Said it before and I'll say it again - Belgium are the new version of England from the early 2000s
Plenty of talent but dont ever think they'll win anything, just dont seem able to gel as a squad
We were lucky in the first half, but as we've seen with Charlton under Bowyer, sometimes you need a little bit of luck - We certainly wont ever have an England team that'll blow everyone away tactically like Spain have done in the past so think people should learn to accept that, at times we will have to put up with the odd nitty gritty performance
Mount is one of those players who seems to get maligned by everyone except actual football managers. Scored 7 goals in his first Premier League season despite only being 20 and already has 2 goals in 8 appearances for England.
He drives with the ball, creates space and plays intelligent passes without looking too flashy. He’s still only 21. I think he might be alright.
Sounds like a Lee Bowyer type player.
Wouldn't surprise me if he tried to sign him on loan.
Said it before and I'll say it again - Belgium are the new version of England from the early 2000s
Plenty of talent but dont ever think they'll win anything, just dont seem able to gel as a squad
We were lucky in the first half, but as we've seen with Charlton under Bowyer, sometimes you need a little bit of luck - We certainly wont ever have an England team that'll blow everyone away tactically like Spain have done in the past so think people should learn to accept that, at times we will have to put up with the odd nitty gritty performance
absolutely spot on. We expect an awful lot from our team at all times, with sky high expectancy
This is half the problem. Yes, we won. But that doesn’t ignore the performance.
Southgate is making some poor selection choices. No way should Rice, Henderson and Dier all be starting together.
We were better second half, but still needed a huge deflection to score. I just feel like we’re wasting so much attacking talent with the way we line up.
Only time will tell, but I don’t think Southgate is brave enough, nor creative enough to get us playing the football we could be playing.
This is half the problem. Yes, we won. But that doesn’t ignore the performance.
Southgate is making some poor selection choices. No way should Rice, Henderson and Dier all be starting together.
We were better second half, but still needed a huge deflection to score. I just feel like we’re wasting so much attacking talent with the way we line up.
Only time will tell, but I don’t think Southgate is brave enough, nor creative enough to get us playing the football we could be playing.
I’m trying to get my head around his selection and thinking that he may have looked at what condition the players that played against wales were in. Also factor in we played the world no1 team. Keep it compact and then look to counter. Denmark will sit back against us and perhaps it’ll be a better game for Grealish to try and unlock a defence, especially with Kane likely to start. You do need to be able to change it up in tournament football and playing 3 games in 7 days might be his opportunity.
Mount is the quintessential modern day footballer, pass.....pass......pass.....pass. But Grealish is a throwback he takes people on and is far more dynamic, in a poor performance he can muster something whereas players like Mount look good when the team perform.
I agree that some of the selection decisions are baffling (Dier for Gomez?!), but the expectations/whinging when it comes to England are well overboard.
3 pages of crucifying us on this thread when we were losing/drawing, but the moment we take the lead and win the game the discussion seems to stop dead. Its as if that "top 6" entitled fan mentality seems to take over when England are involved.
I agree that some of the selection decisions are baffling (Dier for Gomez?!), but the expectations/whinging when it comes to England are well overboard.
3 pages of crucifying us on this thread when we were losing/drawing, but the moment we take the lead and win the game the discussion seems to stop dead. Its as if that "top 6" entitled fan mentality seems to take over when England are involved.
We're gonna win the cup, We're gonna win the cup.......etc, etc........!!
Mount is the quintessential modern day footballer, pass.....pass......pass.....pass. But Grealish is a throwback he takes people on and is far more dynamic, in a poor performance he can muster something whereas players like Mount look good when the team perform.
Mount is clearly doing something right as Lampard and Southgate both start him a lot. He's a very good presser and never holds onto the ball for too long. Not saying he should start over Grealish but he is certainly not a bad player and has his place.
Mount is the quintessential modern day footballer, pass.....pass......pass.....pass. But Grealish is a throwback he takes people on and is far more dynamic, in a poor performance he can muster something whereas players like Mount look good when the team perform.
Mount is clearly doing something right as Lampard and Southgate both start him a lot. He's a very good presser and never holds onto the ball for too long. Not saying he should start over Grealish but he is certainly not a bad player and has his place.
True but all I was saying the modern player is all pass and pass and pass, as an older supporter the direct skillfully maverick play of someone like Grealish is a breath of fresh air.
I don’t like that line up at all. Back 5 with Henderson and Rice in midfield is so defensive. Not a big fan of the 5 at the back, we barely have 2 CBs good enough to start let alone 3.
Mount is the quintessential modern day footballer, pass.....pass......pass.....pass. But Grealish is a throwback he takes people on and is far more dynamic, in a poor performance he can muster something whereas players like Mount look good when the team perform.
Mount is clearly doing something right as Lampard and Southgate both start him a lot. He's a very good presser and never holds onto the ball for too long. Not saying he should start over Grealish but he is certainly not a bad player and has his place.
True but all I was saying the modern player is all pass and pass and pass, as an older supporter the direct skillfully maverick play of someone like Grealish is a breath of fresh air.
Grealish is very fun to watch, one of the best players to watch in the EPL and in England's team
I don’t like that line up at all. Back 5 with Henderson and Rice in midfield is so defensive. Not a big fan of the 5 at the back, we barely have 2 CBs good enough to start let alone 3.
I think that’s exactly why we are starting 3.
Can’t remember which former player said it but “you only start 3 at the back if you’re not good enough in a 2”
I don’t like that line up at all. Back 5 with Henderson and Rice in midfield is so defensive. Not a big fan of the 5 at the back, we barely have 2 CBs good enough to start let alone 3.
I think the point being we don’t have centre backs good enough to play in a two and the formation gives our full backs who are excellent in going forward - license to do just that
I don’t like that line up at all. Back 5 with Henderson and Rice in midfield is so defensive. Not a big fan of the 5 at the back, we barely have 2 CBs good enough to start let alone 3.
I think the point being we don’t have centre backs good enough to play in a two and the formation gives our full backs who are excellent in going forward - license to do just that
Whilst I understand that, when you are then playing 2 defensive midfielders on top it's just way too defensive. Saw it against Wales the other night, we sat back and allowed them to dictate the tempo. The optimists will say they didn't create an awful lot and didn't score, but for me it was still poor and with respect to Wales, they're not good enough for us to let them do that.
If you play something like 4231, you can still have the defensive midfielders to cover the full backs. Chilwell is decent going forward but more than capable in a 4, TAA probably better suited to wing-back but rarely starts anyway.
I did put shocking selection, although we got the win i still agree with it and we were very fortunate. A dodgy penalty for us and a massive deflection shouldn't really sugar coat the bigger picture:
-Playing 3 RB, 2 out of position, especially Trippier at LB not a fan at all, i think whilst TAA is RB too this doesn't help, he might be one of the best in the world but this is for Liverpool (IMO) England do not play the same system, i cant really remember any good performances for his country, although i might have forgotten tbf. -Coady is the one England player who plays in a back 3 for his club yet didn't start, Dier has been there but don't feel he should start for England i have always maintained that. Defence is weak AF but i'd start Mags,Coady + Gomez if it mattered and a back 3 with wing backs. -Playing Henderson and Rice together doesn't work, they might individually deserve their place but together i dont see it working, it limits us too much Rice plays backwards and henderson although can be creative he is too defensive to play alongside another DM -Grealish should be in the team, but i am not sure what system he gets in. 3-4-3, he wouldn't really suit as you have Sancho/Steling as the front 3 when fit. 3-5-2 i think he is in the team and would be ahead of Mount/Maddison/ Ali - for me at least, dont really get the Mount hype, he is good but again shouldn't be starting for England. -I get resting Kane as he must be knackered following 4 games in 7 days or whatever it was, Sancho/Foden/Chilwell should all be starting key games. I get punish them but also feel we could have shot ourselves in the foot there
There were positives, i was impressed after going a goal down we turned it around, we did play alot better after 25 minutes and 2nd half we limited their chances. So Southgate does know how to make the changes tactically just i dont agree with the selection mostly.
I don’t like that line up at all. Back 5 with Henderson and Rice in midfield is so defensive. Not a big fan of the 5 at the back, we barely have 2 CBs good enough to start let alone 3.
I think the point being we don’t have centre backs good enough to play in a two and the formation gives our full backs who are excellent in going forward - license to do just that
Whilst I understand that, when you are then playing 2 defensive midfielders on top it's just way too defensive. Saw it against Wales the other night, we sat back and allowed them to dictate the tempo. The optimists will say they didn't create an awful lot and didn't score, but for me it was still poor and with respect to Wales, they're not good enough for us to let them do that.
If you play something like 4231, you can still have the defensive midfielders to cover the full backs. Chilwell is decent going forward but more than capable in a 4, TAA probably better suited to wing-back but rarely starts anyway.
The problem is that we also lack an experienced deeper midfield playmaker who can dictate the tempo of the game. Southgate is a naturally cautious manager, maybe too cautious at times, but the reason he sets up the way he does is to cover for our two deficiencies and play to our main strengths. We have excellent wing-backs, a ridiculous number on the right, superb attacking midfielders/wingers and a top striker. We also have a lot going for us in the holding role in the form of players who can break up play and keep the ball moving. Any international team would love to have Walker, TAA, Trippier and James to choose between, or to have access to Sterling, Snacho, Kane, Mount, Grealish and Rashford. You'd find fewer clamouring to take Dier, Maguire and Mings though. We don't have top good centre backs or a real playmaker so Southgate likes to make sure that the centre halves are properly protected and we can still make the most of our good attackers. The fear with a 4-2-3-1 is while your deeper midfielders can cover the full backs when they get forward, you're still then left with opposition teams getting a run at our centre backs, and even against Wales we looked very vulnerable to players coming at them. You then also have the problem of a gap opening up between defence and attack because there's no deeper midfielder who can link them up effectively and your front four can become isolated. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but I think this is why Southgate sets up the way he does and there's a logic to it. What we really want is for Foden to develop very quickly into a Kevin de Bruyne type player, but that's a lot to ask of a very young player so it's not wise to build our hopes around him
England lose a game unluckily: " We need to finish teams off when we are on top", "We got what we deserved for not taking our chances", "At the end of the day all that matters is the result"
England win a game luckily: "It's just papering over the cracks", "Technically we are miles behind [insert name here]", "Speaking as a roofer from Balsildon, I have far more knowledge than a manager who has reached the semi-finals of two tournaments in four years."
England lose a game unluckily: " We need to finish teams off when we are on top", "We got what we deserved for not taking our chances", "At the end of the day all that matters is the result"
England win a game luckily: "It's just papering over the cracks", "Technically we are miles behind [insert name here]", "Speaking as a roofer from Balsildon, I have far more knowledge than a manager who has reached the semi-finals of two tournaments in four years."
England draw with Denmark or Iceland... "You wouldnt see the Netherlands or Italy doing that"
Both draw 0-0 with Bosnia and Poland respectively
Oh but they know how to play in the actual Tournaments
England lose a game unluckily: " We need to finish teams off when we are on top", "We got what we deserved for not taking our chances", "At the end of the day all that matters is the result"
England win a game luckily: "It's just papering over the cracks", "Technically we are miles behind [insert name here]", "Speaking as a roofer from Balsildon, I have far more knowledge than a manager who has reached the semi-finals of two tournaments in four years."
I get your point, but on paper that team was dog. We started ok first 10 then looked like Belgium were going to steam roller.
We beat the best team (ranking wise) in the world, so thats fair enough and great, but you cant really deny we had the luck.
Yes i am an office bod, i can't really say that i will do better than Southgate, just the two pennies and having an opinion. Not sure they could afford me anyway
I don’t like that line up at all. Back 5 with Henderson and Rice in midfield is so defensive. Not a big fan of the 5 at the back, we barely have 2 CBs good enough to start let alone 3.
I think the point being we don’t have centre backs good enough to play in a two and the formation gives our full backs who are excellent in going forward - license to do just that
Whilst I understand that, when you are then playing 2 defensive midfielders on top it's just way too defensive. Saw it against Wales the other night, we sat back and allowed them to dictate the tempo. The optimists will say they didn't create an awful lot and didn't score, but for me it was still poor and with respect to Wales, they're not good enough for us to let them do that.
If you play something like 4231, you can still have the defensive midfielders to cover the full backs. Chilwell is decent going forward but more than capable in a 4, TAA probably better suited to wing-back but rarely starts anyway.
The problem is that we also lack an experienced deeper midfield playmaker who can dictate the tempo of the game. Southgate is a naturally cautious manager, maybe too cautious at times, but the reason he sets up the way he does is to cover for our two deficiencies and play to our main strengths. We have excellent wing-backs, a ridiculous number on the right, superb attacking midfielders/wingers and a top striker. We also have a lot going for us in the holding role in the form of players who can break up play and keep the ball moving. Any international team would love to have Walker, TAA, Trippier and James to choose between, or to have access to Sterling, Snacho, Kane, Mount, Grealish and Rashford. You'd find fewer clamouring to take Dier, Maguire and Mings though. We don't have top good centre backs or a real playmaker so Southgate likes to make sure that the centre halves are properly protected and we can still make the most of our good attackers. The fear with a 4-2-3-1 is while your deeper midfielders can cover the full backs when they get forward, you're still then left with opposition teams getting a run at our centre backs, and even against Wales we looked very vulnerable to players coming at them. You then also have the problem of a gap opening up between defence and attack because there's no deeper midfielder who can link them up effectively and your front four can become isolated. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but I think this is why Southgate sets up the way he does and there's a logic to it. What we really want is for Foden to develop very quickly into a Kevin de Bruyne type player, but that's a lot to ask of a very young player so it's not wise to build our hopes around him
Agree on the excellent wing backs down the right but (despite Southgate's attempts yesterday) you can only play one of them. We don't have a playmaker because Southgate isn't giving them minutes.
I don't agree we need a midfielder like De Bruyne. Games against teams like Wales having say Henderson and Phillips as the two CM's with a front 4 of Grealish, Sancho, Sterling and Kane would work. We should be dominating those games so you can let the front 4 do their thing with support from the CM's and FB's. It then also works against the better teams because you have the pace to counter, but also the defensive is protected by the midfield. Every formation has it's risks, otherwise everybody would be playing exactly the same one and I do accept the fact that when the full backs are forward it can leave us slightly vulnerable. My concern if we proceed with a 523 ish formation that we're just going to let the better teams dictate the play. We won't be in the game and it's a tough ask to then just change it up if you're 1-0 down. It's very reliant on getting lucky or being absolutely sound defensively and nicking a goal. That's a lot easier to do against someone like Wales than it will be against Brazil or Germany.
Comments
Plenty of talent but dont ever think they'll win anything, just dont seem able to gel as a squad
We were lucky in the first half, but as we've seen with Charlton under Bowyer, sometimes you need a little bit of luck - We certainly wont ever have an England team that'll blow everyone away tactically like Spain have done in the past so think people should learn to accept that, at times we will have to put up with the odd nitty gritty performance
Wouldn't surprise me if he tried to sign him on loan.
Southgate is making some poor selection choices. No way should Rice, Henderson and Dier all be starting together.
Only time will tell, but I don’t think Southgate is brave enough, nor creative enough to get us playing the football we could be playing.
3 pages of crucifying us on this thread when we were losing/drawing, but the moment we take the lead and win the game the discussion seems to stop dead. Its as if that "top 6" entitled fan mentality seems to take over when England are involved.
Walker was a class above.
Pickford
TAA
Walker
Gomez
Maguire?
Chilwell
Henderson
Rice
Sancho / Foden
Kane
Sterling
Pope / Henderson
Coady
Smalling should be there on form for Roma
Grealish
Mount
Rashford
Calvert-Lewin
Abraham
We just never seem to bloody play that line up. Just play them a few games in a row to build up a club style mentality.
think the 23 man euro squad should on the whole be pretty straightforward.
If you play something like 4231, you can still have the defensive midfielders to cover the full backs. Chilwell is decent going forward but more than capable in a 4, TAA probably better suited to wing-back but rarely starts anyway.
-Playing 3 RB, 2 out of position, especially Trippier at LB not a fan at all, i think whilst TAA is RB too this doesn't help, he might be one of the best in the world but this is for Liverpool (IMO) England do not play the same system, i cant really remember any good performances for his country, although i might have forgotten tbf.
-Coady is the one England player who plays in a back 3 for his club yet didn't start, Dier has been there but don't feel he should start for England i have always maintained that. Defence is weak AF but i'd start Mags,Coady + Gomez if it mattered and a back 3 with wing backs.
-Playing Henderson and Rice together doesn't work, they might individually deserve their place but together i dont see it working, it limits us too much Rice plays backwards and henderson although can be creative he is too defensive to play alongside another DM
-Grealish should be in the team, but i am not sure what system he gets in. 3-4-3, he wouldn't really suit as you have Sancho/Steling as the front 3 when fit. 3-5-2 i think he is in the team and would be ahead of Mount/Maddison/ Ali - for me at least, dont really get the Mount hype, he is good but again shouldn't be starting for England.
-I get resting Kane as he must be knackered following 4 games in 7 days or whatever it was, Sancho/Foden/Chilwell should all be starting key games. I get punish them but also feel we could have shot ourselves in the foot there
There were positives, i was impressed after going a goal down we turned it around, we did play alot better after 25 minutes and 2nd half we limited their chances. So Southgate does know how to make the changes tactically just i dont agree with the selection mostly.
Sorry for the TLDR
_________Pope___________
Gomez-Coady- Maguire
Trippier-----Chilwell
_____Henderson-Winks___
Sancho - Kane- Sterling
3-3-1-3
Pope
Gomez-Coady-Maguire
TAA ----Henderson---Chilwell
_______Grealish____
Sancho-Kane-Sterling
Looks solid to me both teams, you could argue for a few changes of course
England win a game luckily: "It's just papering over the cracks", "Technically we are miles behind [insert name here]", "Speaking as a roofer from Balsildon, I have far more knowledge than a manager who has reached the semi-finals of two tournaments in four years."
Both draw 0-0 with Bosnia and Poland respectively
Oh but they know how to play in the actual Tournaments
TAA Gomez Coady Chilwell
Henderson Foden
Sancho. Grealish. Sterling
Kane
We beat the best team (ranking wise) in the world, so thats fair enough and great, but you cant really deny we had the luck.
Yes i am an office bod, i can't really say that i will do better than Southgate, just the two pennies and having an opinion. Not sure they could afford me anyway
I don't agree we need a midfielder like De Bruyne. Games against teams like Wales having say Henderson and Phillips as the two CM's with a front 4 of Grealish, Sancho, Sterling and Kane would work. We should be dominating those games so you can let the front 4 do their thing with support from the CM's and FB's. It then also works against the better teams because you have the pace to counter, but also the defensive is protected by the midfield. Every formation has it's risks, otherwise everybody would be playing exactly the same one and I do accept the fact that when the full backs are forward it can leave us slightly vulnerable. My concern if we proceed with a 523 ish formation that we're just going to let the better teams dictate the play. We won't be in the game and it's a tough ask to then just change it up if you're 1-0 down. It's very reliant on getting lucky or being absolutely sound defensively and nicking a goal. That's a lot easier to do against someone like Wales than it will be against Brazil or Germany.