I've got one word for the French & their fishing rights....
Tough.
We leave the EU & so can make up our own rules & laws. They don't get to say what we do in our waters.
They may well say something similar in response.
There is the slight problem that people in the UK do not, on the whole, eat the fish that is caught in UK waters.
Currently, UK trawlers can land fish at any EU fishing port, it is unlikely that that would be allowed if the UK closes its waters to others (including cases where there is an established custom that would, under Common Law, normally preserve access rights, I won't even consider the circumstances where there are already agreements of long-standing, as between the Danes and the UK).
And, the major profits in aquaculture are to be made in the processing of the fish that is landed.
If, as appears the case, aquaculture is not included in the Withdrawal Agreement, the "tough" approach could tuirn out to be a double-edged sword.
Tariffs on value added/processed fish products are higher, which would reduce the attractiveness of processing fish for export to the EU27 in the UK, with obvious knock-on effects to the shore-based industry. At the same time, the additional time taken between fish being landed in the UK and arriving at a continental processing site (due to the need to transport via BIPs) would be likely to reduce the price that is paid on the quayside (as those purchasing would wish to mitigate, as far as possible, the potential for losses due to delays in transit).
An agreement between the parties would help avoid problems for both sides, and would involve some form of compromise, which would suggest that the "tough" approach would prove counter-productive.
I've got one word for the French & their fishing rights....
Tough.
We leave the EU & so can make up our own rules & laws. They don't get to say what we do in our waters.
They may well say something similar in response.
There is the slight problem that people in the UK do not, on the whole, eat the fish that is caught in UK waters.
Currently, UK trawlers can land fish at any EU fishing port, it is unlikely that that would be allowed if the UK closes its waters to others (including cases where there is an established custom that would, under Common Law, normally preserve access rights, I won't even consider the circumstances where there are already agreements of long-standing, as between the Danes and the UK).
And, the major profits in aquaculture are to be made in the processing of the fish that is landed.
If, as appears the case, aquaculture is not included in the Withdrawal Agreement, the "tough" approach could tuirn out to be a double-edged sword.
Tariffs on value added/processed fish products are higher, which would reduce the attractiveness of processing fish for export to the EU27 in the UK, with obvious knock-on effects to the shore-based industry. At the same time, the additional time taken between fish being landed in the UK and arriving at a continental processing site (due to the need to transport via BIPs) would be likely to reduce the price that is paid on the quayside (as those purchasing would wish to mitigate, as far as possible, the potential for losses due to delays in transit).
An agreement between the parties would help avoid problems for both sides, and would involve some form of compromise, which would suggest that the "tough" approach would prove counter-productive.
I've got one word for the French & their fishing rights....
Tough.
We leave the EU & so can make up our own rules & laws. They don't get to say what we do in our waters.
I really don't get all the fuss about something that accounts for less than half of one percent of UK GDP. Who gives a toss about the city or manufacturing as long as we can take back control of our territorial waters, so we alone can over-fish the depleting stocks.
Rule Britannia!
“Territorial waters” is one of those terms that sounds really compelling though, like “sovereignty” or “control of our borders”. I would imagine that the idea that there can be some corner of the sea that will be forever British is really exciting for Brexiteers.
Once again, contempt for the fishermen who supported Brexit. Is your job as dangerous as their's, I wonder?
I have to cross the road at Ludgate Circus to get to my office everyday so probably.
I've got one word for the French & their fishing rights....
Tough.
We leave the EU & so can make up our own rules & laws. They don't get to say what we do in our waters.
They may well say something similar in response.
There is the slight problem that people in the UK do not, on the whole, eat the fish that is caught in UK waters.
Currently, UK trawlers can land fish at any EU fishing port, it is unlikely that that would be allowed if the UK closes its waters to others (including cases where there is an established custom that would, under Common Law, normally preserve access rights, I won't even consider the circumstances where there are already agreements of long-standing, as between the Danes and the UK).
And, the major profits in aquaculture are to be made in the processing of the fish that is landed.
If, as appears the case, aquaculture is not included in the Withdrawal Agreement, the "tough" approach could tuirn out to be a double-edged sword.
Tariffs on value added/processed fish products are higher, which would reduce the attractiveness of processing fish for export to the EU27 in the UK, with obvious knock-on effects to the shore-based industry. At the same time, the additional time taken between fish being landed in the UK and arriving at a continental processing site (due to the need to transport via BIPs) would be likely to reduce the price that is paid on the quayside (as those purchasing would wish to mitigate, as far as possible, the potential for losses due to delays in transit).
An agreement between the parties would help avoid problems for both sides, and would involve some form of compromise, which would suggest that the "tough" approach would prove counter-productive.
This is true. In Italy they have a fantastic selection of fish they sell/eat and it surprised me that a lot I had not seen on sale here was caught in our waters. We are not the most adventurous cod and chips merchants - very nice though that is.
As usual, the really important matters in Czech life are properly addressed:
"An interesting feature of the national naval presence in the Czech Republic is its structural composition of the special Office of the Beer Naval Support, which is engaged in the purchase, quality control and delivery of the famous Czech beer on combat ships, vessels and coastal side. Just this Office has been supporting in a proper state of all shipboard beer pipelines available on the Czech Navy ships."
If you want to find the elites, you need to look in the top 1%, not well paid people like university lecturers doing well for themselves. And they are not ALL evil masterminds, just the people all the money is flowing to. People do well out of them, and they represent them - you get more financial benefits from supporting extremely rich people than you do supporting extremely poor people.
The elites go way beyond the rich and super rich. Parliament makes our laws, the civil service and the judges and lawyers carry them out. That gives them all an elite position in society.
Lecturers and teachers pass on knowledge with their own emphasis and interpretations. This gives them purchase on intellectual life, as it does media people.
I would class all of these people as elites because they exercise more control over society than ordinary people.
They are all heavily pro-EU. Many of them benefit directly from the EU and many more feel more comfortable with their counterparts in Berlin or Paris than they do with ordinary people here. That is just a fact I am afraid. I am also part of that group because of my education and profession. I mix socially with them and over the past two years I have found it almost impossible to do so. They talk of Leavers, by which they mainly mean the white working class, with contempt. In private they talk of 'morons', 'lowlifes', 'racist scum', terms which are effectively racist. Bear in mind that most of these elites are 'anti-racist' etc, but use terms for Leavers which are as racist as any BNP member.
My family are entirely white working class, apart from me. I take it personally when I hear their kind being insulted and abused.
What is indisputable is that people are dying. The vast majority of those are elderly and the demographic of the Brexit vote was that the older generations tended to vote leave. The point @Red_in_SE8 originally made was correct even if the exact figures of deaths overlaid with voting in the referendum are not as precise.
When those 50-54 year olds become elderly and automatically start voting for Brexit there'll be trouble. Better get a new vote sequence going soon. Best of 5 should do it.
I made the point a while ago that many of the people who supported joining in the 1970s voted against it this time. The longer you experience the EU generally the more you dislike it.
Can't be arsed to read over 170 posts since my last visit.
All I will say is that TM is a,liar & can't be trusted to run a whelk stall. For over 2 years she has repeatedly stated that No Deal is better than a bad deal. Now, when she finally has a deal that is worse than we already have....and pisses all over her "red lines"....all we hear is that it's "this deal or nothing".
Well.......you can piss off & the the rest of the government with you. There will be so much arm twisting, cajoling & bribing over the next 2 weeks it will make Dubai's winning of hosting the 2022 WC look kosher. I expect her deal to get through Parliament as 300 odd Tory MP's will vote for their own future's & not for what the public voted for.
Shame on the lot of them.
I agree with you golfie. However. Did you expect us to get a deal as good as the one we currently have as members ? It would be impossible and thats the knub of the whole brexit lie. How many people fell for it and you have to ask just how gullible were they.
No....I wasn't expecting to get a better deal than the one we have initially or may be not even as good as what we have in terms of trade etc. But eventually, once we un-tie ourselves from the EU & find our feet then I believe the UK can thrive & prosper.
I've been divorced twice & in neither cases did I come out of the marriages better off financially or even on par. But you don't stay married just because it's easier not to get divorced. For me financially it has been a long hard struggle over the past 8 years....but I'm a lot better off now than I was on the day my decri absolute came through.
Possibly the most ridiculous analogy I have ever seen. Unless you forced about 50% of other happily married people to get divorced at the same time?
You told us pages back that you dropped a bollock by voting leave. Why do you keep on coming back with more mad ideas?
If you want to find the elites, you need to look in the top 1%, not well paid people like university lecturers doing well for themselves. And they are not ALL evil masterminds, just the people all the money is flowing to. People do well out of them, and they represent them - you get more financial benefits from supporting extremely rich people than you do supporting extremely poor people.
The elites go way beyond the rich and super rich. Parliament makes our laws, the civil service and the judges and lawyers carry them out. That gives them all an elite position in society.
Lecturers and teachers pass on knowledge with their own emphasis and interpretations. This gives them purchase on intellectual life, as it does media people.
I would class all of these people as elites because they exercise more control over society than ordinary people.
They are all heavily pro-EU. Many of them benefit directly from the EU and many more feel more comfortable with their counterparts in Berlin or Paris than they do with ordinary people here. That is just a fact I am afraid. I am also part of that group because of my education and profession. I mix socially with them and over the past two years I have found it almost impossible to do so. They talk of Leavers, by which they mainly mean the white working class, with contempt. In private they talk of 'morons', 'lowlifes', 'racist scum', terms which are effectively racist. Bear in mind that most of these elites are 'anti-racist' etc, but use terms for Leavers which are as racist as any BNP member.
My family are entirely white working class, apart from me. I take it personally when I hear their kind being insulted and abused.
Actually Lord Ashcroft's analysis showed there was no discernible split between Leave and Remain amongst whites and 'working class' is such a broad meaningless term in modern times there is no actual discernible split between people on such a definition, although a majority of those in full/part time work voted Remain as well as a majority of renters and mortgage holders.
You seem to class half the country as elites then make up this narrative that they hate the white working classes, even though many of the people you slander as elites are actually white working classes.
How do you explain the largely white working class urban Northerners and Scots voting for Remain in droves? What about the Northern Irish, most of whom would never fit into any reasonable definition of 'elites' (not that any definition you have spouted so far has come close to anything remotely sensible, since you seem to think that everyone with more than 5 O-Levels or equivalent is an elite).
If you want to find the elites, you need to look in the top 1%, not well paid people like university lecturers doing well for themselves. And they are not ALL evil masterminds, just the people all the money is flowing to. People do well out of them, and they represent them - you get more financial benefits from supporting extremely rich people than you do supporting extremely poor people.
The elites go way beyond the rich and super rich. Parliament makes our laws, the civil service and the judges and lawyers carry them out. That gives them all an elite position in society.
Lecturers and teachers pass on knowledge with their own emphasis and interpretations. This gives them purchase on intellectual life, as it does media people.
I would class all of these people as elites because they exercise more control over society than ordinary people.
They are all heavily pro-EU. Many of them benefit directly from the EU and many more feel more comfortable with their counterparts in Berlin or Paris than they do with ordinary people here. That is just a fact I am afraid. I am also part of that group because of my education and profession. I mix socially with them and over the past two years I have found it almost impossible to do so. They talk of Leavers, by which they mainly mean the white working class, with contempt. In private they talk of 'morons', 'lowlifes', 'racist scum', terms which are effectively racist. Bear in mind that most of these elites are 'anti-racist' etc, but use terms for Leavers which are as racist as any BNP member.
My family are entirely white working class, apart from me. I take it personally when I hear their kind being insulted and abused.
Teachers if they are any good do not pass on knowledge, but help their students along the road towards their own knowledge. Done well teachers are indeed an elite group and their skills are often under estimated, but I wouldn't say for the reasons you give. If lecturers and teachers mainly voted remain it suggests to me that they value the virtue of collaboration which is often a feature of their work.
This thread is flipping exhausting. I can say that I'm not, by any stretch of the imagination, part of the elite. But I have got bitchin' hair. That much is true.
It appears that agreement (compromise, even, who would have thought?) has been achieved on a form of words for the political declaration today.
Hands up who thinks that our fine, upstanding political representatives in Westminster will be able to see the big picture and agree something in the next few weeks....
IMHO, other than remaining in the EU, I think we are looking at the least bad option available, given the red lines laid down prior to invoking Article 50.
May's plan is definitely the least worst option after no Brexit at all. But no Brexit at all seems the best option. Brexiters are not happy with the deal so what's the point? If they are not going to be happy, we might as well be better off whilst they are unhappy!
Psst... claiming Merkel is in control of the EU is a far-right trope capitalising on nationalists' inability to discern the difference between modern day Germany and Nazi Germany.
Populists: "Hey Britain! The EU has stolen all of your control and sovereignty!"
One third of the electorate: "Oh shit! We want to leave the EU!"
2018
Populists: "Hey! Leaving the EU actually means we'll lose more sovereignty and control! It turns out we never lost any sovereignty and control at all!"
Upsides and downsides are usually with reference to the financials. There is quite a lot more to brexit than that.
Yep, Brexit is the biggest loss of rights in modern British history, difficult to forgive those who have blithely voted for me to lose my rights, and galling to have them claim me losing rights as some sort of victory.
There are few Brexiters claiming victory I think you will find.
Maybe not now, but for much of the last two years we've heard nothing, but "leave won, get over it", like I'm supposed to jsut get over my rights being stolen and the financial security of myself, my children and my eventual grandchildren (remember Rees-Mogg blithely saying it could take 50 years before there is any upside?) needlessly put at risk, and to gain what? Please tell me something, anything that is worth what is being forcibly taken from me? It's been over 2 years and nobody can tell me anything that comes even close to being worth what I'm losing.
Forcibly or democratically?
Even if we ignore the fact that it wasn't a binding referendum, that the result was a rounding error in size and that referenda aren't actually recognised by our parliamentary democracy. It's only democratic if the electorate are informed, it's clearly spelt our what will happen for each of the given options (you know, like countries that actually use referenda properly do) and the referendum is conducted under full election law.
What we had was a purely advisory popularity contest where the contestants could tell any lies they liked with impunity apparently.
It's was, and remains, a twisted corruption of the democratic process in this country, that promised the undeliverable to the uninformed.
100% agree with all of this but nonetheless should the remedy be to dismiss the 2016 result and to call the electorate ill informed etc.? For that way lies division and more friction. As per the discussion yesterday, surely it's far better to recognise that things have moved on in terms of the coverage and the general understanding amongst the electorate. And that we now have a tangible withdrawal agreement to compare to the status quo.
Two years on and as intimated by @NornIrishAddick , May has delivered the best possible outcome given the parameters and boundaries she herself set. But it was her, and not the electorate nor Parliament, which ruled out the Norway option that massively reduces risk. And she ruled that out on the grounds that it was pointless to leave the EU if the UK goes for Norway plus CU. Plus she was determined to deliver an end to Freedom of Movement, for that was her takeaway from the 2016 exercise.
So May is the architect and the WA looks like it will likely fail at the first attempt - we should note that polls this week have edged up acceptance from 16% to 23%. A large increase but we should allow the polls to develop and see if the WA can ever accrue more than 30% support. Some voters and some business leaders are saying just get on with it but in democratic terms, should the WA fail to hit 30% then there is a very strong case for a second referendum.
Politically what has happened is that we have now shifted from WA vs No deal to the prospect of WA vs No Brexit. That is progress in my book. And MPs are now discussing whether they should wait until the WA is voted down before pushing for a second referendum - for that might be seen as a rational response? We don't know what will be decided by the Commons but at least they have control of the process. In other words control has been wrested from the Express, Telegraph, ERG and Farage.
One big advantage of putting the question back to the people is that we can remedy some of the problems you highlight with the last exercise. One of your points is addressed in that the options will be clearly outlined and it is obviously possible to place some law around the process. That won't stop distortions and untruths but at least the cake and eat it approach should be unavailable. The funding side and transparency does not yet have a solution.
2016 Cameron: 'Please Mrs Merkel, can we have some relief on free movement or anti-EU forces will keep growing in the UK Merkel: No
2017 Barnier: 'How should we negotiate with the UK' Mrs Merkel: 'F**k them'
2017 Brexiters: 'This is what we would like' May: 'No'
2018 May: 'We will give you everything you want if you can at least pretend we are leaving EU control' Barnier: 'No'
2018 Barnier to EU 27: 'We have f**cked them' EU 27: 'Not enough for our liking'
2018 May to British people: 'We have been f**cked' British people:' Yes we have been f**cked'
I believe the 2016 actually go like this
Cameron: 'Please Mrs Merkel, can we have some relief on free movement or anti-EU forces will keep growing in the UK Merkel: yeah of course, where's the evidence to activate the emergency stop Cameron: eeerrr, we don't have any, just feels of baby boomers who heard a strange accent in Budgens once, and the front page of the Express. Merkel: hmm, no
Everybody would jump about prior to a second vote, but they would find it hard afterwards. It would reflect the will of the people, and I wouldn't rule out Brexit winning. That is why how you get to it is important. The way we are going is getting there in the right way. As much blame as possible needs to be shifted to the hard nosed Brexiters!
2016 Cameron: 'Please Mrs Merkel, can we have some relief on free movement or anti-EU forces will keep growing in the UK Merkel: No
2017 Barnier: 'How should we negotiate with the UK' Mrs Merkel: 'F**k them'
2017 Brexiters: 'This is what we would like' May: 'No'
2018 May: 'We will give you everything you want if you can at least pretend we are leaving EU control' Barnier: 'No'
2018 Barnier to EU 27: 'We have f**cked them' EU 27: 'Not enough for our liking'
2018 May to British people: 'We have been f**cked' British people:' Yes we have been f**cked'
In reality 'Please European Union, can we have some relief on free movement or anti-EU forces will keep growing in the UK' EU: 'You already can, you just choose not to invoke the rule that allows that, why not explain that properly to your electorate instead of blaming us?"
If you want to find the elites, you need to look in the top 1%, not well paid people like university lecturers doing well for themselves. And they are not ALL evil masterminds, just the people all the money is flowing to. People do well out of them, and they represent them - you get more financial benefits from supporting extremely rich people than you do supporting extremely poor people.
The elites go way beyond the rich and super rich. Parliament makes our laws, the civil service and the judges and lawyers carry them out. That gives them all an elite position in society.
Lecturers and teachers pass on knowledge with their own emphasis and interpretations. This gives them purchase on intellectual life, as it does media people.
I would class all of these people as elites because they exercise more control over society than ordinary people.
They are all heavily pro-EU. Many of them benefit directly from the EU and many more feel more comfortable with their counterparts in Berlin or Paris than they do with ordinary people here. That is just a fact I am afraid. I am also part of that group because of my education and profession. I mix socially with them and over the past two years I have found it almost impossible to do so. They talk of Leavers, by which they mainly mean the white working class, with contempt. In private they talk of 'morons', 'lowlifes', 'racist scum', terms which are effectively racist. Bear in mind that most of these elites are 'anti-racist' etc, but use terms for Leavers which are as racist as any BNP member.
My family are entirely white working class, apart from me. I take it personally when I hear their kind being insulted and abused.
Doesn't make sense to me. You say these "elites" are all heavily pro-EU, then say that you are also part of this group even though you are clearly on the leave side? Pretty sure JRM, Boris, Farage, the right-wing press all fall under your definition too.
If somebody paid you to punch them in the face in a couple of years time, what is the first thing you would do if your were half decent when the time came. I would suggest you might check that they still wished to be punched in the face. That's how I see the second vote!
Comments
:-)
There is the slight problem that people in the UK do not, on the whole, eat the fish that is caught in UK waters.
Currently, UK trawlers can land fish at any EU fishing port, it is unlikely that that would be allowed if the UK closes its waters to others (including cases where there is an established custom that would, under Common Law, normally preserve access rights, I won't even consider the circumstances where there are already agreements of long-standing, as between the Danes and the UK).
And, the major profits in aquaculture are to be made in the processing of the fish that is landed.
If, as appears the case, aquaculture is not included in the Withdrawal Agreement, the "tough" approach could tuirn out to be a double-edged sword.
Tariffs on value added/processed fish products are higher, which would reduce the attractiveness of processing fish for export to the EU27 in the UK, with obvious knock-on effects to the shore-based industry. At the same time, the additional time taken between fish being landed in the UK and arriving at a continental processing site (due to the need to transport via BIPs) would be likely to reduce the price that is paid on the quayside (as those purchasing would wish to mitigate, as far as possible, the potential for losses due to delays in transit).
An agreement between the parties would help avoid problems for both sides, and would involve some form of compromise, which would suggest that the "tough" approach would prove counter-productive.
Stationed in Hamburg, AFAIK.
As usual, the really important matters in Czech life are properly addressed:
"An interesting feature of the national naval presence in the Czech Republic is its structural composition of the special Office of the Beer Naval Support, which is engaged in the purchase, quality control and delivery of the famous Czech beer on combat ships, vessels and coastal side. Just this Office has been supporting in a proper state of all shipboard beer pipelines available on the Czech Navy ships."
And it's "Ahoj". We are not effing pirates.
Lecturers and teachers pass on knowledge with their own emphasis and interpretations. This gives them purchase on intellectual life, as it does media people.
I would class all of these people as elites because they exercise more control over society than ordinary people.
They are all heavily pro-EU. Many of them benefit directly from the EU and many more feel more comfortable with their counterparts in Berlin or Paris than they do with ordinary people here. That is just a fact I am afraid. I am also part of that group because of my education and profession. I mix socially with them and over the past two years I have found it almost impossible to do so. They talk of Leavers, by which they mainly mean the white working class, with contempt. In private they talk of 'morons', 'lowlifes', 'racist scum', terms which are effectively racist. Bear in mind that most of these elites are 'anti-racist' etc, but use terms for Leavers which are as racist as any BNP member.
My family are entirely white working class, apart from me. I take it personally when I hear their kind being insulted and abused.
You seem to class half the country as elites then make up this narrative that they hate the white working classes, even though many of the people you slander as elites are actually white working classes.
How do you explain the largely white working class urban Northerners and Scots voting for Remain in droves? What about the Northern Irish, most of whom would never fit into any reasonable definition of 'elites' (not that any definition you have spouted so far has come close to anything remotely sensible, since you seem to think that everyone with more than 5 O-Levels or equivalent is an elite).
Done well teachers are indeed an elite group and their skills are often under estimated, but I wouldn't say for the reasons you give.
If lecturers and teachers mainly voted remain it suggests to me that they value the virtue of collaboration which is often a feature of their work.
Hands up who thinks that our fine, upstanding political representatives in Westminster will be able to see the big picture and agree something in the next few weeks....
IMHO, other than remaining in the EU, I think we are looking at the least bad option available, given the red lines laid down prior to invoking Article 50.
2016
Cameron: 'Please Mrs Merkel, can we have some relief on free movement or anti-EU forces will keep growing in the UK
Merkel: No
2017
Barnier: 'How should we negotiate with the UK'
Mrs Merkel: 'F**k them'
2017
Brexiters: 'This is what we would like'
May: 'No'
2018
May: 'We will give you everything you want if you can at least pretend we are leaving EU control'
Barnier: 'No'
2018
Barnier to EU 27: 'We have f**cked them'
EU 27: 'Not enough for our liking'
2018
May to British people: 'We have been f**cked'
British people:' Yes we have been f**cked'
"We have f**ked ourselves in a sovereign way, without any trouble from the EU at all, we took control before we 'take back control''.
Did you genuinely expect the EU27 to roll over and let us tickle their bellies?
Populists: "Hey Britain! The EU has stolen all of your control and sovereignty!"
One third of the electorate: "Oh shit! We want to leave the EU!"
2018
Populists: "Hey! Leaving the EU actually means we'll lose more sovereignty and control! It turns out we never lost any sovereignty and control at all!"
Leave voters: "Oh shit we were lied to!"
Everyone else: "No shit."
Two years on and as intimated by @NornIrishAddick , May has delivered the best possible outcome given the parameters and boundaries she herself set. But it was her, and not the electorate nor Parliament, which ruled out the Norway option that massively reduces risk. And she ruled that out on the grounds that it was pointless to leave the EU if the UK goes for Norway plus CU. Plus she was determined to deliver an end to Freedom of Movement, for that was her takeaway from the 2016 exercise.
So May is the architect and the WA looks like it will likely fail at the first attempt - we should note that polls this week have edged up acceptance from 16% to 23%. A large increase but we should allow the polls to develop and see if the WA can ever accrue more than 30% support. Some voters and some business leaders are saying just get on with it but in democratic terms, should the WA fail to hit 30% then there is a very strong case for a second referendum.
Politically what has happened is that we have now shifted from WA vs No deal to the prospect of WA vs No Brexit. That is progress in my book. And MPs are now discussing whether they should wait until the WA is voted down before pushing for a second referendum - for that might be seen as a rational response? We don't know what will be decided by the Commons but at least they have control of the process. In other words control has been wrested from the Express, Telegraph, ERG and Farage.
One big advantage of putting the question back to the people is that we can remedy some of the problems you highlight with the last exercise. One of your points is addressed in that the options will be clearly outlined and it is obviously possible to place some law around the process. That won't stop distortions and untruths but at least the cake and eat it approach should be unavailable. The funding side and transparency does not yet have a solution.
Cameron: 'Please Mrs Merkel, can we have some relief on free movement or anti-EU forces will keep growing in the UK
Merkel: yeah of course, where's the evidence to activate the emergency stop
Cameron: eeerrr, we don't have any, just feels of baby boomers who heard a strange accent in Budgens once, and the front page of the Express.
Merkel: hmm, no
EU: 'You already can, you just choose not to invoke the rule that allows that, why not explain that properly to your electorate instead of blaming us?"
on the whole, eat the fish that is caught in UK waters'.
Could you please inform me in my ignorance which fish
are mainly caught in British waters?