Bows is making some really baffling decisions ATM. Williams had a stormer v Wimbledon, got left out next game. Maddison superb last game, doesn't feature today. Why? If players are hitting form, keep playing them! Morgan our most creative threat today, gets subbed. His replacement Williams somehow ends up playing right back. When things aren't working out, you go back to basics. That means playing players in their correct positions.
It must be an absolute kick in the nads for the players. Play well and you're dropped. Play shite and you're a shoe in for the rest of the season. Can anyone fathom it?
‘Playing players in their position is the most arm chair view of them all’
Im sorry but WTF?!!
Team meetings and individual instructions about how the opposition play or what the player your marking does (ie comes inside) is the absolute norm. You still play players in their natural position. Not a talented left back at right midfield whilst you’re playing two right footed players down the left. It’s just fucking madness.
Wingers who play on the opposite flank so they cut in must confuse the fuck out of you then!!
But yeaaa just because someone is left-footed they have to play that flank dont they
Don't mind players swapping wings during a game as it helps disrupt the other team. Even "cutting inside" on your better foot is a good ploy (Berg Gudmonsen has earned his career doing this) if you are then going to have a shot or some form of creative play at the end of it.
HOWEVER. It is the exception not the norm. I would hazard a guess that 90%+ of players prefer to play on their "better" side (we'll leave the discussion on why they can't play with both feet for another time). One thing you wont get with "wronged footed" players is them flying down the wing & sending over a cross with their wrong foot. Just doesn't happen.
The clinching arguement (and my last say on this & Saturday's debacle) is that if playing on the "wrong" wing was so effective then it would have been used over the past 150 years that Association Football had been played. It hasn't. I don't remember any great sides on the past adopting it. From Brazil, Barcelona to Brian Clough's Forest......who had the lumbering John Robertson who stuck rigidly to the left wing.....and Clough was no mug. It is quite a new phenomenon and one which is not used that widely......mainly because it doesn't generally work. It slows down play as invariably the player doesn't have enough confidence to take on his opponent.
If you really think playing a left back at right wing because he could possibly cut inside once or twice during the game is worth putting a right back in his place, which then completely upsets the balance of the team then I can only assume you ARE Lee Bowyer in disguise.
Please do point out when this brilliant tac tic has worked this season......I'm all ears. So far 2 games, 1 point and not a single chance created from this masterstroke of formation nonsense.
Of course we are not going down. I don't fear that, but I do fear not going up. Some people defending Bowyer are assessing the squad as being weaker than I believe it is. As another poster pointed out, we find ourselves, due to injuries, where defence is a weakness where it was recently a strength. What you have to do when that is the case is compensate elsewhere.
Ive doubted whether we'd go up from the very beginning... Too much disruption off the field, a squad put together late (would be curious to know how many players we signed compared to others after our takeover got completed), not to mention one hindered by the Salary Cap which meant we've had to rely on signings like Bogle etc.
So whilst we may differ on the manager, I am more optimistic than you are about the squad.
I don't get why people are so pesomistic about the quality of the squad.
In terms of course and distance and pedigree is better than Powell's sqaud and our last promotion winning one.
Obviously it's not perfect, far from it, but this isn't the squad of Abbotts, Bensons, Crofts, Foleys and Seabourns that some seem to think.
No pre-season to work on shape and tactics?
People will bemoan friendly results when we lose but its an opportunity for a Manager to figure out what works and doesnt
For large parts of the season its been from one game to the next with rest and recovery the focus rather than working on actual tactics
Ironically though our bad run of form has combined with the fact that we've had a few less midweek games
Of course as we know from recent interviews that Bowyer has apparently been trying to work on the attacking side of the team
But its not like he's got a pre-season friendly to play with where he can put out a squad that doesnt have to worry about the result if it goes wrong... I know we're entering a period of fixture congestion again but if a game gets cancelled due to COVID again, perhaps it would be a good idea to find another team that have had their game called off for similar reasons (yet who arent having to self-isolate) where we can have a behind closed doors game against someone to try a new approach with whatever Bowyer's ideal attacking team is.
But that's not an argument about what I am saying. No one had a proper preseason.
Yes we were disadvantaged by the fact we got relegated, as late as possible and lost most of our squad. As is normal. That was then compounded by the embargo.
The point I am making is are players aren't "shit", to the extent some people are making out. Its not a team of has beens or never were. As the case has been over previous non successful league 1 seasons of the recent past.
Almost all our players are in the 25-32 range where they should be at their peek. All of them have played at a higher level, bar Levitt and its unfair to include him.
With the exception of Maatsen, Doughty, Watson and Gunter they have all been promoted or got transfers to Championship clubs from there league 1 (2 in Bogle's case) performances. And Gunter and Watson had played over 1000 games between them before they dropped down to this level.
It's not the last minute bargain basement rag tag and bobtail motley crew some make out.
While Bogle did get a move from League 2 to the Championship, by then 104 of his 123 career goals were already behind him. That means 19 goals in the last 4 years. His record with us is consistent for how things have been for him at a level higher than League 2/non league which is where he has scored most of his goals.
I agree his goals record is but do you think his performances are?
Do you think a second, third or 4th championship manager would have a punt on the Bogle that is currently stinking out our team?
He is never going to be a top top striker but he has got significantly worse since he has been here and, in all honesty, I have never seen a play so publicly outed by his manager then picked again the next week.
Give Bowyer till October as NSS said. Bowyer would of then had 2 transfer windows without any b@llocks involved.
100%
With the salary cap in place a transfer window for Leagues 1 & 2 is worth shite. You could have £30million to spend on a player but wouldn't be able to sign anyone worth a dime. Unless he was under 21.
We are fucked.....and partly down to the fact that the current manager will have free reign to carry on with the players he has. Yes there will be a few ins & a few outs, but not enough to really make much of a difference, especially if then the players are played out of position.
Give Bowyer till October as NSS said. Bowyer would of then had 2 transfer windows without any b@llocks involved.
100%
With the salary cap in place a transfer window for Leagues 1 & 2 is worth shite. You could have £30million to spend on a player but wouldn't be able to sign anyone worth a dime. Unless he was under 21.
We are fucked.....and partly down to the fact that the current manager will have free reign to carry on with the players he has. Yes there will be a few ins & a few outs, but not enough to really make much of a difference, especially if then the players are played out of position.
There isn't, by and large, anything wrong with the players. We need 1 or 2, not 8 or 9.
‘Playing players in their position is the most arm chair view of them all’
Im sorry but WTF?!!
Team meetings and individual instructions about how the opposition play or what the player your marking does (ie comes inside) is the absolute norm. You still play players in their natural position. Not a talented left back at right midfield whilst you’re playing two right footed players down the left. It’s just fucking madness.
Wingers who play on the opposite flank so they cut in must confuse the fuck out of you then!!
Maatsen is a fucking left back!!!!!!!!
What does he do when he's facing a winger who cuts inside... Suddenly he's got Maatsen on his wrong foot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About half the premier league wingers are "inverted" how many full backs are?
Exactly. I can’t get my head around having to even explain it.
A left footed player will feel more at home playing left back because when they receive the ball, they open their body and have the whole pitch in front on them. A right footed player there, as we saw with Matthew’s yesterday, will always instinctively come inside onto their stronger foot, therefore minimising their options into congestion.
When defending, a left footed left back will try and show their winger inside, where usually, midfield support awaits. If their winger wants to go down the outside, they will feel much more comfortable tackling with that foot. That’s like defending 101. If you play a right footed player left back, then their instinctive, natural body shape, will be totally wasted.
You mean every manager that has lost to Liverpool over the last 3 seasons could have avoided defeat simply by swapping the full backs round?
You mean the Liverpool who have played the right footed James Milner at Left-Back over 50-times?
Surely they had another Left-Back they could have played there instead of him on those occasions...
Milner is one of the best utility players in the history of the premier league. He’s an intelligent and massively athletic footballer. If he played there, then Robertson was either injured, suspended or not fully fit. He wouldn’t be playing right midfield that’s for sure.
We are talking about limited league one footballers. They have got to the level they have by being good, but not amazing, at their position. Adam Matthew’s couldn’t be more steady Eddie at his natural right back slot. Maatsen is a developing young left full back, not a right midfielder.
It’s simply baffling selection for the players Lee had at his disposal.
Milner also didn't play there in front of two left backs. He played there before they signed Robertson and when Clyne had a serious injury.
When they stopped playing him there they won the European Cup, City needed a record number of pints to stop them winning the league, then they won it themselves.
There are reasons you would play a non left back at left back, as a one off, or due to injury or suspensions but because the opposition might play with an inverted winger is not one.
If it is you change it as soon as its bloody obvious he is on the other side anyway.
They played him there seven times last season, twice this...
I presume Robertson wasn’t playing right midfield in those 9 games?
Even if he wasnt... I thought the issue was about playing anyone out of position, let alone one player?
Hence why there was such complaint about Matthews at Left-Back this week and last...
The arguement, as you well know, is about not only playing a left back at right wing but then filling his place with a right footed player when there is a natural left back (who was deemed good enough to play in the Play off final.....and scored) on the bench. There is just no defence for that. Ever.
When asked for his thinking behind the new role for the Chelsea loanee, Bowyer explained: “We thought [Malik] Wilks would be playing on the right. He’s been playing on the right all the time, coming in on his left foot and he’s very good at it. So, I thought Adam, he’ll be coming on to his strong foot as well, his right foot.Adam had done well in the last game in possession, he was very good on the ball.
“Ian, a bit of pace in the final-third to cause them problems. That was the thinking behind that and we did alright. First-half, taking the goal aside, we did okay. They weren’t better than us. Then it was like, okay, now change things and try and make something happen. Try and get our wing-backs high up the pitch and try and hurt them a bit more. We were doing that until we went down to 10 men and then it was more difficult.”
They were better than us and I'm tired of the weekly lies.
Why only try and make something happen when you're losing? Why not try from the start?
Lee still didn't explain why he played Maatsen on the wrong side.
Maybe the problem is not Bowyer but just the fact we don't have very good players. We were a club that got relegated last year and on top of that some of the best players of that relegated team got shipped out. We nearly went into administration and barely had any window to bring anyone in. The only thing that has surprised me this season to me is that we started so well.
When asked for his thinking behind the new role for the Chelsea loanee, Bowyer explained: “We thought [Malik] Wilks would be playing on the right. He’s been playing on the right all the time, coming in on his left foot and he’s very good at it. So, I thought Adam, he’ll be coming on to his strong foot as well, his right foot.Adam had done well in the last game in possession, he was very good on the ball.
“Ian, a bit of pace in the final-third to cause them problems. That was the thinking behind that and we did alright. First-half, taking the goal aside, we did okay. They weren’t better than us. Then it was like, okay, now change things and try and make something happen. Try and get our wing-backs high up the pitch and try and hurt them a bit more. We were doing that until we went down to 10 men and then it was more difficult.”
They were better than us and I'm tired of the weekly lies.
Why only try and make something happen when you're losing? Why not try from the start?
Lee still didn't explain why he played Maatsen on the wrong side.
When asked for his thinking behind the new role for the Chelsea loanee, Bowyer explained: “We thought [Malik] Wilks would be playing on the right. He’s been playing on the right all the time, coming in on his left foot and he’s very good at it. So, I thought Adam, he’ll be coming on to his strong foot as well, his right foot.Adam had done well in the last game in possession, he was very good on the ball.
“Ian, a bit of pace in the final-third to cause them problems. That was the thinking behind that and we did alright. First-half, taking the goal aside, we did okay. They weren’t better than us. Then it was like, okay, now change things and try and make something happen. Try and get our wing-backs high up the pitch and try and hurt them a bit more. We were doing that until we went down to 10 men and then it was more difficult.”
They were better than us and I'm tired of the weekly lies.
Why only try and make something happen when you're losing? Why not try from the start?
Lee still didn't explain why he played Maatsen on the wrong side.
Maybe the problem is not Bowyer but just the fact we don't have very good players. We were a club that got relegated last year and on top of that some of the best players of that relegated team got shipped out. We nearly went into administration and barely had any window to bring anyone in. The only thing that has surprised me this season to me is that we started so well.
If we don't have very good players then playing them in unnatural positions is unlikely to make things any better. Recent results are down to Bowyer, I fail to see how anyone can argue against that.
Maybe the problem is not Bowyer but just the fact we don't have very good players. We were a club that got relegated last year and on top of that some of the best players of that relegated team got shipped out. We nearly went into administration and barely had any window to bring anyone in. The only thing that has surprised me this season to me is that we started so well.
Except we know that (for example) Matthews is an excellent right back. Maddison has a phenomenal record at this level. Playing one at left back and the other every other week on a whim is just bad management, not bad players
Maybe the problem is not Bowyer but just the fact we don't have very good players. We were a club that got relegated last year and on top of that some of the best players of that relegated team got shipped out. We nearly went into administration and barely had any window to bring anyone in. The only thing that has surprised me this season to me is that we started so well.
But the first sentence is just wrong. We certainly have better, significantly better, players than Swindon, Shrewsbury, MK Dons, Burton, Gillingham etc.
Is Matthews, a fine right back for this level, a better left back than their 1st choice left back is a different question. I would wager that Maatsen, and possibly Purrington, are though.
"First-half, taking the goal aside, I thought we did okay. They weren’t better than us." What was he watching
To be fair they werent and even Curbs said as much after the game
We got a few set pieces which Hull dealt with really badly, then you had Bogle's miss kick which should have been the equaliser. Its as Bowyer said after the game, we changed things at half-time which made us look better but then we still didnt create anything - Hull had their own chances but they were able to hit us on the counter the further and further we got into the game thanks to their goal, up until the sending off, they were camped in their own half hence why our defence was passing the ball amongst themselves on the half way line
Yes, but why does he always need to change things at HT or after 60/70 mins every game?
Apologies, you're a good bloke but I'll help you out here. It's because he's been setting the team up wrong all season and he's actually getting worse not better. He can't see the wood for the trees, he needs to take a step back, listen to winners like Curbs and have a rethink. He's still got time, but it's running out. He's making a pig's ear out of it, even if a few loyal blokes like yourself refuse to admit it. Everyone apart from Lee and a minority of fans can't be wrong.
Maybe the problem is not Bowyer but just the fact we don't have very good players. We were a club that got relegated last year and on top of that some of the best players of that relegated team got shipped out. We nearly went into administration and barely had any window to bring anyone in. The only thing that has surprised me this season to me is that we started so well.
If we don't have very good players then playing them in unnatural positions is unlikely to make things any better. Recent results are down to Bowyer, I fail to see how anyone can argue against that.
As the man said in "Christine".... "You can't polish a turd."
‘Playing players in their position is the most arm chair view of them all’
Im sorry but WTF?!!
Team meetings and individual instructions about how the opposition play or what the player your marking does (ie comes inside) is the absolute norm. You still play players in their natural position. Not a talented left back at right midfield whilst you’re playing two right footed players down the left. It’s just fucking madness.
Wingers who play on the opposite flank so they cut in must confuse the fuck out of you then!!
‘Playing players in their position is the most arm chair view of them all’
Im sorry but WTF?!!
Team meetings and individual instructions about how the opposition play or what the player your marking does (ie comes inside) is the absolute norm. You still play players in their natural position. Not a talented left back at right midfield whilst you’re playing two right footed players down the left. It’s just fucking madness.
Wingers who play on the opposite flank so they cut in must confuse the fuck out of you then!!
Maatsen is a fucking left back!!!!!!!!
He plays midfield for his National side.
Presumably left midfield or the left side of central midfield? I wouldn’t have a problem with him in either of those positions if we played Purrington at left back.
I found the selection yesterday depressing . I was looking forward to Maddison trying to prove McCann wrong by starting .
Maatsen is effective as a left midfielder on his natural side . Not happy that Bow selected him on the right though .
On Matthews at left back . I agree that he isn't effective going forward but defensively he is okay . We have had right footed left backs before Antony Barness , Mark Bowen and Harry Cripps to name three . Also Adam is not a novice in the position . He played there for Celtic against Barcelona in their famous win in 2012 . Similarly to yesterday his instruction was to stop a left footer cutting in on his stronger foot . A certain Lionel Messi .
Lee isn't helping himself at the moment. If the players are in their right positions and we play shit at least then the players can reasonably shoulder some blame, but at the moment he's giving the players a ready made excuse and drawing a target on his own back
A loss against Accrington and the heat is seriously on Bowyer
Bowyer is on a lose-lose situation with a few people on here for Friday.
Lose and it’ll be ranting and get rid. Draw and it’ll probably be slightly similar.
Win and it’ll be “well we should be beating teams like Accrington”,
So are you saying Charlton shouldn't be beating teams like Accrington, who struggled to get 1,000 supporters in L2 recently?
Blimey some think we should be established in the Premier League and others think we should think ourselves fortunate if we can beat Accrington (who are they) Stanley.
I don’t have an issue with the thinking behind trying to nullify Malik Wilkes, I have issue that we’re sacrificing too much of our game cautiously trying negate the other side. As I mentioned earlier, he’s not Messi. If he had have started down the right as he had been, so what? Gunter or Matthews or whoever was at RB would’ve just had to get on with it. I think they’re both capable.
It seems to me we’re not thinking about what we need to do to hurt the opposition.
The only other thing I can say in defence of Bowyer’s choice was that we have no width in midfield or pace, so Maatsen may have been able to double back on Wilkes in a much more effective manner. However, as soon as it was clear Wilks was on the left, why not switch Mastsen to left wing maybe? The shape may have been well off then in terms of redeploying Matthews, but it all just sounds like a mess anyway
A loss against Accrington and the heat is seriously on Bowyer
Bowyer is on a lose-lose situation with a few people on here for Friday.
Lose and it’ll be ranting and get rid. Draw and it’ll probably be slightly similar.
Win and it’ll be “well we should be beating teams like Accrington”,
So are you saying Charlton shouldn't be beating teams like Accrington, who struggled to get 1,000 supporters in L2 recently?
Blimey some think we should be established in the Premier League and others think we should think ourselves fortunate if we can beat Accrington (who are they) Stanley.
You're right we should be beating teams like Accrington - But at the same time they're in their position on merit so they deserve to be respected
The fact they've previously struggled to get 1,000 supporters should have nothing to do with it
I'd be pretty pissed if I was reading on Social Media about our Championship / Premier League opponents in the future bemoaning they should be beating us, simply because we were once in League One with only 10,000 fans
Am sure a number of our more delicate fanbase would be too
Comments
Play well and you're dropped.
Play shite and you're a shoe in for the rest of the season.
Can anyone fathom it?
HOWEVER. It is the exception not the norm. I would hazard a guess that 90%+ of players prefer to play on their "better" side (we'll leave the discussion on why they can't play with both feet for another time). One thing you wont get with "wronged footed" players is them flying down the wing & sending over a cross with their wrong foot. Just doesn't happen.
The clinching arguement (and my last say on this & Saturday's debacle) is that if playing on the "wrong" wing was so effective then it would have been used over the past 150 years that Association Football had been played. It hasn't. I don't remember any great sides on the past adopting it. From Brazil, Barcelona to Brian Clough's Forest......who had the lumbering John Robertson who stuck rigidly to the left wing.....and Clough was no mug. It is quite a new phenomenon and one which is not used that widely......mainly because it doesn't generally work. It slows down play as invariably the player doesn't have enough confidence to take on his opponent.
If you really think playing a left back at right wing because he could possibly cut inside once or twice during the game is worth putting a right back in his place, which then completely upsets the balance of the team then I can only assume you ARE Lee Bowyer in disguise.
Please do point out when this brilliant tac tic has worked this season......I'm all ears. So far 2 games, 1 point and not a single chance created from this masterstroke of formation nonsense.
Do you think a second, third or 4th championship manager would have a punt on the Bogle that is currently stinking out our team?
He is never going to be a top top striker but he has got significantly worse since he has been here and, in all honesty, I have never seen a play so publicly outed by his manager then picked again the next week.
back bowyer!
We are fucked.....and partly down to the fact that the current manager will have free reign to carry on with the players he has. Yes there will be a few ins & a few outs, but not enough to really make much of a difference, especially if then the players are played out of position.
When asked for his thinking behind the new role for the Chelsea loanee, Bowyer explained: “We thought [Malik] Wilks would be playing on the right. He’s been playing on the right all the time, coming in on his left foot and he’s very good at it. So, I thought Adam, he’ll be coming on to his strong foot as well, his right foot.Adam had done well in the last game in possession, he was very good on the ball.
“Ian, a bit of pace in the final-third to cause them problems. That was the thinking behind that and we did alright. First-half, taking the goal aside, we did okay. They weren’t better than us. Then it was like, okay, now change things and try and make something happen. Try and get our wing-backs high up the pitch and try and hurt them a bit more. We were doing that until we went down to 10 men and then it was more difficult.”
They were better than us and I'm tired of the weekly lies.
Why only try and make something happen when you're losing? Why not try from the start?
Lee still didn't explain why he played Maatsen on the wrong side.
I have finally sussed it out, stand up and take a bow @ForeverAddickted for you are indeed Lee Bowyer.
Or something
Recent results are down to Bowyer, I fail to see how anyone can argue against that.
Is Matthews, a fine right back for this level, a better left back than their 1st choice left back is a different question. I would wager that Maatsen, and possibly Purrington, are though.
Apologies, you're a good bloke but I'll help you out here.
It's because he's been setting the team up wrong all season and he's actually getting worse not better.
He can't see the wood for the trees, he needs to take a step back, listen to winners like Curbs and have a rethink.
He's still got time, but it's running out.
He's making a pig's ear out of it, even if a few loyal blokes like yourself refuse to admit it.
Everyone apart from Lee and a minority of fans can't be wrong.
Maatsen is effective as a left midfielder on his natural side . Not happy that Bow selected him on the right though .
On Matthews at left back . I agree that he isn't effective going forward but defensively he is okay . We have had right footed left backs before Antony Barness , Mark Bowen and Harry Cripps to name three . Also Adam is not a novice in the position . He played there for Celtic against Barcelona in their famous win in 2012 . Similarly to yesterday his instruction was to stop a left footer cutting in on his stronger foot . A certain Lionel Messi .
Blimey some think we should be established in the Premier League and others think we should think ourselves fortunate if we can beat Accrington (who are they) Stanley.
It seems to me we’re not thinking about what we need to do to hurt the opposition.
The fact they've previously struggled to get 1,000 supporters should have nothing to do with it
I'd be pretty pissed if I was reading on Social Media about our Championship / Premier League opponents in the future bemoaning they should be beating us, simply because we were once in League One with only 10,000 fans
Am sure a number of our more delicate fanbase would be too
Play your best side with players in correct positions.