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Where are the goals coming from?

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    I wonder what Sillav Nitram thinks. Let's ask him!
    I wonder what Sillav Nitram thinks. Let's ask him!
    I think maybe Sir Les Patterson was a bit pissed.......
    Teetotaller @golfaddick there were issues with the site last night.
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    Posted this in the transfer rumours thread after everyone was kicking up a stink about not getting a 20 goal striker...

    https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/comment/4075624/#Comment_4075624



    Promoted teams top scorers:

    19/20: 
    Coventry - Matt Godden (14 - 18 or 19 in a full season)
    Rotherham - Freddie Ladapo (14 - 18 or 19 in a full season)
    Wycombe - Adebayo Akinfenwa (10 - 13 or 14 in a full season)

    18/19:
    Luton - James Collins (25)
    Barnsley - Kieffer Moore (17)
    Charlton - Lyle Taylor (21)

    17/18:
    Wigan - Will Grigg (19)
    Blackburn - Bradley Dack (18)
    Rotherham - Kieffer Moore (13)

    Only two of the last nine clubs promoted from this division have had a 20+ goal man in their squad.
    If you look at 2017/18

    Wigan's top scorers were Grigg 19, Powell 15, Jacobs 11
    Blackburn - Dack 18, Graham 17, Mulgrew 14, Armstrong 9
    Rotherham - Moore 13 in half a season (he surely would have got 20 in a full season), then a number of forwards in single figures

    So while nobody got 20, it was pretty close. Do we, like Wigan and Blackburn, have 2 strikers who can get over 15 each?

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    We won’t in my opinion have a 15 - 20 goal player so we need a few to chip in with decent amounts. Bogle 10, Aneke 8, Maddison 10. Smyth 4, JFC, 5, Washington 10, Gilbey 5, and another 15 spread through the team. It all needs to come together pdq. Also just my opinion but we won’t score enough for promotion.
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    Carter said:
    20 a season strikers are rarer than rocking horse shit 

    I'm pretty happy we have some players to choose from, they need to get at least 5 each. Whilst I mainly thought centre forwards just whinged all the time when I was playing it wasn't until I had a season up front that you realise the pressure you are under and the abominable service you get. Spend a game chasing lost causes and having about 5 touches of the ball can wear even the most confident centre forward down its a high turnover position too. Have 3 or 4 games without a goal and people will expect to see you dropped

    Midfielders can play all season as number 8s or wingers and are not really under the same pressure to score. Bowyer has called out Williams and rightly so, hes got high standards and Williams plays very advanced, sees a lot of the ball in those areas so you must see a return wither in final balls or hitting the target 

    I'd back Washington to get at least 5, same for Aneke, Bogle, Maddison and Shinnie there's your 25 goals Doughty I think will be our most prolific player personally once the reigns are taken off him and he's got space ahead to run into 

    We have some players in Forster Caskey, Morgan, Watson and Maddison who can deliver a dead ball well and players who are going to be horrible to defend against attacking said dead balls. Innis, Prattley, Watson, Famewo there's another 7 at least 


    Actually they're not
    They are.  In league 1.  We are in league 1.  Only 1 player has scored 20 league 1 goals twice in the last 5 years. 
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    I want a 40 goal a season striker. Two in fact in case one gets injured. 
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    Cafc43v3r said:
    Carter said:
    20 a season strikers are rarer than rocking horse shit 

    I'm pretty happy we have some players to choose from, they need to get at least 5 each. Whilst I mainly thought centre forwards just whinged all the time when I was playing it wasn't until I had a season up front that you realise the pressure you are under and the abominable service you get. Spend a game chasing lost causes and having about 5 touches of the ball can wear even the most confident centre forward down its a high turnover position too. Have 3 or 4 games without a goal and people will expect to see you dropped

    Midfielders can play all season as number 8s or wingers and are not really under the same pressure to score. Bowyer has called out Williams and rightly so, hes got high standards and Williams plays very advanced, sees a lot of the ball in those areas so you must see a return wither in final balls or hitting the target 

    I'd back Washington to get at least 5, same for Aneke, Bogle, Maddison and Shinnie there's your 25 goals Doughty I think will be our most prolific player personally once the reigns are taken off him and he's got space ahead to run into 

    We have some players in Forster Caskey, Morgan, Watson and Maddison who can deliver a dead ball well and players who are going to be horrible to defend against attacking said dead balls. Innis, Prattley, Watson, Famewo there's another 7 at least 


    Actually they're not
    They are.  In league 1.  We are in league 1.  Only 1 player has scored 20 league 1 goals twice in the last 5 years. 
    That's because their team usually gets promoted OR they move to a higher league though!

    Indeed the nature of L1 is that good teams either get promoted, or regularly lose their best players.
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    The "20 goal a Season" is so last year.
    (Or the year before)

    Cafc struggle to get 20 games a season out of their "strikers".
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    20 goal striker would probably get you promotion. 
    Our target at the moment is a top six place, which will be fantastic achievement given our recent past. I think we will achieve that with an even rub of the green but it will require a lot of hard work.
    Some of our supporters need to reign in their expectations. They are not realistic.
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    The midfield needs to score goals, and we've got strikers who should allow them to do that. Bradley Dack got 18 from midfield in this division, so a midfielder for us, who are encouraged to bomb on should be aiming for high single figures. As for the strikers, happy if a couple of them get to double figures, but the midfield needs to step up. 
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    Cafc43v3r said:
    Carter said:
    20 a season strikers are rarer than rocking horse shit 

    I'm pretty happy we have some players to choose from, they need to get at least 5 each. Whilst I mainly thought centre forwards just whinged all the time when I was playing it wasn't until I had a season up front that you realise the pressure you are under and the abominable service you get. Spend a game chasing lost causes and having about 5 touches of the ball can wear even the most confident centre forward down its a high turnover position too. Have 3 or 4 games without a goal and people will expect to see you dropped

    Midfielders can play all season as number 8s or wingers and are not really under the same pressure to score. Bowyer has called out Williams and rightly so, hes got high standards and Williams plays very advanced, sees a lot of the ball in those areas so you must see a return wither in final balls or hitting the target 

    I'd back Washington to get at least 5, same for Aneke, Bogle, Maddison and Shinnie there's your 25 goals Doughty I think will be our most prolific player personally once the reigns are taken off him and he's got space ahead to run into 

    We have some players in Forster Caskey, Morgan, Watson and Maddison who can deliver a dead ball well and players who are going to be horrible to defend against attacking said dead balls. Innis, Prattley, Watson, Famewo there's another 7 at least 


    Actually they're not
    They are.  In league 1.  We are in league 1.  Only 1 player has scored 20 league 1 goals twice in the last 5 years. 
    That's because their team usually gets promoted OR they move to a higher league though!

    Indeed the nature of L1 is that good teams either get promoted, or regularly lose their best players.
    Which means we aren't going to be able to buy a striker who has scored 20 goals in a league 1 season.  Because they either currently play in the championship, or even the Premier league, or they aren't the player they were due to age, injury etc.

    Of course past performance can be used to predict future performance but 5 games into the 18/19 season we didn't have a "20 goal a season striker" yet by Christmas we had 2. 

    Bogle, Washington and Aneke have more "pedigree" than a lot of people on that list had before their "break out season".  Indeed they have all had "better careers" than Taylor had had at that age. 

    BWPs goal scoring record in the championship showed no indication he would score 20 goals in consecutive seasons in league 1.  Before he got relegated with Plymouth his best return was 8 in 39.  If we signed someone with that record people would be totally underwhelmed. 
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    edited October 2020
    Redrobo said:
    20 goal striker would probably get you promotion. 
    Our target at the moment is a top six place, which will be fantastic achievement given our recent past. I think we will achieve that with an even rub of the green but it will require a lot of hard work.
    Some of our supporters need to reign in their expectations. They are not realistic.
    I still maintain, the view that it will take 3-4 transfer windows (1 gone) for Lee to get the squad he wants.
  • Options
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Carter said:
    20 a season strikers are rarer than rocking horse shit 

    I'm pretty happy we have some players to choose from, they need to get at least 5 each. Whilst I mainly thought centre forwards just whinged all the time when I was playing it wasn't until I had a season up front that you realise the pressure you are under and the abominable service you get. Spend a game chasing lost causes and having about 5 touches of the ball can wear even the most confident centre forward down its a high turnover position too. Have 3 or 4 games without a goal and people will expect to see you dropped

    Midfielders can play all season as number 8s or wingers and are not really under the same pressure to score. Bowyer has called out Williams and rightly so, hes got high standards and Williams plays very advanced, sees a lot of the ball in those areas so you must see a return wither in final balls or hitting the target 

    I'd back Washington to get at least 5, same for Aneke, Bogle, Maddison and Shinnie there's your 25 goals Doughty I think will be our most prolific player personally once the reigns are taken off him and he's got space ahead to run into 

    We have some players in Forster Caskey, Morgan, Watson and Maddison who can deliver a dead ball well and players who are going to be horrible to defend against attacking said dead balls. Innis, Prattley, Watson, Famewo there's another 7 at least 


    Actually they're not
    They are.  In league 1.  We are in league 1.  Only 1 player has scored 20 league 1 goals twice in the last 5 years. 
    That's because their team usually gets promoted OR they move to a higher league though!

    Indeed the nature of L1 is that good teams either get promoted, or regularly lose their best players.
    Which means we aren't going to be able to buy a striker who has scored 20 goals in a league 1 season.  Because they either currently play in the championship, or even the Premier league, or they aren't the player they were due to age, injury etc.

    Of course past performance can be used to predict future performance but 5 games into the 18/19 season we didn't have a "20 goal a season striker" yet by Christmas we had 2. 

    Bogle, Washington and Aneke have more "pedigree" than a lot of people on that list had before their "break out season".  Indeed they have all had "better careers" than Taylor had had at that age. 

    BWPs goal scoring record in the championship showed no indication he would score 20 goals in consecutive seasons in league 1.  Before he got relegated with Plymouth his best return was 8 in 39.  If we signed someone with that record people would be totally underwhelmed. 
    BWP  wasn't a Championship goalscorer - after his maturity in the US he no doubt would have been - and he struggled to score when we went up. BUT when he signed him he had already shown he was going to score heavily in L1 - 13 in 17 for Plymouth before we signed him in January. 

    It doesn't always come true (e.g. Nicky Ajose) but recent goal scoring form generally counts for more than performance 4 or 5 years ago, as players improve or decline. Taylor got 14 goals the previous season in a poor Wimbledon side who only scored 47 all season; in a better side it wasn't hard to see him scoring 20 goals
  • Options
    Posted this in the transfer rumours thread after everyone was kicking up a stink about not getting a 20 goal striker...

    https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/comment/4075624/#Comment_4075624



    Promoted teams top scorers:

    19/20: 
    Coventry - Matt Godden (14 - 18 or 19 in a full season)
    Rotherham - Freddie Ladapo (14 - 18 or 19 in a full season)
    Wycombe - Adebayo Akinfenwa (10 - 13 or 14 in a full season)

    18/19:
    Luton - James Collins (25)
    Barnsley - Kieffer Moore (17)
    Charlton - Lyle Taylor (21)

    17/18:
    Wigan - Will Grigg (19)
    Blackburn - Bradley Dack (18)
    Rotherham - Kieffer Moore (13)

    Only two of the last nine clubs promoted from this division have had a 20+ goal man in their squad.
    If you look at 2017/18

    Wigan's top scorers were Grigg 19, Powell 15, Jacobs 11
    Blackburn - Dack 18, Graham 17, Mulgrew 14, Armstrong 9
    Rotherham - Moore 13 in half a season (he surely would have got 20 in a full season), then a number of forwards in single figures

    So while nobody got 20, it was pretty close. Do we, like Wigan and Blackburn, have 2 strikers who can get over 15 each?

    More to the point to we have the midfielders to chip in with 20-30 goals between them as indicated in some earlier posts. It's all fine & dandy saying "we don't need a 20 goal a season striker as x, y & a can score from midfield" but we just don't have those midfielders. Williams has yet to score for us, Smyth's record is paltry & Gilbey is not  prolific. Looks like we are putting everything on Maddisons  shoulders.....and he's currently injured  !!!

    I will change my tune when we start beating teams by 3 or 4 & midfielders are shooting & scoring from distance. Until then its same old same old.
  • Options
    The goals are incredibly important, bit in the 17/18 season Oldham who avoided relegation who were 21st ( one above relegation to spell it out) scored the same as us in 6th.

    So this discussion is going on with three threads now because we have some confidence following Saturday we have sorted the most important issue to do well in this league is DEFENCE. 

    what I would say though is the championship survival is about being able to score. 

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    Bradley Wright-Phillips was Jettisoned too soon when we were promoted. He scored a cracker against Sheffield Wednesday and became a prolific scorer in the states.
    Different standard but if Henry was playing there, even pass his best, then mid to low championship was the quality.

    Unfortunately BWP did admit he wasn't dedicated at Cafc and it was only going to New York and seeing the senior professionals there that he improved his atutude.
  • Options
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Carter said:
    20 a season strikers are rarer than rocking horse shit 

    I'm pretty happy we have some players to choose from, they need to get at least 5 each. Whilst I mainly thought centre forwards just whinged all the time when I was playing it wasn't until I had a season up front that you realise the pressure you are under and the abominable service you get. Spend a game chasing lost causes and having about 5 touches of the ball can wear even the most confident centre forward down its a high turnover position too. Have 3 or 4 games without a goal and people will expect to see you dropped

    Midfielders can play all season as number 8s or wingers and are not really under the same pressure to score. Bowyer has called out Williams and rightly so, hes got high standards and Williams plays very advanced, sees a lot of the ball in those areas so you must see a return wither in final balls or hitting the target 

    I'd back Washington to get at least 5, same for Aneke, Bogle, Maddison and Shinnie there's your 25 goals Doughty I think will be our most prolific player personally once the reigns are taken off him and he's got space ahead to run into 

    We have some players in Forster Caskey, Morgan, Watson and Maddison who can deliver a dead ball well and players who are going to be horrible to defend against attacking said dead balls. Innis, Prattley, Watson, Famewo there's another 7 at least 


    Actually they're not
    They are.  In league 1.  We are in league 1.  Only 1 player has scored 20 league 1 goals twice in the last 5 years. 
    That's because their team usually gets promoted OR they move to a higher league though!

    Indeed the nature of L1 is that good teams either get promoted, or regularly lose their best players.
    Which means we aren't going to be able to buy a striker who has scored 20 goals in a league 1 season.  Because they either currently play in the championship, or even the Premier league, or they aren't the player they were due to age, injury etc.

    Of course past performance can be used to predict future performance but 5 games into the 18/19 season we didn't have a "20 goal a season striker" yet by Christmas we had 2. 

    Bogle, Washington and Aneke have more "pedigree" than a lot of people on that list had before their "break out season".  Indeed they have all had "better careers" than Taylor had had at that age. 

    BWPs goal scoring record in the championship showed no indication he would score 20 goals in consecutive seasons in league 1.  Before he got relegated with Plymouth his best return was 8 in 39.  If we signed someone with that record people would be totally underwhelmed. 
    BWP  wasn't a Championship goalscorer - after his maturity in the US he no doubt would have been - and he struggled to score when we went up. BUT when he signed him he had already shown he was going to score heavily in L1 - 13 in 17 for Plymouth before we signed him in January. 

    It doesn't always come true (e.g. Nicky Ajose) but recent goal scoring form generally counts for more than performance 4 or 5 years ago, as players improve or decline. Taylor got 14 goals the previous season in a poor Wimbledon side who only scored 47 all season; in a better side it wasn't hard to see him scoring 20 goals
    Which is my point.  We signed him from. Plymouth were he had scored 13 in 17 but the season before that he scored 4 in 15.  Before he played in league 1 he had 26 in 126 in the championship.  Almost bob on 1 in 5.

    When we signed him he was, in no way, a proven goal scorer.

    Bogle and Washington have had good goal scoring seasons, all be it in league 2 for Bogle.  They both have more goals in the bank than Taylor or BWP had, when we signed them, so I am not sure why people are so convinced they won't score goals. 
  • Options
    Posted this in the transfer rumours thread after everyone was kicking up a stink about not getting a 20 goal striker...

    https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/comment/4075624/#Comment_4075624



    Promoted teams top scorers:

    19/20: 
    Coventry - Matt Godden (14 - 18 or 19 in a full season)
    Rotherham - Freddie Ladapo (14 - 18 or 19 in a full season)
    Wycombe - Adebayo Akinfenwa (10 - 13 or 14 in a full season)

    18/19:
    Luton - James Collins (25)
    Barnsley - Kieffer Moore (17)
    Charlton - Lyle Taylor (21)

    17/18:
    Wigan - Will Grigg (19)
    Blackburn - Bradley Dack (18)
    Rotherham - Kieffer Moore (13)

    Only two of the last nine clubs promoted from this division have had a 20+ goal man in their squad.
    If you look at 2017/18

    Wigan's top scorers were Grigg 19, Powell 15, Jacobs 11
    Blackburn - Dack 18, Graham 17, Mulgrew 14, Armstrong 9
    Rotherham - Moore 13 in half a season (he surely would have got 20 in a full season), then a number of forwards in single figures

    So while nobody got 20, it was pretty close. Do we, like Wigan and Blackburn, have 2 strikers who can get over 15 each?

    More to the point to we have the midfielders to chip in with 20-30 goals between them as indicated in some earlier posts. It's all fine & dandy saying "we don't need a 20 goal a season striker as x, y & a can score from midfield" but we just don't have those midfielders. Williams has yet to score for us, Smyth's record is paltry & Gilbey is not  prolific. Looks like we are putting everything on Maddisons  shoulders.....and he's currently injured  !!!

    I will change my tune when we start beating teams by 3 or 4 & midfielders are shooting & scoring from distance. Until then its same old same old.
    When have we had a same old? We get a new squad every year.
  • Options
    edited October 2020
    I’m not saying they will, but Maddison, Bogle, Aneke and Washington all have it in their locker to score 15 goals a season in this league. 

    Knowing our luck, it’ll be 15 goals between them
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  • Options
    Bradley Wright-Phillips was Jettisoned too soon when we were promoted. He scored a cracker against Sheffield Wednesday and became a prolific scorer in the states.
    Different standard but if Henry was playing there, even pass his best, then mid to low championship was the quality.

    Unfortunately BWP did admit he wasn't dedicated at Cafc and it was only going to New York and seeing the senior professionals there that he improved his atutude.
    Have to disagree on that. BWP went through phases where he didn't score. He didn't score in 12 games in League One, where we could afford for him not to because we were so good, but he scored one goal in 19 in the Championship and that just can't be your main striker. He scored against Leicester in our second game and then didn't score again for us. He had one unfairly ruled out against Palace which we'll never know the full effect of, but we really picked up when we dropped BWP and started using Danny Haynes who hit a real purple patch in the brief moments between his hamstrings exploding. Him, Hulse, Fuller and Kermorgant all offered a lot more that season. BWP needed that loan out back down to L1 and by then there wasn't really a way to keep him, especially given our money troubles. He's gone on to do brilliantly but we needed to take him out when we did. Sometimes a player just hits a point where he's not working out for you anymore and I think BWP hit that point with us
  • Options
    Posted this in the transfer rumours thread after everyone was kicking up a stink about not getting a 20 goal striker...

    https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/comment/4075624/#Comment_4075624



    Promoted teams top scorers:

    19/20: 
    Coventry - Matt Godden (14 - 18 or 19 in a full season)
    Rotherham - Freddie Ladapo (14 - 18 or 19 in a full season)
    Wycombe - Adebayo Akinfenwa (10 - 13 or 14 in a full season)

    18/19:
    Luton - James Collins (25)
    Barnsley - Kieffer Moore (17)
    Charlton - Lyle Taylor (21)

    17/18:
    Wigan - Will Grigg (19)
    Blackburn - Bradley Dack (18)
    Rotherham - Kieffer Moore (13)

    Only two of the last nine clubs promoted from this division have had a 20+ goal man in their squad.
    If you look at 2017/18

    Wigan's top scorers were Grigg 19, Powell 15, Jacobs 11
    Blackburn - Dack 18, Graham 17, Mulgrew 14, Armstrong 9
    Rotherham - Moore 13 in half a season (he surely would have got 20 in a full season), then a number of forwards in single figures

    So while nobody got 20, it was pretty close. Do we, like Wigan and Blackburn, have 2 strikers who can get over 15 each?

    More to the point to we have the midfielders to chip in with 20-30 goals between them as indicated in some earlier posts. It's all fine & dandy saying "we don't need a 20 goal a season striker as x, y & a can score from midfield" but we just don't have those midfielders. Williams has yet to score for us, Smyth's record is paltry & Gilbey is not  prolific. Looks like we are putting everything on Maddisons  shoulders.....and he's currently injured  !!!

    I will change my tune when we start beating teams by 3 or 4 & midfielders are shooting & scoring from distance. Until then its same old same old.
    It will be the "same old" for all the time Bowyer is the manager then.

    We don't take pop shots a reason.  We don't get thrashed (a part from a couple of times the wheels came off last season) neither do we thrash teams.  Bowyer sets his team up in a very methodical way.

    If I was a betting man I would back 2-0 to be our most common scoreline this season.  I would be very surprised if we score, or concede, more than 3 in any league game this season. 
  • Options
    Trouble is do we have a 15 goal a season striker?
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    Trouble is do we have a 15 goal a season striker?
    The truth is no one knows.  I am just amazed by all those that know we don't. 
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    I'm not sure where all the goals are going to come from, but I think we will see a lot of players get their names on the score sheet. Maybe even Johnny Williams! And I want to see us take some teams apart - it's been ages since we won convincingly and we should have a good enough squad for that to start happening.

    When Wigan went up in 2017-18, they looked good and their top scorers were Grigg (19 in the league), Nick Powell (15) and Michael Jacobs (11). Of these only Grigg is a proper striker. 

    While I get that Bowyer is setting us up to be firm defensively, I'd hope we are also going to go on the offensive
  • Options
    Redrobo said:
    20 goal striker would probably get you promotion. 
    Our target at the moment is a top six place, which will be fantastic achievement given our recent past. I think we will achieve that with an even rub of the green but it will require a lot of hard work.
    Some of our supporters need to reign in their expectations. They are not realistic.
    I still maintain, the view that it will take 3-4 transfer windows (1 gone) for Lee to get the squad he wants.
    I think it's only going to get tougher though. I guess players like Amos are going to have to revisit their wage demands, but he's got to be on double the 2k average. Plus lots of our other players too who are on at least 3k. Going to be interesting how it plays out because you're already seeing players having to take wage cuts if they don't get a Championship move. 
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    if one of our forwards say chucks or bogle did the holding up play to bring the second striker in who i guess would be washington or smyth we might have a chance to get one of them to score the 15 or so goals.

    then again i don't know how good any of them are at putting away chances. 
  • Options
    I can see a lot of games being 1-0, 1-1 and 2-1.

    It's what Coventry did last season with Godden getting 14 goals and their next top scorer only had 5 - they only scored 46 goals in 34 games and were still Champions.
    We need a button for agreeing wholeheartedly with a post and hating it at the same time.
    AA you're bang on it's gonna be a season of wins coming from scoring first then "managing the game" as is the truly hateful current fashion
    Even if Smyth, Washington or someone ripped holes in the next few defenses, they'll quickly get snuffed out by cynical 3rd division clogging and the woeful standard of officiating that provides no deterrent.  We've already seen the treatment dished out to Alfie D to nullify his pacey threat.
  • Options
    Cafc43v3r said:
    I have done a bit of fag packed maths.  We all know what impact Mendonca, BWP and Taylor had in their first (full in BWPs case) season.  These are thier records, along with Bogle and Washington's before they signed for us.

    Mendonca 263 games 87 goals 1 in 3.02
    BWP 175 games 41 goals 1 in 4.26
    Taylor 334 games 124 goals 1 in 2.69
    Bogle 263 games 110 goals 1 in 2.39
    Washington 323 goals 102 goals 1 in 3.17

    Intresting. 
    As another comparison, this is Nicky Ajose before we signed him

    193 games 65 goals 1 in 2.96.
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