Bowyer used to get booked on purpose to miss Christmas games.
My theory is i wouldn't put it past bows to want us to have a bad couple of games at xmas just in time for the transfer window to convince sandgard to action.
We were never going to beat hull anyway.
Caveat; haven't watched any games over xmas period. Please don't get your nickers in a twist.
Are you sure you are not mixing up Lee Bowyer with Danny Mills ?
I was at that game with Southampton. Danny Mills spent the whole game trying to wind the opposition up & get booked / sent off. Everyone knew what he was up to. Referee was resisting to book him but Mills forced him to send Mills off.
This thread is getting rather interesting, after we have all got over the pandemonium of yesterday, and the farce served up against Hull, we are now progressing onto a more in depth analysis of tactics either good or bad with regard to our general game, and the positional benefits of left or right footed players. Just shows how a post match thread can be expanded onto more open discussions.
I'm wondering if losing Pratley for 3 games will be a blessing.
So many back passes and poor passing to players on the touchline when surrounded by 2 or 3 of the opposition. (Pearce is also guilty of this.)
Hopefully, Charlie Barker will have to return to the team. If he's good enough he's old enough.
Bowyer already pretty much said that Oshilaja will play.
The inspiring confidence boosting comment along the lines of "we only have Deji left so he'll have to play"
I really hope Oshilaja plays well. Not to say "I told you so" to anyone but for himself as it must be pretty demoralising for him at the moment.
That comment by Bowyer was, at best, thoughtless and at worst, spiteful. It infuriated me. Deji’s qualities as a footballer are almost irrelevant here - you just don’t talk about someone as being a last resort then expect them to step up to the plate and give their all for you. From the current squad, I would completely understand if Williams, Bogle, Maddison, Purrington, Oshilaja and others feel unfairly treated by Bowyer and, as a result, are less willing to “run through brick walls” for him. Some of these are better players than others and all of them have their faults, but they’ve all been inexplicably dropped, publicly blamed or had their ability as a footballer insulted. You could argue that this is a management technique to toughen them up, but it’s interesting that, apart from this week when he criticised Pratley for his sending off, he doesn’t go after the older seasoned pros. How many times has he publicly criticised Pearce? Pratley? Gunter? Watson? They’ve all made fuck ups this season, but the comments have all been about “sloppy defending” or “losing the player” but no names mentioned. Williams, on the other hand comes on as sub, pulls out of a couple of tackles and gets humiliated by being subbed 10 mins later and then Bowyer doubles down by slaughtering him to the press. This is a player, remember, who on “Sunderland til I die” admitted to suffering from the mental stresses of football and, in particular, injuries (which he may just have avoided by pulling out of at least one of those challenges). (Admittedly, Williams played well in his next match, but he then got dropped again!)
I actually thought his criticism of Pratley this weekend was appropriate because, frankly, he behaved like an idiot and I think addressing that was unavoidable. But for Pratley “He’s let us down” was the extent of that criticism. Quite right. Senior player let the team down, apologised and that’s the end of it. Pratley should’ve and does know better. The trouble is, Bowyer then ruined it by seeming more unhappy about having to pick Oshilaja than he was about Pratley’s actions.
The point is, it seems Bowyer wants his senior pros to lead by example - I get that, but I don’t get why he thinks the best way to do that is to protect these senior pros from criticism while lashing out at the rest.
I don’t pretend to know what techniques work for each player and maybe Williams does need a kick up the arse or maybe Oshilaja needs reminding that he’s not Virgil Van Dyke, but I can’t believe it needs to be done in public and, if criticising in public is unavoidable, I can’t believe that the senior pros aren’t better equipped to cope with that public criticism than the rest of the squad.
I have my doubts about Bowyer and I think one of his biggest flaws is that he is stubborn. It seems he won’t let go. An admirable quality as a tenacious midfielder, certainly. Almost certainly a useful quality as a manager too, but surely has to be tempered with some pragmatism. He really has to look at what he can improve or change in himself aswell as those around him.
I hope he stays, but I also hope he changes. No, scratch that, not “changes”. Not just like that anyway. I hope he evolves. He’s still young for a manager. There’s hope for him, but that evolution needs to start now.
"Ian, a bit of pace in the final-third to cause them problems. That was the thinking behind that and we did alright"
Still doesn't make sense to play him on a side he's not used to. He could've still used his pace in the final third but on his more natural left hand side.
I thought it was so they could double up on Wilks. It was a totally disjointed line up.
‘Playing players in their position is the most arm chair view of them all’
Im sorry but WTF?!!
Team meetings and individual instructions about how the opposition play or what the player your marking does (ie comes inside) is the absolute norm. You still play players in their natural position. Not a talented left back at right midfield whilst you’re playing two right footed players down the left. It’s just fucking madness.
Wingers who play on the opposite flank so they cut in must confuse the fuck out of you then!!
Maatsen is a fucking left back!!!!!!!!
What does he do when he's facing a winger who cuts inside... Suddenly he's got Maatsen on his wrong foot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About half the premier league wingers are "inverted" how many full backs are?
Exactly. I can’t get my head around having to even explain it.
A left footed player will feel more at home playing left back because when they receive the ball, they open their body and have the whole pitch in front on them. A right footed player there, as we saw with Matthew’s yesterday, will always instinctively come inside onto their stronger foot, therefore minimising their options into congestion.
When defending, a left footed left back will try and show their winger inside, where usually, midfield support awaits. If their winger wants to go down the outside, they will feel much more comfortable tackling with that foot. That’s like defending 101. If you play a right footed player left back, then their instinctive, natural body shape, will be totally wasted.
You mean every manager that has lost to Liverpool over the last 3 seasons could have avoided defeat simply by swapping the full backs round?
You mean the Liverpool who have played the right footed James Milner at Left-Back over 50-times?
Surely they had another Left-Back they could have played there instead of him on those occasions...
Milner is one of the best utility players in the history of the premier league. He’s an intelligent and massively athletic footballer. If he played there, then Robertson was either injured, suspended or not fully fit. He wouldn’t be playing right midfield that’s for sure.
We are talking about limited league one footballers. They have got to the level they have by being good, but not amazing, at their position. Adam Matthew’s couldn’t be more steady Eddie at his natural right back slot. Maatsen is a developing young left full back, not a right midfielder.
It’s simply baffling selection for the players Lee had at his disposal.
Did you hear Curbs before the game telling us he warned Bowyer about the tactic of playing the passing from the back game? Minto asked him what happened and he said Burton. Bowyer can't even learn from Curbs.
The tactics are getting more and more bizarre. No way the players will be happy. Bowyer needs to go now. He isn't going to walk, so Thomas has to take the opportunity to save our season.
Well Bowyer wouldn't listen to me, so what chance has Curbs got? -
I am in a quandry as my heart says that LB must stay (and change/evolve) but my had says otherwise. Non football related experience of managers tells me that once a group (players in this case) start acting like they are then there is no way back.
So rational verses irrational opinions, he deserves the chance to take us to the end of the season but I say that as a 'fair' person rather than with expectation.
Most comments on tactics have already been made but I would add the following.
When we were on our unbeaten run, whilst it was not pretty the whole team were making the tackles and making the runs. We were winning 50/50s and even 40/60s, nobody was getting out muscled. It is now the other way around, we are losing 60/40s, we never win the second ball, we never make the bounce fall for us. We have stopped making our own luck.
A defence of good RBs + Osilaja/Barker + Pearce + good LBs should be more than good enough for most teams in this division. We can not use it as an excuse.
We have some really good and varied midfield players, but you wouldn't know it from how we are playing. This is the position that Bow and JJ played, these are good players for league 1 what has happened to the fight, energy and passion. We are actually crying out for a Lapslie type player.
If we have a prefered system of playing (and I would like to think we have) and the first choice/back up isn't available then dip into your U23s/youth. Other teams do it to us and the player rarely looks out of their depth see Gillingham, Hull, Shrewsbury, Swindon et al.
I feel for our forwards, what hope have they got when there is nobody near them.
‘Playing players in their position is the most arm chair view of them all’
Im sorry but WTF?!!
Team meetings and individual instructions about how the opposition play or what the player your marking does (ie comes inside) is the absolute norm. You still play players in their natural position. Not a talented left back at right midfield whilst you’re playing two right footed players down the left. It’s just fucking madness.
Wingers who play on the opposite flank so they cut in must confuse the fuck out of you then!!
Maatsen is a fucking left back!!!!!!!!
What does he do when he's facing a winger who cuts inside... Suddenly he's got Maatsen on his wrong foot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About half the premier league wingers are "inverted" how many full backs are?
Exactly. I can’t get my head around having to even explain it.
A left footed player will feel more at home playing left back because when they receive the ball, they open their body and have the whole pitch in front on them. A right footed player there, as we saw with Matthew’s yesterday, will always instinctively come inside onto their stronger foot, therefore minimising their options into congestion.
When defending, a left footed left back will try and show their winger inside, where usually, midfield support awaits. If their winger wants to go down the outside, they will feel much more comfortable tackling with that foot. That’s like defending 101. If you play a right footed player left back, then their instinctive, natural body shape, will be totally wasted.
You mean every manager that has lost to Liverpool over the last 3 seasons could have avoided defeat simply by swapping the full backs round?
You mean the Liverpool who have played the right footed James Milner at Left-Back over 50-times?
Surely they had another Left-Back they could have played there instead of him on those occasions...
Milner is one of the best utility players in the history of the premier league. He’s an intelligent and massively athletic footballer. If he played there, then Robertson was either injured, suspended or not fully fit. He wouldn’t be playing right midfield that’s for sure.
We are talking about limited league one footballers. They have got to the level they have by being good, but not amazing, at their position. Adam Matthew’s couldn’t be more steady Eddie at his natural right back slot. Maatsen is a developing young left full back, not a right midfielder.
It’s simply baffling selection for the players Lee had at his disposal.
Milner also didn't play there in front of two left backs. He played there before they signed Robertson and when Clyne had a serious injury.
When they stopped playing him there they won the European Cup, City needed a record number of pints to stop them winning the league, then they won it themselves.
There are reasons you would play a non left back at left back, as a one off, or due to injury or suspensions but because the opposition might play with an inverted winger is not one.
If it is you change it as soon as its bloody obvious he is on the other side anyway.
‘Playing players in their position is the most arm chair view of them all’
Im sorry but WTF?!!
Team meetings and individual instructions about how the opposition play or what the player your marking does (ie comes inside) is the absolute norm. You still play players in their natural position. Not a talented left back at right midfield whilst you’re playing two right footed players down the left. It’s just fucking madness.
Wingers who play on the opposite flank so they cut in must confuse the fuck out of you then!!
Maatsen is a fucking left back!!!!!!!!
What does he do when he's facing a winger who cuts inside... Suddenly he's got Maatsen on his wrong foot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About half the premier league wingers are "inverted" how many full backs are?
Exactly. I can’t get my head around having to even explain it.
A left footed player will feel more at home playing left back because when they receive the ball, they open their body and have the whole pitch in front on them. A right footed player there, as we saw with Matthew’s yesterday, will always instinctively come inside onto their stronger foot, therefore minimising their options into congestion.
When defending, a left footed left back will try and show their winger inside, where usually, midfield support awaits. If their winger wants to go down the outside, they will feel much more comfortable tackling with that foot. That’s like defending 101. If you play a right footed player left back, then their instinctive, natural body shape, will be totally wasted.
You mean every manager that has lost to Liverpool over the last 3 seasons could have avoided defeat simply by swapping the full backs round?
You mean the Liverpool who have played the right footed James Milner at Left-Back over 50-times?
Surely they had another Left-Back they could have played there instead of him on those occasions...
Milner is one of the best utility players in the history of the premier league. He’s an intelligent and massively athletic footballer. If he played there, then Robertson was either injured, suspended or not fully fit. He wouldn’t be playing right midfield that’s for sure.
We are talking about limited league one footballers. They have got to the level they have by being good, but not amazing, at their position. Adam Matthew’s couldn’t be more steady Eddie at his natural right back slot. Maatsen is a developing young left full back, not a right midfielder.
It’s simply baffling selection for the players Lee had at his disposal.
Milner also didn't play there in front of two left backs. He played there before they signed Robertson and when Clyne had a serious injury.
When they stopped playing him there they won the European Cup, City needed a record number of pints to stop them winning the league, then they won it themselves.
There are reasons you would play a non left back at left back, as a one off, or due to injury or suspensions but because the opposition might play with an inverted winger is not one.
If it is you change it as soon as its bloody obvious he is on the other side anyway.
They played him there seven times last season, twice this...
Regardless I think this discussion has runs its course, dont you... We're never going to agree so why bother trying?
‘Playing players in their position is the most arm chair view of them all’
Im sorry but WTF?!!
Team meetings and individual instructions about how the opposition play or what the player your marking does (ie comes inside) is the absolute norm. You still play players in their natural position. Not a talented left back at right midfield whilst you’re playing two right footed players down the left. It’s just fucking madness.
Wingers who play on the opposite flank so they cut in must confuse the fuck out of you then!!
Maatsen is a fucking left back!!!!!!!!
What does he do when he's facing a winger who cuts inside... Suddenly he's got Maatsen on his wrong foot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About half the premier league wingers are "inverted" how many full backs are?
Exactly. I can’t get my head around having to even explain it.
A left footed player will feel more at home playing left back because when they receive the ball, they open their body and have the whole pitch in front on them. A right footed player there, as we saw with Matthew’s yesterday, will always instinctively come inside onto their stronger foot, therefore minimising their options into congestion.
When defending, a left footed left back will try and show their winger inside, where usually, midfield support awaits. If their winger wants to go down the outside, they will feel much more comfortable tackling with that foot. That’s like defending 101. If you play a right footed player left back, then their instinctive, natural body shape, will be totally wasted.
You mean every manager that has lost to Liverpool over the last 3 seasons could have avoided defeat simply by swapping the full backs round?
You mean the Liverpool who have played the right footed James Milner at Left-Back over 50-times?
Surely they had another Left-Back they could have played there instead of him on those occasions...
Milner is one of the best utility players in the history of the premier league. He’s an intelligent and massively athletic footballer. If he played there, then Robertson was either injured, suspended or not fully fit. He wouldn’t be playing right midfield that’s for sure.
We are talking about limited league one footballers. They have got to the level they have by being good, but not amazing, at their position. Adam Matthew’s couldn’t be more steady Eddie at his natural right back slot. Maatsen is a developing young left full back, not a right midfielder.
It’s simply baffling selection for the players Lee had at his disposal.
Milner also didn't play there in front of two left backs. He played there before they signed Robertson and when Clyne had a serious injury.
When they stopped playing him there they won the European Cup, City needed a record number of pints to stop them winning the league, then they won it themselves.
There are reasons you would play a non left back at left back, as a one off, or due to injury or suspensions but because the opposition might play with an inverted winger is not one.
If it is you change it as soon as its bloody obvious he is on the other side anyway.
They played him there seven times last season, twice this...
I presume Robertson wasn’t playing right midfield in those 9 games?
‘Playing players in their position is the most arm chair view of them all’
Im sorry but WTF?!!
Team meetings and individual instructions about how the opposition play or what the player your marking does (ie comes inside) is the absolute norm. You still play players in their natural position. Not a talented left back at right midfield whilst you’re playing two right footed players down the left. It’s just fucking madness.
Wingers who play on the opposite flank so they cut in must confuse the fuck out of you then!!
Maatsen is a fucking left back!!!!!!!!
What does he do when he's facing a winger who cuts inside... Suddenly he's got Maatsen on his wrong foot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About half the premier league wingers are "inverted" how many full backs are?
Exactly. I can’t get my head around having to even explain it.
A left footed player will feel more at home playing left back because when they receive the ball, they open their body and have the whole pitch in front on them. A right footed player there, as we saw with Matthew’s yesterday, will always instinctively come inside onto their stronger foot, therefore minimising their options into congestion.
When defending, a left footed left back will try and show their winger inside, where usually, midfield support awaits. If their winger wants to go down the outside, they will feel much more comfortable tackling with that foot. That’s like defending 101. If you play a right footed player left back, then their instinctive, natural body shape, will be totally wasted.
You mean every manager that has lost to Liverpool over the last 3 seasons could have avoided defeat simply by swapping the full backs round?
You mean the Liverpool who have played the right footed James Milner at Left-Back over 50-times?
Surely they had another Left-Back they could have played there instead of him on those occasions...
Milner is one of the best utility players in the history of the premier league. He’s an intelligent and massively athletic footballer. If he played there, then Robertson was either injured, suspended or not fully fit. He wouldn’t be playing right midfield that’s for sure.
We are talking about limited league one footballers. They have got to the level they have by being good, but not amazing, at their position. Adam Matthew’s couldn’t be more steady Eddie at his natural right back slot. Maatsen is a developing young left full back, not a right midfielder.
It’s simply baffling selection for the players Lee had at his disposal.
Milner also didn't play there in front of two left backs. He played there before they signed Robertson and when Clyne had a serious injury.
When they stopped playing him there they won the European Cup, City needed a record number of pints to stop them winning the league, then they won it themselves.
There are reasons you would play a non left back at left back, as a one off, or due to injury or suspensions but because the opposition might play with an inverted winger is not one.
If it is you change it as soon as its bloody obvious he is on the other side anyway.
They played him there seven times last season, twice this...
I presume Robertson wasn’t playing right midfield in those 9 games?
Even if he wasnt... I thought the issue was about playing anyone out of position, let alone one player?
Hence why there was such complaint about Matthews at Left-Back this week and last...
‘Playing players in their position is the most arm chair view of them all’
Im sorry but WTF?!!
Team meetings and individual instructions about how the opposition play or what the player your marking does (ie comes inside) is the absolute norm. You still play players in their natural position. Not a talented left back at right midfield whilst you’re playing two right footed players down the left. It’s just fucking madness.
Wingers who play on the opposite flank so they cut in must confuse the fuck out of you then!!
Maatsen is a fucking left back!!!!!!!!
What does he do when he's facing a winger who cuts inside... Suddenly he's got Maatsen on his wrong foot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About half the premier league wingers are "inverted" how many full backs are?
Exactly. I can’t get my head around having to even explain it.
A left footed player will feel more at home playing left back because when they receive the ball, they open their body and have the whole pitch in front on them. A right footed player there, as we saw with Matthew’s yesterday, will always instinctively come inside onto their stronger foot, therefore minimising their options into congestion.
When defending, a left footed left back will try and show their winger inside, where usually, midfield support awaits. If their winger wants to go down the outside, they will feel much more comfortable tackling with that foot. That’s like defending 101. If you play a right footed player left back, then their instinctive, natural body shape, will be totally wasted.
You mean every manager that has lost to Liverpool over the last 3 seasons could have avoided defeat simply by swapping the full backs round?
You mean the Liverpool who have played the right footed James Milner at Left-Back over 50-times?
Surely they had another Left-Back they could have played there instead of him on those occasions...
Milner is one of the best utility players in the history of the premier league. He’s an intelligent and massively athletic footballer. If he played there, then Robertson was either injured, suspended or not fully fit. He wouldn’t be playing right midfield that’s for sure.
We are talking about limited league one footballers. They have got to the level they have by being good, but not amazing, at their position. Adam Matthew’s couldn’t be more steady Eddie at his natural right back slot. Maatsen is a developing young left full back, not a right midfielder.
It’s simply baffling selection for the players Lee had at his disposal.
Milner also didn't play there in front of two left backs. He played there before they signed Robertson and when Clyne had a serious injury.
When they stopped playing him there they won the European Cup, City needed a record number of pints to stop them winning the league, then they won it themselves.
There are reasons you would play a non left back at left back, as a one off, or due to injury or suspensions but because the opposition might play with an inverted winger is not one.
If it is you change it as soon as its bloody obvious he is on the other side anyway.
They played him there seven times last season, twice this...
Right, let's cut to the chase. Are you suggesting Klopp chooses to play Milner at left back when
a) he has two left backs avaliable b) because the opposition might play inverted wingers or c) so he can play his left back on the right wing?
If the answer is something else it's a totally irrelevant comparison.
‘Playing players in their position is the most arm chair view of them all’
Im sorry but WTF?!!
Team meetings and individual instructions about how the opposition play or what the player your marking does (ie comes inside) is the absolute norm. You still play players in their natural position. Not a talented left back at right midfield whilst you’re playing two right footed players down the left. It’s just fucking madness.
Wingers who play on the opposite flank so they cut in must confuse the fuck out of you then!!
Maatsen is a fucking left back!!!!!!!!
What does he do when he's facing a winger who cuts inside... Suddenly he's got Maatsen on his wrong foot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About half the premier league wingers are "inverted" how many full backs are?
Exactly. I can’t get my head around having to even explain it.
A left footed player will feel more at home playing left back because when they receive the ball, they open their body and have the whole pitch in front on them. A right footed player there, as we saw with Matthew’s yesterday, will always instinctively come inside onto their stronger foot, therefore minimising their options into congestion.
When defending, a left footed left back will try and show their winger inside, where usually, midfield support awaits. If their winger wants to go down the outside, they will feel much more comfortable tackling with that foot. That’s like defending 101. If you play a right footed player left back, then their instinctive, natural body shape, will be totally wasted.
You mean every manager that has lost to Liverpool over the last 3 seasons could have avoided defeat simply by swapping the full backs round?
You mean the Liverpool who have played the right footed James Milner at Left-Back over 50-times?
Surely they had another Left-Back they could have played there instead of him on those occasions...
Milner is one of the best utility players in the history of the premier league. He’s an intelligent and massively athletic footballer. If he played there, then Robertson was either injured, suspended or not fully fit. He wouldn’t be playing right midfield that’s for sure.
We are talking about limited league one footballers. They have got to the level they have by being good, but not amazing, at their position. Adam Matthew’s couldn’t be more steady Eddie at his natural right back slot. Maatsen is a developing young left full back, not a right midfielder.
It’s simply baffling selection for the players Lee had at his disposal.
Milner also didn't play there in front of two left backs. He played there before they signed Robertson and when Clyne had a serious injury.
When they stopped playing him there they won the European Cup, City needed a record number of pints to stop them winning the league, then they won it themselves.
There are reasons you would play a non left back at left back, as a one off, or due to injury or suspensions but because the opposition might play with an inverted winger is not one.
If it is you change it as soon as its bloody obvious he is on the other side anyway.
They played him there seven times last season, twice this...
Right, let's cut to the chase. Are you suggesting Klopp chooses to play Milner at left back when
a) he has two left backs avaliable b) because the opposition might play inverted wingers or c) so he can play his left back on the right wing?
If the answer is something else it's a totally irrelevant comparison.
I was purely pointing out that he's played there after they signed Robertson when you claimed they didnt
Its why I highlighted that particular point from your post... It actually troubles me I've had to spell that out for you
‘Playing players in their position is the most arm chair view of them all’
Im sorry but WTF?!!
Team meetings and individual instructions about how the opposition play or what the player your marking does (ie comes inside) is the absolute norm. You still play players in their natural position. Not a talented left back at right midfield whilst you’re playing two right footed players down the left. It’s just fucking madness.
Wingers who play on the opposite flank so they cut in must confuse the fuck out of you then!!
Maatsen is a fucking left back!!!!!!!!
What does he do when he's facing a winger who cuts inside... Suddenly he's got Maatsen on his wrong foot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About half the premier league wingers are "inverted" how many full backs are?
Exactly. I can’t get my head around having to even explain it.
A left footed player will feel more at home playing left back because when they receive the ball, they open their body and have the whole pitch in front on them. A right footed player there, as we saw with Matthew’s yesterday, will always instinctively come inside onto their stronger foot, therefore minimising their options into congestion.
When defending, a left footed left back will try and show their winger inside, where usually, midfield support awaits. If their winger wants to go down the outside, they will feel much more comfortable tackling with that foot. That’s like defending 101. If you play a right footed player left back, then their instinctive, natural body shape, will be totally wasted.
You mean every manager that has lost to Liverpool over the last 3 seasons could have avoided defeat simply by swapping the full backs round?
You mean the Liverpool who have played the right footed James Milner at Left-Back over 50-times?
Surely they had another Left-Back they could have played there instead of him on those occasions...
Milner is one of the best utility players in the history of the premier league. He’s an intelligent and massively athletic footballer. If he played there, then Robertson was either injured, suspended or not fully fit. He wouldn’t be playing right midfield that’s for sure.
We are talking about limited league one footballers. They have got to the level they have by being good, but not amazing, at their position. Adam Matthew’s couldn’t be more steady Eddie at his natural right back slot. Maatsen is a developing young left full back, not a right midfielder.
It’s simply baffling selection for the players Lee had at his disposal.
Milner also didn't play there in front of two left backs. He played there before they signed Robertson and when Clyne had a serious injury.
When they stopped playing him there they won the European Cup, City needed a record number of pints to stop them winning the league, then they won it themselves.
There are reasons you would play a non left back at left back, as a one off, or due to injury or suspensions but because the opposition might play with an inverted winger is not one.
If it is you change it as soon as its bloody obvious he is on the other side anyway.
They played him there seven times last season, twice this...
I presume Robertson wasn’t playing right midfield in those 9 games?
Even if he wasnt... I thought the issue was about playing anyone out of position, let alone one player?
Hence why there was such complaint about Matthews at Left-Back this week and last...
I’m sorry but you’ve lost me.
I can’t make it anymore simple. Why are we playing a right back at left back when we have probably the best left back in the league playing right midfield, all whilst there are right midfielders on the bench?
If Maatsen was injured and Purrington wasn’t available then I could at least sympathise with having to play Matthew’s there.
I enjoy your pre match posts and I have always held your views in high regard when it comes to football, but I’m really confused with your stance on this.
I can’t remember being this baffled about a team selection in any football for yonks.
In reality just having Watson out would have possibly aided us to make a change in the middle. Pratley would have moved into midfield. But having them both out will leave a little hole in squad strength.
Our CB's that have been played out of position have conceded 2 penalties and had a sending off.
It's not just the positional problems. I've mentioned before how poor we are when retaining the ball under pressure. We fall to pieces. It starts from the back. Pratley is absolutely awful at distributing the ball. You never know where it will end up, neither does he. The midfield are constantly sending even the simplist of ball astray. And up top we are woeful, especially with Bogle. It's got to the point where if we do manage to get it up to him, it's pretty much coming straight back down our throat.
I think/hope this is a confidence thing. No professional at any level should be making these kinds of mistakes. It's very very shoddy. It's the simple stuff. The basics that we are getting so wrong at this current moment in time
It brings me onto where we are going and what our actual style is? Sandgaard has made it clear that we are going to build a sound style of play and it's going to be rolled out from the senior squad right down to the kids. But if you've watched us over the past couple of months you'd really struggle to see how any sort of style can be woven out of chopping and changing mediocre players and playing them out of position.
‘Playing players in their position is the most arm chair view of them all’
Im sorry but WTF?!!
Team meetings and individual instructions about how the opposition play or what the player your marking does (ie comes inside) is the absolute norm. You still play players in their natural position. Not a talented left back at right midfield whilst you’re playing two right footed players down the left. It’s just fucking madness.
Wingers who play on the opposite flank so they cut in must confuse the fuck out of you then!!
Maatsen is a fucking left back!!!!!!!!
What does he do when he's facing a winger who cuts inside... Suddenly he's got Maatsen on his wrong foot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About half the premier league wingers are "inverted" how many full backs are?
Exactly. I can’t get my head around having to even explain it.
A left footed player will feel more at home playing left back because when they receive the ball, they open their body and have the whole pitch in front on them. A right footed player there, as we saw with Matthew’s yesterday, will always instinctively come inside onto their stronger foot, therefore minimising their options into congestion.
When defending, a left footed left back will try and show their winger inside, where usually, midfield support awaits. If their winger wants to go down the outside, they will feel much more comfortable tackling with that foot. That’s like defending 101. If you play a right footed player left back, then their instinctive, natural body shape, will be totally wasted.
You mean every manager that has lost to Liverpool over the last 3 seasons could have avoided defeat simply by swapping the full backs round?
You mean the Liverpool who have played the right footed James Milner at Left-Back over 50-times?
Surely they had another Left-Back they could have played there instead of him on those occasions...
Milner is one of the best utility players in the history of the premier league. He’s an intelligent and massively athletic footballer. If he played there, then Robertson was either injured, suspended or not fully fit. He wouldn’t be playing right midfield that’s for sure.
We are talking about limited league one footballers. They have got to the level they have by being good, but not amazing, at their position. Adam Matthew’s couldn’t be more steady Eddie at his natural right back slot. Maatsen is a developing young left full back, not a right midfielder.
It’s simply baffling selection for the players Lee had at his disposal.
Milner also didn't play there in front of two left backs. He played there before they signed Robertson and when Clyne had a serious injury.
When they stopped playing him there they won the European Cup, City needed a record number of pints to stop them winning the league, then they won it themselves.
There are reasons you would play a non left back at left back, as a one off, or due to injury or suspensions but because the opposition might play with an inverted winger is not one.
If it is you change it as soon as its bloody obvious he is on the other side anyway.
They played him there seven times last season, twice this...
Right, let's cut to the chase. Are you suggesting Klopp chooses to play Milner at left back when
a) he has two left backs avaliable b) because the opposition might play inverted wingers or c) so he can play his left back on the right wing?
If the answer is something else it's a totally irrelevant comparison.
I was purely pointing out that he's played there after they signed Robertson when you claimed they didnt
Its why I highlighted that particular point from your post... It actually troubles me I've had to spell that out for you
He played the majority of those games under the circumstances I suggested. As you rightfully said he has played some games there since. It actually troubles me I have to spell it out to you.
None for the reason Bowyer played Matthews there.
No one said you can't have a right footed left back, what "we" are saying is it's bloody stupid to play 2 players out of position to nullify a player that didn't even play where you expected him to. No one would be as critical if he didn't have 2 fully fit left backs avalible either.
It was wrong, it was wrong the previous game as well. To repeat it is stupid, to defend it is blind loyalty at best.
Without a doubt Bowyer's approach has drastically changed since the halcyon days leading up to our promotion in 2019. And it is that change that is disturbing to the majority of the posters on this thread (determined by the actual posts themselves or the respective Likes or LOLS). And, the main thing that people can see is the change from a free spirited more attacking mindset to a rigid defensive mindset that is killing our games. And this has been happening for over a year now but is getting worse since Thomas has taken over. This is just an obvious observation, however you dress it up, and those who can't see that are just being deluded or have other reasons for not seeing the obvious.
But, the main thing I want to touch upon is, what is driving Bowyer now? What are his reasons for changing? Why has his approach changed? Why does he need to have this seemingly dictatorial approach to everything Charlton now? Why has he gone away from the free-flowing, free-spirited, positive Bowyer that we saw in our promotion season? Where has the team player Bowyer gone? To be honest this is a very deep subject that I have my thoughts on but I'm not writing a manuscript here.
But, one thing sticks out to me and I have mentioned this before. As far as I'm concerned and we can all see it, the only time we have been entertained with this free spirited approach this season is the second half of the Wimbledon game. This is the game when the new Valley Pass with Scott Minto and Curbs was being introduced but, more importantly, was the game when TS was in attendance. And we all know that Thomas has said that he and Bowyer are on the same page and that he likes attacking football. Is it just a coincidence that it was that game that Bowyer had those shackles lifted and we played like a team inspired. And that was with essentially the same players we had at our disposal yesterday. Was Bowyer influenced by Thomas being in attendance in a different way than Thomas being remote and 4,000 miles away?
However you dress this up now it's not Lee Bowyer who's running the shop but Thomas Sandgaard. And maybe in a weird psyche way Bowyer knows this and it is making him react in the way he is. You would think he would have naturally gravitated back to the positive, free flowing approach of the promotion season but instead he's going the other way. Maybe Bowyer is feeling the pressure. He knows he's not in total control anymore and this is how he's reacting. A defence mechanism.
Probably a bit heavy of a discussion but I do think it's valid. Lee Bowyer is probably shooting himself in the foot and it would be easier for him to just go with the flow, accept the new situation that Thomas has given him/us, and enjoy it. Instead he seems to be trying to retain control by overthinking things and just being too clever for his own good. If he persists it will be his undoing.
In reality just having Watson out would have possibly aided us to make a change in the middle. Pratley would have moved into midfield. But having them both out will leave a little hole in squad strength.
Our CB's that have been played out of position have conceded 2 penalties and had a sending off.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true.
When Watson went off injured on Saturday, the obvious substitution was to bring Deji on and move Pratley into the DM role. Bowyer decided to replace Watson with Gilbey.
I think if Pratley wasn’t suspended for the next 3 games he’d still be playing at CB unless we sign a new CB. And even then it’s likely he’d still get the nod.
In reality just having Watson out would have possibly aided us to make a change in the middle. Pratley would have moved into midfield. But having them both out will leave a little hole in squad strength.
Our CB's that have been played out of position have conceded 2 penalties and had a sending off.
Shouldnt do... Oshilaja at CB | Forster-Caskey at CDM will be my guess for the next three games
The bench will be a little more interesting though
I wonder if any fans will ever put their hand up and admit they're wrong if he costs us... HAHA!!
Sorry mate but this is a bit weird. Oshilaja isn't good enough but he's a centre back so should play ahead of a centre midfielder, that's it. He most probably will fuck up.
I don't rate Oshilaja highly and I was more than happy to play Pratley at CH to begin with, because he is a better player, although may not be a better CH.
However, Pratley has not been playing well at CH for some time and we also miss him in midfield.
When it clearly wasn't working Oshilaja should have been given a chance, a few games ago and Pratley played in front as the defensive midfielder.
Watson has been disappointing, is clearly too slow and should have been on the bench.
Absolutely staggered how willingly trigger happy people are. Embarrassing given how fawning most supporters were of him up to a few weeks ago. Football has got so short-termism it’s unreal.
Thank god the Internet wasn’t such a thing for Curbs when he went 8 games without a point, 13 games without a win. Pretty sure we would be told now he hasn’t a clue, had lost the dressing room etc.
Our current form in that comparative 13 game period?
6 wins 4 draws 3 defeats
During a unique national crisis, and accompanying injury crisis.
Embarrassing lack of loyalty to Bowyer and Jackson. They deserve better support than that and I’m gutted it appears we’re collectively not tuned that way. I thought we were.
Give this man a promote.
How many Promotes can one man take for gods sake
I'd be content with one tbh.
Begging'll get you nowhere Elfsborg
I should have got the sympathy vote after the constipation thread.
Right, I'll start by saying that that was bad, and that I don't agree with how Bowyer's been setting up recently. I don't have an issue with playing Pratley at CB as he's a better CB than Oshilaja and we all know it, though he let us down today with some silliness. Playing Matthews at left back is odd, especially given that Purrington is a player that really doesn't let us down. You can see what Bowyer was trying to do today with going to a flat 4-4-2 to try and get some solidity, and in many ways he tried to do exactly what he did against Hull post-lockdown. He's gone with a flat four with Albie on the left. You could even argue he's put Matthews there to deal with their threat cutting in on the right, which is exactly what he did last time, except he used Oshilaja then, and to some decent effect. What didn't help is that McGeady, average as he was, was a right winger whereas Maatsen is a LB he put on the wrong flank so there was no hope of width. Similarly Bogle isn't as good as Bonne or Hemed so we were always going to struggle in attack.
That aside though, you can see where the real problems lie. We started the season with a plan, and that plan was to use Alfie's pace out wide to counter attack off the back of a solid defensive unit. We lost Alfie, which massively affected our abilities on the break and stopped our good passers like Gilbey and Forster-Caskey having anyone to aim their raking passes to. We adapted though and settled for solidity alone, which worked. We weren't electric but we didn't concede and we were winning game after game without conceding. We then lost both of our Goliath centre backs, as well as our midfield creator in Shinnie and that's killed us completely. We now lack the pace and the solidity to play the way we'd hoped to, so Bowyer has tried to fall back on his tried and tested methods, but we didn't build a squad to suit those systems so we're not as good at it anymore. We don't have the abilities of Cullen, Bielik, Aribo and Gallagher anymore. Our midfielders are much slower and that causes us to lack any coherence between attack and defence. Add to that the fact that instead of having Lyle Taylor we have Omar Bogle and you can see where the true issues are. We desperately, desperately need pace, and we need Inniss and Famewo back. I do agree that Bowyer's attempts to pivot from our strategy have gone a bit Twilight Zone, but all this talk of sacking the manager is just bonkers when you actually think about what we're dealing with. How many other teams wouldn't struggle losing the three players absolutely vital to their way of playing long term, and then a boat-load on top of that? Add to that the wage cap and our late takeover, meaning we haven't got much depth in the squad in line with our change in style and I think any team would struggle. We're in a squad transition; remnants of one way of playing are alongside new players and when you have to mix them together in too-large quantities problems show.
Despite all that, this was our first loss in 5 games. Granted we've only won 1 in that period (though we should bear in mind there were two late equalisers in there to make things look worse), but we're still 6th. Still on for the Play-Offs despite the ridiculous amount of obstacles that have been put in the clubs way leading up to and during this season. Yet there's people who want the manager out because we've lost to probably the best team in the league and drew with Swindon. I get that people don't like the performances, but that's all part of the larger issues we've had. The entitlement since Sandgaard came in is astonishing. It will take time for us to to rebuild as a club, we might not go up this season and it might not always look pretty, but the knives coming out for Bowyer off a few dodgy decisions and the fact we're not pissing a league that we apparently 'deserve' to get promoted from is uncomfortable. Hopefully in January Schwarz can hit the ground running and we can get some pace to take the pressure off the defence and things suddenly won't look so bad. Bowyer can definitely help by making some more logical decisions but playing Maatsen and LB and our worst CB isn't going to fix the combination of injuries and the legacy of bad club management that Lee and the club have to deal with every step of the way. Chill. It'll be ok.
Fuck, I just cashed out on my promotion and top 6 bets.
I wonder if any fans will ever put their hand up and admit they're wrong if he costs us... HAHA!!
Sorry mate but this is a bit weird. Oshilaja isn't good enough but he's a centre back so should play ahead of a centre midfielder, that's it. He most probably will fuck up.
I don't rate Oshilaja highly and I was more than happy to play Pratley at CH to begin with, because he is a better player, although may not be a better CH.
However, Pratley has not been playing well at CH for some time and we also miss him in midfield.
When it clearly wasn't working Oshilaja should have been given a chance, a few games ago and Pratley played in front as the defensive midfielder.
Watson has been disappointing, is clearly too slow and should have been on the bench.
Exactly how I feel. Not a huge fan of Deji but should be given a chance. If Bowyer still has him behind Pratley as of yesterday then I just don’t understand why he won’t let him leave.
Yesterday was abysmal. However, Bowyer has earned the right to have this January window under Sandgaard. Not many wanted him out before the 2 centre halves got injured. We need some patience here...
So, how long does Bowyer get? A week after the end of the window? That prevents a new face making his mark on the signings.
To the end of the season? That could blow any chance of promotion based on current form and team set up and selection.
I would love Bowyer to turn it around and perhaps he will. Based on current evidence, I'm afraid that I don't see it though.
Given the ambitions Thomas has voiced, I'd be surprised if he allows Bowyer to continue for much longer if there is no change in approach.
Do you think another manager could come in and get us up this season ?
Yes. Do you think anyone else could have done much worse, with the players available, over the last 2 months?
Read the bit about Pratley’s suspension and it costing us. I actually think it’s a blessing in disguise. I’ve not been impressed with the fact he seems to be first name on the team sheet every week and I think it will force Bowyer to play Oshilaja at the back with Pearce. Might not be the best centre back pairing in the world, but Oshilaja gives us a bit of bite and pace.
The Malik Wilks comment about playing on the right just epitomises the cautious negative football we seem to be playing at the moment. We’re sacrificing players in their normal positions for the sake of trying to nullify an opposing player. It’s too convoluted. As others have said, trust that your players are capable enough and let them deal with it. The whole team gets thrown into a positional bingo game on account of us worrying about Wilks ffs. He’s a decent player, but he’s not Messi. The whole thing just screams weakness on our part that we’re going to those lengths to nullify and not focus on what we need to do to win a game.
The final point I’ve got is about the piss poor standard of the league. I agree it’s bad, but when I read comments over and over again and see performances like the ones we’ve turned in over the last 10 games, I think, we’re right at home in it
Watson too - I doubt many teams have got promoted starting two 35 year old defensive midfielders in every game. Bowyer’s reluctance to give Morgan a run despite him offering creativity and mobility. It might also force him to start one of Maddison or Williams in every game.
Good to have experience in the squad, but neither are so good that they should always be guaranteed starters. It’s not as if this squad is as young as squads we’ve had in recent years, for one thing we’re playing fewer academy players.
when it comes to our youth Bowyer seems to have no time for them.
I'm not saying these youngsters are the answer but the players who are in their position are hopeless so why not give them a go??
Youngsters bring quick feet, energy and enthusiasm. Could be a breath of fresh air to a jaded team.
This is a really good point. I know it's a completely different level, but just look at how Arteta's persistence with the likes of Saka and Smith-Rowe is finally paying off. I listened to Saka's post-match interview last night and he said that him and the other 'youngsters' are buzzing for it, and how Arteta's faith and trust in them has really boosted their performance levels and confidence.
As I say, it's arguable a very tenuous comparison, but at the end of the day 'People are People' and are motivated by positivity and encouragement.
League One not the division to blood loads of youngsters.
Astonished that the majority of Charlton Life seem to want Bowyer out ... fortunately it would appear that Thomas does not agree with you.
I think the majority of Charlton Life want Bowyer to play players in the correct positions.
It’s amazing how all the Curbs revisionists completely forget the days he played right backs at left back, wide midfielders on the wrong wings, centre defenders as centre forwards, strikers out wide, four narrow central midfielders across the midfield with no width.
Coupled with being out of the game for 12 plus years and having zero experience of this level.
I don't want Bowyer out, I love him and feel he deserves more time for sticking by the club when we could have gone forever.
However, no one can keep making the same mistakes week after week and Bowyer is doing so.
Curbs spoke more sense pre match than Bowyer has for a long time.
I appreciate that when things aren't working you need to try something different.
But when you are making things worse, you need to recognise it.
As Curbs said before the game, you need a settled side.
As Curbs uses to say quite often when he was manager. If it's all going wrong then you need to go back to basics.
Lee needs to play the players in their correct positions. He needs to keep a settled team. He needs to forget his pre conceptions/loyalties and play the lads who can win a game of football, not who always puts in the most effort at training or you feel most loyal to, because they agreed to sign in the summer when you were desperate for signings.
Read the bit about Pratley’s suspension and it costing us. I actually think it’s a blessing in disguise. I’ve not been impressed with the fact he seems to be first name on the team sheet every week and I think it will force Bowyer to play Oshilaja at the back with Pearce. Might not be the best centre back pairing in the world, but Oshilaja gives us a bit of bite and pace.
The Malik Wilks comment about playing on the right just epitomises the cautious negative football we seem to be playing at the moment. We’re sacrificing players in their normal positions for the sake of trying to nullify an opposing player. It’s too convoluted. As others have said, trust that your players are capable enough and let them deal with it. The whole team gets thrown into a positional bingo game on account of us worrying about Wilks ffs. He’s a decent player, but he’s not Messi. The whole thing just screams weakness on our part that we’re going to those lengths to nullify and not focus on what we need to do to win a game.
The final point I’ve got is about the piss poor standard of the league. I agree it’s bad, but when I read comments over and over again and see performances like the ones we’ve turned in over the last 10 games, I think, we’re right at home in it
Watson too - I doubt many teams have got promoted starting two 35 year old defensive midfielders in every game. Bowyer’s reluctance to give Morgan a run despite him offering creativity and mobility. It might also force him to start one of Maddison or Williams in every game.
Good to have experience in the squad, but neither are so good that they should always be guaranteed starters. It’s not as if this squad is as young as squads we’ve had in recent years, for one thing we’re playing fewer academy players.
when it comes to our youth Bowyer seems to have no time for them.
I'm not saying these youngsters are the answer but the players who are in their position are hopeless so why not give them a go??
Youngsters bring quick feet, energy and enthusiasm. Could be a breath of fresh air to a jaded team.
This is a really good point. I know it's a completely different level, but just look at how Arteta's persistence with the likes of Saka and Smith-Rowe is finally paying off. I listened to Saka's post-match interview last night and he said that him and the other 'youngsters' are buzzing for it, and how Arteta's faith and trust in them has really boosted their performance levels and confidence.
As I say, it's arguable a very tenuous comparison, but at the end of the day 'People are People' and are motivated by positivity and encouragement.
League One not the division to blood loads of youngsters.
What youngsters like Dijksteel, Cullen, Aribo, Grant, Phillips and Bielik?
Of course we are not going down. I don't fear that, but I do fear not going up. Some people defending Bowyer are assessing the squad as being weaker than I believe it is. As another poster pointed out, we find ourselves, due to injuries, where defence is a weakness where it was recently a strength. What you have to do when that is the case is compensate elsewhere.
Ive doubted whether we'd go up from the very beginning... Too much disruption off the field, a squad put together late (would be curious to know how many players we signed compared to others after our takeover got completed), not to mention one hindered by the Salary Cap which meant we've had to rely on signings like Bogle etc.
So whilst we may differ on the manager, I am more optimistic than you are about the squad.
I don't get why people are so pesomistic about the quality of the squad.
In terms of course and distance and pedigree is better than Powell's sqaud and our last promotion winning one.
Obviously it's not perfect, far from it, but this isn't the squad of Abbotts, Bensons, Crofts, Foleys and Seabourns that some seem to think.
No pre-season to work on shape and tactics?
People will bemoan friendly results when we lose but its an opportunity for a Manager to figure out what works and doesnt
For large parts of the season its been from one game to the next with rest and recovery the focus rather than working on actual tactics
Ironically though our bad run of form has combined with the fact that we've had a few less midweek games
Of course as we know from recent interviews that Bowyer has apparently been trying to work on the attacking side of the team
But its not like he's got a pre-season friendly to play with where he can put out a squad that doesnt have to worry about the result if it goes wrong... I know we're entering a period of fixture congestion again but if a game gets cancelled due to COVID again, perhaps it would be a good idea to find another team that have had their game called off for similar reasons (yet who arent having to self-isolate) where we can have a behind closed doors game against someone to try a new approach with whatever Bowyer's ideal attacking team is.
But that's not an argument about what I am saying. No one had a proper preseason.
Yes we were disadvantaged by the fact we got relegated, as late as possible and lost most of our squad. As is normal. That was then compounded by the embargo.
The point I am making is are players aren't "shit", to the extent some people are making out. Its not a team of has beens or never were. As the case has been over previous non successful league 1 seasons of the recent past.
Almost all our players are in the 25-32 range where they should be at their peek. All of them have played at a higher level, bar Levitt and its unfair to include him.
With the exception of Maatsen, Doughty, Watson and Gunter they have all been promoted or got transfers to Championship clubs from there league 1 (2 in Bogle's case) performances. And Gunter and Watson had played over 1000 games between them before they dropped down to this level.
It's not the last minute bargain basement rag tag and bobtail motley crew some make out.
While Bogle did get a move from League 2 to the Championship, by then 104 of his 123 career goals were already behind him. That means 19 goals in the last 4 years. His record with us is consistent for how things have been for him at a level higher than League 2/non league which is where he has scored most of his goals.
Comments
I was at that game with Southampton. Danny Mills spent the whole game trying to wind the opposition up & get booked / sent off. Everyone knew what he was up to. Referee was resisting to book him but Mills forced him to send Mills off.
Just shows how a post match thread can be expanded onto more open discussions.
It infuriated me.
Deji’s qualities as a footballer are almost irrelevant here - you just don’t talk about someone as being a last resort then expect them to step up to the plate and give their all for you.
From the current squad, I would completely understand if Williams, Bogle, Maddison, Purrington, Oshilaja and others feel unfairly treated by Bowyer and, as a result, are less willing to “run through brick walls” for him. Some of these are better players than others and all of them have their faults, but they’ve all been inexplicably dropped, publicly blamed or had their ability as a footballer insulted.
You could argue that this is a management technique to toughen them up, but it’s interesting that, apart from this week when he criticised Pratley for his sending off, he doesn’t go after the older seasoned pros.
How many times has he publicly criticised Pearce? Pratley? Gunter? Watson? They’ve all made fuck ups this season, but the comments have all been about “sloppy defending” or “losing the player” but no names mentioned.
Williams, on the other hand comes on as sub, pulls out of a couple of tackles and gets humiliated by being subbed 10 mins later and then Bowyer doubles down by slaughtering him to the press. This is a player, remember, who on “Sunderland til I die” admitted to suffering from the mental stresses of football and, in particular, injuries (which he may just have avoided by pulling out of at least one of those challenges).
(Admittedly, Williams played well in his next match, but he then got dropped again!)
The point is, it seems Bowyer wants his senior pros to lead by example - I get that, but I don’t get why he thinks the best way to do that is to protect these senior pros from criticism while lashing out at the rest.
I have my doubts about Bowyer and I think one of his biggest flaws is that he is stubborn. It seems he won’t let go. An admirable quality as a tenacious midfielder, certainly. Almost certainly a useful quality as a manager too, but surely has to be tempered with some pragmatism. He really has to look at what he can improve or change in himself aswell as those around him.
I hope he stays, but I also hope he changes. No, scratch that, not “changes”. Not just like that anyway. I hope he evolves. He’s still young for a manager. There’s hope for him, but that evolution needs to start now.
So rational verses irrational opinions, he deserves the chance to take us to the end of the season but I say that as a 'fair' person rather than with expectation.
Most comments on tactics have already been made but I would add the following.
When they stopped playing him there they won the European Cup, City needed a record number of pints to stop them winning the league, then they won it themselves.
There are reasons you would play a non left back at left back, as a one off, or due to injury or suspensions but because the opposition might play with an inverted winger is not one.
If it is you change it as soon as its bloody obvious he is on the other side anyway.
Regardless I think this discussion has runs its course, dont you... We're never going to agree so why bother trying?
Hence why there was such complaint about Matthews at Left-Back this week and last...
a) he has two left backs avaliable
b) because the opposition might play inverted wingers or
c) so he can play his left back on the right wing?
If the answer is something else it's a totally irrelevant comparison.
Its why I highlighted that particular point from your post... It actually troubles me I've had to spell that out for you
If Maatsen was injured and Purrington wasn’t available then I could at least sympathise with having to play Matthew’s there.
I can’t remember being this baffled about a team selection in any football for yonks.
Our CB's that have been played out of position have conceded 2 penalties and had a sending off.
I've mentioned before how poor we are when retaining the ball under pressure.
We fall to pieces.
It starts from the back. Pratley is absolutely awful at distributing the ball. You never know where it will end up, neither does he.
The midfield are constantly sending even the simplist of ball astray.
And up top we are woeful, especially with Bogle. It's got to the point where if we do manage to get it up to him, it's pretty much coming straight back down our throat.
I think/hope this is a confidence thing.
No professional at any level should be making these kinds of mistakes. It's very very shoddy. It's the simple stuff. The basics that we are getting so wrong at this current moment in time
It brings me onto where we are going and what our actual style is?
Sandgaard has made it clear that we are going to build a sound style of play and it's going to be rolled out from the senior squad right down to the kids. But if you've watched us over the past couple of months you'd really struggle to see how any sort of style can be woven out of chopping and changing mediocre players and playing them out of position.
None for the reason Bowyer played Matthews there.
No one said you can't have a right footed left back, what "we" are saying is it's bloody stupid to play 2 players out of position to nullify a player that didn't even play where you expected him to. No one would be as critical if he didn't have 2 fully fit left backs avalible either.
It was wrong, it was wrong the previous game as well. To repeat it is stupid, to defend it is blind loyalty at best.
The bench will be a little more interesting though
However, Pratley has not been playing well at CH for some time and we also miss him in midfield.
When it clearly wasn't working Oshilaja should have been given a chance, a few games ago and Pratley played in front as the defensive midfielder.
Watson has been disappointing, is clearly too slow and should have been on the bench.
However, no one can keep making the same mistakes week after week and Bowyer is doing so.
Curbs spoke more sense pre match than Bowyer has for a long time.
I appreciate that when things aren't working you need to try something different.
But when you are making things worse, you need to recognise it.
As Curbs said before the game, you need a settled side.
As Curbs uses to say quite often when he was manager.
If it's all going wrong then you need to go back to basics.
Lee needs to play the players in their correct positions.
He needs to keep a settled team.
He needs to forget his pre conceptions/loyalties and play the lads who can win a game of football, not who always puts in the most effort at training or you feel most loyal to, because they agreed to sign in the summer when you were desperate for signings.
Or do you mean different youngsters?