5 year minimum sentence for carrying would deter them. Fuck the monetary cost, build the prisons and fill them.
How many prisons and where?
As many as needed and all over.
A person inside for 5 years for carrying a knife is guaranteed to not kill someone on the street for 5 years. If you know you are going in for 5 years no questions it will surely be a deterrent.
If they are sentenced to 5 years, they will be out in about 2 years
5 year minimum sentence for carrying would deter them. Fuck the monetary cost, build the prisons and fill them.
How many prisons and where?
As many as needed and all over.
A person inside for 5 years for carrying a knife is guaranteed to not kill someone on the street for 5 years. If you know you are going in for 5 years no questions it will surely be a deterrent.
If they are sentenced to 5 years, they will be out in about 2 years
A lot of those carrying knives are kids so it will require a complete rethink of our criminal justice system to imprison children on an industrial scale. How would they be changed when they came out?
I can't see any evidence of this strategy working anywhere?
The majority of stabbing victims in London are Black kids. The majority of stabbing attackers are Black kids. When the police attempt to stop and search Black kids, they are branded racist. Some day Black society will have to wake up to reality.
I know these facts will upset the lefty pinko snowflake section of Charlton life. But someday you will have to wake up to reality to.
Throw your insults at me as much as you like, they will not change facts.
I think that trained medical staff need to go into inner city schools and explain to 12 and 13 year olds how easy it is to hit a vital organ or artery when using a knife on someone which will almost certainly result in their death. I suspect that a great number of perpetrators don’t intend to kill their victims and if they knew how easy it is to stab or slash someone in the wrong place then they may just think twice....maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part but it’s worth a shout. I wonder.
The people that commit these crimes dont give a shit. They are utter scumbags...if they do get caught they only serve a short sentence and are let back out in to society to do it again.
As much as people rant and rave nobody has come up with a solution to knife crime whatever their political persuasion is. I know a lot of people involved in youth work and numerous strategies have been tried. There is no simple solution but I do think policing is failing in a lot of areas as there are either not enough resources or they're not being used effectively.
The gang and drugs problem seems to keep growing and that's evident in towns as well as cities.
In the many cases it starts with their upbringing. I'm certainly not one who thinks "society is to blame", ultimately the individuals are responsible and know exactly what they are choosing. But from a London perspective it's still the case that the majority of assailants and their victims in regards to stabbings and shootings are from the gang culture. The statistics (and experience) show that most stabbers/major gang members are from broken homes or homes with parents who are scum themselves. It also can't be a coincidence that the majority of these people are from a section of society that also has the highest rate of absent father single parent families and the highest rate of fathers have the most children by multiple different women.
Social issues are a complex one and until these, and other, social issues get sorted somehow (and that includes these sections of society admitting their behaviour and not looking to blame everyone else and history and the authorities), I can't see how authorities are supposed to miraculously come up with an answer to dealing with the consequences?
The majority of stabbing victims in London are Black kids. The majority of stabbing attackers are Black kids. When the police attempt to stop and search Black kids, they are branded racist. Some day Black society will have to wake up to reality.
I know these facts will upset the lefty pinko snowflake section of Charlton life. But someday you will have to wake up to reality to.
Throw your insults at me as much as you like, they will not change facts.
The majority of stabbing victims in London are Black kids. The majority of stabbing attackers are Black kids. When the police attempt to stop and search Black kids, they are branded racist. Some day Black society will have to wake up to reality.
I know these facts will upset the lefty pinko snowflake section of Charlton life. But someday you will have to wake up to reality to.
Throw your insults at me as much as you like, they will not change facts.
So the solution is?
Nice use of 'lefty pinko snowflake' !
For a start the dickheads in power need to put more OB on the streets. Not these poxy community liaison officers, proper police. Most of the stabbings are post code gang related, put more police in these estates and effectively shut down the recruiting and dealing that openly takes place within them.
The majority of stabbing victims in London are Black kids. The majority of stabbing attackers are Black kids. When the police attempt to stop and search Black kids, they are branded racist. Some day Black society will have to wake up to reality.
I know these facts will upset the lefty pinko snowflake section of Charlton life. But someday you will have to wake up to reality to.
Throw your insults at me as much as you like, they will not change facts.
So the solution is?
Nice use of 'lefty pinko snowflake' !
For a start the dickheads in power need to put more OB on the streets. Not these poxy community liaison officers, proper police. Most of the stabbings are post code gang related, put more police in these estates and effectively shut down the recruiting and dealing that openly takes place within them.
Definitely agree that we need more visible policing and better intelligence. Gangs are able to operate openly and drug dealing is happening on a large scale.
The Mayor and the Met need to improve policing. If gangs can act so openly and the police have no links within the community it will only get worse.
It will cost to sort it out but if it continues to escalate more will get dragged in.
The majority of stabbing victims in London are Black kids. The majority of stabbing attackers are Black kids. When the police attempt to stop and search Black kids, they are branded racist. Some day Black society will have to wake up to reality.
I know these facts will upset the lefty pinko snowflake section of Charlton life. But someday you will have to wake up to reality to.
Throw your insults at me as much as you like, they will not change facts.
So the solution is?
Nice use of 'lefty pinko snowflake' !
For a start the dickheads in power need to put more OB on the streets. Not these poxy community liaison officers, proper police. Most of the stabbings are post code gang related, put more police in these estates and effectively shut down the recruiting and dealing that openly takes place within them.
This.
The suggestion that we don’t have enough police is insane. Look at the amount of police at football and the amount of football games all over the Country nearly every day.
What’s more important?
1. The occasional ruck at football which very very rarely tragically ends in death or serious injury. In fact, knowing they can actually get at each other and get hurt would deter many anyway.
Or
2. kids being stabbed to death every single week?
Ease of the football a bit, let CCTV take care of that, as it already does very well. Get the more important issue in order and then revert if need be.
No? Why not? Because we are and will forever be the easy target scum and nothing will ever change that. Tragic.
The majority of stabbing victims in London are Black kids. The majority of stabbing attackers are Black kids. When the police attempt to stop and search Black kids, they are branded racist. Some day Black society will have to wake up to reality.
I know these facts will upset the lefty pinko snowflake section of Charlton life. But someday you will have to wake up to reality to.
Throw your insults at me as much as you like, they will not change facts.
So the solution is?
Nice use of 'lefty pinko snowflake' !
For a start the dickheads in power need to put more OB on the streets. Not these poxy community liaison officers, proper police. Most of the stabbings are post code gang related, put more police in these estates and effectively shut down the recruiting and dealing that openly takes place within them.
This.
The suggestion that we don’t have enough police in insane. Look at the amount of police at football and the amount of football games all over the Country nearly every day.
What’s more important?
1. The occasional ruck at football which very very rarely tragically ends in death or serious injury. In fact, knowing they can actually get at each other and get hurt would deter many anyway.
Or
2. kids being stabbed to death every single week?
Ease of the football a bit, let CCTV take care of that, as it already does very well. Get the more important issue in order and then revert if need be.
The majority of stabbing victims in London are Black kids. The majority of stabbing attackers are Black kids. When the police attempt to stop and search Black kids, they are branded racist. Some day Black society will have to wake up to reality.
I know these facts will upset the lefty pinko snowflake section of Charlton life. But someday you will have to wake up to reality to.
Throw your insults at me as much as you like, they will not change facts.
So the solution is?
Nice use of 'lefty pinko snowflake' !
For a start the dickheads in power need to put more OB on the streets. Not these poxy community liaison officers, proper police. Most of the stabbings are post code gang related, put more police in these estates and effectively shut down the recruiting and dealing that openly takes place within them.
This.
The suggestion that we don’t have enough police in insane. Look at the amount of police at football and the amount of football games all over the Country nearly every day.
What’s more important?
1. The occasional ruck at football which very very rarely tragically ends in death or serious injury. In fact, knowing they can actually get at each other and get hurt would deter many anyway.
Or
2. kids being stabbed to death every single week?
Ease of the football a bit, let CCTV take care of that, as it already does very well. Get the more important issue in order and then revert if need be.
Very rarely see police on the street.
At the football?? Seriously? They’re bloody everywhere. Outside of the relatively safe bubble (most times) of the valley there must be thousands policing football every weekend.
Why would you want to lock up law abiding teenagers?
Aghem......I think there may be a whoosh coming your way!
I was playing devils advocate as Hoofy obviously doesn’t t agree with locking up any knife carriers no ifs no buts.
Given the number of kids carrying knives I don't think locking them up is a practical or workable solution. It would require a massive change in the law, cost a fortune and I don't see how it would work.
The gang culture needs to be addressed and I do feel the police need to be more visible in a lot of areas.
I think that trained medical staff need to go into inner city schools and explain to 12 and 13 year olds how easy it is to hit a vital organ or artery when using a knife on someone which will almost certainly result in their death. I suspect that a great number of perpetrators don’t intend to kill their victims and if they knew how easy it is to stab or slash someone in the wrong place then they may just think twice....maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part but it’s worth a shout. I wonder.
Whilst I cannot speak for every school I can say that education on knife crime and personal safety is at the top of the agenda for many schools, certainly the one I work in.
In the last few years we have been visited by the parents of Jimmy Mizen, the parents of Lee Knox, and Doreen Laurence. They all do great work in using their personal experience and the grief and suffering it caused to try and educate youngsters on the impact of committing or being the victim of knife crime.
We have had medical professionals, reformed gang members, community workers, Trident all visit and speak with our students.
It is a huge problem. It seems any messages and education that are given are forgotten once a situation arises on the streets. It is a toughest but to crack but we must all continue the drive to keep educating and informing our young people.
The majority of stabbing victims in London are Black kids. The majority of stabbing attackers are Black kids. When the police attempt to stop and search Black kids, they are branded racist. Some day Black society will have to wake up to reality.
I know these facts will upset the lefty pinko snowflake section of Charlton life. But someday you will have to wake up to reality to.
Throw your insults at me as much as you like, they will not change facts.
It sounds extreme but these kids need the fear. If I acted up as a kid then I was shit scared of my old man. Many of these kids don’t have a father figure so the next stage is the police. I know the police are there to serve and protect but they need also to be respected. There is no authority in these places and as corny as it sounds they need to win back the streets/estates.
Waitrose green st green had about 10 old Bill checking cars the other week. What for I have no idea . No tax ? No insurance? Whatever it was their time could of been better spent elsewhere.
I think that trained medical staff need to go into inner city schools and explain to 12 and 13 year olds how easy it is to hit a vital organ or artery when using a knife on someone which will almost certainly result in their death. I suspect that a great number of perpetrators don’t intend to kill their victims and if they knew how easy it is to stab or slash someone in the wrong place then they may just think twice....maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part but it’s worth a shout. I wonder.
Whilst I cannot speak for every school I can say that education on knife crime and personal safety is at the top of the agenda for many schools, certainly the one I work in.
In the last few years we have been visited by the parents of Jimmy Mizen, the parents of Lee Knox, and Doreen Laurence. They all do great work in using their personal experience and the grief and suffering it caused to try and educate youngsters on the impact of committing or being the victim of knife crime.
We have had medical professionals, reformed gang members, community workers, Trident all visit and speak with our students.
It is a huge problem. It seems any messages and education that are given are forgotten once a situation arises on the streets. It is a toughest but to crack but we must all continue the drive to keep educating and informing our young people.
How do you stop them carrying knives if the education doesn't work? In some areas it seems kids have a nihilistic/fatalistic attitude towards life and expect to witness or be involved in stabbings - it seems almost accepted.
A more visible police presence can perhaps prevent the worst excesses of gangs but this continued acceptance of the use of knives doesn't seem to be changing amongst kids. It's a road to nowhere yet on it goes....
Rather than sniping at each other we should actually harness the great diverse minds on this forum to actually try and come up with a solution. Perhaps if left and right and all in between stopped taking immediate polarised positions in society we could all collectively solve many of the world's ills. Who knows.
My tuppence worth
-More police, and better funding -Male role models and particularly positive male roles models -Sports and activities that build self esteem and release controlled aggression and boost mental health such as boxing and football, rugby or even non sports activities -Stop blaming each other and work together to solve it -Decriminalisation of drugs -Many recreational users of drugs may reconsider the use of drugs if they stop to think about the supply chain and the business it creates and misery it brings here and abroad. No illicit drug trade no rich criminals profiting and no recruiting of youngsters who fall into that life (perfectly demonstrated in The Wire) - Step back from political correctness and have real honest conversations about the root causes of this and stop tiptoeing around issues whilst children continue to kill each other against the backdrop of empty rhetoric from completely removed politicians. This country stood up to and defeated Nazism. We can deal with this with less hand wringing and more action. - Serious prison sentences for those inflicting damage to others with knives - Education from a young young age
The majority of stabbing victims in London are Black kids. The majority of stabbing attackers are Black kids. When the police attempt to stop and search Black kids, they are branded racist. Some day Black society will have to wake up to reality.
I know these facts will upset the lefty pinko snowflake section of Charlton life. But someday you will have to wake up to reality to.
Throw your insults at me as much as you like, they will not change facts.
I note that you haven't actually made a comment on this thread against the stabbings, just a general social one. I can only assume then, going by your very own logic in a previous thread, that you condone people stabbing others and condone people being seriously hurt and killed? I for one think you condoning such behaviour and it's consequences is disgusting.
Chelmsford has had a spike of violent crime. Shootings and stabbings etc. Apparently there are only 3 police cars in operation at any one time. I know correlation doesn't equal causation but the number of OB goes down and violent crime goes up you've got to think there's a link.
Rather than sniping at each other we should actually harness the great diverse minds on this forum to actually try and come up with a solution. Perhaps if left and right and all in between stopped taking immediate polarised positions in society we could all collectively solve many of the world's ills. Who knows.
My tuppence worth
-More police, and better funding -Male role models and particularly positive male roles models -Sports and activities that build self esteem and release controlled aggression and boost mental health such as boxing and football, rugby or even non sports activities -Stop blaming each other and work together to solve it -Decriminalisation of drugs -Many recreational users of drugs may reconsider the use of drugs if they stop to think about the supply chain and the business it creates and misery it brings here and abroad. No illicit drug trade no rich criminals profiting and no recruiting of youngsters who fall into that life (perfectly demonstrated in The Wire) - Step back from political correctness and have real honest conversations about the root causes of this and stop tiptoeing around issues whilst children continue to kill each other against the backdrop of empty rhetoric from completely removed politicians. This country stood up to and defeated Nazism. We can deal with this with less hand wringing and more action. - Serious prison sentences for those inflicting damage to others with knives - Education from a young young age
Right I'm off to heal the world and sing kumbya
Agree with a lot of what you say but do we have politicians willing to invest the resources required. Drugs and gangs have to be dealt with and communities drowning in crime need to make sure their young people are not dragged into it - the less options there are the more attractive crime is.
A lot of recreational drug users aren't willing to address all the crime etc behind the drug trade.
Rather than sniping at each other we should actually harness the great diverse minds on this forum to actually try and come up with a solution. Perhaps if left and right and all in between stopped taking immediate polarised positions in society we could all collectively solve many of the world's ills. Who knows.
My tuppence worth
-More police, and better funding -Male role models and particularly positive male roles models -Sports and activities that build self esteem and release controlled aggression and boost mental health such as boxing and football, rugby or even non sports activities -Stop blaming each other and work together to solve it -Decriminalisation of drugs -Many recreational users of drugs may reconsider the use of drugs if they stop to think about the supply chain and the business it creates and misery it brings here and abroad. No illicit drug trade no rich criminals profiting and no recruiting of youngsters who fall into that life (perfectly demonstrated in The Wire) - Step back from political correctness and have real honest conversations about the root causes of this and stop tiptoeing around issues whilst children continue to kill each other against the backdrop of empty rhetoric from completely removed politicians. This country stood up to and defeated Nazism. We can deal with this with less hand wringing and more action. - Serious prison sentences for those inflicting damage to others with knives - Education from a young young age
Right I'm off to heal the world and sing kumbya
Agree with a lot of what you say but do we have politicians willing to invest the resources required. Drugs and gangs have to be dealt with and communities drowning in crime need to make sure their young people are not dragged into it - the less options there are the more attractive crime is.
A lot of recreational drug users aren't willing to address all the crime etc behind the drug trade.
Imagine what could of been done and set in place with the money from the willy waving month that was London 2012
Rather than sniping at each other we should actually harness the great diverse minds on this forum to actually try and come up with a solution. Perhaps if left and right and all in between stopped taking immediate polarised positions in society we could all collectively solve many of the world's ills. Who knows.
My tuppence worth
-More police, and better funding -Male role models and particularly positive male roles models -Sports and activities that build self esteem and release controlled aggression and boost mental health such as boxing and football, rugby or even non sports activities -Stop blaming each other and work together to solve it -Decriminalisation of drugs -Many recreational users of drugs may reconsider the use of drugs if they stop to think about the supply chain and the business it creates and misery it brings here and abroad. No illicit drug trade no rich criminals profiting and no recruiting of youngsters who fall into that life (perfectly demonstrated in The Wire) - Step back from political correctness and have real honest conversations about the root causes of this and stop tiptoeing around issues whilst children continue to kill each other against the backdrop of empty rhetoric from completely removed politicians. This country stood up to and defeated Nazism. We can deal with this with less hand wringing and more action. - Serious prison sentences for those inflicting damage to others with knives - Education from a young young age
Right I'm off to heal the world and sing kumbya
Agree with a lot of what you say but do we have politicians willing to invest the resources required. Drugs and gangs have to be dealt with and communities drowning in crime need to make sure their young people are not dragged into it - the less options there are the more attractive crime is.
A lot of recreational drug users aren't willing to address all the crime etc behind the drug trade.
Imagine what could of been done and set in place with the money from the willy waving month that was London 2012
The perpetrators of the vast majority of 'knife crimes' (i.e. stabbing & slashing people) and related crimes like muggings, moped raids and drug dealing, are committed by very young men who in all likelihood will never hold a 'proper job' or contribute to 'society' in any meaningful way. They will forever be dangerous parasites and their offspring in all likelihood will tread the same criminal pathways. The social security system will not be able to provide enough cash for these 'outsiders' to consider changing their ways through what might be considered state sponsored bribery.
Is there the political will to deal with this or will the government PR machines attempt to convince that all is well and this is just a 'phase we re going through' ?
The perpetrators of the vast majority of 'knife crimes' (i.e. stabbing & slashing people) and related crimes like muggings, moped raids and drug dealing, are committed by very young men who in all likelihood will never hold a 'proper job' or contribute to 'society' in any meaningful way. They will forever be dangerous parasites and their offspring in all likelihood will tread the same criminal pathways. The social security system will not be able to provide enough cash for these 'outsiders' to consider changing their ways through what might be considered state sponsored bribery.
Is there the political will to deal with this or will the government PR machines attempt to convince that all is well and this is just a 'phase we re going through' ?
There doesn't seem to be much appetite to address this across the political spectrum. Anti-social behaviour seems to be becoming increasingly normalised - if it is a phase it shows no signs of fizzling out.
Posting this again as everyone ignored it but people want solutions and keep saying we need more police.
Would this not help, even if it doesn’t change the world?
The suggestion that we don’t have enough police is insane. Look at the amount of police at football and the amount of football games all over the Country nearly every day.
What’s more important?
1. The occasional ruck at football which very very rarely tragically ends in death or serious injury. In fact, knowing they can actually get at each other and get hurt would deter many anyway.
Or
2. kids being stabbed to death every single week?
Ease of the football a bit, let CCTV take care of that, as it already does very well. Get the more important issue in order and then revert if need be.
No? Why not? Because we are and will forever be the easy target scum and nothing will ever change that. Tragic.
Comments
I can't see any evidence of this strategy working anywhere?
When the police attempt to stop and search Black kids, they are branded racist.
Some day Black society will have to wake up to reality.
I know these facts will upset the lefty pinko snowflake section of Charlton life. But someday you will have to wake up to reality to.
Throw your insults at me as much as you like, they will not change facts.
I'm certainly not one who thinks "society is to blame", ultimately the individuals are responsible and know exactly what they are choosing. But from a London perspective it's still the case that the majority of assailants and their victims in regards to stabbings and shootings are from the gang culture. The statistics (and experience) show that most stabbers/major gang members are from broken homes or homes with parents who are scum themselves. It also can't be a coincidence that the majority of these people are from a section of society that also has the highest rate of absent father single parent families and the highest rate of fathers have the most children by multiple different women.
Social issues are a complex one and until these, and other, social issues get sorted somehow (and that includes these sections of society admitting their behaviour and not looking to blame everyone else and history and the authorities), I can't see how authorities are supposed to miraculously come up with an answer to dealing with the consequences?
Nice use of 'lefty pinko snowflake' !
The Mayor and the Met need to improve policing. If gangs can act so openly and the police have no links within the community it will only get worse.
It will cost to sort it out but if it continues to escalate more will get dragged in.
The suggestion that we don’t have enough police is insane. Look at the amount of police at football and the amount of football games all over the Country nearly every day.
What’s more important?
1. The occasional ruck at football which very very rarely tragically ends in death or serious injury. In fact, knowing they can actually get at each other and get hurt would deter many anyway.
Or
2. kids being stabbed to death every single week?
Ease of the football a bit, let CCTV take care of that, as it already does very well. Get the more important issue in order and then revert if need be.
No? Why not? Because we are and will forever be the easy target scum and nothing will ever change that. Tragic.
The gang culture needs to be addressed and I do feel the police need to be more visible in a lot of areas.
In the last few years we have been visited by the parents of Jimmy Mizen, the parents of Lee Knox, and Doreen Laurence. They all do great work in using their personal experience and the grief and suffering it caused to try and educate youngsters on the impact of committing or being the victim of knife crime.
We have had medical professionals, reformed gang members, community workers, Trident all visit and speak with our students.
It is a huge problem. It seems any messages and education that are given are forgotten once a situation arises on the streets. It is a toughest but to crack but we must all continue the drive to keep educating and informing our young people.
What for I have no idea .
No tax ?
No insurance?
Whatever it was their time could of been better spent elsewhere.
A more visible police presence can perhaps prevent the worst excesses of gangs but this continued acceptance of the use of knives doesn't seem to be changing amongst kids. It's a road to nowhere yet on it goes....
My tuppence worth
-More police, and better funding
-Male role models and particularly positive male roles models
-Sports and activities that build self esteem and release controlled aggression and boost mental health such as boxing and football, rugby or even non sports activities
-Stop blaming each other and work together to solve it
-Decriminalisation of drugs
-Many recreational users of drugs may reconsider the use of drugs if they stop to think about the supply chain and the business it creates and misery it brings here and abroad. No illicit drug trade no rich criminals profiting and no recruiting of youngsters who fall into that life (perfectly demonstrated in The Wire)
- Step back from political correctness and have real honest conversations about the root causes of this and stop tiptoeing around issues whilst children continue to kill each other against the backdrop of empty rhetoric from completely removed politicians. This country stood up to and defeated Nazism. We can deal with this with less hand wringing and more action.
- Serious prison sentences for those inflicting damage to others with knives
- Education from a young young age
Right I'm off to heal the world and sing kumbya
A lot of recreational drug users aren't willing to address all the crime etc behind the drug trade.
The social security system will not be able to provide enough cash for these 'outsiders' to consider changing their ways through what might be considered state sponsored bribery.
Is there the political will to deal with this or will the government PR machines attempt to convince that all is well and this is just a 'phase we re going through' ?
Would this not help, even if it doesn’t change the world?
The suggestion that we don’t have enough police is insane. Look at the amount of police at football and the amount of football games all over the Country nearly every day.
What’s more important?
1. The occasional ruck at football which very very rarely tragically ends in death or serious injury. In fact, knowing they can actually get at each other and get hurt would deter many anyway.
Or
2. kids being stabbed to death every single week?
Ease of the football a bit, let CCTV take care of that, as it already does very well. Get the more important issue in order and then revert if need be.
No? Why not? Because we are and will forever be the easy target scum and nothing will ever change that. Tragic.