Slightly better one of the valley from a very good year - 1947
Thanks - thought I'd looked at every "Charlton" photo on that website but never saw this!
Off It, assume at least a fair amount of the empty space will be bomb clearance?
I think some photos vanish on different searches. Only yesterday I found a picture practically the same as this only the valley was more central and Charlton stadium was in full view. Today I cannot find it anywhere, wish I'd downloaded it now
Yeah, I thought that. But if you look at the pictures around St Pauls taken at the same time and it's more obvious there are bomb sites all over the place. Some of this land looks like it's never had anything on it.
Happy memories, Great bunch of lads. Mark before that "Perm"
Interesting snap. Mark James is a mate of mine since school days at Bloomfield. He now lives in Scunthorpe. Also i played school cricket with Mark Penfold (I made up the Numbers) and I think was on the “Royal” class .
Yeah, I thought that. But if you look at the pictures around St Pauls taken at the same time and it's more obvious there are bomb sites all over the place. Some of this land looks like it's never had anything on it.
. Charlton played so many Friday night games Tuesday night games was that you could catch the last race of the evening at the dog track. Think Rodney Stone had something to do with that. You could see the big (Tote score board) at the track well with all the bright lights from Charlton Station.
Had family that worked at Johnson and Phillips during the war and up untill 1974. Spent my childhood with visits to grandparents in Victoria Way just afew houses up from Troughton Road. So the reason for the prefab buildings at bottom of Victoria Way was bombed out houses. The prefabs was in use by J AND P CERTAIN ABOUT THAT.
Yes, the prefabs were sited where Phipps House and Hartwell House are now. I think they lasted until the late 1950s/early 1960s.
@Lewis Coaches … who were the grandparents in Victoria Way? I remember the Warners and the Mitchells who lived in that stretch between Troughton and Rathmore Road.
I found three more interesting bits about the area from the Edith's Streets website:
a) Johnson and Phillips. Victoria Works
In 1875, Walter Johnson and Samuel Phillips set up business in a small building called Victoria Works on the west side of the road and north of the railway line. They also took on a City office as ‘Telegraph and Electric Engineers’. They began making telegraph cable but expanded into other related products. In 1877 they opened a large workshop to make electric wire and cable. Sixty years the works later had expanded into a large public concern employing hundreds of workers. In 1906 land was bought from the railway to expand the works. At the end of the Great War houses in Fossdene and Inverine Roads were bought and demolished to expand the factory. By 1930 both partners had died but the firm continued to expand. Much of the works was demolished following a V2 rocket attack in 1945 however a lot of work had been done for PLUTO. After the war they made new breakthroughs in electric cable manufacture and sheathing. A tall circular tower built in 1966 could be seen throughout the area and housed extruded aluminium alloy tubing in a continual coil demolished. They were taken over by Delta & Enfield Ltd. in 1964. Most signs of Johnson & Phillips now gone but much of the equipment they manufactured is still extant in electrical installations here and abroad. Most of the site was cleared in the late 1960s and much of it subsequently developed with warehousing.
b) Troughton Road
Called after Edward Troughton of Troughton & Simms whose works backed on to this road. It was previously Bettisfield Street.
Hartwell House. Built on the site of war damaged properties Nos. 1-27. Initially in 1947 there were prefabs on the site, replaced in 1949 (*Not true … some were still there in the late 1950s/early 1960s).
Nos. 51-69 London Borough of Greenwich Housing built in 1977 on the site of Johnson and Phillips workshops themselves partly on the site of the Troughton and Simms Works.
c) Woolwich Road
Playhouse Cinema. This opened as The Charlton Picture Palace in 1915. By 1937 it had been re-named Playhouse Cinema. It was always independently operated. Still listed in 1940, it had been sold in 1938 to the dog track and demolished in 1950 to extend the Greyhound Stadium.
Charlton Greyhound Stadium. This lay east of Gallions Road and was opened in 1928 by Thomas Murphy an amusement contractor. The stadium opened in 1930 and introduced the first electric hare. They later introduced the first mechanical tote. ‘The Charlton Stadium Company Ltd’ was wound up in 1936 and taken over by the ‘The Charlton Stadium (1936) Ltd’. Their programmes including boxing and in 1934 all in wrestling. In 1937 the stadium was completely rebuilt designed by Captain Meston and included an electric Union totalisator. By the end of the Second World War business was booming and totalisator turnover was over £1 million a year. In 1946 it was taken over by London Stadiums Ltd., and in the 1960s bought by the Greyhound Racing Association. The stadium was redesigned again with a new track and stand. The last race at Charlton was in 1971.
Troughton & Simms. They were based west of Church Lane on a site covering both Troughton and Woolwich Road both now 1970s local authority housing. The firm moved here from Fleet Street in 1864 but the company originated in 1688. Troughton bought the business which made scientific and surveying instruments in 1782. Edward Troughton made several important contributions to astronomical instruments before 1831 when he retired. William Simms also made instruments notably for the East India Company and the companies merged. In Charlton they made instruments for observatories worldwide including the Altazimuth and the British National Standard was their idea. In 1920 the company was taken over and moved to York although the works in Charlton continued until 1924. The buildings were taken over by Johnson and Phillips and demolished in 1970. The complex included a Mission Hall set up by William Simms which later became offices.
Phipps House was built in 1958. I moved into number 10 there that year and stayed til 1966, when we moved to Eltham.
I also used to play football on the grassy area behind News shop and the RoD. Used to have dreams of turning it into a proper stadium. Seems a tiny space when I go there these days.
Other links:
1. My mum and dad met when they both worked at Johnson and Phillips in Victoria Way. They married in 1951.
2. I knew Phil Waghorn from the Ealdham Square photo (Wags or Waggsy to his mates) pretty well although he was more a friend of my brother. A good footballer in his day and a cracking bloke. Very funny and with the gift of the gab. Wish him well if he reads or posts on here.
Phipps House was built in 1958. I moved into number 10 there that year and stayed til 1966, when we moved to Eltham.
I also used to play football on the grassy area behind News shop and the RoD. Used to have dreams of turning it into a proper stadium. Seems a tiny space when I go there these days.
Is the "D Lindo" in the boxing photo the now quite famous broadcaster and writer David Lindo aka The Urban Birder? He has an engraved "celebrity" bench in Passey Place, Eltham.
Found by my missus on a Facebook group page and shown to me because my brother is in there.
See a certain Richie Bowman in the front row
I used to go to Ealdham Square and remember Boxing as part of our P.E lessons , i was telling one of my younger work colleagues about this the other day and he couldn't believe we done this at Junior school .
Phipps House was built in 1958. I moved into number 10 there that year and stayed til 1966, when we moved to Eltham.
I also used to play football on the grassy area behind News shop and the RoD. Used to have dreams of turning it into a proper stadium. Seems a tiny space when I go there these days.
So, you'll remember Mrs Munday then?
What a witch!
Was she the lady in the ground floor corner flat that used to come flying out every now and again if the ball hit her wall or windows? I still remember her! I remember the pub well enough but where did the shop used to be? I would have turned out on that 'pitch' around 1961-1964. Does that coincide with either of you guys?
Phipps House was built in 1958. I moved into number 10 there that year and stayed til 1966, when we moved to Eltham.
I also used to play football on the grassy area behind News shop and the RoD. Used to have dreams of turning it into a proper stadium. Seems a tiny space when I go there these days.
So, you'll remember Mrs Munday then?
What a witch!
Was she the lady in the ground floor corner flat that used to come flying out every now and again if the ball hit her wall or windows? I still remember her! I remember the pub well enough but where did the shop used to be? I would have turned out on that 'pitch' around 1961-1964. Does that coincide with either of you guys?
She was a miserable old cow.
Yes, Lucky, I probably played football on there with you and/or Dave Rudd. I would have been 9 in 1964 and my brother John about 11. We used to be on there all the time.
Other names I remember from that period are John Parker, Brian Dawson, Russell Kelly, Fred Warner (lived in Victoria Way).
Edit: the shop was immediately next to the grassy area. So it went shop, RoD, the dump (huge bonfire and family fireworks venue) then a few houses before Rathmore Road.
@Lucky_the_Cat … yes, 1961-64 is our era. We might have to disclose real names as we were almost certainly team mates. My real name is … err … Dave Rudd. Black curly hair back in the day, prolific in front of goal … and a particular target for Mrs Munday.
We also played cricket there in the summer. The wicket was one vertical line of bricks between the doors of two of the middle garages and we would run up to bowl along the tarmac path by the side of Hartwell House.
@Davo55 … Alan, I was recollecting some of the Phipps House residents (as you do) … the Buhl family, Paul Blinch, Charlie (who, I would later discover, worked at the Molassine Co. in Greenwich), Derrick (who had a disability with his foot/leg) … and, of course, John and Alan Davis who you will know all about. I also recall Kenny and Alan Clayton.
Your comment about imagining a stadium there was very interesting. On another thread here (Charlton United), we have speculated that the area was, at one time, named Victoria Field, the home of Charlton United. This fixture list is from 1894/5 (courtesy of Henry).
I've just noticed that the President is one Walter Claude Johnson … he of Johnson & Phillips. We come full circle.
Quite right. Delroy was fostered I think by a family Shawbrooke Road. Growing up in the area in early 60’s he was probably the first black kid at our school. Davvo 55 can you confirm. I’m sure he came on school journey with us which would have been about 1966. Then he was off to the states with his family.
Is the "D Lindo" in the boxing photo the now quite famous broadcaster and writer David Lindo aka The Urban Birder? He has an engraved "celebrity" bench in Passey Place, Eltham.
Is the "D Lindo" in the boxing photo the now quite famous broadcaster and writer David Lindo aka The Urban Birder? He has an engraved "celebrity" bench in Passey Place, Eltham.
No it’s Delroy. See Nicholas Cage Gone in 60 seconds Delroy was the cop.
Slightly better one of the valley from a very good year - 1947
Thanks - thought I'd looked at every "Charlton" photo on that website but never saw this!
Off It, assume at least a fair amount of the empty space will be bomb clearance?
The 1914 ordinance survey map has all the land between the Woolwich Road and the the Thames / Anchor and Hope Lane to West Street as allotments.
I know this is three decades later and more built up but maybe still allotments or reclaimed as farmland especially post war. My mother once told me all of Oxleas Meadow became farmland during the Second World War.
No idea what farmland / allotments look like from above.
I think that whole area North of the Woolwich Road down to the river was not really developed too much until Victorian times.
This map is from 1872. Charlton Pier (close to where the Thames Barrier is now) was where the action was. Some of the buildings (OK, little black squares) on the map may show the Siemans Brothers Telegraph Works which opened in 1863, but there's not much else in the relevant area.
I'm guessing that the red lines on the map indicate railway lines although, if that's the case, there are some odd things going on.
We did have the legendary Charlton Silicate Paint Works which came along in the late 1870s ... probably where Anchor and Hope Lane meets the river … or maybe to the East of that. This picture shows the site looking South, and I think that might be St Luke's on the hill in the distance.
Comments
The Barnsley 6-0 game.
I also used to play football on the grassy area behind News shop and the RoD. Used to have dreams of turning it into a proper stadium. Seems a tiny space when I go there these days.
Other links:
1. My mum and dad met when they both worked at Johnson and Phillips in Victoria Way. They married in 1951.
2. I knew Phil Waghorn from the Ealdham Square photo (Wags or Waggsy to his mates) pretty well although he was more a friend of my brother. A good footballer in his day and a cracking bloke. Very funny and with the gift of the gab. Wish him well if he reads or posts on here.
What a witch!
He has an engraved "celebrity" bench in Passey Place, Eltham.
I remember the pub well enough but where did the shop used to be?
I would have turned out on that 'pitch' around 1961-1964. Does that coincide with either of you guys?
Yes, Lucky, I probably played football on there with you and/or Dave Rudd. I would have been 9 in 1964 and my brother John about 11. We used to be on there all the time.
Other names I remember from that period are John Parker, Brian Dawson, Russell Kelly, Fred Warner (lived in Victoria Way).
Edit: the shop was immediately next to the grassy area. So it went shop, RoD, the dump (huge bonfire and family fireworks venue) then a few houses before Rathmore Road.
We also played cricket there in the summer. The wicket was one vertical line of bricks between the doors of two of the middle garages and we would run up to bowl along the tarmac path by the side of Hartwell House.
@Davo55 … Alan, I was recollecting some of the Phipps House residents (as you do) … the Buhl family, Paul Blinch, Charlie (who, I would later discover, worked at the Molassine Co. in Greenwich), Derrick (who had a disability with his foot/leg) … and, of course, John and Alan Davis who you will know all about. I also recall Kenny and Alan Clayton.
Your comment about imagining a stadium there was very interesting. On another thread here (Charlton United), we have speculated that the area was, at one time, named Victoria Field, the home of Charlton United. This fixture list is from 1894/5 (courtesy of Henry).
I've just noticed that the President is one Walter Claude Johnson … he of Johnson & Phillips. We come full circle.
Growing up in the area in early 60’s
he was probably the first black kid at our school. Davvo 55 can you confirm. I’m sure he came on school journey with us which would have been about 1966. Then he was off to the states with his family.
I know this is three decades later and more built up but maybe still allotments or reclaimed as farmland especially post war. My mother once told me all of Oxleas Meadow became farmland during the Second World War.
No idea what farmland / allotments look like from above.
Bit more zoomed in, doesn’t appear to be bomb damage cleared land but hard to tell for certain
Edit - just had a look at a map from 1938 and it looks pretty much the same, the same pieces of land have no buildings on them.
This map is from 1872. Charlton Pier (close to where the Thames Barrier is now) was where the action was. Some of the buildings (OK, little black squares) on the map may show the Siemans Brothers Telegraph Works which opened in 1863, but there's not much else in the relevant area.
I'm guessing that the red lines on the map indicate railway lines although, if that's the case, there are some odd things going on.
We did have the legendary Charlton Silicate Paint Works which came along in the late 1870s ... probably where Anchor and Hope Lane meets the river … or maybe to the East of that. This picture shows the site looking South, and I think that might be St Luke's on the hill in the distance.