Must have been out that day when my vote came in to join this freely entered treaty. How democratic of the british government and paradise island EU to give me that choice... They did didn't they.
That's amazing, the UK government has run every other international treaty and deal past you, yet some how, in this one unique, never to be repeated instance, they didn't ask you personally if it was ok.
Because that's how it works, right? We get a direct vote on every single individual decision the government make.
Oh wait, it's not and you're talking absolute bollocks, Presumably when you voted leave to "return sovereignty to parliament" you didn't have a fucking clue what any of that actually meant.
I've tried really really hard to be polite and civil in all my responses in political threads, but you're making it so hard to maintain that record.
Must have been out that day when my vote came in to join this freely entered treaty. How democratic of the british government and paradise island EU to give me that choice... They did didn't they.
Just as was the case when joining NATO, or the UN, or any other Treaty.
One of the biggest arguments in favour of Brexit was the superiority of Westminster's particular flavour of Parliamentary democracy, which is what happened in these cases.
The 1975 referendum, just like that of last year, was about remaining in or leaving.
Whether a choice is ever offered to the UK electorate has always been at the discretion of HMG - the EU does not, and never has, told any member state the process by which any EU Treaties may be approved and, contrary to popular misconceptions, did not tell the Irish Government to re-run any referenda that it held. These decisions are the preserve of the member states, all that the EU requires is that the decision to approve or reject any EU Treaty is legal, meeting the constitutional requirements of each state.
Must have been out that day when my vote came in to join this freely entered treaty. How democratic of the british government and paradise island EU to give me that choice... They did didn't they.
That's amazing, the UK government has run every other international treaty and deal past you, yet some how, in this one unique, never to be repeated instance, they didn't ask you personally if it was ok.
Because that's how it works, right? We get a direct vote on every single individual decision the government make.
Oh wait, it's not and you're talking absolute bollocks, Presumably when you voted leave to "return sovereignty to parliament" you didn't have a fucking clue what any of that actually meant.
I've tried really really hard to be polite and civil in all my responses in political threads, but you're making it so hard to maintain that record.
Don't, be free no-one else has... Got called a little englander racist over the weekend by someone who previously had handshook never to reply to my comments... Just shows how honourable some people are here... I wont kiss their backsides, if you wantr to o carry on.
The EU when it suirts you lort sends out a load of fantsdtic directives, they could also on this one. Maybe they were concentrating chasing their lost billions in the isle of man.
Must have been out that day when my vote came in to join this freely entered treaty. How democratic of the british government and paradise island EU to give me that choice... They did didn't they.
Just as was the case when joining NATO, or the UN, or any other Treaty.
One of the biggest arguments in favour of Brexit was the superiority of Westminster's particular flavour of Parliamentary democracy, which is what happened in these cases.
The 1975 referendum, just like that of last year, was about remaining in or leaving.
Whether a choice is ever offered to the UK electorate has always been at the discretion of HMG - the EU does not, and never has, told any member state the process by which any EU Treaties may be approved and, contrary to popular misconceptions, did not tell the Irish Government to re-run any referenda that it held. These decisions are the preserve of the member states, all that the EU requires is that the decision to approve or reject any EU Treaty is legal, meeting the constitutional requirements of each state.
You started this by askng another boring question on sarturday directly to me about the irish border, again something that had nothing to do with it at that point.. Why dont you ask the same questions to the your nominated member of parliment.
Must have been out that day when my vote came in to join this freely entered treaty. How democratic of the british government and paradise island EU to give me that choice... They did didn't they.
Just as was the case when joining NATO, or the UN, or any other Treaty.
One of the biggest arguments in favour of Brexit was the superiority of Westminster's particular flavour of Parliamentary democracy, which is what happened in these cases.
The 1975 referendum, just like that of last year, was about remaining in or leaving.
Whether a choice is ever offered to the UK electorate has always been at the discretion of HMG - the EU does not, and never has, told any member state the process by which any EU Treaties may be approved and, contrary to popular misconceptions, did not tell the Irish Government to re-run any referenda that it held. These decisions are the preserve of the member states, all that the EU requires is that the decision to approve or reject any EU Treaty is legal, meeting the constitutional requirements of each state.
You started this by askng another boring question on sarturday directly to me about the irish border, again something that had nothing to do with it at that point.. Why dont you ask the same questions to the your nominated member of parliment.
Well, for what it's worth, I made a jokey comment about how, between the pair of us, we could stop this thread from disappearing, in response to yours that, if only people (including you on that occasion) would stop posting to the thread, it would sink.
Then, rather than add another post, I suggested that some might find the link interesting - I mentioned it was about the Irish border, because I know not everyone is interested, and could ignore it as they saw fit.
Obviously, having written the post, I thought it was fairly clear. However, you have disabused me of this notion.
So shall we cancel hard Brexit because we cannot resollve the NI/ROI border issue ?
Yes.
So does that mean the voters in the 1970's who voted to join the EEC did not realise that we would never be able to leave - even though there was an "article 50 (or whatever it was called then) " option in the agreement to join ?
When the EEC morphed into the EU via the Maastricht treaty - parliament voted but the voters did not get a direct say in giving up our sovereignty
If so, I reckon they were misled.
Quite apart from everything else written by @Stig , @Algarveaddick and @NornIrishAddick . What has what you have to say got to do with your original question?
You asked, "So shall we cancel hard Brexit because we cannot resolve the NI/ROI border issue ?" And I replied "Yes".
Unless of course you are pointing out the deficiencies of giving a yes/no answer to a complex question, which if that is the case I whole heatedly agree with you.
Well my logic is this.
Nobody can think of a suitable solution to the NI/ROI border issue that suits all concerned - so perhaps there isn't one.
Hence, all the time the ROI is in the EU we can never (fully) leave.
So, many years ago the voters ratified a Parliamentary decision to be in the EEC(EU).
Was anyone told then that we would be unable to leave unless we had a NI/ROI border solution ?
I think not - but (as always) am open to correction.
My post has everything to do with it, because as a nation we can't reach agreement to leave the EU unless THEY are satisfied with our border solution proposals. So unless ROI leaves the EU - and we keep the status quo border situation, we are stuck.
Was anyone told then that we would be unable to leave unless we had a NI/ROI border solution ?
I think not - but (as always) am open to correction.
How would anybody be told in 1972, that the Good Friday Agreement signed over 25 years later would have an impact on our relationship with the EU?
And how does 2 treaties that our sovereign parliament freely entered into, but are incompatible under the new circumstances equate to a loss of sovereignty in any way shape or form, unless you're starting from a position of "we've lost sovereignty, I now need to find someway to explain that whilst making it the EUs fault".
Must have been out that day when my vote came in to join this freely entered treaty. How democratic of the british government and paradise island EU to give me that choice... They did didn't they.
That's amazing, the UK government has run every other international treaty and deal past you, yet some how, in this one unique, never to be repeated instance, they didn't ask you personally if it was ok.
Because that's how it works, right? We get a direct vote on every single individual decision the government make.
Oh wait, it's not and you're talking absolute bollocks, Presumably when you voted leave to "return sovereignty to parliament" you didn't have a fucking clue what any of that actually meant.
I've tried really really hard to be polite and civil in all my responses in political threads, but you're making it so hard to maintain that record.
Don't, be free no-one else has... Got called a little englander racist over the weekend by someone who previously had handshook never to reply to my comments... Just shows how honourable some people are here... I wont kiss their backsides, if you wantr to o carry on.
The EU when it suirts you lort sends out a load of fantsdtic directives, they could also on this one. Maybe they were concentrating chasing their lost billions in the isle of man.
Swearing... So demeaning
If you are referring to me you are wrong. I have never referred to you directly as a little Englander racist. This is what i wrote:
For the record my grandfather fought for the British (isles) with the Royal Munster Fusiliers in the Sudan and WW1, he was on the Somme. He was a professional soldier and a very proud Irishman who was subsequently caught up in the early conflicts during the oppressive black and tan era and the start of the Irish Free State, before retiring to very rural chicken farming and drinking. His story is not uncommon from an era when the reach of Westminster was across the British Isles. The distain shown towards the Irish by some British people from closer to London than Dublin is contemptible in my view. Whenever I hear those age old prejudices emerge I understand again why many in Ireland feel so alienated from many in (mainly) England. There are many issues with Irishness, and Irish nationalism in particular, in addition to the previous iron grip of the Catholic Church and the general guilt industry in the land. However there are many more positives that flow from Ireland, not least because population dispersal has created an Irish rooted tribe who are much more internationalist than most. I make no apologies for going on about the border and Brexit, and though I was born in Kent I hold my Irish passport with considerable pride. If some little Englander racists have a problem with that, it can contaminate their lives not mine.
However if you wish to bring up the concept of honour this is something you wrote:
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
Just for the record as i have also said before... I have an irish passport nailed to my own notice board at work as sadly my viscous barstard grandfather came from dublin.
As an honourable brexiter to say that the part of your country, Northern Ireland, was of no interest to you when you voted your country out of the EU does not appear to be in any way honourable to me.
Must have been out that day when my vote came in to join this freely entered treaty. How democratic of the british government and paradise island EU to give me that choice... They did didn't they.
That's amazing, the UK government has run every other international treaty and deal past you, yet some how, in this one unique, never to be repeated instance, they didn't ask you personally if it was ok.
Because that's how it works, right? We get a direct vote on every single individual decision the government make.
Oh wait, it's not and you're talking absolute bollocks, Presumably when you voted leave to "return sovereignty to parliament" you didn't have a fucking clue what any of that actually meant.
I've tried really really hard to be polite and civil in all my responses in political threads, but you're making it so hard to maintain that record.
Don't, be free no-one else has... Got called a little englander racist over the weekend by someone who previously had handshook never to reply to my comments... Just shows how honourable some people are here... I wont kiss their backsides, if you wantr to o carry on.
The EU when it suirts you lort sends out a load of fantsdtic directives, they could also on this one. Maybe they were concentrating chasing their lost billions in the isle of man.
Swearing... So demeaning
If you are referring to me you are wrong. I have never referred to you directly as a little Englander racist. This is what i wrote:
For the record my grandfather fought for the British (isles) with the Royal Munster Fusiliers in the Sudan and WW1, he was on the Somme. He was a professional soldier and a very proud Irishman who was subsequently caught up in the early conflicts during the oppressive black and tan era and the start of the Irish Free State, before retiring to very rural chicken farming and drinking. His story is not uncommon from an era when the reach of Westminster was across the British Isles. The distain shown towards the Irish by some British people from closer to London than Dublin is contemptible in my view. Whenever I hear those age old prejudices emerge I understand again why many in Ireland feel so alienated from many in (mainly) England. There are many issues with Irishness, and Irish nationalism in particular, in addition to the previous iron grip of the Catholic Church and the general guilt industry in the land. However there are many more positives that flow from Ireland, not least because population dispersal has created an Irish rooted tribe who are much more internationalist than most. I make no apologies for going on about the border and Brexit, and though I was born in Kent I hold my Irish passport with considerable pride. If some little Englander racists have a problem with that, it can contaminate their lives not mine.
However if you wish to bring up the concept of honour this is something you wrote:
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
Just for the record as i have also said before... I have an irish passport nailed to my own notice board at work as sadly my viscous barstard grandfather came from dublin.
As an honourable brexiter to say that the part of your country, Northern Ireland, was of no interest to you when you voted your country out of the EU does not appear to be in any way honourable to me.
Pull the other one, it was in reply to my post and was clearly aimed at me, why mention it then. Up to that moment you were only one of two people here i genuinely liked, the other surprisingly is prague.
Must have been out that day when my vote came in to join this freely entered treaty. How democratic of the british government and paradise island EU to give me that choice... They did didn't they.
That's amazing, the UK government has run every other international treaty and deal past you, yet some how, in this one unique, never to be repeated instance, they didn't ask you personally if it was ok.
Because that's how it works, right? We get a direct vote on every single individual decision the government make.
Oh wait, it's not and you're talking absolute bollocks, Presumably when you voted leave to "return sovereignty to parliament" you didn't have a fucking clue what any of that actually meant.
I've tried really really hard to be polite and civil in all my responses in political threads, but you're making it so hard to maintain that record.
Don't, be free no-one else has... Got called a little englander racist over the weekend by someone who previously had handshook never to reply to my comments... Just shows how honourable some people are here... I wont kiss their backsides, if you wantr to o carry on.
The EU when it suirts you lort sends out a load of fantsdtic directives, they could also on this one. Maybe they were concentrating chasing their lost billions in the isle of man.
Swearing... So demeaning
If you are referring to me you are wrong. I have never referred to you directly as a little Englander racist. This is what i wrote:
For the record my grandfather fought for the British (isles) with the Royal Munster Fusiliers in the Sudan and WW1, he was on the Somme. He was a professional soldier and a very proud Irishman who was subsequently caught up in the early conflicts during the oppressive black and tan era and the start of the Irish Free State, before retiring to very rural chicken farming and drinking. His story is not uncommon from an era when the reach of Westminster was across the British Isles. The distain shown towards the Irish by some British people from closer to London than Dublin is contemptible in my view. Whenever I hear those age old prejudices emerge I understand again why many in Ireland feel so alienated from many in (mainly) England. There are many issues with Irishness, and Irish nationalism in particular, in addition to the previous iron grip of the Catholic Church and the general guilt industry in the land. However there are many more positives that flow from Ireland, not least because population dispersal has created an Irish rooted tribe who are much more internationalist than most. I make no apologies for going on about the border and Brexit, and though I was born in Kent I hold my Irish passport with considerable pride. If some little Englander racists have a problem with that, it can contaminate their lives not mine.
However if you wish to bring up the concept of honour this is something you wrote:
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
Just for the record as i have also said before... I have an irish passport nailed to my own notice board at work as sadly my viscous barstard grandfather came from dublin.
As an honourable brexiter to say that the part of your country, Northern Ireland, was of no interest to you when you voted your country out of the EU does not appear to be in any way honourable to me.
Pull the other one, it was in reply to my post and was clearly aimed at me, why mention it then. Up to that moment you were only one of two people here i genuinely liked, the other surprisingly is prague.
If I had wanted it to be clearly aimed at you I would have said so directly. You have decided that the post was aimed at you, and I am certainly not here to be liked by anybody but to sustain the debate regarding brexit, however my post was aimed at those who are nakedly rude and racist towards the Irish, one of whom I believe was banned previously. I had no hand in any banning by the way, but it happened.
Must have been out that day when my vote came in to join this freely entered treaty. How democratic of the british government and paradise island EU to give me that choice... They did didn't they.
So shall we cancel hard Brexit because we cannot resollve the NI/ROI border issue ?
Yes.
So does that mean the voters in the 1970's who voted to join the EEC did not realise that we would never be able to leave - even though there was an "article 50 (or whatever it was called then) " option in the agreement to join ?
When the EEC morphed into the EU via the Maastricht treaty - parliament voted but the voters did not get a direct say in giving up our sovereignty
If so, I reckon they were misled.
Quite apart from everything else written by @Stig , @Algarveaddick and @NornIrishAddick . What has what you have to say got to do with your original question?
You asked, "So shall we cancel hard Brexit because we cannot resolve the NI/ROI border issue ?" And I replied "Yes".
Unless of course you are pointing out the deficiencies of giving a yes/no answer to a complex question, which if that is the case I whole heatedly agree with you.
Well my logic is this.
Nobody can think of a suitable solution to the NI/ROI border issue that suits all concerned - so perhaps there isn't one.
Hence, all the time the ROI is in the EU we can never (fully) leave.
So, many years ago the voters ratified a Parliamentary decision to be in the EEC(EU).
Was anyone told then that we would be unable to leave unless we had a NI/ROI border solution ?
I think not - but (as always) am open to correction.
My post has everything to do with it, because as a nation we can't reach agreement to leave the EU unless THEY are satisfied with our border solution proposals. So unless ROI leaves the EU - and we keep the status quo border situation, we are stuck.
Yet some claim we have not lost our sovereignty ?
The most suitable solution to the Irish border difficulty is one that the current UK Government have rejected (being continued, but non-EU, membership of the Single Market and/or Customs Union).
This is the same UK Government that believes, heroically in the absence of any supporting evidence, that the current seamless and invisible border situation can be retained without such membership.
The EU is much more a legal construct than just a free trade area. It is rules-based, and these rules serve to provide standards and rights that are equally applicable and enforceable across the bloc. The external borders of the EU are managed in order to protect these standards and rights. An open door policy on any EU external frontiers is incompatible with such protection.
The Single Market has (by being a market that is single) encouraged cross-border trade and manufacturing integration to an extent that has never been seen before. All internal land borders are likely to have similar problems to Ireland. However, in Ireland the (what I am unreliably informed are vertically integrated) cross border activities include significant agri-business production. It is already the case that livestock cannot just be brought across the border willy nilly - with the essential sanitary and phyto-sanitary checks that food products must undergo, the ability of business, North and South, to profit in a non-Single Market/Customs Union post-Brexit world will be significantly diminished.
The UK line, at present, is that a significant majority of all Ireland trade would be allowed to continue as now, without any form of check. For the rest, we are promised, as yet untested, even undesigned, technical solutions and a degree of wishful thinking.
In the absence of a trade agreement, and (IMHO) such an agreement is unlikely, given the complexity of the trading relationships, even within a two year transition, this policy would have to apply to all WTO members (because it also is a rules based organisation). It is quite frankly arrant nonsense, as it ignores the most basic and fundamental positions of the EU in relation to world trade, and also undermines the UK's ability to screen imports appropriately.
There is no appetite for Ireland to leave the EU, a huge amount of its recent prosperity is reliant on its EU membership. Corporation tax had been low for decades without noticeably fabulous economic development.
Equally, the Good Friday Agreement established a number of rights and obligations upon both the UK and Irish Governments in relation to Northern Ireland, and most experts believe that Brexit threatens the balance and peace, imperfect though it undoubtedly is, of its settlement.
I will mention the potential for additional targets for the dissidents from any customs infrastructure, and those who maintain and operate it (even cameras) because, as previously mentioned, I am just a little ray of sunshine.
Nothing is stopping the UK from leaving, because it is a sovereign state, and has the right to withdraw from agreements it has signed. But the UK Government has a responsibility to be honest with the people of the UK and to be realistic in it's negotiations, not simply to repeat that it wants an imaginative, flexible and creative solution - something approaching an understanding of the problems and practicalities would be better.
Must have been out that day when my vote came in to join this freely entered treaty. How democratic of the british government and paradise island EU to give me that choice... They did didn't they.
That's amazing, the UK government has run every other international treaty and deal past you, yet some how, in this one unique, never to be repeated instance, they didn't ask you personally if it was ok.
Because that's how it works, right? We get a direct vote on every single individual decision the government make.
Oh wait, it's not and you're talking absolute bollocks, Presumably when you voted leave to "return sovereignty to parliament" you didn't have a fucking clue what any of that actually meant.
I've tried really really hard to be polite and civil in all my responses in political threads, but you're making it so hard to maintain that record.
Don't, be free no-one else has... Got called a little englander racist over the weekend by someone who previously had handshook never to reply to my comments... Just shows how honourable some people are here... I wont kiss their backsides, if you wantr to o carry on.
The EU when it suirts you lort sends out a load of fantsdtic directives, they could also on this one. Maybe they were concentrating chasing their lost billions in the isle of man.
Swearing... So demeaning
If you are referring to me you are wrong. I have never referred to you directly as a little Englander racist. This is what i wrote:
For the record my grandfather fought for the British (isles) with the Royal Munster Fusiliers in the Sudan and WW1, he was on the Somme. He was a professional soldier and a very proud Irishman who was subsequently caught up in the early conflicts during the oppressive black and tan era and the start of the Irish Free State, before retiring to very rural chicken farming and drinking. His story is not uncommon from an era when the reach of Westminster was across the British Isles. The distain shown towards the Irish by some British people from closer to London than Dublin is contemptible in my view. Whenever I hear those age old prejudices emerge I understand again why many in Ireland feel so alienated from many in (mainly) England. There are many issues with Irishness, and Irish nationalism in particular, in addition to the previous iron grip of the Catholic Church and the general guilt industry in the land. However there are many more positives that flow from Ireland, not least because population dispersal has created an Irish rooted tribe who are much more internationalist than most. I make no apologies for going on about the border and Brexit, and though I was born in Kent I hold my Irish passport with considerable pride. If some little Englander racists have a problem with that, it can contaminate their lives not mine.
However if you wish to bring up the concept of honour this is something you wrote:
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
Just for the record as i have also said before... I have an irish passport nailed to my own notice board at work as sadly my viscous barstard grandfather came from dublin.
As an honourable brexiter to say that the part of your country, Northern Ireland, was of no interest to you when you voted your country out of the EU does not appear to be in any way honourable to me.
Pull the other one, it was in reply to my post and was clearly aimed at me, why mention it then. Up to that moment you were only one of two people here i genuinely liked, the other surprisingly is prague.
Also one about how we could stay in the single market and control EU migration
I swear I heard these earth-shattering ideas somewhere before. You know, somewhere that doesn't deliberately aim for the gutter and before the referendum took place.
Must have been out that day when my vote came in to join this freely entered treaty. How democratic of the british government and paradise island EU to give me that choice... They did didn't they.
That's amazing, the UK government has run every other international treaty and deal past you, yet some how, in this one unique, never to be repeated instance, they didn't ask you personally if it was ok.
Because that's how it works, right? We get a direct vote on every single individual decision the government make.
Oh wait, it's not and you're talking absolute bollocks, Presumably when you voted leave to "return sovereignty to parliament" you didn't have a fucking clue what any of that actually meant.
I've tried really really hard to be polite and civil in all my responses in political threads, but you're making it so hard to maintain that record.
Don't, be free no-one else has... Got called a little englander racist over the weekend by someone who previously had handshook never to reply to my comments... Just shows how honourable some people are here... I wont kiss their backsides, if you wantr to o carry on.
The EU when it suirts you lort sends out a load of fantsdtic directives, they could also on this one. Maybe they were concentrating chasing their lost billions in the isle of man.
Swearing... So demeaning
If you are referring to me you are wrong. I have never referred to you directly as a little Englander racist. This is what i wrote:
For the record my grandfather fought for the British (isles) with the Royal Munster Fusiliers in the Sudan and WW1, he was on the Somme. He was a professional soldier and a very proud Irishman who was subsequently caught up in the early conflicts during the oppressive black and tan era and the start of the Irish Free State, before retiring to very rural chicken farming and drinking. His story is not uncommon from an era when the reach of Westminster was across the British Isles. The distain shown towards the Irish by some British people from closer to London than Dublin is contemptible in my view. Whenever I hear those age old prejudices emerge I understand again why many in Ireland feel so alienated from many in (mainly) England. There are many issues with Irishness, and Irish nationalism in particular, in addition to the previous iron grip of the Catholic Church and the general guilt industry in the land. However there are many more positives that flow from Ireland, not least because population dispersal has created an Irish rooted tribe who are much more internationalist than most. I make no apologies for going on about the border and Brexit, and though I was born in Kent I hold my Irish passport with considerable pride. If some little Englander racists have a problem with that, it can contaminate their lives not mine.
However if you wish to bring up the concept of honour this is something you wrote:
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
Just for the record as i have also said before... I have an irish passport nailed to my own notice board at work as sadly my viscous barstard grandfather came from dublin.
As an honourable brexiter to say that the part of your country, Northern Ireland, was of no interest to you when you voted your country out of the EU does not appear to be in any way honourable to me.
Pull the other one, it was in reply to my post and was clearly aimed at me, why mention it then. Up to that moment you were only one of two people here i genuinely liked, the other surprisingly is prague.
??!!??****?
Charlton Life, eh?
Next up, @i_b_b_o_r_g invites me for dinner at his local brasserie to get advice on his French citizenship application
Comments
Because that's how it works, right? We get a direct vote on every single individual decision the government make.
Oh wait, it's not and you're talking absolute bollocks, Presumably when you voted leave to "return sovereignty to parliament" you didn't have a fucking clue what any of that actually meant.
I've tried really really hard to be polite and civil in all my responses in political threads, but you're making it so hard to maintain that record.
One of the biggest arguments in favour of Brexit was the superiority of Westminster's particular flavour of Parliamentary democracy, which is what happened in these cases.
The 1975 referendum, just like that of last year, was about remaining in or leaving.
Whether a choice is ever offered to the UK electorate has always been at the discretion of HMG - the EU does not, and never has, told any member state the process by which any EU Treaties may be approved and, contrary to popular misconceptions, did not tell the Irish Government to re-run any referenda that it held. These decisions are the preserve of the member states, all that the EU requires is that the decision to approve or reject any EU Treaty is legal, meeting the constitutional requirements of each state.
The EU when it suirts you lort sends out a load of fantsdtic directives, they could also on this one. Maybe they were concentrating chasing their lost billions in the isle of man.
Swearing... So demeaning
Then, rather than add another post, I suggested that some might find the link interesting - I mentioned it was about the Irish border, because I know not everyone is interested, and could ignore it as they saw fit.
Obviously, having written the post, I thought it was fairly clear. However, you have disabused me of this notion.
I thank you.
Nobody can think of a suitable solution to the NI/ROI border issue that suits all concerned - so perhaps there isn't one.
Hence, all the time the ROI is in the EU we can never (fully) leave.
So, many years ago the voters ratified a Parliamentary decision to be in the EEC(EU).
Was anyone told then that we would be unable to leave unless we had a NI/ROI border solution ?
I think not - but (as always) am open to correction.
My post has everything to do with it, because as a nation we can't reach agreement to leave the EU unless THEY are satisfied with our border solution proposals.
So unless ROI leaves the EU - and we keep the status quo border situation, we are stuck.
Yet some claim we have not lost our sovereignty ?
And how does 2 treaties that our sovereign parliament freely entered into, but are incompatible under the new circumstances equate to a loss of sovereignty in any way shape or form, unless you're starting from a position of "we've lost sovereignty, I now need to find someway to explain that whilst making it the EUs fault".
For the record my grandfather fought for the British (isles) with the Royal Munster Fusiliers in the Sudan and WW1, he was on the Somme. He was a professional soldier and a very proud Irishman who was subsequently caught up in the early conflicts during the oppressive black and tan era and the start of the Irish Free State, before retiring to very rural chicken farming and drinking.
His story is not uncommon from an era when the reach of Westminster was across the British Isles.
The distain shown towards the Irish by some British people from closer to London than Dublin is contemptible in my view. Whenever I hear those age old prejudices emerge I understand again why many in Ireland feel so alienated from many in (mainly) England.
There are many issues with Irishness, and Irish nationalism in particular, in addition to the previous iron grip of the Catholic Church and the general guilt industry in the land. However there are many more positives that flow from Ireland, not least because population dispersal has created an Irish rooted tribe who are much more internationalist than most.
I make no apologies for going on about the border and Brexit, and though I was born in Kent I hold my Irish passport with considerable pride. If some little Englander racists have a problem with that, it can contaminate their lives not mine.
However if you wish to bring up the concept of honour this is something you wrote:
As i said before... Many bloody times... Cant recall anybody from ireland ever voting in my favour or asking me. Just recall dodging bombs for 20 years. So ireland never has or never will be of any interest to me.
Just for the record as i have also said before... I have an irish passport nailed to my own notice board at work as sadly my viscous barstard grandfather came from dublin.
As an honourable brexiter to say that the part of your country, Northern Ireland, was of no interest to you when you voted your country out of the EU does not appear to be in any way honourable to me.
You have decided that the post was aimed at you, and I am certainly not here to be liked by anybody but to sustain the debate regarding brexit, however my post was aimed at those who are nakedly rude and racist towards the Irish, one of whom I believe was banned previously.
I had no hand in any banning by the way, but it happened.
This is the same UK Government that believes, heroically in the absence of any supporting evidence, that the current seamless and invisible border situation can be retained without such membership.
The EU is much more a legal construct than just a free trade area. It is rules-based, and these rules serve to provide standards and rights that are equally applicable and enforceable across the bloc. The external borders of the EU are managed in order to protect these standards and rights. An open door policy on any EU external frontiers is incompatible with such protection.
The Single Market has (by being a market that is single) encouraged cross-border trade and manufacturing integration to an extent that has never been seen before. All internal land borders are likely to have similar problems to Ireland. However, in Ireland the (what I am unreliably informed are vertically integrated) cross border activities include significant agri-business production. It is already the case that livestock cannot just be brought across the border willy nilly - with the essential sanitary and phyto-sanitary checks that food products must undergo, the ability of business, North and South, to profit in a non-Single Market/Customs Union post-Brexit world will be significantly diminished.
The UK line, at present, is that a significant majority of all Ireland trade would be allowed to continue as now, without any form of check. For the rest, we are promised, as yet untested, even undesigned, technical solutions and a degree of wishful thinking.
In the absence of a trade agreement, and (IMHO) such an agreement is unlikely, given the complexity of the trading relationships, even within a two year transition, this policy would have to apply to all WTO members (because it also is a rules based organisation). It is quite frankly arrant nonsense, as it ignores the most basic and fundamental positions of the EU in relation to world trade, and also undermines the UK's ability to screen imports appropriately.
There is no appetite for Ireland to leave the EU, a huge amount of its recent prosperity is reliant on its EU membership. Corporation tax had been low for decades without noticeably fabulous economic development.
Equally, the Good Friday Agreement established a number of rights and obligations upon both the UK and Irish Governments in relation to Northern Ireland, and most experts believe that Brexit threatens the balance and peace, imperfect though it undoubtedly is, of its settlement.
I will mention the potential for additional targets for the dissidents from any customs infrastructure, and those who maintain and operate it (even cameras) because, as previously mentioned, I am just a little ray of sunshine.
Nothing is stopping the UK from leaving, because it is a sovereign state, and has the right to withdraw from agreements it has signed. But the UK Government has a responsibility to be honest with the people of the UK and to be realistic in it's negotiations, not simply to repeat that it wants an imaginative, flexible and creative solution - something approaching an understanding of the problems and practicalities would be better.
Also one about how we could stay in the single market and control EU migration
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-41893598&ved=0ahUKEwisv7iQo63XAhVLOxoKHQP0DY0QyM8BCB0wAA&usg=AOvVaw0On_mN39ahsd8wPUcFRoCG&cf=1
You Remainers are missing out on the Brexit feelgood factor.
Charlton Life, eh?
Next up, @i_b_b_o_r_g invites me for dinner at his local brasserie to get advice on his French citizenship application
:-)
I accept it ain't your guys fault, we can't all be 100% right..... ; )
That is all.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-41908302
In fact he knows both things perfectly well.