My view is that TS has backed his manager and spent on a squad that could and maybe should do well. Weirdly I'm not fully blaming Adkins for this not happening yet - the squad is newly-assembled after all - but to an abused, jumpy and easily-triggered fanbase the dire football and results have led to understandable cries of 'sack the manager'.
Adkins has two more games and then if things haven't seriously improved I'll be joining these cries. What stays me is his frustration at how the players are failing to carry out his commands. He needs to be ruthless and excise the poison, wherever it is, and whoever is responsible. I'm not convinced Adkins has identified the right scapegoats yet, or to put it more pleasantly, a combination that works. As I say, two games.
I'd prefer he stays and turns things round because he seems like a guy who values bringing players through the Academy and putting in place a structure where we improve year on year, playing decent football.
If he goes, we need someone who looks at the players we have and can convince us, the management team and coaching staff that he can continue with that, but also start us winning again.
What I don't want is someone who is desperate for a job at any club regardless, comes in with his own team of coaches and then starts saying the players are not good enough and things will be fine once he's spent a load of money at Xmas on players that match his style. I'm thinking of the Big Sams here, whose personality overshadows everything else at the club.
Success is everything of course, and I remember Curbs not being well liked when he took over on his own. But he won us round by gradually improving things until we got to the Prem.
It's been said many times before, but our best recent managers have been pretty much untested elsewhere, and appointed more because no one else was available/affordable. Lawrence, Curbs, Powell and Bowyer were all a punt at the time and we all knew they were there because we couldn't afford anyone else.
Adkins had a lot of early success - Scunnie won League 1 in his first season, were then relegated, went up via Play-Offs and then finished 20th. At Southampton he famously took them from League 1 to the Prem in consecutive seasons, but that was 10 years ago. Since then his teams have finished mid-tableish. Has football overtaken his coaching style? Hard to say, but for me, the current team doesn't lack for skill, but that is something that is more effective when a team is winning. What it lacks is grit, determination and concentration for 90 mins. It lacks an aggressive leader and a bit of shit-housery.
I love the beautiful game, but I also like to see us mix it up a bit, get in the oppo's faces and intimidate them. In my opinion, this is what is needed right now to grind out some results. So, tomorrow night I want to see Adkins throw his jacket to the ground after a controversial decision and then square up to the Gills manager. That's the passion needed right now, and it needs to start with him.
If we were in games, and just lacking that little bit of quality I'd be more inclined to give him time.
However, the manner of defeats is alarming. You can argue "we're only 7 games in" but we have lost 5 of them and bar 15 minutes against Cheltenham haven't looked remotely competitive in any of those games.
Yes, we beat Crewe but I think that says more about them than us and if Barry Bannan hadn't missed an absolute sitter we would have been looking at 6 defeats from 7.
Let's not forget about the dismal League Cup performance either.
When you're 7 games in and already getting desperate enough to drop 3 or 4 players from the squad completely and then have a good chunk of an away end calling for your head, you're just delaying the inevitable. There is no coming back from it.
If Adkins goes his replacement needs to be able to recruit his own coaching team and have full responsibility for recruitment.
100% agree as much as jackson/euell are loved by us they were still strangers to adkins and no matter what anyone says he may be struggling implementing what he usually does without his own people and team around him
Whoever if anyone comes in they need to bring in there own fresh blood and have a more hands on role on recruitment we can see so far the way its been going isnt/hasnt worked
If we was in games, and just lacking that little bit of quality I'd be more inclined to give him time.
However, the manner of defeats are alarming. You can argue "we're only 7 games in" but we have lost 5 of them and bar 15 minutes against Cheltenham haven't looked remotely competitive in any of those games.
Yes, we beat Crewe but I think that says more about them than us and if Barry Bannan hadn't missed an absolute sitter we would have been looking at 6 defeats from 7.
Let's not forget about the dismal League Cup performance either.
When you're 7 games in and already getting desperate enough to drop 3 or 4 players from the squad completely and then have a good chunk of an away end calling for your head, you're just delaying the inevitable. There is no coming back from it.
This. It’s scary how bad we are, I got lol’d for this a few weeks ago but we are only 5/10 games away from a relegation battle should this continue.
Nobody wants Adkins to fail, but do we want to indulge him unto relegation? I don’t. There comes a time when something has to happen for the good of the club overall, and in my opinion Nigel has to make it happen tomorrow, and then for the next dozen games at least. I can’t see how he is going to do that given what has happened so far.
If we were in games, and just lacking that little bit of quality I'd be more inclined to give him time.
However, the manner of defeats is alarming. You can argue "we're only 7 games in" but we have lost 5 of them and bar 15 minutes against Cheltenham haven't looked remotely competitive in any of those games.
Yes, we beat Crewe but I think that says more about them than us and if Barry Bannan hadn't missed an absolute sitter we would have been looking at 6 defeats from 7.
Let's not forget about the dismal League Cup performance either.
When you're 7 games in and already getting desperate enough to drop 3 or 4 players from the squad completely and then have a good chunk of an away end calling for your head, you're just delaying the inevitable. There is no coming back from it.
It might potentially be a bit harsh but i tend to agree with this. From the position we're in and as bad as we're playing it would take something monumental to turn this mess around. It isn't impossible though and with games every 3-4 days it could turn quite quickly.
Realistically though when you change half the team and the new guys with a point to prove don't perform either then you're pretty screwed.
I'd prefer he stays and turns things round because he seems like a guy who values bringing players through the Academy and putting in place a structure where we improve year on year, playing decent football.
He says those things, but is there any evidence that he's actually operating like that?
Since pre season we've brought in so many overage players, an academy midfielder in Dempsey has had to be left out. The likes of Clayden and Ghandour are way down the pecking order now
Similarly the football we've played has been awful. We've totally given up on playing out from the back, for example
If Adkins goes his replacement needs to be able to recruit his own coaching team and have full responsibility for recruitment.
Or just let Adkins do that? To be honest I am shocked he took the job under those circumstances. Unless of course he was fed some porkies.
It was his choice, he's the boss, his coaching team report to him, if he's not happy he sorts it out. If its his failings, which I suspect is the case then he has to either pull his finger out PDQ or he has to go.
Didn’t The late great Jimmy Greaves once say “it’s a funny old game “ ? He was right. So far this season has been awful but things in football can change very quickly and unexpectedly. We go again tomorrow at a shitty venue where inevitably we do badly. Perhaps we need just a random piece of luck for things to happen. I still don’t believe Adkins has suddenly lost it. Things have just been shit. Shit happens. I’m predicting our luck turns. A one nil victory against the pikeys and a battling point v Pompey.
Didn’t The late great Jimmy Greaves once say “it’s a funny old game “ ? He was right. So far this season has been awful but things in football can change very quickly and unexpectedly. We go again tomorrow at a shitty venue where inevitably we do badly. Perhaps we need just a random piece of luck for things to happen. I still don’t believe Adkins has suddenly lost it. Things have just been shit. Shit happens. I’m predicting our luck turns. A one nil victory against the pikeys and a battling point v Pompey.
"Our luck turns" is only relevant if we have been unlucky.
We haven't been in the slightest unlucky, In fact I'd go as far as to say that we extremely fortunate to have only lost some of these by only one goal and to be second bottom rather than bottom.
For me he has three games left. If he gets a point or more at Gillingham then he hangs on, lose then the pressure on the next two home games in a toxic atmosphere will get to the players and he's done.
I hope to be wrong about Kirk at Charlton. And Lee, DJ, Arter, and others. Pratley was not a great player, but he had a great character, these days we seem to have a lot of players who are metaphorically leaning in doorways saying to team mates, ‘you go first, you do it’. I want players who want to be the ones to make a difference. And a manager who can do better than paint by numbers.
You're saying that about Arter based on Saturday?
I hope we see more from him than we saw on Saturday given his pedigree. I thought on Saturday he was ineffective. Do you think he was an upgrade on Morgan?
Yup. Never really been an albie fan. Gets on the ball quite a bit but rarely does anything useful with it. And doesn’t really look comfortable on the ball. And when the going gets tough he tends to disappear. And he can’t shoot straight. And his free kicks and corners are mediocre. Apart from that I rate him very highly 🙂.
I think/hope Arter will become more influential the more minutes he gets. Of course my hopes are often dashed.
If Adkins goes his replacement needs to be able to recruit his own coaching team and have full responsibility for recruitment.
Or just let Adkins do that? To be honest I am shocked he took the job under those circumstances. Unless of course he was fed some porkies.
It was his choice, he's the boss, his coaching team report to him, if he's not happy he sorts it out. If its his failings, which I suspect is the case then he has to either pull his finger out PDQ or he has to go.
Is he? Do they? Who appointed them, who said that Jackson was staying with the view of him one day being the manager, who promoted Euall? Who bangs on about, and implimented, coaching pathways? Who appointed the keeping coach?
Its nothing against Jackson and Euall. It's about the manager being in charge. This is the first job Adkins has ever had where he hasn't had Andy Crosby as his number two. The man offen described as his enforcer.
Even under Roland the manger had some say on his back room staff, even if finances ment it wasn't many.
This summer should have, once and for all, removed all the excuses/reasons for failer. It hasn't. For which Adkins will probably pay with his job. The next man will inherite the same problems. Who ever it is.
A draw tomorrow will buy him the game on Saturday, but lose to Portsmouth and he might get binned right then, or at best he will have Bolton as his last make or break game.
A draw tomorrow will buy him the game on Saturday, but lose to Portsmouth and he might get binned right then, or at best he will have Bolton as his last make or break game.
Lose to Gills and all bets are off.
A draw tomorrow and defeat to Pompey and the atmosphere at the Valley will be toxic. If that happens he'll be very lucky to still be in charge by Bolton.
As much as I want him gone now, giving him till the international break I could just stomach, but for him to stay it’s gotta be dramatic, I’m talking minimum 8/9 points from 12, the fact they are tough games for this league is irrelevant now.
A draw tomorrow will buy him the game on Saturday, but lose to Portsmouth and he might get binned right then, or at best he will have Bolton as his last make or break game.
Lose to Gills and all bets are off.
A draw tomorrow and defeat to Pompey and the atmosphere at the Valley will be toxic. If that happens he'll be very lucky to still be in charge by Bolton.
Youre probably right, in reality he might end up scraping a draw tomorrow and on Saturday. If thats the case that might buy him another 3 or 4 games. Not sure Id be up for that.
Tell you what though, I think if we lose 1-0 tomorrow he’ll carry on. I think it’s gonna take a real embarrassment to get rid of him, if he has lost the room, I’d rather us take a pounding 4-zip to illustrate it.
It's as much about the performances as the results for me
If we somehow win tomorrow because Gillingham are terrible and we are merely slightly less terrible, all that would do is paper over the cracks until we play a half decent side
It's as much about the performances as the results for me
If we somehow win tomorrow because Gillingham are terrible and we are merely slightly less terrible, all that would do is paper over the cracks until we play a half decent side
Agree. I was absolutely seething at the Cheltenham game. It’s the hope that does it, I thought the result V Crewe, no matter how poor they were, coupled with the good end to the window, would be the catalyst for a change in fortunes, so clearly we need a performance as much as a result.
I agree the performances are key, and I would now say the Crewe game was out of keeping with the season so far and a bit of a fluke. At Wycombe on Saturday, notwithstanding the individual abilities of players, I played for and against better structured and more cohesive teams in the Woolwich and District League than us at Adams Park. We weren’t just chite, we were chite squared.
I can not see our luck changing. The lack of any pace in the side outside of Washington, means we never get up the pitch in any meaningful way. Every player looks like they're operating in their own seperate bubble.
Adkins doesn't seem connected to the recruitment like Bowyer was. Bowyer talked about some players signing as if he had a professional and emotional attachment to them - as in he was well involved in the scouting of them, indeed as with Stockley it was him who identified and had personal contact with Risdale.
Adkins has been out of the game for a year and a half, but seems to have identified no one in that time. To not have agitated and advocated for fast energetic full backs, to fit his preferred 433 with this squad, deserves the most damning assesment.
I was in favour of keeping Shinnie, not massively so as I could see we deperately needed to inject the midfield with youth and dynamism. But yet we get one paced players, who lack offensive dynamism, and have never created goals and assists in their English playing career - Arter did in the champ almost 10 years ago. Whilst we give away Shinnie, who had an excellent link with Stockley. I wouldn't even blame our players as they don't look able to create chances.
I don't see this group of players like our first Champ relegation lot. But if an experienced manager insists on asking them to operate where they're so easily outnumbered, and where there is absolutely no attacking advantage, we will get relegated. There is no chance this squad is turning it around with anything other than everyone doubling up for each other, and sitting deep. Getting a draw with Adkins's formations is fanciful Elysium dreams.
Comments
Adkins has two more games and then if things haven't seriously improved I'll be joining these cries. What stays me is his frustration at how the players are failing to carry out his commands. He needs to be ruthless and excise the poison, wherever it is, and whoever is responsible. I'm not convinced Adkins has identified the right scapegoats yet, or to put it more pleasantly, a combination that works. As I say, two games.
If he goes, we need someone who looks at the players we have and can convince us, the management team and coaching staff that he can continue with that, but also start us winning again.
What I don't want is someone who is desperate for a job at any club regardless, comes in with his own team of coaches and then starts saying the players are not good enough and things will be fine once he's spent a load of money at Xmas on players that match his style. I'm thinking of the Big Sams here, whose personality overshadows everything else at the club.
Success is everything of course, and I remember Curbs not being well liked when he took over on his own. But he won us round by gradually improving things until we got to the Prem.
It's been said many times before, but our best recent managers have been pretty much untested elsewhere, and appointed more because no one else was available/affordable. Lawrence, Curbs, Powell and Bowyer were all a punt at the time and we all knew they were there because we couldn't afford anyone else.
Adkins had a lot of early success - Scunnie won League 1 in his first season, were then relegated, went up via Play-Offs and then finished 20th. At Southampton he famously took them from League 1 to the Prem in consecutive seasons, but that was 10 years ago. Since then his teams have finished mid-tableish. Has football overtaken his coaching style? Hard to say, but for me, the current team doesn't lack for skill, but that is something that is more effective when a team is winning. What it lacks is grit, determination and concentration for 90 mins. It lacks an aggressive leader and a bit of shit-housery.
I love the beautiful game, but I also like to see us mix it up a bit, get in the oppo's faces and intimidate them. In my opinion, this is what is needed right now to grind out some results. So, tomorrow night I want to see Adkins throw his jacket to the ground after a controversial decision and then square up to the Gills manager. That's the passion needed right now, and it needs to start with him.
If we were in games, and just lacking that little bit of quality I'd be more inclined to give him time.
However, the manner of defeats is alarming. You can argue "we're only 7 games in" but we have lost 5 of them and bar 15 minutes against Cheltenham haven't looked remotely competitive in any of those games.
Yes, we beat Crewe but I think that says more about them than us and if Barry Bannan hadn't missed an absolute sitter we would have been looking at 6 defeats from 7.
Let's not forget about the dismal League Cup performance either.
When you're 7 games in and already getting desperate enough to drop 3 or 4 players from the squad completely and then have a good chunk of an away end calling for your head, you're just delaying the inevitable. There is no coming back from it.
Whoever if anyone comes in they need to bring in there own fresh blood and have a more hands on role on recruitment we can see so far the way its been going isnt/hasnt worked
I don’t. There comes a time when something has to happen for the good of the club overall, and in my opinion Nigel has to make it happen tomorrow, and then for the next dozen games at least.
I can’t see how he is going to do that given what has happened so far.
Realistically though when you change half the team and the new guys with a point to prove don't perform either then you're pretty screwed.
Since pre season we've brought in so many overage players, an academy midfielder in Dempsey has had to be left out. The likes of Clayden and Ghandour are way down the pecking order now
Similarly the football we've played has been awful. We've totally given up on playing out from the back, for example
Exeter missed out on promotion from L2.
Finishing a disappointing 9th.
We haven't been in the slightest unlucky, In fact I'd go as far as to say that we extremely fortunate to have only lost some of these by only one goal and to be second bottom rather than bottom.
Its nothing against Jackson and Euall. It's about the manager being in charge. This is the first job Adkins has ever had where he hasn't had Andy Crosby as his number two. The man offen described as his enforcer.
Even under Roland the manger had some say on his back room staff, even if finances ment it wasn't many.
This summer should have, once and for all, removed all the excuses/reasons for failer. It hasn't. For which Adkins will probably pay with his job. The next man will inherite the same problems. Who ever it is.
Lose to Gills and all bets are off.
Its almost like some of us want to go a goal down so we can get on his back.
If we somehow win tomorrow because Gillingham are terrible and we are merely slightly less terrible, all that would do is paper over the cracks until we play a half decent side
At Wycombe on Saturday, notwithstanding the individual abilities of players, I played for and against better structured and more cohesive teams in the Woolwich and District League than us at Adams Park.
We weren’t just chite, we were chite squared.
Adkins doesn't seem connected to the recruitment like Bowyer was. Bowyer talked about some players signing as if he had a professional and emotional attachment to them - as in he was well involved in the scouting of them, indeed as with Stockley it was him who identified and had personal contact with Risdale.
Adkins has been out of the game for a year and a half, but seems to have identified no one in that time. To not have agitated and advocated for fast energetic full backs, to fit his preferred 433 with this squad, deserves the most damning assesment.
I was in favour of keeping Shinnie, not massively so as I could see we deperately needed to inject the midfield with youth and dynamism. But yet we get one paced players, who lack offensive dynamism, and have never created goals and assists in their English playing career - Arter did in the champ almost 10 years ago. Whilst we give away Shinnie, who had an excellent link with Stockley. I wouldn't even blame our players as they don't look able to create chances.
I don't see this group of players like our first Champ relegation lot. But if an experienced manager insists on asking them to operate where they're so easily outnumbered, and where there is absolutely no attacking advantage, we will get relegated. There is no chance this squad is turning it around with anything other than everyone doubling up for each other, and sitting deep. Getting a draw with Adkins's formations is fanciful Elysium dreams.