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State of 'fans' during International tournaments
Comments
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You should be more concerned about your 'customers' trying to bunk out.AddickUpNorth said:On the flip side I’ve been to a few games where I’ve wanted to bunk out but accepted my fate because it’d be a waste of my hard earned.5 -
How can you tell where the posts came from?Croydon said:Seen this doing the rounds on twitter and Instagram today, and it certainly backs up what people said earlier on this thread about international accounts being abusive on twitter. I've got no idea where the data is from though, or if it's reliable. Also doesn't take into count people using VPNs
Vpns are a thing. Fake accounts pretending to be some guy halfway across the world/anonymous accounts are also a thing.2 -
I bumped into a few people who used to be in my year at school who were boasting they bunked in. Said they'd done the same for the Denmark game, wankers tbh - and this lot i'm 95% have never gone to the England game in there life.
Similarly in front of us were three 16 year olds who bunked in and were facetiming their mum it looked like. It was certainly a weird crowd, loads of people in and around Wembley just there as an excuse to get pissed/coked up from 11 am, not convinced they like football much.3 -
Which is exactly what Croydon said.SELR_addicks said:
How can you tell where the posts came from?Croydon said:Seen this doing the rounds on twitter and Instagram today, and it certainly backs up what people said earlier on this thread about international accounts being abusive on twitter. I've got no idea where the data is from though, or if it's reliable. Also doesn't take into count people using VPNs
Vpns are a thing. Fake accounts pretending to be some guy halfway across the world/anonymous accounts are also a thing.3 -
I have a 6 month old son. I can guarantee that he will never ever behave like these cretins. My kids will grow up with morals and respect. I know it’s been said but how anyone could be ‘proud’ of that behaviour needs their head testing.
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A Charlton season ticket maybe? Oh wait...he could just bunk in!EricBanterna said:So if he had a budget of 500 for a ticket what has he spent that money on now considering he got in for free?1 -
Shocking use of colours......you can barely tell some of them apart.Croydon said:Seen this doing the rounds on twitter and Instagram today, and it certainly backs up what people said earlier on this thread about international accounts being abusive on twitter. I've got no idea where the data is from though, or if it's reliable. Also doesn't take into count people using VPNs0 -
Racist.SuedeAdidas said:
Shocking use of colours......you can barely tell some of them apart.Croydon said:Seen this doing the rounds on twitter and Instagram today, and it certainly backs up what people said earlier on this thread about international accounts being abusive on twitter. I've got no idea where the data is from though, or if it's reliable. Also doesn't take into count people using VPNs16 -
This really doesn’t surprise me. As soon as I heard about the predictable racist tweeting, I thought fake accounts, Bots, overseas tweeters, people looking to divide us. You will get a handful of dickheads tweeting racist stuff but I’m convinced that a sizeable amount of this stuff is fake. Just because England lost, it doesn’t necessarily mean it was English people tweeting it. All I have seen is an outpouring of good will and support for the three players, apart from the shocking defacing of the Rashford mural.Croydon said:Seen this doing the rounds on twitter and Instagram today, and it certainly backs up what people said earlier on this thread about international accounts being abusive on twitter. I've got no idea where the data is from though, or if it's reliable. Also doesn't take into count people using VPNsI’m really intrigued to know where this data came from and whether it’s real. Would be nice if Twitter worked with the authorities to establish the facts from the bullshit.4 -
Whilst bunking/jibbing is no doubt wrong however you look at it, there is of course always a scale and I think, in slight fairness to Sunbury, there is a big difference between some fan taking an opportunity presented/using their initiative to gain entry, over the very obvious mob mentality and violent manner of Sunday’s experiences, undertaken by many (in my view) with no or little interest in football/England etc.
Stories of years gone by are rife of people using a bit of guile (fake press passes, existing hole in a wire fence, £20 to the turnstile operator etc etc ) to make it into a game and have always been seen, in isolation, as rather harmless in football circles.I got into the ground in Montenegro with a fake ticket locals were selling in the pub for £5 euros. Sometimes an opportunity present itself and in the moment you think why not. In the Germany WC2006 I went without tickets, paid £170 off a tout for Eng v Ecuador (what a borefest that was). If I had been near the ground however and an opportunity presented itself to sneak in, I’m honest enough to say I may have gone for it in my more naive and desperate teenage years.
What I would not ever have been part of is any mob/violent movement to achieve entry.
I know it’s ultimate strawman, but how many here have put their foot down and slightly exceeded the speed limit because it suited at the time. All/most of us I’m sure. It could have resulted in a crash still but it’s one end of the scale. I’m sure (hopefully) much less of us have been one of those cretins bombing along 10-20mph over the limit - Other end of the scale.I guess I’m just saying not all bunking/jibbing in is exactly the same and all of us do things we shouldn’t at times, but what I saw on Sunday was different and unprecedented here on that scale and rightly condemned.7 - Sponsored links:
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John Barnes hitting the nail on the head during a Jeremy Vine interview on R2 just now.
Cutting through all the BS being spouted on the media today.
JB for PM.0 -
I'm not going to give it any credibility by quoting it, but the stats above look more and more like complete an utter nonsense the longer I look at them. Are we truly expected to believe that the 9 countries responsible for the most racial comments in relation to a football tournament are from countries that are not even entitled to participate in that tournament? Do we believe that any serious researcher would note the time that they did their research, but not the date? Do we believe that 1.7 million social media posts were analysed 'manually' - how many research assistants did they have? More than the world's covid labs combined by the looks of things. Do we trust a study whose own section on limitations contradicts itself as to whether they found all instances of abuse or not?
This has all the hallmarks of the sort of fake nonsense that is spread about to deliberately to infect the opinions of those unwilling or unable to engage in a bit of critical thinking. I strongly suspect that the underlying aim of those publishing this particular piece was to engender a world view where people in the UK believe they are less racist than Asians and Africans so that certain sections of the population can shrug their shoulders and say, 'we don't have to worry about racism, because we're not the problem. The real problem is over there'.
I really wish it hadn't been posted here (or anywhere else for that matter). Most of all, I really wish people would think carefully about the junk that they are reading on the internet before proliferating it.13 -
Are you on Twitter? Have you taken a look at what they call ‘FT’?Stig said:I'm not going to give it any credibility by quoting it, but the stats above look more and more like complete an utter nonsense the longer I look at them. Are we truly expected to believe that the 9 countries responsible for the most racial comments in relation to a football tournament are from countries that are not even entitled to participate in that tournament? Do we believe that any serious researcher would note the time that they did their research, but not the date? Do we believe that 1.7 million social media posts were analysed 'manually' - how many research assistants did they have? More than the world's covid labs combined by the looks of things. Do we trust a study whose own section on limitations contradicts itself as to whether they found all instances of abuse or not?
This has all the hallmarks of the sort of fake nonsense that is spread about to deliberately to infect the opinions of those unwilling or unable to engage in a bit of critical thinking. I strongly suspect that the underlying aim of those publishing this particular piece was to engender a world view where people in the UK believe they are less racist than Asians and Africans so that certain sections of the population can shrug their shoulders and say, 'we don't have to worry about racism, because we're not the problem. The real problem is over there'.
I really wish it hadn't been posted here (or anywhere else for that matter). Most of all, I really wish people would think carefully about the junk that they are reading on the internet before proliferating it.0 -
I've not used my Twitter account for ages. No idea what FT is.0
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It’s football Twitter. Basically endless accounts set up by youngsters or immature adults called ‘Just_JorginhoCFC’ or ‘AmazingAuba’ etc. Dedicated to supporting one ‘EPL’ team or player and a huge amount of them are miles away in Asia or the Middle East, but bombard opposing accounts with abusive messages. I also noticed a large amount of posts on England’s media from footballing fans based in Africa, again mostly digging out certain individuals or the manager. This country certainly has a problem with racism and it needs addressing but just because the players are English, doesn’t mean the abuse is coming just from Middle Aged white men frothing at the mouth with a can in his hand. This is a world wide problem when it comes to social media.Stig said:I've not used my Twitter account for ages. No idea what FT is.11 -
I've got zero intention in getting into a conversation about just how many people in Britain are racist. Whatever the number is, I'm fully supportive of any attempt to eradicate this, although I realise unfortunately it will never be fully eliminated.Siv_in_Norfolk said:
Do you recognise that there is a deeply embedded problem with racism in British society?cafcfan1990 said:
Not quite an accurate interpretation of the truth though is it. Before the game there were 30 odd million people tuning in supporting the players. After the game a few scumbags took their anger out on our black players. Of course it's not acceptable, it's absolutely disgusting but I'm sick of reading about how England fans are all violent scumbags. It's a very small minority who have unfortunately ruined it for the majority who are just genuinely gutted without feeling the need to attack anyone.SELR_addicks said:
Because it shows that before the game they were supporting the players.SantaClaus said:
Why is posting something like that fair game but if you made similar broad brush statements about any other group people would have a fit. I really don't get the double standards.Baldybonce said:
But then immediately following the game Rashford, Sterling, Sancho and Saka's Instagram and twitter were filled with monkey emoji, bananas and the n-word.
Do you really think the fans sending racial abuse to those players are black?
Your post reads as if you don't. Have I got you wrong?
You can take what I said however you want, I'm certain most people saw it for what is was. I don't have the exact number, but I'm presuming we're not talking millions of people who were racially abusing those England players. It wasn't millions of people fighting in the streets, nor throwing glass everywhere.
What's angered me is the total hypocrisy. So much shite on social media about happiness England lost because of the racial element. We lost in the final to Italy. To put this into context, a 2017 survey found Italy to be the most racist county in Western Europe. When European Parliament were involved to make moves against structural and violent racism, half of Italians voted against it. If England had won, would Italy have racially abused their own black players? No, because they don't have any, maybe Mario Balotelli is still struggling "to make himself whiter". The violence, at least Italy wouldn't have reacted in such a way had they lost. No of course they wouldn't. When Liverpool won the 1984 cup, whose fans started stabbing Liverpool fans after their defeat? That's right, Roma.
I'm not condoning the behaviour of any of the English fans who have in some part, made me ashamed to be English. Nor am I saying it's acceptable to be a little bit racist as long as we don't reach the levels of Italy or Russia. I'm just saying that a bit of context is needed. We're being painted in a terrible light at the moment throughout the World and although we have to take some of it on the chin as unfortunately, there is good reason, it's also important to remember that 99% of the fans the other night were simply deflated come 11pm Sunday and did nothing wrong.7 -
Sounds dreadful. One more reason to give Twitter a swerve.ValleyGary said:
It’s football Twitter. Basically endless accounts set up by youngsters or immature adults called ‘Just_JorginhoCFC’ or ‘AmazingAuba’ etc. Dedicated to supporting one ‘EPL’ team or player and a huge amount of them are miles away in Asia or the Middle East, but bombard opposing accounts with abusive messages. I also noticed a large amount of posts on England’s media from footballing fans based in Africa, again mostly digging out certain individuals or the manager. This country certainly has a problem with racism and it needs addressing but just because the players are English, doesn’t mean the abuse is coming just from Middle Aged white men frothing at the mouth with a can in his hand. This is a world wide problem when it comes to social media.Stig said:I've not used my Twitter account for ages. No idea what FT is.1 -
BTW, I'm not denying that there is racism in other countries @ValleyGary or that people from other countries have an interest in English football. I am questioning the efficacy of the stats presented here and the motivations of their originators.
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They are still considered private property, even though they are owned by the town.stop_shouting said:
Ok fair enough. What about municipal golf courses tho. I’ve played and drunk at muni’s.SomervilleAddick said:
Nope, you don’t get those - golf courses are private property, tailgating also takes place in private areas. I’m only aware of two places where you can drink in a public area - LV and the French Quarter in New Orleans. There may be others, and sometimes the Police don’t enforce it. We have a local music festival here where the police ignore people drinking from cans, but if they need to arrest you for something else, you’ll be charged with public drinking as well.stop_shouting said:
Or on golf courses, tailgates etcse9addick said:
Not on the Las Vegas strip!ct_addick said:In the USA it's illegal to drink in public...... out in the open while walking around streets and really only allowed in pubs restaurants and bars....That might be something to consider....and yes I know the USA has ridiculous gun lawsSomeone else mentioned overserving. Bars here are really careful about that as they, as a business, and the bartender asan individual, can be held legally responsible if a drunk is involved in an accident. I see people getting refused service all the time.Stop the drinking in public areas would be a start. If people have to drink in pubs you can get two mitigating factors - price, and making pubs responsible for their customers conduct.Generally, and there can always be a local exemption, any public street, common, forest or beach is off limits unless it’s private property, in which case it’s up to the owner.0 -
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@Stig you'd be very surprised using as an example the amount of racist abuse one of our U23 was sun Aouachia receives from Middle Eastern / Notth Africa accountsStig said:BTW, I'm not denying that there is racism in other countries @ValleyGary or that people from other countries have an interest in English football. I am questioning the efficacy of the stats presented here and the motivations of their originators.
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Few examples of Football TwitterValleyGary said:
It’s football Twitter. Basically endless accounts set up by youngsters or immature adults called ‘Just_JorginhoCFC’ or ‘AmazingAuba’ etc. Dedicated to supporting one ‘EPL’ team or player and a huge amount of them are miles away in Asia or the Middle East, but bombard opposing accounts with abusive messages. I also noticed a large amount of posts on England’s media from footballing fans based in Africa, again mostly digging out certain individuals or the manager. This country certainly has a problem with racism and it needs addressing but just because the players are English, doesn’t mean the abuse is coming just from Middle Aged white men frothing at the mouth with a can in his hand. This is a world wide problem when it comes to social media.Stig said:I've not used my Twitter account for ages. No idea what FT is.0 -
I'm not massively surprised an Algerian receives racist abuse from others in North Africa and the Middle East, nor am I massively surprised by people thinking that what has flown since 10:54 on Sunday is all the works of troll farms.AFKABartram said:
@Stig you'd be very surprised using as an example the amount of racist abuse one of our U23 was sun Aouachia receives from Middle Eastern / Notth Africa accountsStig said:BTW, I'm not denying that there is racism in other countries @ValleyGary or that people from other countries have an interest in English football. I am questioning the efficacy of the stats presented here and the motivations of their originators.0 -
What’s the pengland thing?2
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It seems to be a troll thing on twitter... "Pessi" | "Penaldo" | "Pernandes" | "Pengland"EugenesAxe said:What’s the pengland thing?
Think its some slur that suggests the person / team constantly relies upon penalties (not shootouts) to win games.0 -
Why not? We have had years of people saying that's the cause of all elections going the way they don't want...Rothko said:
I'm not massively surprised an Algerian receives racist abuse from others in North Africa and the Middle East, nor am I massively surprised by people thinking that what has flown since 10:54 on Sunday is all the works of troll farms.AFKABartram said:
@Stig you'd be very surprised using as an example the amount of racist abuse one of our U23 was sun Aouachia receives from Middle Eastern / Notth Africa accountsStig said:BTW, I'm not denying that there is racism in other countries @ValleyGary or that people from other countries have an interest in English football. I am questioning the efficacy of the stats presented here and the motivations of their originators.3 -
Oh ok thanksForeverAddickted said:
It seems to be a troll thing on twitter... "Pessi" | "Penaldo" | "Pernandes" | "Pengland"EugenesAxe said:What’s the pengland thing?
Think its some slur that suggests the person / team constantly relies upon penalties (not shootouts) to win games.
thats quite (P)athetic.2 -
Because it's a fantastic excuse for those who don't want to deal with the issue to hide behind, and there is an awful lot of that on this thread.Huskaris said:
Why not? We have had years of people saying that's the cause of all elections going the way they don't want...Rothko said:
I'm not massively surprised an Algerian receives racist abuse from others in North Africa and the Middle East, nor am I massively surprised by people thinking that what has flown since 10:54 on Sunday is all the works of troll farms.AFKABartram said:
@Stig you'd be very surprised using as an example the amount of racist abuse one of our U23 was sun Aouachia receives from Middle Eastern / Notth Africa accountsStig said:BTW, I'm not denying that there is racism in other countries @ValleyGary or that people from other countries have an interest in English football. I am questioning the efficacy of the stats presented here and the motivations of their originators.1 -
I completely agree with you, I was asking why you are surprised though.Rothko said:
Because it's a fantastic excuse for those who don't want to deal with the issue to hide behind, and there is an awful lot of that on this thread.Huskaris said:
Why not? We have had years of people saying that's the cause of all elections going the way they don't want...Rothko said:
I'm not massively surprised an Algerian receives racist abuse from others in North Africa and the Middle East, nor am I massively surprised by people thinking that what has flown since 10:54 on Sunday is all the works of troll farms.AFKABartram said:
@Stig you'd be very surprised using as an example the amount of racist abuse one of our U23 was sun Aouachia receives from Middle Eastern / Notth Africa accountsStig said:BTW, I'm not denying that there is racism in other countries @ValleyGary or that people from other countries have an interest in English football. I am questioning the efficacy of the stats presented here and the motivations of their originators.0 -
Rothko said:With the greatest of respect, that is simply not supported by significant evidence and we should not allow a small number of morons and racists on social media to fool us into believing it.I suppose whether these racists are 'true fans' or not is a point of definition - but wanting to ostracise them by saying they should not be allowed to use that term about themselves is certainly not a way to excuse racism, it is the opposite. We should ostracise them because they are below our contempt to use the term 'true fans' about themselves.And it is hard to think of a reasonable definition of the term "great swathes" of our society that these morons represent. After years and years of so many people working to create a fairer society, the figures just do not bear that out.
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