't if anywhere.
It’s really bizarre how some people on forums brazenly adapt/ alter comments that have been made to create some kind of argument that wasn’t there which they can try and win!
At no point in my post do I suggest that playing well and losing games buys time or is helpful.
People are attempting to justify the inadequate results with the limited number of defeats. The results are not awful but they’re not good enough. How do you judge where you actually sit/ what your prospects of an upturn might be? The performances. Our performances are really poor and not suggestive of a good side and/or management that is likely to or capable of going on a proper run.
When Phil Parkinson was sacked at the turn of 2010/11 , I believe we sat 4th in the table and some argued that it was incredibly harsh because results had been pretty good. Performances had been abysmal though and the results were masking the reality.
That side finished 13th. We may have only 2 defeats in 13, but 13th is about where we’re headed for at the minute.
You can make that go both ways to suit whatever narrative you’d like. Birmingham got rid of Eustace this season when they were 6th and flying. Now they’re 16th under Rooney. What is the reality there?
The reality at CAFC is that under the previous bloke we’d lost four in five games. We were proper dire. We are not bad now because of Appleton.
We are still dire but we’re not losing games anymore. Sack Appleton and it could definitely get worse than 13th this season.
Depends on your definition of bad. I think we most definitely are bad under Appleton, certainly in all of the last 5/6/7 matches (maybe more without looking at fixture list).
im not necessarily blaming him, changing managers is just a ridiculous cycle and clearly the problem lies in the structure the recruitment the players and ultimately the ownership.
but looking at the management in isolation for just a moment and disregarding the shambles around them (bowyer also managed successfully in arguably worse structural circumstances), I personally think with the players we have available we should be playing better than we, getting slightly better results and be genuinely in the fringes off the play offs.
In a fundamentally prolonged and shit period for our beloved football club, unfortunately yesterday has become a standard predictable result. We know what's wrong, and I am sure everyone involved at a much deeper level than I does. Not sure the unknown faces duped into investing do, and there lies the rub. Will they finance the major surgery that is needed? My money is on a big fat "Hell NO!". At risk of repeating myself, in my tenure as a fellow sufferer, we have never had any bottle on the playing field. Of course there have been exceptions you can throw back at me, but 85% of supporting Charlton over nearly 50 years of grind, it has been so. Defeat snatched from victory, too "nice" and a good kick in the nuts thrown in, it IS a fucking illness following Charlton. Any period of sustained success has involved there being at least one preferably two complete shithousers in the team. Alfie seems in that mould, we need more and the chaff shipped out, and the youngsters shipped out down the leagues for a football education! God I am depressed watching all this from afar, I fear for all your sanity, the ones who actually spend time and money on this shower of shit. Gillingham was a fucking predictable disgrace and it's playing on my mind much too much...
lets not go down the sack the manager rout every 9months. If we stay up then give him another season at least. Jackson at Wimbledon is an example of sticking with a manager who had a bad season. As it is those who call for the managers head have no idea who this new genius of a manger is that will turn this squad of players into a league1 dominating team, because there is no one.
While I don't think it was Apples best match, to blame him for the 2 late subs is just wrong. CBT was subbed one minute after the 1st Cambridge goal and May was subbed 3 minutes before the penalty, please explain to me how those two substitutions lead to the two goals.
LL.
Please explain to me/anyone how any manager, coach or supporter could rationalise that replacing a midfield player with a child (turned 17 4 weeks ago) to play up front alongside another teenager - when you have just conceded to go 2-1 and have to hang on to see out the last 5 minutes of a match against a gritty opponent buoyed by a new manager - is anything other than an utterly ludicrous, wreckless and wilfully negligent decision?
I can't believe people are even trying to justify or give reasoning to Appletons sub choices, giving him far too much credit.
Who takes off their best player who causes issues all over the pitch? Especially at 90+ mins when the game isn't out of sight. If he was doing it to protect May from being booked, then he's even dumber than I was giving him credit for.
As for all the talk of giving him a transfer window?? Do me a favour 😂
You want this bloke, who gets us playing this level of football, making these kind of subs, making these kind of excuses having a transfer window? Jesus fkn wept.
Write the season off, get a proper manager in now, build for next season with May as the main man and find the right players up to it, would be a far better solution. You give this bloke a transfer window (which is a Myth anyway btw) he will genuinely damage our club long term.
Name your preferred choice of Manager please Brazilance.
Yep, on his results since coming he has done as good a job as can be expected. If we retain this points return we MIGHT squeeze into the play-offs. It is a very big if though!
I can't believe people are even trying to justify or give reasoning to Appletons sub choices, giving him far too much credit.
Who takes off their best player who causes issues all over the pitch? Especially at 90+ mins when the game isn't out of sight. If he was doing it to protect May from being booked, then he's even dumber than I was giving him credit for.
As for all the talk of giving him a transfer window?? Do me a favour 😂
You want this bloke, who gets us playing this level of football, making these kind of subs, making these kind of excuses having a transfer window? Jesus fkn wept.
Write the season off, get a proper manager in now, build for next season with May as the main man and find the right players up to it, would be a far better solution. You give this bloke a transfer window (which is a Myth anyway btw) he will genuinely damage our club long term.
Name your preferred choice of Manager please Brazilance.
Me or Curbs, no one else up to it.
But seriously Curbs, watches the team week in week out, give him the season to sus it out and work his way back to management.
Other than that all my options are too expensive so it's about getting lucky until we crawl back into the championship.
While I don't think it was Apples best match, to blame him for the 2 late subs is just wrong. CBT was subbed one minute after the 1st Cambridge goal and May was subbed 3 minutes before the penalty, please explain to me how those two substitutions lead to the two goals.
LL.
Please explain to me/anyone how any manager, coach or supporter could rationalise that replacing a midfield player with a child (turned 17 4 weeks ago) to play up front alongside another teenager - when you have just conceded to go 2-1 and have to hang on to see out the last 5 minutes of a match against a gritty opponent buoyed by a new manager - is anything other than an utterly ludicrous, wreckless and wilfully negligent decision?
You are completely over the top in your final assertion, we have a long injury list, we didn't loose and some players were subbed as they were carrying injury or maybe had the possibility of a yellow card
I can't believe people are even trying to justify or give reasoning to Appletons sub choices, giving him far too much credit.
Who takes off their best player who causes issues all over the pitch? Especially at 90+ mins when the game isn't out of sight. If he was doing it to protect May from being booked, then he's even dumber than I was giving him credit for.
As for all the talk of giving him a transfer window?? Do me a favour 😂
You want this bloke, who gets us playing this level of football, making these kind of subs, making these kind of excuses having a transfer window? Jesus fkn wept.
Write the season off, get a proper manager in now, build for next season with May as the main man and find the right players up to it, would be a far better solution. You give this bloke a transfer window (which is a Myth anyway btw) he will genuinely damage our club long term.
Name your preferred choice of Manager please Brazilance.
Me or Curbs, no one else up to it.
But seriously Curbs, watches the team week in week out, give him the season to sus it out and work his way back to management.
Other than that all my options are too expensive so it's about getting lucky until we crawl back into the championship.
As a Charlton TV regular from Day 1 I think I can assert with some confidence that Curbs doesn't want it, not even remotely; at the same time he would be happy to consider a father-figure role with a younger manager. But let's also remember Fulham tried that with Curbs and it didn't work, for whatever reason.
I can't believe people are even trying to justify or give reasoning to Appletons sub choices, giving him far too much credit.
Who takes off their best player who causes issues all over the pitch? Especially at 90+ mins when the game isn't out of sight. If he was doing it to protect May from being booked, then he's even dumber than I was giving him credit for.
As for all the talk of giving him a transfer window?? Do me a favour 😂
You want this bloke, who gets us playing this level of football, making these kind of subs, making these kind of excuses having a transfer window? Jesus fkn wept.
Write the season off, get a proper manager in now, build for next season with May as the main man and find the right players up to it, would be a far better solution. You give this bloke a transfer window (which is a Myth anyway btw) he will genuinely damage our club long term.
Name your preferred choice of Manager please Brazilance.
Me or Curbs, no one else up to it.
But seriously Curbs, watches the team week in week out, give him the season to sus it out and work his way back to management.
Other than that all my options are too expensive so it's about getting lucky until we crawl back into the championship.
As a Charlton TV regular from Day 1 I think I can assert with some confidence that Curbs doesn't want it, not even remotely; at the same time he would be happy to consider a father-figure role with a younger manager. But let's also remember Fulham tried that with Curbs and it didn't work, for whatever reason.
I know he wouldn't, that would just be my ideal pick. There's no way he wouldn't be up to it still, far too knowledgeable and has an eye for a player.
I can't believe people are even trying to justify or give reasoning to Appletons sub choices, giving him far too much credit.
Who takes off their best player who causes issues all over the pitch? Especially at 90+ mins when the game isn't out of sight. If he was doing it to protect May from being booked, then he's even dumber than I was giving him credit for.
As for all the talk of giving him a transfer window?? Do me a favour 😂
You want this bloke, who gets us playing this level of football, making these kind of subs, making these kind of excuses having a transfer window? Jesus fkn wept.
Write the season off, get a proper manager in now, build for next season with May as the main man and find the right players up to it, would be a far better solution. You give this bloke a transfer window (which is a Myth anyway btw) he will genuinely damage our club long term.
Name your preferred choice of Manager please Brazilance.
Me or Curbs, no one else up to it.
But seriously Curbs, watches the team week in week out, give him the season to sus it out and work his way back to management.
Other than that all my options are too expensive so it's about getting lucky until we crawl back into the championship.
As a Charlton TV regular from Day 1 I think I can assert with some confidence that Curbs doesn't want it, not even remotely; at the same time he would be happy to consider a father-figure role with a younger manager. But let's also remember Fulham tried that with Curbs and it didn't work, for whatever reason.
I recall back in the mists of time when Man Citteeee had the wise old owl Joe Mercer mentoring the fiery younger Malcolm Allison, a partnership that worked very well, there are probably other examples. The issue of course is to find the right couple that can complement one another
While I don't think it was Apples best match, to blame him for the 2 late subs is just wrong. CBT was subbed one minute after the 1st Cambridge goal and May was subbed 3 minutes before the penalty, please explain to me how those two substitutions lead to the two goals.
LL.
Please explain to me/anyone how any manager, coach or supporter could rationalise that replacing a midfield player with a child (turned 17 4 weeks ago) to play up front alongside another teenager - when you have just conceded to go 2-1 and have to hang on to see out the last 5 minutes of a match against a gritty opponent buoyed by a new manager - is anything other than an utterly ludicrous, wreckless and wilfully negligent decision?
You are completely over the top in your final assertion, we have a long injury list, we didn't loose and some players were subbed as they were carrying injury or maybe had the possibility of a yellow card
That doesn’t answer the question. We had several other sub options available, including a reasonably experienced central midfielder who played 30 odd games in the championship last season.
He brought on a child in the wrong position and we “lost” 2 points. Maybe we would still have lost those 2 points if Watson had come on, but…
That decision was wreckless and ludicrous , there’s just no logical or other explanation for it, however you try and defend it.
*edit , just checked and I see I had overestimated how many games Watson has played. Either way, my point/ opinion on that decision stands though.
Watching Luton today, it makes you wonder how they can get to Premier League with their ground, which is less than half the attendance of ours, and our illustrious leaders cannot get us a decent enough team to bring back the crowds to give us a chance
The Ref was wrong and cost us 3 points however this exact team will not be promoted and we need at leat 4 more experienced players to stop the stupid mistakes we keep making. our injuries as usual are not helping us. time to put your money where your mouth is Mr Boardroom 🧐🧐🧐👍👍
So many of us fans criticised Appleton for going defensive. Bringing on Elerewe for height to combat Cambridge in added time. Just seen Pep do the same for Man C v Luton (just saying).
So many of us fans criticised Appleton for going defensive. Bringing on Elerewe for height to combat Cambridge in added time. Just seen Pep do the same for Man C v Luton (just saying).
TBF, his calibre of short arses...
Don't think Mickey Apples can win here, just like every other incumbant coach. Quality is the key and we are shopping bargain bucket.
So many of us fans criticised Appleton for going defensive. Bringing on Elerewe for height to combat Cambridge in added time. Just seen Pep do the same for Man C v Luton (just saying).
The Deji sub wasn’t a bad one, it was the other subs and team selection that were baffling
Latest up, not a great vid, minimal reaction and I had to cut a load of stuff. Went on a right rant but decided to cut it.
Haha, look forward to the "outtakes" at the end of the season but will probably be too long to watch. Hats off for still doing these. Some painful performances recently and we seem to be regressing. Of course we will keep the faith as we don't have anything else.
Latest up, not a great vid, minimal reaction and I had to cut a load of stuff. Went on a right rant but decided to cut it.
Haha, look forward to the "outtakes" at the end of the season but will probably be too long to watch. Hats off for still doing these. Some painful performances recently and we seem to be regressing. Of course we will keep the faith as we don't have anything else.
Luckily I'll be forced into a break soon, work is hectic, they've cancelled having weekends off for the foreseeable, I've ran out of holidays, so I'll probably miss a few now.
Might be for the best tbf haha, Peterborough at home and Burton away look like a miss so far.
Latest up, not a great vid, minimal reaction and I had to cut a load of stuff. Went on a right rant but decided to cut it.
Haha, look forward to the "outtakes" at the end of the season but will probably be too long to watch. Hats off for still doing these. Some painful performances recently and we seem to be regressing. Of course we will keep the faith as we don't have anything else.
Hopefully we have a cracking window (don’t laugh) and we storm up the league and any saved outtakes are even better to watch. :-)
Watching that first Cheltenham goal, don’t be surprised if Chem gets dropped again. He’s certainly in for a bollocking at Sparrows Lane tomorrow morning.
Not a great match up by any means (all the big defenders were zonal marking) and you don’t expect him to be a colossus back there.
Nonetheless that lack of effort to make it difficult for the Cambridge man is really poor from him.
Thinking back on it - was that the reason he (Chem) got hooked so soon afterwards?
Yes Mbick is a younger player but a much bigger presence in both boxes and more likely to contribute defensively, should Cambridge have won more free kicks and corners.
While I don't think it was Apples best match, to blame him for the 2 late subs is just wrong. CBT was subbed one minute after the 1st Cambridge goal and May was subbed 3 minutes before the penalty, please explain to me how those two substitutions lead to the two goals.
The last 10 mins, Cambridge were pushing. However we had the game won. Oh no, Appleton brings on a centre half (Elewere). Takes off the 2 players that would threaten Cambridge and keep the ball. We lost all shape and invited pressure. He should have brought Louis Watson on. Chem Cambell was knackered in the last 20 mins, understandably. A Sunday league manager would not have done what Appleton did. Then in the press conference there is some nonsense about shorter players not defending corners. He blames all, but himself. He's a dud and most of us knew it when he was appointed
Your reply is a load of rubbish. Elewere came on AFTER the 1st goal so that substitution had no effect on that goal and the second goal was due to poor refereeing on the players on the pitch - do try and get you fact right please.
Stop splitting hairs. At 2-0 up we should have won the fucking game. The reason we didn't was largely down to Appleton. You can think what you like.
He really needs to be working on this - who’s goalkeeping coach these days?
How does he 'work on this' ? Saving a penalty is down to guessing which way the penalty taker is going to place the penalty, some are good at saving pens, almost like a 'knack' but it can't be taught.
He could study the penalty takers previous penalties. Covered end junior knows where it's going 4/5 and I guess right/know much of the time. We both thought he'd put it down the middle yesterday as he'd be nervous and not confident enough to try for a corner. He could also try diving as well if he's going to go left or right. Generally he just seems to "fall out of the way".
Watching that first Cheltenham goal, don’t be surprised if Chem gets dropped again. He’s certainly in for a bollocking at Sparrows Lane tomorrow morning.
Not a great match up by any means (all the big defenders were zonal marking) and you don’t expect him to be a colossus back there.
Nonetheless that lack of effort to make it difficult for the Cambridge man is really poor from him.
Definitely a poor match up. I also noticed in the first half that Rylah (who I'm guessing is about 5'10) was marking Digby at corners, who is a monster at 6'4.
Ref had a shocker - just remembered the offside decision he gave against May and then proceeded to let them take the free kick in our half
Yeah quite how someone can be offside in the own half I don't know. Unfortunately when you're at this dog shit level, the officials are of a similar standard.
While I don't think it was Apples best match, to blame him for the 2 late subs is just wrong. CBT was subbed one minute after the 1st Cambridge goal and May was subbed 3 minutes before the penalty, please explain to me how those two substitutions lead to the two goals.
LL.
Please explain to me/anyone how any manager, coach or supporter could rationalise that replacing a midfield player with a child (turned 17 4 weeks ago) to play up front alongside another teenager - when you have just conceded to go 2-1 and have to hang on to see out the last 5 minutes of a match against a gritty opponent buoyed by a new manager - is anything other than an utterly ludicrous, wreckless and wilfully negligent decision?
You are completely over the top in your final assertion, we have a long injury list, we didn't loose and some players were subbed as they were carrying injury or maybe had the possibility of a yellow card
That doesn’t answer the question. We had several other sub options available, including a reasonably experienced central midfielder who played 30 odd games in the championship last season.
He brought on a child in the wrong position and we “lost” 2 points. Maybe we would still have lost those 2 points if Watson had come on, but…
That decision was wreckless and ludicrous , there’s just no logical or other explanation for it, however you try and defend it.
*edit , just checked and I see I had overestimated how many games Watson has played. Either way, my point/ opinion on that decision stands though.
edit - I did have a pithy reply but haver deleted as I just can't be bothered
Comments
ultimately over time, good results tend to follow good performances , bad results follow bad performances. So my fear about Barnsley , particularly given the dejected, critical comments from Appleton himself, is the same as yours.
im not necessarily blaming him, changing managers is just a ridiculous cycle and clearly the problem lies in the structure the recruitment the players and ultimately the ownership.
but looking at the management in isolation for just a moment and disregarding the shambles around them (bowyer also managed successfully in arguably worse structural circumstances), I personally think with the players we have available we should be playing better than we, getting slightly better results and be genuinely in the fringes off the play offs.
At risk of repeating myself, in my tenure as a fellow sufferer, we have never had any bottle on the playing field. Of course there have been exceptions you can throw back at me, but 85% of supporting Charlton over nearly 50 years of grind, it has been so. Defeat snatched from victory, too "nice" and a good kick in the nuts thrown in, it IS a fucking illness following Charlton. Any period of sustained success has involved there being at least one preferably two complete shithousers in the team. Alfie seems in that mould, we need more and the chaff shipped out, and the youngsters shipped out down the leagues for a football education!
God I am depressed watching all this from afar, I fear for all your sanity, the ones who actually spend time and money on this shower of shit. Gillingham was a fucking predictable disgrace and it's playing on my mind much too much...
Jackson at Wimbledon is an example of sticking with a manager who had a bad season.
As it is those who call for the managers head have no idea who this new genius of a manger is that will turn this squad of players into a league1 dominating team, because there is no one.
Please explain to me/anyone how any manager, coach or supporter could rationalise that replacing a midfield player with a child (turned 17 4 weeks ago) to play up front alongside another teenager - when you have just conceded to go 2-1 and have to hang on to see out the last 5 minutes of a match against a gritty opponent buoyed by a new manager - is anything other than an utterly ludicrous, wreckless and wilfully negligent decision?
If we retain this points return we MIGHT squeeze into the play-offs.
It is a very big if though!
But seriously Curbs, watches the team week in week out, give him the season to sus it out and work his way back to management.
Other than that all my options are too expensive so it's about getting lucky until we crawl back into the championship.
Latest up, not a great vid, minimal reaction and I had to cut a load of stuff. Went on a right rant but decided to cut it.
however this exact team will not be promoted
and we need at leat 4 more experienced players to stop the stupid mistakes we keep making.
our injuries as usual are not helping us.
time to put your money where your mouth is Mr Boardroom 🧐🧐🧐👍👍
Bringing on Elerewe for height to combat Cambridge in added time.
Just seen Pep do the same for Man C v Luton (just saying).
Don't think Mickey Apples can win here, just like every other incumbant coach. Quality is the key and we are shopping bargain bucket.
Might be for the best tbf haha, Peterborough at home and Burton away look like a miss so far.
We can but dream…
Not a great match up by any means (all the big defenders were zonal marking) and you don’t expect him to be a colossus back there.
Yes Mbick is a younger player but a much bigger presence in both boxes and more likely to contribute defensively, should Cambridge have won more free kicks and corners.
Covered end junior knows where it's going 4/5 and I guess right/know much of the time.
We both thought he'd put it down the middle yesterday as he'd be nervous and not confident enough to try for a corner.
He could also try diving as well if he's going to go left or right.
Generally he just seems to "fall out of the way".