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Rumours Rumours - Summer 2021 edition (Deadline Day from p814)

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  • edited August 2021
    Chunes said:
    Rothko said:
    Quiet enjoying the revisionism of the RD era
    Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind. 
    In retrospect players like Yoni Buyons, JBG, Vetokeke, Teixeira, Bulot & Watt were a damn sight better than Clare & Dobson. 
    Which of those were signed in league one?
    Taylor, Cullen, Bielik, Williams…. Even Jamie Ward and Billy Clarke 
    They weren't on his list? Point being, he's comparing two signings in a league one window to a series of signings made in the championship.

    As for the players you've just listed

    Cullen and Bielik were loans

    Taylor was a great signing on a free.

    Williams is shit.
  • Rothko said:
    Quiet enjoying the revisionism of the RD era
    Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind. 
    In retrospect players like Yoni Buyons, JBG, Vetokeke, Teixeira, Bulot & Watt were a damn sight better than Clare & Dobson. 
    You've named the 6 good signings under the rat, there's at least 4 times as many woeful players and none of them were signed in League 1....
  • edited August 2021
    What’s your take @LouisMend on the lack of transfers? 
    Is it because we’re waiting for prices to drop/clubs to get desperate and deal, as has been mooted, or is there something amiss like TS now not wanting to spend/too many people involved in the sign off of targets? 
  • Said it before that I thought the rebuild would need to take a few windows. Build a real quality first eleven and decent alternatives. Much prefer signing two really good players each window and getting there over three windows. Fill in gaps with loans until the quality is reached. 
  • thenewbie said:
    bobmunro said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    Nah the more I think about it, I'm sure it's the alternative. 

    (You're likely spot on Bob, is Ged Roddy known for his negotiating skills?)
    I don't think negotiating skills is the issue (there would/should be lawyers for the club involved at that stage) - it might be that Roddy has an opinion on the player that differs from NA/SG - that's a big issue. The CEO should be the deal maker, not the selector.
    At the risk of playing devils advocate here, is there any actual proof that Roddy is any way interfering with the transfer process?

    Obviously people aren't happy with what's happening and understandably so but it doesn't sit right to speculating that this is somehow Roddy's fault when for all we know it's nothing to do with him.
    NA has said its Ged Roddys recruitment team and Steve Gallen negotiates with players agents and clubs
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  • Chunes said:
    Chunes said:
    Chunes said:
    Rothko said:
    Quiet enjoying the revisionism of the RD era
    Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind. 
    In retrospect players like Yoni Buyons, JBG, Vetokeke, Teixeira, Bulot & Watt were a damn sight better than Clare & Dobson. 
    Which of those were signed in league one?
    Taylor, Cullen, Bielik, Williams…. Even Jamie Ward and Billy Clarke 
    They weren't on his list? Point being, he's comparing two signing in one league one window to a series of signing made in the championship.

    As for the players you've just listed.

    Cullen and Bielik were loans

    Taylor was a great signing on a free.

    Williams is shit.
    I’d still have Williams back like a shot . We are desperate for some creativity in this current  midfield. 
    I don't think he's creative. He's got 6 assists in three seasons. And his goalscoring record doesn't need mentioning. People get more assists and goals from full-back positions.
    Plus I thought we were done with signing injury prone journey men?
  • thenewbie said:
    bobmunro said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    Nah the more I think about it, I'm sure it's the alternative. 

    (You're likely spot on Bob, is Ged Roddy known for his negotiating skills?)
    I don't think negotiating skills is the issue (there would/should be lawyers for the club involved at that stage) - it might be that Roddy has an opinion on the player that differs from NA/SG - that's a big issue. The CEO should be the deal maker, not the selector.
    At the risk of playing devils advocate here, is there any actual proof that Roddy is any way interfering with the transfer process?

    Obviously people aren't happy with what's happening and understandably so but it doesn't sit right to speculating that this is somehow Roddy's fault when for all we know it's nothing to do with him.
    NA has said its Ged Roddys recruitment team and Steve Gallen negotiates with players agents and clubs
    Not questioning whether GR is involved - he clearly is. But I am a little bit wary about the mentality that some people seem to think that the lack of business is specifically due to something he's doing or not doing which seems speculative at best.
  • edited August 2021
    Chunes said:
    Chunes said:
    Chunes said:
    Rothko said:
    Quiet enjoying the revisionism of the RD era
    Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind. 
    In retrospect players like Yoni Buyons, JBG, Vetokeke, Teixeira, Bulot & Watt were a damn sight better than Clare & Dobson. 
    Which of those were signed in league one?
    Taylor, Cullen, Bielik, Williams…. Even Jamie Ward and Billy Clarke 
    They weren't on his list? Point being, he's comparing two signing in one league one window to a series of signing made in the championship.

    As for the players you've just listed.

    Cullen and Bielik were loans

    Taylor was a great signing on a free.

    Williams is shit.
    I’d still have Williams back like a shot . We are desperate for some creativity in this current  midfield. 
    I don't think he's creative. He's got 6 assists in three seasons. And his goalscoring record doesn't need mentioning. People get more assists and goals from full-back positions.
    All that’s true but he would still get in this current team .That’s a damning critique of the current first team . realistically I wouldn’t want him back either .  
  • Just because Golfie is bigging up Roland... Here's his first three years ins and outs for the first team squad - because I got bored. It seems having loads of players doesn't guarantee success at all! 

    Care free signings are as dangerous as too few. 
     
    (Free= Free or undisclosed)

    13/14 - Survived Relegation

    From JANUARY ONLY

    Players signed
    From Standard Liege
    Anil Koc (Free)
    Reza Ghoochannejhad (Free)
    Astrit Ajdarevic (L)
    Yohann Thuram (Free)

    From Ujpest 
    Loic Nego (Free)

    From outside the Network
    Davide Petrucci (L)
    Jonathan Obika (L)
    Marcus Tudgay (L)
    Piotr Parzyszek - De Graafschap

    Players Out:
    Ben Alnwick 
    Dale Stephens
    Yann Kermorgant
    Danny Hollands (L)

    14/15 - 12th Championship

    Players signed:
    From Standard Liege
    George Tucudean (£720k - but not really)
    Yoni Buyens (Loan)
    Frederic Bulot (Loan)
    Tal Ben Haim (Free) 
    Tony Watt (Free)

    From Ujpest 
    Marko Dmitrovic (Free)

    From outside the Network
    Igor Vetokele (£2.7m)
    Johann Berg Gudmundsson (Free)
    Andre Kikey (Free)
    Stephen Henderson (Free) 
    Franck Moussa (Free)
    Francis Coquelin (Loan)
    Roger Johnson (Free)
    Milos Veljkovic (Free) 
    Cristophe LePoint (Free)
    Oguchi Onyewu (F) 
    Chris Eagles (F)



    Players out:
    Cedric Evina (Free)
    Dorian Dervite (Free)
    Ben Hamer (Free)
    Richard Wood (Free)
    Jordan Cook (Free)
    Bradley Pritchard (Free)
    Andy Hughes (Free)
    Loic Nego (Loan)
    Danny Green (Free)
    Danny Hollands (Free)
    Diego Poyet (?)
    Michael Morrison (?)

    15/16 - Relegated 

    Players signed:
    From Standard Liege
    Jorge Teixeira £450k (Not really)

    From outside the Network
    Naby Sarr £1.8m
    Patrick Bauer £1.35m
    El Hadji Ba £450k
    Zakarya Bergdich £225k
    Christian Ceballos (F)
    Seok Yeung Yun (L)
    Conor McAleny (L)
    Roger Johnson (F)
    Rhys Williams (L)
    Rod Fanni  (L)
    Simon Makienok (L)?
    Ahmed Kashi (?)
    Diego Poyet (L)
    Yaya Sanogo (L)
    Ricardo Vaz Te (F)

    Players sold:
    Joe Gomez £4.4m
    Rhoys Wiggins £900k
    Simon Church (F)
    Neil Etheridge (F)
    Tal Ben Haim (F)
    Roger Johnson (F)
    Lawrie Wilson (F)
    Ricardo Vaz Te (F)
    Piotr Parzyszek (F)
    Christoph LePoint (F) - Re-entered the network
    Loic Nego (F)
    Andre Bikey (R)
    Chris Eagles (R)
    Oguchi Onyewu (R)

  • bobmunro said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    Here's how ( I think) Transfers may be working. 

    1.
    Adkins suggests the kind of players he needs, gives the requirements of what they MUST have and probably even names some that do the job of such players. 
    2.
    Gallen goes out, taps up contacts and uses his relationships to find players that match Adkins requirements - Comes back to Adkins to check suitability
    3.
    When NA & SG are happy I'd hope it was straight to Sandgaard, but I fear this is where Roddy steps in. I don't get what he does, but he basically has to also ratify the signing before it can get to Sandgaard. Maybe he's acting as some sort of buffer to ensure we don't put forward signings over a certain price that don't add enough resale value etc?
    4.
    When it gets to Sandgaard I would assume the case is put forward on what the player brings, what their resale potential might be, how much we might need to spend to get them and whether they may or may not be able to make the step up. 

    Alternative
    The other thing that may occur is you roll up the meetings where Gallen comes back to a 4-way between Adkins, Gallen, Roddy & Sandgaard and they thrash it out whilst chugging Monster's and listening to rap metal. 
    In my experience, this is how it should work.

    1. Owner (TS) sets the budget (transfer fee and wages)
    2. Manager (NA) tells head of recruitment (SG) who/what he wants.
    3. Head of recruitment draws up a shortlist
    4. Manager reviews shortlist and selects those he wants to pursue.
    5. Head of recruitment asks current club for permission to talk to player (yes, I know!!).
    6. If player is interested the CEO (we don't have one but it could be Roddy in this instance) negotiates with player/club/agent within the confines of the budgets set in 1) above.
    7. If agreement (within budget) is reached then player signs).
    8. If agreement cannot be reached but manager wants to pursue further then CEO discusses budget with owner. If it can be increased then repeat 6) and 7).
    9. If no agreement reached within an acceptable budget then all parties move on.   

    For us point 6 may be the issue.
    Chairman gives SG the budget … NA gives SG the list of top targets then most likey a back up list .. SG then starts the long road of talking to agents finding out 1-If there player interested in joining , what’s the situation at his club 2- what salary he in now and what salary and contract they looking for 3- If that’s acceptable make offer to club … 

    SG would have had the top targets before the season ended and his team would have scouted the players few times spoke to various people about them ie what they like away from the pitch etc etc 

    Alan Curbishley once said from the moment they identify a target it can take 6/12 months to do your homework on that player and do a deal … 

    Peterbro chairman said it took 3 months to sign the Exeter player …. clearly social media has not helped with all the rumours and whispers back in the day there was no SKY no internet and transfer happened when they happened that was the first a fan heard about it … 
  • Scoham said:
    bobmunro said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    Here's how ( I think) Transfers may be working. 

    1.
    Adkins suggests the kind of players he needs, gives the requirements of what they MUST have and probably even names some that do the job of such players. 
    2.
    Gallen goes out, taps up contacts and uses his relationships to find players that match Adkins requirements - Comes back to Adkins to check suitability
    3.
    When NA & SG are happy I'd hope it was straight to Sandgaard, but I fear this is where Roddy steps in. I don't get what he does, but he basically has to also ratify the signing before it can get to Sandgaard. Maybe he's acting as some sort of buffer to ensure we don't put forward signings over a certain price that don't add enough resale value etc?
    4.
    When it gets to Sandgaard I would assume the case is put forward on what the player brings, what their resale potential might be, how much we might need to spend to get them and whether they may or may not be able to make the step up. 

    Alternative
    The other thing that may occur is you roll up the meetings where Gallen comes back to a 4-way between Adkins, Gallen, Roddy & Sandgaard and they thrash it out whilst chugging Monster's and listening to rap metal. 
    In my experience, this is how it should work.

    1. Owner (TS) sets the budget (transfer fee and wages)
    2. Manager (NA) tells head of recruitment (SG) who/what he wants.
    3. Head of recruitment draws up a shortlist
    4. Manager reviews shortlist and selects those he wants to pursue.
    5. Head of recruitment asks current club for permission to talk to player (yes, I know!!).
    6. If player is interested the CEO (we don't have one but it could be Roddy in this instance) negotiates with player/club/agent within the confines of the budgets set in 1) above.
    7. If agreement (within budget) is reached then player signs).
    8. If agreement cannot be reached but manager wants to pursue further then CEO discusses budget with owner. If it can be increased then repeat 6) and 7).
    9. If no agreement reached within an acceptable budget then all parties move on.   

    For us point 6 may be the issue.
    Unless things have changed Gallen does the negotiating?
    Gallen always done and still is the person who talks to players and agents 
  • edited August 2021
    Rothko said:
    Chunes said:
    Chunes said:
    Rothko said:
    Quiet enjoying the revisionism of the RD era
    Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind. 
    In retrospect players like Yoni Buyons, JBG, Vetokeke, Teixeira, Bulot & Watt were a damn sight better than Clare & Dobson. 
    Which of those were signed in league one?
    Taylor, Cullen, Bielik, Williams…. Even Jamie Ward and Billy Clarke 
    They weren't on his list? Point being, he's comparing two signing in one league one window to a series of signing made in the championship.

    As for the players you've just listed

    Cullen and Bielik were loans

    Taylor was a great signing on a free.

    Williams is shit.

    Both Cullen and Bielik were both signed very late in the window, Cullen on August 30th. 
    We had an incredible midfield that year. Cullen, Bielik and Aribo in League One was obscene. 
  • SG is Director of Football and this interview puts to bed these ridiculous notions about he not in charge of recruitment 

    Charlton Director of Football Steve Gallen has provided an update on what has been a relentless summer to date, with four new signings as well as four contract extensions.

    Tenacious midfielder George Dobson became the Addicks’ third acquisition of the summer, and Gallen was pleased to secure the services of the promising 23-year-old, who he admits he has tracked for some time, as the club seeks to bring younger players to The Valley.

    Gallen said: “Of course I’m pleased about it. We’re trying to bring some young players, but not just young players. We’re trying to bring in players to help us get towards the top of the table, that’s where everybody wants to be - the manager, myself, the fans, everybody at the club. We want to be challenging at the top. 

    “We do have to be careful about the players that we pick because there’s a lot of players available. There’s a lot of players out there that want massive salaries. They think that Charlton are just going to splash a load of money and we’re not going to do that; we’re going to take our time and we’re going to get it right. I’ve always tried to do that. I try and spend our money just like it’s my own and we have to be careful. 

    “If we blow all of our money right at the start on two or three players then we might not have enough for the two or three we need towards the end of the window, so we’re somewhere around the middle of the window. It’s tiring behind the scenes because it’s non-stop work, it’s every day. Every single day. We’ve got George Dobson in, really pleased. He’s a good lad and somebody I’ve followed for a few years now, and so it’s nice to get him.”

    Jake Forster-Caskey and Adam Matthews have recently followed Jason Pearce and Ben Watson in penning new terms to extend their stays in SE7.

    “You have to judge every deal on its merit,” explained Gallen. “Players that have been with us for a while... Chuks Aneke two years, Ben Amos on and off for three years in different spells... didn’t stay with us. We tried to sign them but it didn’t work out and I wish them well. Jake’s situation is a bit different, player of the year, that was great, and then got injured right towards the end. Very important that we show everybody that we look after our players. It wasn’t a difficult deal to do in all honesty. It was something that was just sat on the table for quite a while until Jake grabbed me at the training ground and we just had a chat, and then moved it forward really, really quick. 

    “Jake’s going to be out for a while, we know that. We’ve got a duty of care to look after him and bring him back to fitness, but when we do we know that we’ve got a very good midfield player. And when he does come back, whether that’s December, January, February… I don’t know exactly, we all don’t know exactly… it will actually feel like a new signing for us. Experienced football player, good awareness, good touch. He’s a midfielder that’s good at everything. He’s a good all-rounder rather than just being a box-to-box or a holding player, or just a passer. He’s actually decent at all things. The way he picks up second balls in particular, you can see he’s got a bit more experience than a lot of the other players at this level.

    “I’m pleased to get Adam. This one behind the scenes has been a bit on, off, on, off, but then it was last year too. At the end of the day I have to try and get the best value always for the chairman, which is what I speak to Thomas [Sandgaard] about, and the best value for the football club. On the flipside, on the balance of that and more importantly of course, we’ve got to the best team. We’ve got to give Nigel Adkins the tools to try and finish whatever - top two, top six. But certainly that’s where we need to be as a football club, and so the more good players you can get the better of course. Signing Adam is like a bit of relief it feels, for me, and just a good signing and another one I think: ‘Right, done. Let’s move on to the next one’, because we have a bit to do. And I’ve mentioned this before, I don’t want to be signing 10, 12 players every summer. I want to be signing two or three and hopefully that’s where we’ll be next summer fingers crossed.”

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  • There's some names I'd forgotten on that Roland list. Did Ceballos do anything other than that awful corner at Derby? 
  • Rothko said:
    Quiet enjoying the revisionism of the RD era
    Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind. 
    In retrospect players like Yoni Buyons, JBG, Vetokeke, Teixeira, Bulot & Watt were a damn sight better than Clare & Dobson. 
    Agreed....all Championship standard players (and Diarra, who was probably better than that). 
  • Roland gave us a grand pre-Brexit farewell tour of wacky European ballers and misfits and for that I shall remain a little grateful
  • PWADDICK said:
    Didn't realise Kean Bryan is without club. Good player. 

    Yuri Ribeiro was another half decent player - Not outstanding. 

    Is Ibe still hanging on for a Championship move?

    Barrie McKay is another with potential if we still can't get left wing sorted. 
  • Rothko said:
    Quiet enjoying the revisionism of the RD era
    Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind. 
    In retrospect players like Yoni Buyons, JBG, Vetokeke, Teixeira, Bulot & Watt were a damn sight better than Clare & Dobson. 
    Okay so in the interest of balance.  

    Now give us a list of key players that Roland sold off for nothing/lower than market value Vs what TS has sold??
  • We’re 14/1 to go down. Terrible odds, but alarming i had to check
  • Simonsen said:
    Rothko said:
    Quiet enjoying the revisionism of the RD era
    Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind. 
    In retrospect players like Yoni Buyons, JBG, Vetokeke, Teixeira, Bulot & Watt were a damn sight better than Clare & Dobson. 
    Agreed....all Championship standard players (and Diarra, who was probably better than that). 
    All championship standard players that were signed when we were in the Championship. 
This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!