Bit barbed with the 'grown ups' reference @PragueAddick
There is also Alex salmond and maajid nawaz so I would say something for everyone even if 'facts' are a bit short on the ground.
I recall job saying that he found the BBC slightly frustrating always having to provide two opposing viewpoints for reasons of balance when clearly the argument was in his opinion more one sided.
I make no apologies for that barbed comment either. It depresses me that virtually every day someone posts some comment that has appeared on LBC, but I am alone in regularly referring to information I have learnt from Radio 4. You yourself made a barbed comment about the quality of debate on this thread, as you see it. Perhaps the two things are connected. I know it reflects the age we live in, but it doesn't alter the truth. To join in an informed debate, one has to be informed.
I do think the quality of debate on here has deteriorated. This thread like the previous one can't have long to go.
Brexiteers like me (the 52/48 marginal split type) rather than the rabid kipper type have been called moronic stupid and now we don't care.
I don't think I'm moronic stupid or don't care and wouldn't say the same of either remainers or people who chose not to vote in the referendum.
What is evidently clear is the country is polically very divided and in my opinion has been so for some time. Healthy debate would be better.
What is it that you care about?
Probably the same things as you. But I don't much care for Ferrero rocher chocolates and yellow wine gums.
Bit barbed with the 'grown ups' reference @PragueAddick
There is also Alex salmond and maajid nawaz so I would say something for everyone even if 'facts' are a bit short on the ground.
I recall job saying that he found the BBC slightly frustrating always having to provide two opposing viewpoints for reasons of balance when clearly the argument was in his opinion more one sided.
I make no apologies for that barbed comment either. It depresses me that virtually every day someone posts some comment that has appeared on LBC, but I am alone in regularly referring to information I have learnt from Radio 4. You yourself made a barbed comment about the quality of debate on this thread, as you see it. Perhaps the two things are connected. I know it reflects the age we live in, but it doesn't alter the truth. To join in an informed debate, one has to be informed.
I do think the quality of debate on here has deteriorated. This thread like the previous one can't have long to go.
Brexiteers like me (the 52/48 marginal split type) rather than the rabid kipper type have been called moronic stupid and now we don't care.
I don't think I'm moronic stupid or don't care and wouldn't say the same of either remainers or people who chose not to vote in the referendum.
What is evidently clear is the country is polically very divided and in my opinion has been so for some time. Healthy debate would be better.
I don't recall that I called you stupid. I try to play the ball not the man, although perhaps sometimes I fail in that. The "grown up" barb was really about the dumbing down of media generally, and the fact that the BBC gets slaughtered while putting out really good stuff that most people never bother tapping in to. I thought your post in which you told us more about your son's Czech girlfriend, and your wider thoughts leading up to the referendum very interesting, not least that you had previously voted Lib. Dem. I am pretty sure I gave it a like. But the fact is that Remainers are "insulted" by Brexiteers as much as vice versa. The weirdest phenomenon on here is the constant demand from two rabid Brexiteers @Chippycafc and @blackpool72 to close any thread relating to Brexit. The point is that to make such demands they have to be reading the thread. if you don't like the thread, don't read it. There are loads of threads on CL I don't read. There might be a few whose subject I think might be a bit dodgy, but who am I to go on there and demand it be closed? There are football threads where people make the most outrageous statements, especially about Josh Magennis, but no one argues they should be closed. Yet on the a thread about the most important event of our lifetimes for most people, these two keep trying to close the discussion down, despite holding very strong views themselves. WTF?
Don't give up on the discussion please. Somebody like you, who thought long and hard about how they voted, has the power to make committed Remainers like me stop and think, how the hell did the remain side lose the vote of someone like you?
And by the way I meant to answer, tell your son, Czech is an absolute bastard of a language to master, but less so when you are in the country, and especially in one of its pubs :-) If he would want any advice about whether it is worth giving it a try out here, don't hesitate to PM me.
Bit barbed with the 'grown ups' reference @PragueAddick
There is also Alex salmond and maajid nawaz so I would say something for everyone even if 'facts' are a bit short on the ground.
I recall job saying that he found the BBC slightly frustrating always having to provide two opposing viewpoints for reasons of balance when clearly the argument was in his opinion more one sided.
I make no apologies for that barbed comment either. It depresses me that virtually every day someone posts some comment that has appeared on LBC, but I am alone in regularly referring to information I have learnt from Radio 4. You yourself made a barbed comment about the quality of debate on this thread, as you see it. Perhaps the two things are connected. I know it reflects the age we live in, but it doesn't alter the truth. To join in an informed debate, one has to be informed.
I do think the quality of debate on here has deteriorated. This thread like the previous one can't have long to go.
Brexiteers like me (the 52/48 marginal split type) rather than the rabid kipper type have been called moronic stupid and now we don't care.
I don't think I'm moronic stupid or don't care and wouldn't say the same of either remainers or people who chose not to vote in the referendum.
What is evidently clear is the country is polically very divided and in my opinion has been so for some time. Healthy debate would be better.
I don't recall that I called you stupid. I try to play the ball not the man, ..............the constant demand from two rabid Brexiteers
Bit barbed with the 'grown ups' reference @PragueAddick
There is also Alex salmond and maajid nawaz so I would say something for everyone even if 'facts' are a bit short on the ground.
I recall job saying that he found the BBC slightly frustrating always having to provide two opposing viewpoints for reasons of balance when clearly the argument was in his opinion more one sided.
I make no apologies for that barbed comment either. It depresses me that virtually every day someone posts some comment that has appeared on LBC, but I am alone in regularly referring to information I have learnt from Radio 4. You yourself made a barbed comment about the quality of debate on this thread, as you see it. Perhaps the two things are connected. I know it reflects the age we live in, but it doesn't alter the truth. To join in an informed debate, one has to be informed.
I do think the quality of debate on here has deteriorated. This thread like the previous one can't have long to go.
Brexiteers like me (the 52/48 marginal split type) rather than the rabid kipper type have been called moronic stupid and now we don't care.
I don't think I'm moronic stupid or don't care and wouldn't say the same of either remainers or people who chose not to vote in the referendum.
What is evidently clear is the country is polically very divided and in my opinion has been so for some time. Healthy debate would be better.
I don't recall that I called you stupid. I try to play the ball not the man, ..............the constant demand from two rabid Brexiteers
Bit barbed with the 'grown ups' reference @PragueAddick
There is also Alex salmond and maajid nawaz so I would say something for everyone even if 'facts' are a bit short on the ground.
I recall job saying that he found the BBC slightly frustrating always having to provide two opposing viewpoints for reasons of balance when clearly the argument was in his opinion more one sided.
I make no apologies for that barbed comment either. It depresses me that virtually every day someone posts some comment that has appeared on LBC, but I am alone in regularly referring to information I have learnt from Radio 4. You yourself made a barbed comment about the quality of debate on this thread, as you see it. Perhaps the two things are connected. I know it reflects the age we live in, but it doesn't alter the truth. To join in an informed debate, one has to be informed.
I do think the quality of debate on here has deteriorated. This thread like the previous one can't have long to go.
Brexiteers like me (the 52/48 marginal split type) rather than the rabid kipper type have been called moronic stupid and now we don't care.
I don't think I'm moronic stupid or don't care and wouldn't say the same of either remainers or people who chose not to vote in the referendum.
What is evidently clear is the country is polically very divided and in my opinion has been so for some time. Healthy debate would be better.
You just summed up perfectly why I don't participate anymore. Chippy and dipps and a few others have my utmost respect for continuing to post. Not for me.
Retreat in the face of overwhelming odds is no disgrace.
The thing is shooters in the real world Brexit got 52 % of the vote. On Charlton life it would get about 10%. Arguing on here is like pissing in the wind and I haven't got the energy for it
Couldn't find the exact thread where the vote was held but here's a tweet direct from CL on Twitter regarding the Brexit Poll result:
Great read. From the day after the Brexit vote one thing I have banged on about relentlessly is the 400km land border on the island of Ireland. From what we know there has been no progress towards a solution, and vocal brexiters, be they politicians, or Weatherspoons/Dyson owners, or pro Brexit media people or brexiters on here have basically ignored the issue hoping it will either go away or be solved by somebody, but not them. I have made more suggestions as to the border than any brexiters. However the government position that they can't move on the issue until they know the future trading relationship is yet another avoidance tactic. There are not an infinite number of possibilities or solutions, there are probably half a dozen at most. The UK government ought to state what they would do in each of those (half dozen?) scenarios. It isn't even a case of showing a hand during negotiations either. It is a case of clear answers being supplied. Those who voted Brexit we are told want to control the UK border. Yet none of them suggest a solution, no wonder they want to shut the debate down, not because it is fractious, but because continuing the debate exposes the weakness of their position more and more day by day.
Great read. From the day after the Brexit vote one thing I have banged on about relentlessly is the 400km land border on the island of Ireland. From what we know there has been no progress towards a solution, and vocal brexiters, be they politicians, or Weatherspoons/Dyson owners, or pro Brexit media people or brexiters on here have basically ignored the issue hoping it will either go away or be solved by somebody, but not them. I have made more suggestions as to the border than any brexiters. However the government position that they can't move on the issue until they know the future trading relationship is yet another avoidance tactic. There are not an infinite number of possibilities or solutions, there are probably half a dozen at most. The UK government ought to state what they would do in each of those (half dozen?) scenarios. It isn't even a case of showing a hand during negotiations either. It is a case of clear answers being supplied. Those who voted Brexit we are told want to control the UK border. Yet none of them suggest a solution, no wonder they want to shut the debate down, not because it is fractious, but because continuing the debate exposes the weakness of their position more and more day by day.
Not that it particularly matters, but you know full well that I have made suggestions - the fact that you may have disagreed with them does not get away from the fact that I did put some ideas forward.
Great read. From the day after the Brexit vote one thing I have banged on about relentlessly is the 400km land border on the island of Ireland. From what we know there has been no progress towards a solution, and vocal brexiters, be they politicians, or Weatherspoons/Dyson owners, or pro Brexit media people or brexiters on here have basically ignored the issue hoping it will either go away or be solved by somebody, but not them. I have made more suggestions as to the border than any brexiters. However the government position that they can't move on the issue until they know the future trading relationship is yet another avoidance tactic. There are not an infinite number of possibilities or solutions, there are probably half a dozen at most. The UK government ought to state what they would do in each of those (half dozen?) scenarios. It isn't even a case of showing a hand during negotiations either. It is a case of clear answers being supplied. Those who voted Brexit we are told want to control the UK border. Yet none of them suggest a solution, no wonder they want to shut the debate down, not because it is fractious, but because continuing the debate exposes the weakness of their position more and more day by day.
Not that it particularly matters, but you know full well that I have made suggestions - the fact that you may have disagreed with them does not get away from the fact that I did put some ideas forward.
mea culpa, you have as has Dippenhall in the past.
Apologies.
However I think you might find that your ideas and Dippenhalls have withered away in the face of scrutiny and logic. Come back at me on that point if you wish.
Are you not also rather surprised that the great and good have not come up with anything yet? Even, as I suggest, a list of six contingencies that could be chosen from when the deed is done and the UK is out of the EU?
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
Just for the record as i have also said before... I have an irish passport nailed to my own notice board at work as sadly my viscous barstard grandfather came from dublin.
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
Just for the record as i have also said before... I have an irish passport nailed to my own notice board at work as sadly my viscous barstard grandfather came from dublin.
But you presumably applied for that passport ? Would like to know why given your comments.
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
Just for the record as i have also said before... I have an irish passport nailed to my own notice board at work as sadly my viscous barstard grandfather came from dublin.
But you presumably applied for that passport ? Would like to know why given your comments.
I have said this before. The guy opposite me at work who was a staunch remainer, like most on here harped on for months whinging about it and the factr he was going to move to Ireland, Scotland or wherever that was in the EU. He applied but his ancestry wss too adrift of the requirement. Mine wasn't sadly so i got one to shut him up. He is of course still there sitting opposite me. I didn't pay for the passport, the taxpayer did.
For the record my grandfather fought for the British (isles) with the Royal Munster Fusiliers in the Sudan and WW1, he was on the Somme. He was a professional soldier and a very proud Irishman who was subsequently caught up in the early conflicts during the oppressive black and tan era and the start of the Irish Free State, before retiring to very rural chicken farming and drinking. His story is not uncommon from an era when the reach of Westminster was across the British Isles. The distain shown towards the Irish by some British people from closer to London than Dublin is contemptible in my view. Whenever I hear those age old prejudices emerge I understand again why many in Ireland feel so alienated from many in (mainly) England. There are many issues with Irishness, and Irish nationalism in particular, in addition to the previous iron grip of the Catholic Church and the general guilt industry in the land. However there are many more positives that flow from Ireland, not least because population dispersal has created an Irish rooted tribe who are much more internationalist than most. I make no apologies for going on about the border and Brexit, and though I was born in Kent I hold my Irish passport with considerable pride. If some little Englander racists have a problem with that, it can contaminate their lives not mine.
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
Just for the record as i have also said before... I have an irish passport nailed to my own notice board at work as sadly my viscous barstard grandfather came from dublin.
But you presumably applied for that passport ? Would like to know why given your comments.
I have said this before. The guy opposite me at work who was a staunch remainer, like most on here harped on for months whinging about it and the factr he was going to move to Ireland, Scotland or wherever that was in the EU. He applied but his ancestry wss too adrift of the requirement. Mine wasn't sadly so i got one to shut him up. He is of course still there sitting opposite me. I didn't pay for the passport, the taxpayer did.
Why sadly. That’s a pretty shitty comment unless I’m reading it wrong.
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
Just for the record as i have also said before... I have an irish passport nailed to my own notice board at work as sadly my viscous barstard grandfather came from dublin.
But you presumably applied for that passport ? Would like to know why given your comments.
I have said this before. The guy opposite me at work who was a staunch remainer, like most on here harped on for months whinging about it and the factr he was going to move to Ireland, Scotland or wherever that was in the EU. He applied but his ancestry wss too adrift of the requirement. Mine wasn't sadly so i got one to shut him up. He is of course still there sitting opposite me. I didn't pay for the passport, the taxpayer did.
I don't believe that. You are on a wind up. People don't apply for passports just to win an argument about politics with a bloke at work. Do they?
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
So, because a tiny minority of the population indirectly effected your life over 20 years ago you're quite happy to say "fuck 'em" and throw thousands upon thousands of innocents, many of whom weren't even alive when you were "dodging bombs", into a chaotic, and potentially violent situation. Lovely
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
So, because a tiny minority of the population indirectly effected your life over 20 years ago you're quite happy to say "fuck 'em" and throw thousands upon thousands of innocents, many of whom weren't even alive when you were "dodging bombs", into a chaotic, and potentially violent situation. Lovely
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
So, because a tiny minority of the population indirectly effected your life over 20 years ago you're quite happy to say "fuck 'em" and throw thousands upon thousands of innocents, many of whom weren't even alive when you were "dodging bombs", into a chaotic, and potentially violent situation. Lovely
Read my posts fully before commenting again please... Cant comment further as at the match.... Are you.
But Randy, if there is a violent outcome (which nobody wants) won't it be their own countrymen that are to blame ?
Of course, but let's use an imperfect analogy. You go out and leave your front door open, and get burgled. Now clearly the thieves are to blame for stealing your stuff, but I'm sure you would agree that leaving your front door wide open invited the problem?
Closing the Irish border and braking the good Friday agreement will cause major problems that wouldn't exist if the status quo was maintained. Just saying that those who then cause trouble shouldn't, won't actually make any difference.
Comments
Don't give up on the discussion please. Somebody like you, who thought long and hard about how they voted, has the power to make committed Remainers like me stop and think, how the hell did the remain side lose the vote of someone like you?
And by the way I meant to answer, tell your son, Czech is an absolute bastard of a language to master, but less so when you are in the country, and especially in one of its pubs :-) If he would want any advice about whether it is worth giving it a try out here, don't hesitate to PM me.
Give myself a yellow card for that.
"partisan" ?
For those who can't view tweets, the result was 54.8% Remain and 45.2% Leave.
A long shot for the Remainers...
Tempted though I am to now add another post, for this link, I'll just add it here, it's about the border in Ireland: https://irishtimes.com/opinion/cliff-taylor-government-faces-first-crunch-moment-in-brexit-talks-1.3279091?mode=amp.
From the day after the Brexit vote one thing I have banged on about relentlessly is the 400km land border on the island of Ireland.
From what we know there has been no progress towards a solution, and vocal brexiters, be they politicians, or Weatherspoons/Dyson owners, or pro Brexit media people or brexiters on here have basically ignored the issue hoping it will either go away or be solved by somebody, but not them.
I have made more suggestions as to the border than any brexiters.
However the government position that they can't move on the issue until they know the future trading relationship is yet another avoidance tactic.
There are not an infinite number of possibilities or solutions, there are probably half a dozen at most. The UK government ought to state what they would do in each of those (half dozen?) scenarios. It isn't even a case of showing a hand during negotiations either. It is a case of clear answers being supplied.
Those who voted Brexit we are told want to control the UK border. Yet none of them suggest a solution, no wonder they want to shut the debate down, not because it is fractious, but because continuing the debate exposes the weakness of their position more and more day by day.
Apologies.
However I think you might find that your ideas and Dippenhalls have withered away in the face of scrutiny and logic. Come back at me on that point if you wish.
Are you not also rather surprised that the great and good have not come up with anything yet? Even, as I suggest, a list of six contingencies that could be chosen from when the deed is done and the UK is out of the EU?
Just for the record as i have also said before... I have an irish passport nailed to my own notice board at work as sadly my viscous barstard grandfather came from dublin.
His story is not uncommon from an era when the reach of Westminster was across the British Isles.
The distain shown towards the Irish by some British people from closer to London than Dublin is contemptible in my view. Whenever I hear those age old prejudices emerge I understand again why many in Ireland feel so alienated from many in (mainly) England.
There are many issues with Irishness, and Irish nationalism in particular, in addition to the previous iron grip of the Catholic Church and the general guilt industry in the land. However there are many more positives that flow from Ireland, not least because population dispersal has created an Irish rooted tribe who are much more internationalist than most.
I make no apologies for going on about the border and Brexit, and though I was born in Kent I hold my Irish passport with considerable pride. If some little Englander racists have a problem with that, it can contaminate their lives not mine.
Closing the Irish border and braking the good Friday agreement will cause major problems that wouldn't exist if the status quo was maintained. Just saying that those who then cause trouble shouldn't, won't actually make any difference.