1. Adkins suggests the kind of players he needs, gives the requirements of what they MUST have and probably even names some that do the job of such players. 2. Gallen goes out, taps up contacts and uses his relationships to find players that match Adkins requirements - Comes back to Adkins to check suitability 3. When NA & SG are happy I'd hope it was straight to Sandgaard, but I fear this is where Roddy steps in. I don't get what he does, but he basically has to also ratify the signing before it can get to Sandgaard. Maybe he's acting as some sort of buffer to ensure we don't put forward signings over a certain price that don't add enough resale value etc? 4. When it gets to Sandgaard I would assume the case is put forward on what the player brings, what their resale potential might be, how much we might need to spend to get them and whether they may or may not be able to make the step up.
Alternative The other thing that may occur is you roll up the meetings where Gallen comes back to a 4-way between Adkins, Gallen, Roddy & Sandgaard and they thrash it out whilst chugging Monster's and listening to rap metal.
In my experience, this is how it should work.
1. Owner (TS) sets the budget (transfer fee and wages) 2. Manager (NA) tells head of recruitment (SG) who/what he wants. 3. Head of recruitment draws up a shortlist 4. Manager reviews shortlist and selects those he wants to pursue. 5. Head of recruitment asks current club for permission to talk to player (yes, I know!!). 6. If player is interested the CEO (we don't have one but it could be Roddy in this instance) negotiates with player/club/agent within the confines of the budgets set in 1) above. 7. If agreement (within budget) is reached then player signs). 8. If agreement cannot be reached but manager wants to pursue further then CEO discusses budget with owner. If it can be increased then repeat 6) and 7). 9. If no agreement reached within an acceptable budget then all parties move on.
For us point 6 may be the issue.
Unless things have changed Gallen does the negotiating?
Replace CEO with Head of Recruitment then.
Still begs the question as to whether or not GR is involved in the process.
I'm under the impression that it's GR's responsibility to ensure that our signings fit with our overall strategy.
It seems to me our strategy is to further integrate the academy with the first team - quite why that needs to be done when you look at the history of our academy I'm not sure, but it would certainly be a cheaper (if less successful) way of running the football club.
It's a bad example as we'll probably end up signing him anyway but in my head it might be something like GR saying "Why would we sign Kirk when we have Clayden in our academy" or "Why would we sign a left back when my son is doing a fantastic job there".
Does "ensuring there is a pathway for our youngsters" just mean "we're not going to sign better players that would be ahead of them in the pecking order".
Nah the more I think about it, I'm sure it's the alternative.
(You're likely spot on Bob, is Ged Roddy known for his negotiating skills?)
I don't think negotiating skills is the issue (there would/should be lawyers for the club involved at that stage) - it might be that Roddy has an opinion on the player that differs from NA/SG - that's a big issue. The CEO should be the deal maker, not the selector.
At the risk of playing devils advocate here, is there any actual proof that Roddy is any way interfering with the transfer process?
Obviously people aren't happy with what's happening and understandably so but it doesn't sit right to speculating that this is somehow Roddy's fault when for all we know it's nothing to do with him.
Clare played really well in his one league game for us and I'm already seeing him be written off. Ludicrous
Agreed, thought him and Dobson look a good pairing in the middle and without trying to single out one of our own, i think if we add a bit of quality where Albie is (Personal opinion maybe) we would be sorted in the middle, Gilbey might be a factor if he is due back anytime soon there is probably less need to go out and get someone. Morgan isn't terrible just feel he lacks that cutting edge and composure, i would love him to prove me wrong but for now he should be a back up
Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind.
In retrospect players like Yoni Buyons, JBG, Vetokeke, Teixeira, Bulot & Watt were a damn sight better than Clare & Dobson.
Peak Golfie this.
It is, but it's not wrong for any of those players.
I'm not about to go celebrating Roland's achievements with the club though! The guy was an absolute maniac.
Well we've seen two competitive matches from Dobson and Clare who are 23 and 24 respectively. How the hell can you even judge that the other players are a 'damn sight' better?
Also how successful have those players careers been with the exception of JBG since they left Charlton?
He also fails to mention all the guff we signed under Roland as well.
Also one for you guys, understaand it was Andy Marshall who would tell cawley all the gossip beforehand. seems inline with cawley not knowing/releasing as much since marshall has left.
Jesus, we just need some positive news and clearly none to say. Even Bowyer would say yeah we’ve had one in today or potentially one in by Saturday, working on it, but we get zilch from Adkins.
The longer we leave it, the more I worry that we'll just have to get bodies in for the sake of it. Another window of Matt Smith v1 and David Davis.
My worry is that right at the end of the window we'll end up with our version of Man U under Moyes buying Fellaini for a ridiculous price, because we're desperate to buy someone, indeed anyone
Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind.
In retrospect players like Yoni Buyons, JBG, Vetokeke, Teixeira, Bulot & Watt were a damn sight better than Clare & Dobson.
Probably cos they were signed whilst we were in the Championship on inflated wages.
Do we really have a full day of this nonsense?
Replace those names with Cullen, Bielik, Taylor, Williams.
Point still stands - it’s easy to pile in on Golfie but in this case he has a point.
At present Clare and Dobson are nowhere near that calibre…. On paper someone like Kirk would be closer but we would need another 5-6 of him.
He will have a point at the end of the transfer window, IF we don’t sign players good enough to try and get us out of this division. Comparing Dobson and Clare who have signed for a League One club with a sensible owner to Gudmonnson and Vetekole, who were signed under a madman and his cat weasel CEO in the Championship is ludicrous and does absolutely nothing to get people thinking anything different that he’s just a miserable sod.
I don't recall us ever having a team with fewer goals in it. Maybe you can expect one player to step up but you have some fans thinking/saying, Clare will get 7 or 8, Dobson 5 or 6, Albie 10. The problem is, they have never done so.
Albie is a player I thought could step up. But the initial signs are not promising there either. Who is going to score the goals for us as it stands?
What’s your take @LouisMend on the lack of transfers?
Is it because we’re waiting for prices to drop/clubs to get desperate and deal, as has been mooted, or is there something amiss like TS now not wanting to spend/too many people involved in the sign off of targets?
Said it before that I thought the rebuild would need to take a few windows. Build a real quality first eleven and decent alternatives. Much prefer signing two really good players each window and getting there over three windows. Fill in gaps with loans until the quality is reached.
Nah the more I think about it, I'm sure it's the alternative.
(You're likely spot on Bob, is Ged Roddy known for his negotiating skills?)
I don't think negotiating skills is the issue (there would/should be lawyers for the club involved at that stage) - it might be that Roddy has an opinion on the player that differs from NA/SG - that's a big issue. The CEO should be the deal maker, not the selector.
At the risk of playing devils advocate here, is there any actual proof that Roddy is any way interfering with the transfer process?
Obviously people aren't happy with what's happening and understandably so but it doesn't sit right to speculating that this is somehow Roddy's fault when for all we know it's nothing to do with him.
NA has said its Ged Roddys recruitment team and Steve Gallen negotiates with players agents and clubs
Said it before that I thought the rebuild would need to take a few windows. Build a real quality first eleven and decent alternatives. Much prefer signing two really good players each window and getting there over three windows. Fill in gaps with loans until the quality is reached.
By the time you've built your squad though, some of the better signings would already have been poached
Say DJ has a storming season as we finish 8th. Next summer there'll be interested from Championship clubs, not least the newly promoted ones from L1.
Modern football doesn't allow much time to build sides
Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind.
In retrospect players like Yoni Buyons, JBG, Vetokeke, Teixeira, Bulot & Watt were a damn sight better than Clare & Dobson.
Which of those were signed in league one?
Taylor, Cullen, Bielik, Williams…. Even Jamie Ward and Billy Clarke
They weren't on his list? Point being, he's comparing two signing in one league one window to a series of signing made in the championship.
As for the players you've just listed.
Cullen and Bielik were loans
Taylor was a great signing on a free.
Williams is shit.
I’d still have Williams back like a shot . We are desperate for some creativity in this current midfield.
I don't think he's creative. He's got 6 assists in three seasons. And his goalscoring record doesn't need mentioning. People get more assists and goals from full-back positions.
Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind.
In retrospect players like Yoni Buyons, JBG, Vetokeke, Teixeira, Bulot & Watt were a damn sight better than Clare & Dobson.
Which of those were signed in league one?
Taylor, Cullen, Bielik, Williams…. Even Jamie Ward and Billy Clarke
They weren't on his list? Point being, he's comparing two signing in one league one window to a series of signing made in the championship.
As for the players you've just listed.
Cullen and Bielik were loans
Taylor was a great signing on a free.
Williams is shit.
I’d still have Williams back like a shot . We are desperate for some creativity in this current midfield.
I don't think he's creative. He's got 6 assists in three seasons. And his goalscoring record doesn't need mentioning. People get more assists and goals from full-back positions.
Plus I thought we were done with signing injury prone journey men?
Nah the more I think about it, I'm sure it's the alternative.
(You're likely spot on Bob, is Ged Roddy known for his negotiating skills?)
I don't think negotiating skills is the issue (there would/should be lawyers for the club involved at that stage) - it might be that Roddy has an opinion on the player that differs from NA/SG - that's a big issue. The CEO should be the deal maker, not the selector.
At the risk of playing devils advocate here, is there any actual proof that Roddy is any way interfering with the transfer process?
Obviously people aren't happy with what's happening and understandably so but it doesn't sit right to speculating that this is somehow Roddy's fault when for all we know it's nothing to do with him.
NA has said its Ged Roddys recruitment team and Steve Gallen negotiates with players agents and clubs
Not questioning whether GR is involved - he clearly is. But I am a little bit wary about the mentality that some people seem to think that the lack of business is specifically due to something he's doing or not doing which seems speculative at best.
For so long anyone that dared suggest something is not up was told to zip it and stop being negative.......
Well we still need 6-7 quality players and it just doesn’t seem like it’s gonna happen.
Im not looking forward to post 1st Sept when the quality hasn’t arrived in the numbers we need - because we then need to switch our attention to what’s going wrong behind the scenes and they are never nice discussions on here.
But as loads of us are saying now - Roland / Driesen windows were ten times stronger than this. And that ownership was lambasted for it.
Something really doesn’t seem right here.
The thing is though, none of this is true. Everyone recognises that we need more players and everyone recognises that the gap between our last signing and now is growing increasingly long. I don't think anyone thought Clare would be our last signing before the start of the season, but we've been told a hundred times that most of the deals will be done right up to the deadline, so those who are refusing to panic are in general doing it based on the fact this is our first proper summer window under Sandgaard and deadline day hasn't actually happened yet. Once the window shuts we'll all be able to actually see what's going on and we can properly judge. If we manage to get to the deadline passing and we've brought in a number of useful players then all of these concerns will blow away instantly, if not then there will be discussion.
The thing about Roland is just revisionism as well. The problem with Roland was always that he didn't allow us to bring in enough players to support the occasionally decent ones he did get. I remember feeling really positive at the start of the 2014/15 season. I was still annoyed after the Powell/Yann etc debacle but we brought in some good players and I was hopeful, but the squad wasn't big enough and Peeters was already complaining when the window closed. That then repeated every single window, we'd sell good players for cheap and Roland would demand that more academy products get thrown in to cover the gaps. Every window was the same, a few peaks and false dawns and then always disappointment at the end. No-one who is being honest can say Roland never spent any money or never signed good players, but we were always short on depth and signing players with histories of severe injury and lack of fitness, meaning they always broke down again. Not to mention the fact Roland never had to work under the conditions caused by Covid. Even in what I would say was maybe our most complete window under Roland, the most recent Championship season, we signed Field, Leko, Kayal and (sort of) Hemed on the last day, and then Oztumer and Matthews after that. That's the key difference here; our window isn't over yet. If we sign Kirk this week, and then another, then 4 good loans on deadline day because we waited for the right people to be available then I don't think there will be any serious complaints. It's if we don't that we've got serious problems, and that's when I'll actually start worrying, not before. It's difficult enough being a Charlton fan without being miserable before it's absolutely necessary.
Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind.
In retrospect players like Yoni Buyons, JBG, Vetokeke, Teixeira, Bulot & Watt were a damn sight better than Clare & Dobson.
Which of those were signed in league one?
Taylor, Cullen, Bielik, Williams…. Even Jamie Ward and Billy Clarke
They weren't on his list? Point being, he's comparing two signing in one league one window to a series of signing made in the championship.
As for the players you've just listed.
Cullen and Bielik were loans
Taylor was a great signing on a free.
Williams is shit.
I’d still have Williams back like a shot . We are desperate for some creativity in this current midfield.
I don't think he's creative. He's got 6 assists in three seasons. And his goalscoring record doesn't need mentioning. People get more assists and goals from full-back positions.
All that’s true but he would still get in this current team .That’s a damning critique of the current first team . realistically I wouldn’t want him back either .
We're trying to recruit for a couple of roles in our travel business just now and finding it quite challenging. Seems most people want to continue working from home. I'm starting to wonder if that's true for our footballers too?
Just because Golfie is bigging up Roland... Here's his first three years ins and outs for the first team squad - because I got bored. It seems having loads of players doesn't guarantee success at all!
Care free signings are as dangerous as too few.
(Free= Free or undisclosed)
13/14 - Survived Relegation
From JANUARY ONLY
Players signed From Standard Liege Anil Koc (Free) Reza Ghoochannejhad (Free) Astrit Ajdarevic (L) Yohann Thuram (Free)
From Ujpest Loic Nego (Free)
From outside the Network Davide Petrucci (L) Jonathan Obika (L) Marcus Tudgay (L) Piotr Parzyszek - De Graafschap
Players Out: Ben Alnwick Dale Stephens Yann Kermorgant Danny Hollands (L)
14/15 - 12th Championship
Players signed: From Standard Liege George Tucudean (£720k - but not really) Yoni Buyens (Loan) Frederic Bulot (Loan) Tal Ben Haim (Free) Tony Watt (Free)
From Ujpest Marko Dmitrovic (Free)
From outside the Network Igor Vetokele (£2.7m) Johann Berg Gudmundsson (Free) Andre Kikey (Free) Stephen Henderson (Free) Franck Moussa (Free) Francis Coquelin (Loan) Roger Johnson (Free) Milos Veljkovic (Free) Cristophe LePoint (Free) Oguchi Onyewu (F) Chris Eagles (F)
Players out: Cedric Evina (Free) Dorian Dervite (Free) Ben Hamer (Free) Richard Wood (Free) Jordan Cook (Free) Bradley Pritchard (Free) Andy Hughes (Free) Loic Nego (Loan) Danny Green (Free) Danny Hollands (Free) Diego Poyet (?) Michael Morrison (?)
15/16 - Relegated
Players signed: From Standard Liege Jorge Teixeira £450k (Not really)
From outside the Network Naby Sarr £1.8m Patrick Bauer £1.35m El Hadji Ba £450k Zakarya Bergdich £225k Christian Ceballos (F) Seok Yeung Yun (L) Conor McAleny (L) Roger Johnson (F) Rhys Williams (L) Rod Fanni (L) Simon Makienok (L)? Ahmed Kashi (?) Diego Poyet (L) Yaya Sanogo (L) Ricardo Vaz Te (F)
Players sold: Joe Gomez £4.4m Rhoys Wiggins £900k Simon Church (F) Neil Etheridge (F) Tal Ben Haim (F) Roger Johnson (F) Lawrie Wilson (F) Ricardo Vaz Te (F) Piotr Parzyszek (F) Christoph LePoint (F) - Re-entered the network Loic Nego (F) Andre Bikey (R) Chris Eagles (R) Oguchi Onyewu (R)
1. Adkins suggests the kind of players he needs, gives the requirements of what they MUST have and probably even names some that do the job of such players. 2. Gallen goes out, taps up contacts and uses his relationships to find players that match Adkins requirements - Comes back to Adkins to check suitability 3. When NA & SG are happy I'd hope it was straight to Sandgaard, but I fear this is where Roddy steps in. I don't get what he does, but he basically has to also ratify the signing before it can get to Sandgaard. Maybe he's acting as some sort of buffer to ensure we don't put forward signings over a certain price that don't add enough resale value etc? 4. When it gets to Sandgaard I would assume the case is put forward on what the player brings, what their resale potential might be, how much we might need to spend to get them and whether they may or may not be able to make the step up.
Alternative The other thing that may occur is you roll up the meetings where Gallen comes back to a 4-way between Adkins, Gallen, Roddy & Sandgaard and they thrash it out whilst chugging Monster's and listening to rap metal.
In my experience, this is how it should work.
1. Owner (TS) sets the budget (transfer fee and wages) 2. Manager (NA) tells head of recruitment (SG) who/what he wants. 3. Head of recruitment draws up a shortlist 4. Manager reviews shortlist and selects those he wants to pursue. 5. Head of recruitment asks current club for permission to talk to player (yes, I know!!). 6. If player is interested the CEO (we don't have one but it could be Roddy in this instance) negotiates with player/club/agent within the confines of the budgets set in 1) above. 7. If agreement (within budget) is reached then player signs). 8. If agreement cannot be reached but manager wants to pursue further then CEO discusses budget with owner. If it can be increased then repeat 6) and 7). 9. If no agreement reached within an acceptable budget then all parties move on.
For us point 6 may be the issue.
Chairman gives SG the budget … NA gives SG the list of top targets then most likey a back up list .. SG then starts the long road of talking to agents finding out 1-If there player interested in joining , what’s the situation at his club 2- what salary he in now and what salary and contract they looking for 3- If that’s acceptable make offer to club …
SG would have had the top targets before the season ended and his team would have scouted the players few times spoke to various people about them ie what they like away from the pitch etc etc
Alan Curbishley once said from the moment they identify a target it can take 6/12 months to do your homework on that player and do a deal …
Peterbro chairman said it took 3 months to sign the Exeter player …. clearly social media has not helped with all the rumours and whispers back in the day there was no SKY no internet and transfer happened when they happened that was the first a fan heard about it …
1. Adkins suggests the kind of players he needs, gives the requirements of what they MUST have and probably even names some that do the job of such players. 2. Gallen goes out, taps up contacts and uses his relationships to find players that match Adkins requirements - Comes back to Adkins to check suitability 3. When NA & SG are happy I'd hope it was straight to Sandgaard, but I fear this is where Roddy steps in. I don't get what he does, but he basically has to also ratify the signing before it can get to Sandgaard. Maybe he's acting as some sort of buffer to ensure we don't put forward signings over a certain price that don't add enough resale value etc? 4. When it gets to Sandgaard I would assume the case is put forward on what the player brings, what their resale potential might be, how much we might need to spend to get them and whether they may or may not be able to make the step up.
Alternative The other thing that may occur is you roll up the meetings where Gallen comes back to a 4-way between Adkins, Gallen, Roddy & Sandgaard and they thrash it out whilst chugging Monster's and listening to rap metal.
In my experience, this is how it should work.
1. Owner (TS) sets the budget (transfer fee and wages) 2. Manager (NA) tells head of recruitment (SG) who/what he wants. 3. Head of recruitment draws up a shortlist 4. Manager reviews shortlist and selects those he wants to pursue. 5. Head of recruitment asks current club for permission to talk to player (yes, I know!!). 6. If player is interested the CEO (we don't have one but it could be Roddy in this instance) negotiates with player/club/agent within the confines of the budgets set in 1) above. 7. If agreement (within budget) is reached then player signs). 8. If agreement cannot be reached but manager wants to pursue further then CEO discusses budget with owner. If it can be increased then repeat 6) and 7). 9. If no agreement reached within an acceptable budget then all parties move on.
For us point 6 may be the issue.
Unless things have changed Gallen does the negotiating?
Gallen always done and still is the person who talks to players and agents
Comments
It seems to me our strategy is to further integrate the academy with the first team - quite why that needs to be done when you look at the history of our academy I'm not sure, but it would certainly be a cheaper (if less successful) way of running the football club.
It's a bad example as we'll probably end up signing him anyway but in my head it might be something like GR saying "Why would we sign Kirk when we have Clayden in our academy" or "Why would we sign a left back when my son is doing a fantastic job there".
Does "ensuring there is a pathway for our youngsters" just mean "we're not going to sign better players that would be ahead of them in the pecking order".
Also how successful have those players careers been with the exception of JBG since they left Charlton?
He also fails to mention all the guff we signed under Roland as well.
Point still stands - it’s easy to pile in on Golfie but in this case he has a point.
At present Clare and Dobson are nowhere near that calibre…. On paper someone like Kirk would be closer but we would need another 5-6 of him.
Absolute tosh.
None of them.
Albie is a player I thought could step up. But the initial signs are not promising there either. Who is going to score the goals for us as it stands?
As for the players you've just listed
Cullen and Bielik were loans
Taylor was a great signing on a free.
Williams is shit.
Say DJ has a storming season as we finish 8th. Next summer there'll be interested from Championship clubs, not least the newly promoted ones from L1.
Modern football doesn't allow much time to build sides
Care free signings are as dangerous as too few.
(Free= Free or undisclosed)
13/14 - Survived Relegation
From JANUARY ONLYPlayers signed
From Standard Liege
Anil Koc (Free)
Reza Ghoochannejhad (Free)
Astrit Ajdarevic (L)
Yohann Thuram (Free)
From Ujpest
Loic Nego (Free)
From outside the Network
Davide Petrucci (L)
Jonathan Obika (L)
Marcus Tudgay (L)
Piotr Parzyszek - De Graafschap
Players Out:
Ben Alnwick
Dale Stephens
Yann Kermorgant
Danny Hollands (L)
14/15 - 12th Championship
Players signed:From Standard Liege
George Tucudean (£720k - but not really)
Yoni Buyens (Loan)
Frederic Bulot (Loan)
Tal Ben Haim (Free)
Tony Watt (Free)
From Ujpest
Marko Dmitrovic (Free)
From outside the Network
Igor Vetokele (£2.7m)
Johann Berg Gudmundsson (Free)
Andre Kikey (Free)
Stephen Henderson (Free)
Franck Moussa (Free)
Francis Coquelin (Loan)
Roger Johnson (Free)
Milos Veljkovic (Free)
Cristophe LePoint (Free)
Oguchi Onyewu (F)
Chris Eagles (F)
Players out:
Cedric Evina (Free)
Dorian Dervite (Free)
Ben Hamer (Free)
Richard Wood (Free)
Jordan Cook (Free)
Bradley Pritchard (Free)
Andy Hughes (Free)
Loic Nego (Loan)
Danny Green (Free)
Danny Hollands (Free)
Diego Poyet (?)
Michael Morrison (?)
15/16 - Relegated
Players signed:From Standard Liege
Jorge Teixeira £450k (Not really)
From outside the Network
Naby Sarr £1.8m
Patrick Bauer £1.35m
El Hadji Ba £450k
Zakarya Bergdich £225k
Christian Ceballos (F)
Seok Yeung Yun (L)
Conor McAleny (L)
Roger Johnson (F)
Rhys Williams (L)
Rod Fanni (L)
Simon Makienok (L)?
Ahmed Kashi (?)
Diego Poyet (L)
Yaya Sanogo (L)
Ricardo Vaz Te (F)
Players sold:
Joe Gomez £4.4m
Rhoys Wiggins £900k
Simon Church (F)
Neil Etheridge (F)
Tal Ben Haim (F)
Roger Johnson (F)
Lawrie Wilson (F)
Ricardo Vaz Te (F)
Piotr Parzyszek (F)
Christoph LePoint (F) - Re-entered the network
Loic Nego (F)
Andre Bikey (R)
Chris Eagles (R)
Oguchi Onyewu (R)
SG would have had the top targets before the season ended and his team would have scouted the players few times spoke to various people about them ie what they like away from the pitch etc etc
Alan Curbishley once said from the moment they identify a target it can take 6/12 months to do your homework on that player and do a deal …
Peterbro chairman said it took 3 months to sign the Exeter player …. clearly social media has not helped with all the rumours and whispers back in the day there was no SKY no internet and transfer happened when they happened that was the first a fan heard about it …