I have very little knowledge or understanding of horse racing, but I thought I would share some thoughts, for anyone interested.
1. The protesters calling for action on the Grand National, or steeplechase racing in general are doing what they passionately feel is right. They've called for "something" to be done. The horse racing authorities have reacted in exactly the right way, by instigating a review. I suspect the review will produce very few additional "safety" measures; but that's right. They will look into it, decide what - if anything - needs to be done and then act. Out of a very sad situation, I suspect the right outcome will take place: very few changes are needed (since so much has done for equine and rider safety in the last few years), so very few changes will take place. Next year's Grand National will be bigger and better.
2. The content on this thread - and its predecessors - is nothing short of spectacular. It's to the credit of the phenomenal @PeanutsMolloy in particular and to Charlton Life in general that a thread with such specific, detailed and wide-ranging expertise is both informative to experts and engaging to those of us like me who have little knowledge or experience in horse racing. Absolutely brilliant stuff (at least, the bits I could understand).
3. Sandy Thomson, the trainer whose horse died at the first fence, said the horse was "hyper" because of the protests (presumably because of the delay, due to the protests) and "I don't know when he last fell". I know these words were said in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy, and perhaps said in haste, but a trainer who lets his horse run while being "hyper" and who can't instantly recall the horse's last falls, and when, where and why they happened doesn't sound like he's doing his job well. If he knew the horse wasn't ready, he should shoulder at least a part of the blame with the protesters who caused the delay.
4. The Grand National is magnificent. It must be protected from any threat of cessation.
5. I picked the winner and made a tidy profit, having backed it each way. I have no idea how or why I chose it. I am planning to exploit my ignorance profitably again next year.
I see myself as not strongly on one side or the other. What statistics say is 5 horses have died since 2012 when changes were made (not sure if that includes Saturday or not). This would suggest to me that the race has become safer and probably could be tweaked to be even more safe. To me, there are always a number of horses that have absolutely no chance so a smaller field may help as it is clear with the numbers involved that horses are more likely to impede other horses and you don't have to be an expert to see that. And if they do have a slight chance, it would probably involve carnage in the race which is surely what we are trying to avoid.
I have very little knowledge or understanding of horse racing, but I thought I would share some thoughts, for anyone interested.
1. The protesters calling for action on the Grand National, or steeplechase racing in general are doing what they passionately feel is right. They've called for "something" to be done. The horse racing authorities have reacted in exactly the right way, by instigating a review. I suspect the review will produce very few additional "safety" measures; but that's right. They will look into it, decide what - if anything - needs to be done and then act. Out of a very sad situation, I suspect the right outcome will take place: very few changes are needed (since so much has done for equine and rider safety in the last few years), so very few changes will take place. Next year's Grand National will be bigger and better.
2. The content on this thread - and its predecessors - is nothing short of spectacular. It's to the credit of the phenomenal @PeanutsMolloy in particular and to Charlton Life in general that a thread with such specific, detailed and wide-ranging expertise is both informative to experts and engaging to those of us like me who have little knowledge or experience in horse racing. Absolutely brilliant stuff (at least, the bits I could understand).
3. Sandy Thomson, the trainer whose horse died at the first fence, said the horse was "hyper" because of the protests (presumably because of the delay, due to the protests) and "I don't know when he last fell". I know these words were said in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy, and perhaps said in haste, but a trainer who lets his horse run while being "hyper" and who can't instantly recall the horse's last falls, and when, where and why they happened doesn't sound like he's doing his job well. If he knew the horse wasn't ready, he should shoulder at least a part of the blame with the protesters who caused the delay.
4. The Grand National is magnificent. It must be protected from any threat of cessation.
5. I picked the winner and made a tidy profit, having backed it each way. I have no idea how or why I chose it. I am planning to exploit my ignorance profitably again next year.
Just to be clear, Hill Sixteen never fell in any of its previous 26 races. Once it unseated its rider which isn't the same thing. Thompson was referring to the hundreds of times that the horse would have been schooled at home and any fall, if any, would have occurred possibly years before Saturday. Hence him not remembering "when it last fell".
I have very little knowledge or understanding of horse racing, but I thought I would share some thoughts, for anyone interested.
1. The protesters calling for action on the Grand National, or steeplechase racing in general are doing what they passionately feel is right. They've called for "something" to be done. The horse racing authorities have reacted in exactly the right way, by instigating a review. I suspect the review will produce very few additional "safety" measures; but that's right. They will look into it, decide what - if anything - needs to be done and then act. Out of a very sad situation, I suspect the right outcome will take place: very few changes are needed (since so much has done for equine and rider safety in the last few years), so very few changes will take place. Next year's Grand National will be bigger and better.
2. The content on this thread - and its predecessors - is nothing short of spectacular. It's to the credit of the phenomenal @PeanutsMolloy in particular and to Charlton Life in general that a thread with such specific, detailed and wide-ranging expertise is both informative to experts and engaging to those of us like me who have little knowledge or experience in horse racing. Absolutely brilliant stuff (at least, the bits I could understand).
3. Sandy Thomson, the trainer whose horse died at the first fence, said the horse was "hyper" because of the protests (presumably because of the delay, due to the protests) and "I don't know when he last fell". I know these words were said in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy, and perhaps said in haste, but a trainer who lets his horse run while being "hyper" and who can't instantly recall the horse's last falls, and when, where and why they happened doesn't sound like he's doing his job well. If he knew the horse wasn't ready, he should shoulder at least a part of the blame with the protesters who caused the delay.
4. The Grand National is magnificent. It must be protected from any threat of cessation.
5. I picked the winner and made a tidy profit, having backed it each way. I have no idea how or why I chose it. I am planning to exploit my ignorance profitably again next year.
Just to be clear, Hill Sixteen never fell in any of its previous 26 races. Once it unseated its rider which isn't the same thing. Thompson was referring to the hundreds of times that the horse would have been schooled at home and any fall, if any, would have occurred possibly years before Saturday. Hence him not remembering "when it last fell".
He would have come across as a note knowledgeable, careful and detailed trainer if he'd said that.
"The horse had never fallen before", would have come across in a more powerful, succinct and clear smoking gun, than "I don't know when he last fell".
The former draws an obvious inference that the reason the horse fell was very much associated with the delay caused. The latter makes it appear that he doesn't know how often the horse fell.
Although, I still think his actions are more important than his words. If he, as a trainer, thought the horse shouldn't have run, then he has some culpability.
The one thing that did become apparent to me was that there wasn't the normal gap between the horses going down to post and the off for the Grand National and that was, perhaps, another contributory factor. Let's not forget that there are external influences dictating that the race has to go off as near to time as possible.
One of the things that the French do is to give the horses, before a race, a school over an obstacle to settle them down. Had that been done on Saturday and the horse had fallen or shown outward signs that it wasn't jumping as the jockey would have expected then, in my opinion, it would have to be withdrawn.
Before horses are ever ridden do they have to be ‘broken in’? When you see old western films there are sometimes scenes with a bucking bronco (is that still the term?) where horses seem to want to throw the human off their back.
I have very little knowledge or understanding of horse racing, but I thought I would share some thoughts, for anyone interested.
1. The protesters calling for action on the Grand National, or steeplechase racing in general are doing what they passionately feel is right. They've called for "something" to be done. The horse racing authorities have reacted in exactly the right way, by instigating a review. I suspect the review will produce very few additional "safety" measures; but that's right. They will look into it, decide what - if anything - needs to be done and then act. Out of a very sad situation, I suspect the right outcome will take place: very few changes are needed (since so much has done for equine and rider safety in the last few years), so very few changes will take place. Next year's Grand National will be bigger and better.
2. The content on this thread - and its predecessors - is nothing short of spectacular. It's to the credit of the phenomenal @PeanutsMolloy in particular and to Charlton Life in general that a thread with such specific, detailed and wide-ranging expertise is both informative to experts and engaging to those of us like me who have little knowledge or experience in horse racing. Absolutely brilliant stuff (at least, the bits I could understand).
3. Sandy Thomson, the trainer whose horse died at the first fence, said the horse was "hyper" because of the protests (presumably because of the delay, due to the protests) and "I don't know when he last fell". I know these words were said in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy, and perhaps said in haste, but a trainer who lets his horse run while being "hyper" and who can't instantly recall the horse's last falls, and when, where and why they happened doesn't sound like he's doing his job well. If he knew the horse wasn't ready, he should shoulder at least a part of the blame with the protesters who caused the delay.
4. The Grand National is magnificent. It must be protected from any threat of cessation.
5. I picked the winner and made a tidy profit, having backed it each way. I have no idea how or why I chose it. I am planning to exploit my ignorance profitably again next year.
Just to be clear, Hill Sixteen never fell in any of its previous 26 races. Once it unseated its rider which isn't the same thing. Thompson was referring to the hundreds of times that the horse would have been schooled at home and any fall, if any, would have occurred possibly years before Saturday. Hence him not remembering "when it last fell".
He would have come across as a note knowledgeable, careful and detailed trainer if he'd said that.
"The horse had never fallen before", would have come across in a more powerful, succinct and clear smoking gun, than "I don't know when he last fell".
The former draws an obvious inference that the reason the horse fell was very much associated with the delay caused. The latter makes it appear that he doesn't know how often the horse fell.
Although, I still think his actions are more important than his words. If he, as a trainer, thought the horse shouldn't have run, then he has some culpability.
I didn't listen to the interview but it all depends on the inflexion. If he was answering a question "When did the horse last fall?" and replied "I don't know when the hose last fell" then you have a valid point. However, I would guess that the phrase he used was euphemistic as in 'it was so long ago' or 'he just doesn't fall'.
Before horses are ever ridden do they have to be ‘broken in’? When you see old western films there are sometimes scenes with a bucking bronco (is that still the term?) where horses seem to want to throw the human off their back.
You're right about the Westerns, of course, but that's a million miles from how thoroughbreds are "broken" (i.e. the horse gets used to having a rider on its back). Broken is an unfortunate term - emphatically it does not mean the horse is in any way harmed.
Before horses are ever ridden do they have to be ‘broken in’? When you see old western films there are sometimes scenes with a bucking bronco (is that still the term?) where horses seem to want to throw the human off their back.
You're right about the Westerns, of course, but that's a million miles from how thoroughbreds are "broken" (i.e. the horse gets used to having a rider on its back). Broken is an unfortunate term - emphatically it does not mean the horse is in any way harmed.
lots of bs on this thread with experts that have never trained or been anywhere near a racehorse - those protesting need a good kicking as there actions contributed to the loss of a race horse - to those who say a horse wouldnt jump - lots of loose horses run round the track jumping
I have very little knowledge or understanding of horse racing, but I thought I would share some thoughts, for anyone interested.
1. The protesters calling for action on the Grand National, or steeplechase racing in general are doing what they passionately feel is right. They've called for "something" to be done. The horse racing authorities have reacted in exactly the right way, by instigating a review. I suspect the review will produce very few additional "safety" measures; but that's right. They will look into it, decide what - if anything - needs to be done and then act. Out of a very sad situation, I suspect the right outcome will take place: very few changes are needed (since so much has done for equine and rider safety in the last few years), so very few changes will take place. Next year's Grand National will be bigger and better.
2. The content on this thread - and its predecessors - is nothing short of spectacular. It's to the credit of the phenomenal @PeanutsMolloy in particular and to Charlton Life in general that a thread with such specific, detailed and wide-ranging expertise is both informative to experts and engaging to those of us like me who have little knowledge or experience in horse racing. Absolutely brilliant stuff (at least, the bits I could understand).
3. Sandy Thomson, the trainer whose horse died at the first fence, said the horse was "hyper" because of the protests (presumably because of the delay, due to the protests) and "I don't know when he last fell". I know these words were said in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy, and perhaps said in haste, but a trainer who lets his horse run while being "hyper" and who can't instantly recall the horse's last falls, and when, where and why they happened doesn't sound like he's doing his job well. If he knew the horse wasn't ready, he should shoulder at least a part of the blame with the protesters who caused the delay.
4. The Grand National is magnificent. It must be protected from any threat of cessation.
5. I picked the winner and made a tidy profit, having backed it each way. I have no idea how or why I chose it. I am planning to exploit my ignorance profitably again next year.
Many thanks for those kind comments @Chizz I'm very pleased you find the GN thread engaging - there are many others whose contributions make it so. Regarding Sandy Thomson, I completely agree with @Addick Addict and @bobmunro as to what he meant. 27 races without a fall (and 1 UR the result of being hampered) makes him an exceptional jumper who may indeed also never have fallen when jumping a schooling obstacle or when taken out for fun. Sounds like he was one of the many horses that love to jump. Very sad.
I have very little knowledge or understanding of horse racing, but I thought I would share some thoughts, for anyone interested.
1. The protesters calling for action on the Grand National, or steeplechase racing in general are doing what they passionately feel is right. They've called for "something" to be done. The horse racing authorities have reacted in exactly the right way, by instigating a review. I suspect the review will produce very few additional "safety" measures; but that's right. They will look into it, decide what - if anything - needs to be done and then act. Out of a very sad situation, I suspect the right outcome will take place: very few changes are needed (since so much has done for equine and rider safety in the last few years), so very few changes will take place. Next year's Grand National will be bigger and better.
2. The content on this thread - and its predecessors - is nothing short of spectacular. It's to the credit of the phenomenal @PeanutsMolloy in particular and to Charlton Life in general that a thread with such specific, detailed and wide-ranging expertise is both informative to experts and engaging to those of us like me who have little knowledge or experience in horse racing. Absolutely brilliant stuff (at least, the bits I could understand).
3. Sandy Thomson, the trainer whose horse died at the first fence, said the horse was "hyper" because of the protests (presumably because of the delay, due to the protests) and "I don't know when he last fell". I know these words were said in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy, and perhaps said in haste, but a trainer who lets his horse run while being "hyper" and who can't instantly recall the horse's last falls, and when, where and why they happened doesn't sound like he's doing his job well. If he knew the horse wasn't ready, he should shoulder at least a part of the blame with the protesters who caused the delay.
4. The Grand National is magnificent. It must be protected from any threat of cessation.
5. I picked the winner and made a tidy profit, having backed it each way. I have no idea how or why I chose it. I am planning to exploit my ignorance profitably again next year.
Many thanks for those kind comments @Chizz I'm very pleased you find the GN thread engaging - there are many others whose contributions make it so. Regarding Sandy Thomson, I completely agree with @Addick Addict and @bobmunro as to what he meant. 27 races without a fall (and 1 UR the result of being hampered) makes him an exceptional jumper who may indeed also never have fallen when jumping a schooling obstacle or when taken out for fun. Sounds like he was one of the many horses that love to jump. Very sad.
Ok. Fakenham on Sunday. Does your model throw up any tips..?
You don’t need models and tips Chizz. Work out your own system, a lucky number perhaps. I always scan the runners in the Melbourne Cup for a horse with a colour in its name. I did quite well with Gold and Black I think it was, some years ago. I’m dreading what PeanutsMolloy might say.
You don’t need models and tips Chizz. Work out your own system, a lucky number perhaps. I always scan the runners in the Melbourne Cup for a horse with a colour in its name. I did quite well with Gold and Black I think it was, some years ago. I’m dreading what PeanutsMolloy might say.
I believe 3 horses have died this week. I don't object to horse racing per se, but when horses are still dying, there needs to be more done to prevent this from happening.
23 horses didn't finish the race, either having fallen, unseated their rider or pulled up, so it's hardly a safe race.
Which shows your ignorance on the subject. It’s not “unsafe” to pull up a horse, it’s the exact opposite. A jockey pulls a horse up for one of a variety of reasons. Would you rather a jockey continue riding the horse instead of stopping them ? In fact, what knowledge or expertise do you have on horseracing or the care of horses at a racing stable ?
I have no knowledge other than seeing horses dying in a race for the benefit of humans.
If the horse is pulled up then perhaps it shouldn't be taking part in that race.
I don't like to see animals dying in the name of sport.
Just say you know nothing about the subject and move along.
Horse racing is not something that interests me, but the welfare of the animals taking part does and it's clear that something needs to be done to make it safer.
Unfortunately protests are sometimes the only way to effect change.
Except in the case of the Grand National, protests haven’t been needed to effect change. Changes have been made over the past decade without the need for a ton of Tarquin’s to invade the event.
Horses are still dying.
You’re actually a WUM
Yes. He disagrees with the general consensus...he must be on a wind up. How dare he voice an opinion (quite calmly and politely) which differs from that of the majority!
lots of bs on this thread with experts that have never trained or been anywhere near a racehorse - those protesting need a good kicking as there actions contributed to the loss of a race horse - to those who say a horse wouldnt jump - lots of loose horses run round the track jumping
Yeah I've noticed the same with football on here. Loads of bs from people who have never coached, refereed or even played semi-pro, let alone pro! How dare they...
lots of bs on this thread with experts that have never trained or been anywhere near a racehorse - those protesting need a good kicking as there actions contributed to the loss of a race horse - to those who say a horse wouldnt jump - lots of loose horses run round the track jumping
Yeah I've noticed the same with football on here. Loads of bs from people who have never coached, refereed or even played semi-pro, let alone pro! How dare they...
The difference being that most on this forum have either played football, perhaps been involved at lower level and definitely watched thousands of matches either live or on telly.
I would say that everyone on here has a knowledge of the game even by just watching their club over many years. Thats different to watching 1 horse race a year and all of a sudden posting as if they’re Mick Fitzgerald.
I believe 3 horses have died this week. I don't object to horse racing per se, but when horses are still dying, there needs to be more done to prevent this from happening.
23 horses didn't finish the race, either having fallen, unseated their rider or pulled up, so it's hardly a safe race.
Which shows your ignorance on the subject. It’s not “unsafe” to pull up a horse, it’s the exact opposite. A jockey pulls a horse up for one of a variety of reasons. Would you rather a jockey continue riding the horse instead of stopping them ? In fact, what knowledge or expertise do you have on horseracing or the care of horses at a racing stable ?
I have no knowledge other than seeing horses dying in a race for the benefit of humans.
If the horse is pulled up then perhaps it shouldn't be taking part in that race.
I don't like to see animals dying in the name of sport.
Just say you know nothing about the subject and move along.
Horse racing is not something that interests me, but the welfare of the animals taking part does and it's clear that something needs to be done to make it safer.
Unfortunately protests are sometimes the only way to effect change.
Except in the case of the Grand National, protests haven’t been needed to effect change. Changes have been made over the past decade without the need for a ton of Tarquin’s to invade the event.
Horses are still dying.
You’re actually a WUM
Yes. He disagrees with the general consensus...he must be on a wind up. How dare he voice an opinion (quite calmly and politely) which differs from that of the majority!
I do enjoy your occasional appearance accompanied by a sarky comment, makes you look a right tit.
oh by the way, ME14 is female. Be careful with those pronouns.
Disgusting of you cloudworm. Assuming the poster is male because we are on a football forum 🙄 They/Them and She can also support a football team you know.
You don’t need models and tips Chizz. Work out your own system, a lucky number perhaps. I always scan the runners in the Melbourne Cup for a horse with a colour in its name. I did quite well with Gold and Black I think it was, some years ago. I’m dreading what PeanutsMolloy might say.
You might be on to something here as my only success in the Melbourne cup is Green Moon.
Disgusting of you cloudworm. Assuming the poster is male because we are on a football forum 🙄 They/Them and She can also support a football team you know.
Well I hope she played at least schoolgirl international level, otherwise her opinion is meaningless!
FWIW, no model for the Scottish GN (3.35pm today) but at the prices I think these 3 represent interesting e/w value and will carry my shillings: FAMOUS BRIDGE 20/1(6 places) - non runner LORD ACCORD 33/1 (7 pl) RUTHLESS ARTICLE 40/1 (7 pl)
Kittys Light wins - great ride by Jack Tudor Coopers Cross 2nd - a small consolation for Hill Sixteen's owner
Paid to come from off the pace. Ruthless Article obviously felt moved by his participation and decided to take a fence home with him. Lord Accord made the pace but couldn't hold off the cavalry charge at the business end.
Comments
1. The protesters calling for action on the Grand National, or steeplechase racing in general are doing what they passionately feel is right. They've called for "something" to be done. The horse racing authorities have reacted in exactly the right way, by instigating a review. I suspect the review will produce very few additional "safety" measures; but that's right. They will look into it, decide what - if anything - needs to be done and then act. Out of a very sad situation, I suspect the right outcome will take place: very few changes are needed (since so much has done for equine and rider safety in the last few years), so very few changes will take place. Next year's Grand National will be bigger and better.
2. The content on this thread - and its predecessors - is nothing short of spectacular. It's to the credit of the phenomenal @PeanutsMolloy in particular and to Charlton Life in general that a thread with such specific, detailed and wide-ranging expertise is both informative to experts and engaging to those of us like me who have little knowledge or experience in horse racing. Absolutely brilliant stuff (at least, the bits I could understand).
3. Sandy Thomson, the trainer whose horse died at the first fence, said the horse was "hyper" because of the protests (presumably because of the delay, due to the protests) and "I don't know when he last fell". I know these words were said in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy, and perhaps said in haste, but a trainer who lets his horse run while being "hyper" and who can't instantly recall the horse's last falls, and when, where and why they happened doesn't sound like he's doing his job well. If he knew the horse wasn't ready, he should shoulder at least a part of the blame with the protesters who caused the delay.
4. The Grand National is magnificent. It must be protected from any threat of cessation.
5. I picked the winner and made a tidy profit, having backed it each way. I have no idea how or why I chose it. I am planning to exploit my ignorance profitably again next year.
Just to be clear, Hill Sixteen never fell in any of its previous 26 races. Once it unseated its rider which isn't the same thing. Thompson was referring to the hundreds of times that the horse would have been schooled at home and any fall, if any, would have occurred possibly years before Saturday. Hence him not remembering "when it last fell".
"The horse had never fallen before", would have come across in a more powerful, succinct and clear smoking gun, than "I don't know when he last fell".
The former draws an obvious inference that the reason the horse fell was very much associated with the delay caused. The latter makes it appear that he doesn't know how often the horse fell.
Although, I still think his actions are more important than his words. If he, as a trainer, thought the horse shouldn't have run, then he has some culpability.
One of the things that the French do is to give the horses, before a race, a school over an obstacle to settle them down. Had that been done on Saturday and the horse had fallen or shown outward signs that it wasn't jumping as the jockey would have expected then, in my opinion, it would have to be withdrawn.
When you see old western films there are sometimes scenes with a bucking bronco (is that still the term?) where horses seem to want to throw the human off their back.
Broken is an unfortunate term - emphatically it does not mean the horse is in any way harmed.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=702652227026766
I'm very pleased you find the GN thread engaging - there are many others whose contributions make it so.
Regarding Sandy Thomson, I completely agree with @Addick Addict and @bobmunro as to what he meant.
27 races without a fall (and 1 UR the result of being hampered) makes him an exceptional jumper who may indeed also never have fallen when jumping a schooling obstacle or when taken out for fun.
Sounds like he was one of the many horses that love to jump.
Very sad.
(Can you tell I'm getting the bug?)
Thats different to watching 1 horse race a year and all of a sudden posting as if they’re Mick Fitzgerald.
oh by the way, ME14 is female. Be careful with those pronouns.
FAMOUS BRIDGE 20/1 (6 places) - non runner
LORD ACCORD 33/1 (7 pl)
RUTHLESS ARTICLE 40/1 (7 pl)
Coopers Cross 2nd - a small consolation for Hill Sixteen's owner
Paid to come from off the pace.
Ruthless Article obviously felt moved by his participation and decided to take a fence home with him.
Lord Accord made the pace but couldn't hold off the cavalry charge at the business end.
Oh well, roll on the Becher Chase in December.