I'm in the minority here in not really caring about this season I think. We're coming off the back of a relegation season in the midst of a pandemic, as well as the club having to be saved in the last minute meaning we couldn't play around the salary cap. Bowyer has made some strange decisions and the football we have been playing at times is boring, but unless we get relegated, Bowyer has to be given the summer and following January window.
This mentality it's absolutely fucking bonkers. Genuinely think some fans love Bowyer more than they love Charlton.
It is absolutely bizarre. Like when we pass it across the back four, to the midfield then back again, NO urgency to get anywhere, or ambition.
This is the most frustrating aspect of our game play. We play tippy tappy balls around the back four, up to midfield, around the halfway line, an opposing player fronts them and it's two passes and back with Amos. Other teams seem to be able to take two passes and they are invading our box at pace. This playing out from the back with Amos rolling the ball sideways is shite. What happened to the Phillips type hurled balls out to the halfway line with a winger running at people. Is it really just that our players are that shit that they can't run with the ball (any of them) so they try to pass it, but can't even achieve that. The amount of times Pompey blocked a stray pass tonight was simply not good enough. They are good, but not that good. It reminded me of the game up at Huddersfield when we were about level on points and they looked like Brazil and we looked like Barnet. This team is only going one way, again, this season and that is lower week on week. I'm not saying down, that's unthinkable, but there's no way this team in this form with these tactics can finish top half. I'm predicting a bottom half finish. Now that's the first time I've even thought of such a thing. I want promotion the same as every fan and our owner, but I can't believe it, based on the last THREE MONTHS.
I was bemoaning this to my brother at 0-0. if you look at our passes, we can't make four without a shit one or poor control from the receiver. How do you create enough when opponents get bodies behind the ball and press you? Also, when these passes that get you nowhere break down, they often set our opponents up. Defend with bodies behind the ball, work hard and break quickly with purpose and you have a great chance of beating us.
Now if we had more confidence, it might be a decent tactic. But the evidence is there to see and a good manager counters it before it becomes a theme. You can't keep hitting yourself on the head with a hammer in the hope that you will miss! If you try to address it and it doesn't work, well at least you have tried to address it. But I have heard Bowyer praising the amount of chances we have made lately when I thought he was wildly exagerating!
When is enough enough ? We have now won 4 games in our last 17.
Is it when we win 5 in 20....?
Or when we win 6 in 23 ?
Week in & week out I read that its a blip, we won 6 on the trot, wait for the "big 2" to come back.....blah blah blah.
Will you now accept that he has taken us as far as he can.
I asked the question on the Bowyer Out thread but unfortunately no one has provided an answer
Should Curbs and Gritt have been sacked in 92/93 when we went on a similar run where we got 14-points from 17-games whereas we've gone 18-points from 17-games at the present...? - There is absolutely zero patience amongst Football fans anymore
For me its not a case he cant be at fault for anything, even I've been critical in recent weeks
But for me he gets a period into next season depending on results, gets a proper summer to work in pre-season @ Sparrows Lane and on a Training Camp to actually build a squad that is built on unity. This team has been rushed, its been put together in a panicked mess, its like sticking up a wall without any foundations and hoping it can do the job its there for.
The teams around us, how many of them have had to build virtually from scratch AGAIN this season... Instead I imagine they've put together a team of players that has been improved over the seasons to the point its strong enough to mount a serious promotion challenge
Regardless of who the Manager is next season, this summer HAS to be the last time that happens
We talk about recovering from Roland's era, we talk about the damage ESI have done, its going to take time to recover as a Football club.
But we wont get anywhere as a team without a stable team that is constantly being replaced and changed every season
But you've just nailed it in your last sentence though.......
A STABLE TEAM.
Every week we see changes. We won last week. LAST WEEK. 7 days ago. There is no way players should be rested when they've had a week to recover, even when they have to play this coming Saturday. We then don't play for another week.
I would have sympathy for Bowyer if he played a settled team & the team were then making mistakes. But he persists with playing someone, resting them, & then putting them back in. Also playing players out of position. Who was at fault for the first goal tonight. Gunter. A right back playing in centre of defence. I rest my case.
I don’t understand our defensive frailties. Individually our defenders play ok in the main. Tonight for instance, you couldn’t point the finger at any of the back 4 and say he had a shocker. Yet as a unit we look like conceding every time the ball comes near our goal. Crosses put us in panic (whereas when we attack, our crosses usually hit the first defender or fly aimlessly over everyone.) we allow too much space particularly behind our full backs. I’m afraid this all points to the coaching and that falls on LB. hate to say it as he has earned a long list of brownie points but Lee is burning through them at some rate
I think I do. You put Pratley in central defence and he goes for everything which exposes him. Not his fault, he is not a centre half. You put Gunter in there and he is vulnerable in the air and can drift out of position and he isn't a centre half either. Deji is looking like a centre half but he needs to play next to a leader. He can't lead Gunter or Pratley through a game. Pearce could, but has lost the little pace he has which has made him a liability.
So these become glaring weaknesses, whoever plays, that actually undermine the confidence of the team. When you are trying to get back on track you sort out your spine. The centre backs are crucial in terms of conceding.
I recall a stat that Matt Smith, yes the little boy we've loaned from Arsenal, played 90 minutes in all 24 games for Swindon before coming to us. He comes to Charlton and 'no shit Sherlock', he's a late second half sub. How many of our outfield players have played every minute of every game? Can they actually play every week, or is it just that Bowyer will tinker regardless of how they play? I'd rather we play a settled side that's losing than change it every game and have no idea what will work and what won't.
PWR because it's too depressing. Said it before but stop bringing in forwards when defence is clearly the problem. Gunter is not a centre back and Oshilaja is not a footballer. The defence is four individuals and not one unit. We could not afford to wait for the return of Inniss and Famewo but now it's too late. Too much tinkering with the line up and the formation. I hate to say it but I think that Bowyer has lost the plot. Why he thinks that the constant mass changes before and during the games is helpful is beyond me. Most successful teams have consistency of selection. Apparently we have one of the best, if not the best, squad in the division. We have loads of individuals but we don't have a team and we don't have a manager that is getting the best out of any player.
If we beat Rochdale it will be tight and defensive. It isn't the blueprint for going on a run. That is creating quite a few more chances than you concede, however you achieve that.
Pitch looks great. So glad we got the game in at short notice, rather than hold off until our only 2 centre backs are fit and the new signings are integrated in to the squad.
Who was it on the edge of the box who pulled out of the tackle as they scored their third goal ?
Maatsen was on the shoulder of the guy on the right edge of the box. I thought he might have been able to step in to block, but maybe he was wrong sided and the ball was flashed in making a mockery of our defence AGAIN. Us and Portsmouth are headed in different directions.
Yup. I really tried to be positive off the back of yesterday and draw a line under the season so far, on the basis that we’ve had a decent window (I think), and we were quite pragmatic about moving the likes of Bogle and Maddison on (I will say the latter has talent, it’s just whether or not we would ever see it on a consistent basis). I have been quite critical of the team so far this season and I thought that maybe I was being overly harsh when I read threads such as making the top 6, and the general division among our fan base as to whether or not it’s time for Bowyer to go etc etc.
All day I’ve been putting myself back in a positive frame of mind, but I should’ve known it’s not going to change overnight. The form has been terrible. It’s not to say it can’t change, but games are running out now (20 left), and I’m just not seeing anything to make believe it can change.
Take tonight. As others have said, Millar has been our most direct attacking player as of late, and we had a winning team against MK last week. Millar is dropped and JFC is playing on the right hand side of diamond, with Purrington on the bench. There’s no consistency. I like Maatsen, but I felt the defence as a unit looked so much better with Purrington last week. We keep conceding soft goals!!!! Like all the last minute injury time goals last season, this is obviously a massive problem. I know it’s not good management to single out players, but why is Bowyer happy to call out Maddison and Williams and Morgan etc for ducking tackles, but not Matthews last week or Watson this week?
It’s all just going round in circles at the minute and it will be the same Saturday, because we’re likely to see another 4 or 5 changes. It will be Aneke & Stockley up top or Smith and Gilbey in midfield. I know they always talk about having 2 players for every position, but you need to get at least 1 good one first. At the moment it’s a little bit like start whoever, because they’re all as mediocre and uninspiring as one another.
As per other posts, only Stockley came out of tonight for me with any credit.
I think it’s all about the clear out ahead of next season now, there’s so many players I think have reached as far as they can go
If we beat Rochdale it will be tight and defensive. It isn't the blueprint for going on a run. That is creating quite a few more chances than you concede, however you achieve that.
When is enough enough ? We have now won 4 games in our last 17.
Is it when we win 5 in 20....?
Or when we win 6 in 23 ?
Week in & week out I read that its a blip, we won 6 on the trot, wait for the "big 2" to come back.....blah blah blah.
Will you now accept that he has taken us as far as he can.
I asked the question on the Bowyer Out thread but unfortunately no one has provided an answer
Should Curbs and Gritt have been sacked in 92/93 when we went on a similar run where we got 14-points from 17-games whereas we've gone 18-points from 17-games at the present...
onna anwer this wit anothr qestion: wht leagu were we in ten?
FYI Leuth, Pratley’s started his man marking job on you
How is Bowyer supposed to legislate for this? Gunter has nearly 100 caps at international level but can’t be trusted with a 10 yard pass under absolutely no pressure. Bowyer not beyond criticism at all, but what is a manager supposed to do about this? It’s a pass my 5 year old daughter could make and our performances have been riddled with these kinds of errors. Just not good enough from too many players.
I think we have decent enough players for the level. What is needed is identifying how we can get the most out of them. It is unfair to pick on Maatson as he wasn't to blame for tonight, but when you have Gunter at centre half (who is far from dominant in the air) maybe Purrington who is much better in that respect than Maatson helps with set pieces. Sometimes you have to try to cover a weakness off as far as possible.
Can't defend tonight's performance as it was rank but we are still within sight of the play off's and have new players to bring into the team as well as big names coming back from injury and I'm confident we can kick on. Granted we are not only losing matches but playing poorly as well which is not a good combination, however it's not that long ago we were keeping clean sheets for fun which shows there is a good defensive unit in there somewhere and we must have been doing something right on the training ground.
I really hope we don't become a club that just jumps on the managerial merry go round that most other teams seem to get caught up in, I love the fact LB and Jacko actually have an affinity with the club and I can only speak for myself but it made our recent successes a lot more sweeter knowing there was a coaching team at the club who really knew and understood what the club was about. And in the ill fated ESI era having LB and Jacko still at the helm at least gave me something to hang on too and I'll be forever grateful they stuck around when I'm sure they could have either thrown the towel in or found another club and I don't think anyone could or would have blamed them for that at all.
LB said in the post match interview that the aim has to be play offs minimum, and he's right. After everything he's done for the club I think he deserves the opportunity to see if he can get us there minimum. If he doesn't then I'm sure he'll be the first to admit it's not been a good season and he certainly shouldn't be immune to criticism if we don't make it, but there's still a lot to play for until the end of the season.
There's no guarantee a new manager comes in and does any better and there aren't a lot of managerial names (realistic) that stand out to me as great options. I see Paul Cook being banded out about however its worth mentioning he had a dreadful time at Wigan for months, fans were desperate for him to be sacked however he got a bit of time and ended up going on a fantastic run that almost kept Wigan up. Hopefully we can show the same commitment to our existing Manager.
I think you are as deluded as our manager. Play-offs ??? Have you looked at the league table. Once every team has played the same amount of games we will likely to be 10th.
Accrington have 4 games in hand on us & just scored 6 past a hapless Rovers team that we scrapped a 1-0 win against. Crewe, who were 2 divisions below us last season are only below us on goal difference.
I think it's timesome of our fans wake up & smell the coffee. Even once we get Famewo & Innis back (and there is no saying that they wont break down or get injured again) our team is so shell shocked & disjointed we'll be lucky to string 3 wins together before our master tactician of a manger decides to drop the previous MOTM & put a left back in his place.
But you all go on believing that just because Bowyer played for us & has shows passion then we must stick by him no matter what. In the meantime I'll just call it as I see it (6 out of 7 correct result predictions since the new year) and wait for the rest of you to catch up.......because we ain't going anywhere.
I'm in the minority here in not really caring about this season I think. We're coming off the back of a relegation season in the midst of a pandemic, as well as the club having to be saved in the last minute meaning we couldn't play around the salary cap. Bowyer has made some strange decisions and the football we have been playing at times is boring, but unless we get relegated, Bowyer has to be given the summer and following January window.
I'd give him 15 games of next season before reviewing. My early prediction for a new manager. Sandgaard will bring in either an unknown Dane or an American, then watch the fireworks!
If you do that you do know that you have blown that season too.
I wouldn't even give Bowyer the last 15 games of THIS season.
Can't defend tonight's performance as it was rank but we are still within sight of the play off's and have new players to bring into the team as well as big names coming back from injury and I'm confident we can kick on. Granted we are not only losing matches but playing poorly as well which is not a good combination, however it's not that long ago we were keeping clean sheets for fun which shows there is a good defensive unit in there somewhere and we must have been doing something right on the training ground.
I really hope we don't become a club that just jumps on the managerial merry go round that most other teams seem to get caught up in, I love the fact LB and Jacko actually have an affinity with the club and I can only speak for myself but it made our recent successes a lot more sweeter knowing there was a coaching team at the club who really knew and understood what the club was about. And in the ill fated ESI era having LB and Jacko still at the helm at least gave me something to hang on too and I'll be forever grateful they stuck around when I'm sure they could have either thrown the towel in or found another club and I don't think anyone could or would have blamed them for that at all.
LB said in the post match interview that the aim has to be play offs minimum, and he's right. After everything he's done for the club I think he deserves the opportunity to see if he can get us there minimum. If he doesn't then I'm sure he'll be the first to admit it's not been a good season and he certainly shouldn't be immune to criticism if we don't make it, but there's still a lot to play for until the end of the season.
There's no guarantee a new manager comes in and does any better and there aren't a lot of managerial names (realistic) that stand out to me as great options. I see Paul Cook being banded out about however its worth mentioning he had a dreadful time at Wigan for months, fans were desperate for him to be sacked however he got a bit of time and ended up going on a fantastic run that almost kept Wigan up. Hopefully we can show the same commitment to our existing Manager.
I think you are as deluded as our manager. Play-offs ??? Have you looked at the league table. Once every team has played the same amount of games we will likely to be 10th.
Accrington have 4 games in hand on us & just scored 6 past a hapless Rovers team that we scrapped a 1-0 win against. Crewe, who were 2 divisions below us last season are only below us on goal difference.
I think it's timesome of our fans wake up & smell the coffee. Even once we get Famewo & Innis back (and there is no saying that they wont break down or get injured again) our team is so shell shocked & disjointed we'll be lucky to string 3 wins together before our master tactician of a manger decides to drop the previous MOTM & put a left back in his place.
But you all go on believing that just because Bowyer played for us & has shows passion then we must stick by him no matter what. In the meantime I'll just call it as I see it (6 out of 7 correct result predictions since the new year) and wait for the rest of you to catch up.......because we ain't going anywhere.
Shocked at some people saying its going to take time, lets just see how we're doing a little bit into next season, we're lucky to have a club etc - blah blah blah. Is this season a write-off then? With our squad to be languishing outside the play offs where other teams have loads of games in hand on us is disgraceful. Squad needs a massive overhaul, and I have no faith in Bowyer being the man to do that. You can't tell me he is getting the best out of his players this season?
Looks to me like Bowyer has really got himself tied up in knots and there have just been way too many team and personnel changes - we look nothing like a team at all.
You really can't play a diamond midfield with the personnel we had out there tonight, it's never going to work.
Stockley is an old fashioned number 9, he needs service from wide areas and we never gave him that at all, if you play a narrow midfield you need at least one channel runner to get in behind and that's not his game.
The same goes for Schwartz too, he is not a Grant type running striker, he needs service from wide areas to make space in the middle and again we never gave that too him - how many times did we get midfield runners in behind?
The midfield was all over the place, nobody really seemed to know the structure and with a left footer in JFC on the right of the diamond and a right footer in Shinnie on the left we were just so narrow and the full backs didn't offer any width at all.
Defensively we were shocking. Matthews gave away the first and third goals with sloppy passes and Maatsen the second with a crazy foul in a dangerous area. Gunter looks like a right back playing centre half and Oshi tries his heart out but always has a mistake in him and the distribution of Amos is a major worry even when under no pressure.
To my mind Lee has to pick his best XI and stick with it we have no cohesion or combinations at all, we just look like we are making it up as we go along.
If Chuks can't play every game for the 90 then we need to stop pissing about and just bring him off the bench and go with the two that started tonight but with the proper set-up around them - we HAVE to stop the constant shuffling of the deck with personnel and formations.
For Saturday I really think we need to go back to basics with a 4-4-2 and play to our strengths.
Amos
Gunter - Oshilaja - Famewo - Maatsen
Jaiyesimi - Shinnie - JFC - Millar
Schwartz - Stockley
We need the two wide players getting up to support the front two and creating overloads that create chances for Schwartz - unless we get players around him then he is not going to score goals - you can take that to the bank.
All is not lost yet and the return of Famewo and Inniss is crucial because unless we tighten the back four then we are going nowhere, we are leaking goals for fun and you can't win games like that.
Watson gave the ball away for the third.
Yes, it was a bad mistake from Watson but Matthews put him in trouble with a crazy ball across his own area.
This. Something thay even a sunday league defender knows not to do. If in doubt, put it out.......not put it back in the D.
How is Bowyer supposed to legislate for this? Gunter has nearly 100 caps at international level but can’t be trusted with a 10 yard pass under absolutely no pressure. Bowyer not beyond criticism at all, but what is a manager supposed to do about this? It’s a pass my 5 year old daughter could make and our performances have been riddled with these kinds of errors. Just not good enough from too many players.
This is really a comedy show! how is it possible for so many of our players to fall over.
I think I do. You put Pratley in central defence and he goes for everything which exposes him. Not his fault, he is not a centre half. You put Gunter in there and he is vulnerable in the air and can drift out of position and he isn't a centre half either. Deji is looking like a centre half but he needs to play next to a leader. He can't lead Gunter or Pratley through a game. Pearce could, but has lost the little pace he has which has made him a liability.
So these become glaring weaknesses, whoever plays, that actually undermine the confidence of the team. When you are trying to get back on track you sort out your spine. The centre backs are crucial in terms of conceding.
Hmmm.....think we need to bring in a proper centre half when the transfer window opens then. Oh wait.......
Put some fucking studs in your boots. In fact, get some proper boots that you can't just pull on like slippers.
I love the way that Oshilaja thinks that he's done a great job of defending his goal when the ball goes wide of the post, when he has actually looked like a clown.
Comments
Now if we had more confidence, it might be a decent tactic. But the evidence is there to see and a good manager counters it before it becomes a theme. You can't keep hitting yourself on the head with a hammer in the hope that you will miss! If you try to address it and it doesn't work, well at least you have tried to address it. But I have heard Bowyer praising the amount of chances we have made lately when I thought he was wildly exagerating!
A STABLE TEAM.
Every week we see changes. We won last week. LAST WEEK. 7 days ago. There is no way players should be rested when they've had a week to recover, even when they have to play this coming Saturday. We then don't play for another week.
I would have sympathy for Bowyer if he played a settled team & the team were then making mistakes. But he persists with playing someone, resting them, & then putting them back in. Also playing players out of position. Who was at fault for the first goal tonight. Gunter. A right back playing in centre of defence. I rest my case.
we allow too much space particularly behind our full backs. I’m afraid this all points to the coaching and that falls on LB. hate to say it as he has earned a long list of brownie points but Lee is burning through them at some rate
So these become glaring weaknesses, whoever plays, that actually undermine the confidence of the team. When you are trying to get back on track you sort out your spine. The centre backs are crucial in terms of conceding.
How many of our outfield players have played every minute of every game? Can they actually play every week, or is it just that Bowyer will tinker regardless of how they play?
I'd rather we play a settled side that's losing than change it every game and have no idea what will work and what won't.
Said it before but stop bringing in forwards when defence is clearly the problem.
Gunter is not a centre back and Oshilaja is not a footballer. The defence is four individuals and not one unit. We could not afford to wait for the return of Inniss and Famewo but now it's too late.
Too much tinkering with the line up and the formation. I hate to say it but I think that Bowyer has lost the plot. Why he thinks that the constant mass changes before and during the games is helpful is beyond me. Most successful teams have consistency of selection.
Apparently we have one of the best, if not the best, squad in the division. We have loads of individuals but we don't have a team and we don't have a manager that is getting the best out of any player.
So glad we got the game in at short notice, rather than hold off until our only 2 centre backs are fit and the new signings are integrated in to the squad.
All day I’ve been putting myself back in a positive frame of mind, but I should’ve known it’s not going to change overnight. The form has been terrible. It’s not to say it can’t change, but games are running out now (20 left), and I’m just not seeing anything to make believe it can change.
Take tonight. As others have said, Millar has been our most direct attacking player as of late, and we had a winning team against MK last week. Millar is dropped and JFC is playing on the right hand side of diamond, with Purrington on the bench. There’s no consistency. I like Maatsen, but I felt the defence as a unit looked so much better with Purrington last week. We keep conceding soft goals!!!! Like all the last minute injury time goals last season, this is obviously a massive problem. I know it’s not good management to single out players, but why is Bowyer happy to call out Maddison and Williams and Morgan etc for ducking tackles, but not Matthews last week or Watson this week?
As per other posts, only Stockley came out of tonight for me with any credit.
I think it’s all about the clear out ahead of next season now, there’s so many players I think have reached as far as they can go
Accrington have 4 games in hand on us & just scored 6 past a hapless Rovers team that we scrapped a 1-0 win against. Crewe, who were 2 divisions below us last season are only below us on goal difference.
I think it's timesome of our fans wake up & smell the coffee. Even once we get Famewo & Innis back (and there is no saying that they wont break down or get injured again) our team is so shell shocked & disjointed we'll be lucky to string 3 wins together before our master tactician of a manger decides to drop the previous MOTM & put a left back in his place.
But you all go on believing that just because Bowyer played for us & has shows passion then we must stick by him no matter what. In the meantime I'll just call it as I see it (6 out of 7 correct result predictions since the new year) and wait for the rest of you to catch up.......because we ain't going anywhere.
I wouldn't even give Bowyer the last 15 games of THIS season.
Squad needs a massive overhaul, and I have no faith in Bowyer being the man to do that. You can't tell me he is getting the best out of his players this season?
Does not look anywhere near the same player we had in the championship. Bizarre