The problem with doing a structured deal with Chelsea is the time taken and likelihood of any add ons to be realised. If its based on the likes of Chelsea appearances we'll be lucky to get anything extra and a sell on my take 6 years or more to materialise with the way they hoard players. Preference on this would been to get more up front to be honest as £1.6m for a young striker they've been desperate to snap up after only a handful of games seems low.
I’m pleased for Burstow that he has had a good start to his professional career in terms of goal scoring but there does seem to be a general consensus that we can’t be in any way sure that he will sustain that start. Is he a natural goal scorer or has he just been a bit lucky in his first few games? Will the rest of his play develop from what we’ve seen so far, and it does need improving? In saying £1.6 mill is ‘derisory’ we’re talking as if he’s the next Gomez, Lookman, Shelvey, Parker, Lee or even Konsa. Burstow is nowhere near the level of those players when they left, or even when they started playing regularly for our first team.
Chelsea can afford to take a punt, I’m sure we all hope Burstow does develop and fulfil his dreams, but at this stage it is a punt so, on this one, I’m happy to trust TS/JJ that it’s a fair deal.
I can’t help comparing him with Kanu. From what little I’ve seen Kanu has much more potential than MB - no a criticism of MB but, injuries apart, would much rather bet my house on DK being a star of the future, he has special qualities that should yield goals at whatever level he plays.
If we’re sitting here this time next year having got the same deal for Kanu then the complaints will be fully justified.
I don’t see the big deal to be honest. The club are happy we’ve got a substantial fee.
It doesn’t feel like a Parker or Gomez situation. He’s had a few good performances and now he’s off to a top 4 club for a big fee.
Reminds me of Carl Jenkinson to Arsenal.
Is it substantial though?
I think one of the things I’m most peed off about is I suspect in comparison to what could be paid to promising contracted youngsters, it won’t be. It just all seems too easy.
This was my thoughts on Monday and if true it’s just £1.6m (which now seems extremely probable) then worryingly that now seems more weighted to me as a quick cash grab sale, that having him signed to a contract for another 18 months was exactly there to avoid needing.
Can only view it as bad business unless the coaching team don’t think he’s going to improve, which I see as very unlikely.
I don’t see the big deal to be honest. The club are happy we’ve got a substantial fee.
It doesn’t feel like a Parker or Gomez situation. He’s had a few good performances and now he’s off to a top 4 club for a big fee.
Reminds me of Carl Jenkinson to Arsenal.
Is it substantial though?
I think one of the things I’m most peed off about is I suspect in comparison to what could be paid to promising contracted youngsters, it won’t be. It just all seems too easy.
This was my thoughts on Monday and if true it’s just £1.6m (which now seems extremely probable) then worryingly that now seems more weighted to me as a quick cash grab sale, that having him signed to a contract for another 18 months was exactly there to avoid needing.
Can only view it as bad business unless the coaching team don’t think he’s going to improve, which I see as very unlikely.
Disappointing
The penny will drop sooner or later mate.
This doesn't speak of much prospect of the requisite summer rebuild or execution of a masterplan strategy to get us up and out of the league.
Actions speak louder than words and soundbites.
I thought if we had got £4m or silly money like that then it would be crazy to turn it down as that could buy the best part of a competitive squad especially if we keep him on loan and loan him even next season.
Feels like we've cashed in way too low when we don't have a massive line of goalscorers in our ranks.
Either potentially poor business or necessity which doesn't bode well for an optimistic outlook on promotion prospects next term or anytime soon.
31 August is the key date for me that I think we'll definitely know the ability and/ or appetite for a real promotion challenge in next couple of years but stuff like this doesn't do anything to allay my pessimism about our prospects.
Both Chelsea and Man City, hover up young players just in case. 1.6 million is peanuts to Chelsea who make a business out of the loan system. May be different now with Mason Mount who has been at Chelsea since before he could tie his own bootlaces but they went a decade and had thousands of their academy boys no where near the first team; from John Terry to Loftus-Check before that started to change. No chance under Jose who even let Kevin De Bruyne and Mo Salah leave when they were in their early 20's !
I have no inside track on this deal or MB wages other than 1.6 million was the amount (see Airman Brown above) but I do know that an 18 year old who got a move to a smaller Premier club, from a League 1 team last season was on 10k a week as soon as he signed.
I know this is the wrong place for positive spin right now but I'll give it a go anyway. Mason's contract was starting to tick down and there was a log jam of players (possibly better players) in the youth set up with no pathway to the first team and no inclination to sign their first contracts. The deal wasn't amazing in itself but it seems to have enabled lots of other positives and that needs to be factored into the equation.
Only because it hasn't been mentioned yet but I wonder if the figure was higher, 2.5 million up front but no loan back to Cafc would Thomas Sandgaard have been able to say No?
The add-ons are unlikely to happen but obviously Mason has only just started on his career and Chelsea who were well aware of Burstow after his 6 week trial in February 2020 with their conveyor belt system decider to let him grow somewhere else as they knew they could always come back in for him a couple of year later and pick him up for loose change compared to the near on 100 million they spent on Lukaku.
Only one man can answer that; we can only speculate.
I still believe Thomas Sandgaard is a good owner but the football facts of life are hitting him hard since his OTT comments of last year.
If we had rejected the bids, fast forward to Summer, Chelsea would have put a deal/feeler in place to sign Burstow at the age of 19 on a free in season 22/23.
There are other possible outcomes, than just getting a higher fee.
Can't pretend I don't think that's low. It's 2 or 3 decent league one players, when I was hoping it might really give us a chance to add quality in the summer in more areas.
Maybe we were scared of an Aribo situation, but that was 18 months away, not 6.
Given more than one club was interested, would it have been so bad waiting until the summer, hoping he scored a few more to push that price up?
If we had rejected the bids, moved to Summer, Chelsea would have put a deal/feeler in place to sign Burstow at the age of 19 on a free in season 22/23.
There are other possible outcomes, than just getting a higher fee.
Yep as has been seen at Fulham, where they'll lose out on £8m for an established Championship player in the summer. Is Fabio Carvalho 4x the player/vaule of Burstow at the moment, yep, and is there a ceiling on what Burstow is worth in League 1, yep. The question is whether that ceiling is £1.6m?
I know this is the wrong place for positive spin right now but I'll give it a go anyway. Mason's contract was starting to tick down and there was a log jam of players (possibly better players) in the youth set up with no pathway to the first team and no inclination to sign their first contracts. The deal wasn't amazing in itself but it seems to have enabled lots of other positives and that needs to be factored into the equation.
Face it Santa, Kanu & co will be going the same way next year or the year after.
Don't get this hysteria. Burstow has looked bang average to me so far. Yes, he's scored a couple of rebounds, but aside from his breakaway in the paint pot trophy that the keeper should've done better with, nothing that you could say has 'caught the eye'. He has played 3 league games this season, and despite his goals has the same average rating from the fans as Ben Watson! I'm sure there's potential, but the same hysteria would've happened if we'd sold Davison for 1.6m when he'd been banging them in for the U23s, whereas we'd take a quarter of that now and say 'good deal'.
If we had rejected the bids, moved to Summer, Chelsea would have put a deal/feeler in place to sign Burstow at the age of 19 on a free in season 22/23.
There are other possible outcomes, than just getting a higher fee.
Yep as has been seen at Fulham, where they'll lose out on £8m for an established Championship player in the summer. Is Fabio Carvalho 4x the player/vaule of Burstow at the moment, yep, and is there a ceiling on what Burstow is worth in League 1, yep. The question is whether that ceiling is £1.6m?
They won't lose out on £8m, they'll get compensation - largely reported that Liverpool might agree £8m anyway so they get it sorted early, avoid competition from him and avoid the tribunal.
We wouldn't have list Mason for nothing in 18 months.
Have we also considered that he hasn't been coached by a Professional team until the age of 17. He will spend the next few seasons learning the game on loan, hopefully develop himself and get the goals to move around the PL and ensure we receive £5-8m in the process.
I know this is the wrong place for positive spin right now but I'll give it a go anyway. Mason's contract was starting to tick down and there was a log jam of players (possibly better players) in the youth set up with no pathway to the first team and no inclination to sign their first contracts. The deal wasn't amazing in itself but it seems to have enabled lots of other positives and that needs to be factored into the equation.
Face it Santa, Kanu & co will be going the same way next year or the year after.
That's a hell of a lot better than seeing them leave without kicking a ball for the first team and if we're lucky earning Charlton a derisory amount of compensation.
If the new model for the club is to get our young stars to sign 2-3 year contracts and then fast track them into the first team with an eye to a quick sale I can live with that.
It's not ideal and you'd hope that some of the youngsters stay longer and others are sold for far more than Burstow but something had to change.
Do people have any examples of any other League One strikers with so few appearances going for (a lot) more money?
I'm not saying I'm happy with the fee but is it a case of "it is what it is"? And that's not even taking into account Mason's wishes and desires.
A couple of bench marks to consider
Ollie Watkins went from League 2 to the championship for, guess what, an undisclosed fee, beloved to be in the region of £1.8 million, he was 21.
Ivan Toney was 19 and had scored 11 in 53 in league 2 when he went to Newcastle for £400k.
Kwadwo Baah went to Watford, at 18 ,last January for £125k.
Other considerations:
It won't cost us promotion or relegation this season. Previous transfers either have or potentially have.
It probably wouldn't change our Summer transfer plans significantly if it was £1, £1 million or £10 million. It would just alter how much Thomas has to stump up himself.
I’m disappointed as I feel structurally we should have stronger foundations to withhold some bids and drive up the price for contracted young talent, and I don’t feel we reached that ceiling with this.
However, what I will say on reflection and in concession is that this is a serious loss making outfit. We are pretty much confirmed at this level for another 18 months and we also need a rebuild to even have a possible chance of getting out of it at the end of that. It is tough, so much more tough than Sandgaard naively expected. Every month the is a lumpy cheque to write to keep it viable. If he needs to shore up some of the losses, then I kind of get that too.
Chunky sell on and also Mason was very keen on the move, so understandable.
Hard to value.
If Mason was keen on a move I'm sure Chelsea would've known that, it makes it a tougher negotiation from our point of view.
From Mason's point of view, if you are going to earn 7-10k a week, and get to be signed for one of the largest clubs in England and the World (Everyone knows who Chelsea is) You are not going to turn that kind of move down, when you think of the high-quality coaching set up etc.
From a job and professional perspective, even if Charlton is the club you support as a football player, you can understand why him and his family wanted to go, money talks.
We signed him from Maidstone two years ago, hit a good profit margin with good sell-on benefits. Shortly followed by two new youngsters from our own academy who we have brought through the ranks signing new pro deals.
And you can see why, It is great advertisement for us, Come train and learn your game at Charlton and look where you can end up.. Signing for Chelsea, even if it is getting sent back out on loan, it is a dream for so many young footballers.
I know this is the wrong place for positive spin right now but I'll give it a go anyway. Mason's contract was starting to tick down and there was a log jam of players (possibly better players) in the youth set up with no pathway to the first team and no inclination to sign their first contracts. The deal wasn't amazing in itself but it seems to have enabled lots of other positives and that needs to be factored into the equation.
Face it Santa, Kanu & co will be going the same way next year or the year after.
That's a hell of a lot better than seeing them leave without kicking a ball for the first team and if we're lucky earning Charlton a derisory amount of compensation.
If the new model for the club is to get our young stars to sign 2-3 year contracts and then fast track them into the first team with an eye to a quick sale I can live with that.
It's not ideal and you'd hope that some of the youngsters stay longer and others are sold for far more than Burstow but something had to change.
It's about the long term, which thank goodness TS and the people now running the club can seem to see. Of course in our world of Championship manager we want to only let a player go for silly money but realistically that doesn't happen.
We snapped a player up 18 months ago from non league, he has scored 5 goals (including a couple in what are in effect reserve team games) and potentially got ourselves a lot of money in the future but at the very least a decent cash injection to balance the books and keep pushing us in the right direction.
I am sure he has potential but he hasn't shown enough yet to suggest he is the next Ivan Toney or Jamie Vardy. I don't think he would get in many of our current first 11's in mid table league one.
I trust TS that he has got us a good deal for the club moving forward.
TS is not rich in footballing terms and in this transfer window he has brought in two decent players and lost one who has only played circa 600 mins of first team football. He is in profit which may fund another player in the next window. From his point of view rather than ours it was good business. We will continue to sell young players the same as most clubs and in this instance I am glad it was Burstow and not Kanu.
All the people saying £1.6 million is poor, how much do you think he's worth? He's played a handful of games and scored a couple of goals in League One, I cant see how he could attract much more than that.
Charlie Kirk had nearly 200 Crewe appearances and 28 goals behind him, but he was only 500k. Regardless of how it turned out for him here it's an interesting thought.
Do people have any examples of any other League One strikers with so few appearances going for (a lot) more money?
I'm not saying I'm happy with the fee but is it a case of "it is what it is"? And that's not even taking into account Mason's wishes and desires.
I've been thinking about one such; Josh Maja from Sunderland. Quite a similar player in some ways, not quite as tall as Mason, perhaps not so good in the air. He left, in a January window for £1.7m, it was messy and much documented in the Netflix series. He was though one year older than Mason at the time, but then again, his talent had already been much in evidence. I remember that against us in the home game (1-1) he was quiet for the first hour and then suddenly came to life and started to scare the shite out of me. Mason hasn't done that to other teams yet, at least not in L1.
However, Mason is back with us, so we will have the chance to test the fee; double-edged sword, that. If he continues to develop at his current rate, we are going to be very pissed off come the end of season...unless we feel there might be a chance to get him back again next season. If that happened I'd be a fair bit happier.
All the people saying £1.6 million is poor, how much do you think he's worth? He's played a handful of games and scored a couple of goals in League One, I cant see how he could attract much more than that.
Charlie Kirk had nearly 200 Crewe appearances and 28 goals behind him, but he was only 500k. Regardless of how it turned out for him here it's an interesting thought.
If we had paid 1.6 million for him, after half a dozen games for Burton, what do you think the reaction would be?
Would it be fair to say VOTV hasn't exactly been huge fans of Sandgaard so far?
You mean we have not seen Rick having a selfie with TS or singing to him in the Oak?
I think VOTV has been very fair in the reporting of the TS and does see the bigger picture. I find too many supporters are very over protective of TS and any hint of questioning decisions made are seen as anti TS
Comments
Chelsea can afford to take a punt, I’m sure we all hope Burstow does develop and fulfil his dreams, but at this stage it is a punt so, on this one, I’m happy to trust TS/JJ that it’s a fair deal.
I can’t help comparing him with Kanu. From what little I’ve seen Kanu has much more potential than MB - no a criticism of MB but, injuries apart, would much rather bet my house on DK being a star of the future, he has special qualities that should yield goals at whatever level he plays.
If we’re sitting here this time next year having got the same deal for Kanu then the complaints will be fully justified.
This doesn't speak of much prospect of the requisite summer rebuild or execution of a masterplan strategy to get us up and out of the league.
Actions speak louder than words and soundbites.
I thought if we had got £4m or silly money like that then it would be crazy to turn it down as that could buy the best part of a competitive squad especially if we keep him on loan and loan him even next season.
Feels like we've cashed in way too low when we don't have a massive line of goalscorers in our ranks.
Either potentially poor business or necessity which doesn't bode well for an optimistic outlook on promotion prospects next term or anytime soon.
31 August is the key date for me that I think we'll definitely know the ability and/ or appetite for a real promotion challenge in next couple of years but stuff like this doesn't do anything to allay my pessimism about our prospects.
I have no inside track on this deal or MB wages other than 1.6 million was the amount (see Airman Brown above) but I do know that an 18 year old who got a move to a smaller Premier club, from a League 1 team last season was on 10k a week as soon as he signed.
The add-ons are unlikely to happen but obviously Mason has only just started on his career and Chelsea who were well aware of Burstow after his 6 week trial in February 2020 with their conveyor belt system decider to let him grow somewhere else as they knew they could always come back in for him a couple of year later and pick him up for loose change compared to the near on 100 million they spent on Lukaku.
Only one man can answer that; we can only speculate.
I still believe Thomas Sandgaard is a good owner but the football facts of life are hitting him hard since his OTT comments of last year.
There are other possible outcomes, than just getting a higher fee.
Maybe we were scared of an Aribo situation, but that was 18 months away, not 6.
Given more than one club was interested, would it have been so bad waiting until the summer, hoping he scored a few more to push that price up?
We wouldn't have list Mason for nothing in 18 months.
I'm not saying I'm happy with the fee but is it a case of "it is what it is"? And that's not even taking into account Mason's wishes and desires.
If the new model for the club is to get our young stars to sign 2-3 year contracts and then fast track them into the first team with an eye to a quick sale I can live with that.
It's not ideal and you'd hope that some of the youngsters stay longer and others are sold for far more than Burstow but something had to change.
Ollie Watkins went from League 2 to the championship for, guess what, an undisclosed fee, beloved to be in the region of £1.8 million, he was 21.
Ivan Toney was 19 and had scored 11 in 53 in league 2 when he went to Newcastle for £400k.
Kwadwo Baah went to Watford, at 18 ,last January for £125k.
Other considerations:
It won't cost us promotion or relegation this season. Previous transfers either have or potentially have.
It probably wouldn't change our Summer transfer plans significantly if it was £1, £1 million or £10 million. It would just alter how much Thomas has to stump up himself.
However, what I will say on reflection and in concession is that this is a serious loss making outfit. We are pretty much confirmed at this level for another 18 months and we also need a rebuild to even have a possible chance of getting out of it at the end of that. It is tough, so much more tough than Sandgaard naively expected. Every month the is a lumpy cheque to write to keep it viable. If he needs to shore up some of the losses, then I kind of get that too.
From a job and professional perspective, even if Charlton is the club you support as a football player, you can understand why him and his family wanted to go, money talks.
We signed him from Maidstone two years ago, hit a good profit margin with good sell-on benefits. Shortly followed by two new youngsters from our own academy who we have brought through the ranks signing new pro deals.
And you can see why, It is great advertisement for us, Come train and learn your game at Charlton and look where you can end up.. Signing for Chelsea, even if it is getting sent back out on loan, it is a dream for so many young footballers.
We snapped a player up 18 months ago from non league, he has scored 5 goals (including a couple in what are in effect reserve team games) and potentially got ourselves a lot of money in the future but at the very least a decent cash injection to balance the books and keep pushing us in the right direction.
I am sure he has potential but he hasn't shown enough yet to suggest he is the next Ivan Toney or Jamie Vardy. I don't think he would get in many of our current first 11's in mid table league one.
I trust TS that he has got us a good deal for the club moving forward.
We will continue to sell young players the same as most clubs and in this instance I am glad it was Burstow and not Kanu.
Charlie Kirk had nearly 200 Crewe appearances and 28 goals behind him, but he was only 500k. Regardless of how it turned out for him here it's an interesting thought.
However, Mason is back with us, so we will have the chance to test the fee; double-edged sword, that. If he continues to develop at his current rate, we are going to be very pissed off come the end of season...unless we feel there might be a chance to get him back again next season. If that happened I'd be a fair bit happier.
I think VOTV has been very fair in the reporting of the TS and does see the bigger picture. I find too many supporters are very over protective of TS and any hint of questioning decisions made are seen as anti TS