Was anyone told then that we would be unable to leave unless we had a NI/ROI border solution ?
I think not - but (as always) am open to correction.
How would anybody be told in 1972, that the Good Friday Agreement signed over 25 years later would have an impact on our relationship with the EU?
And how does 2 treaties that our sovereign parliament freely entered into, but are incompatible under the new circumstances equate to a loss of sovereignty in any way shape or form, unless you're starting from a position of "we've lost sovereignty, I now need to find someway to explain that whilst making it the EUs fault".
So, you are saying that things and circumstances change over time ? Yes, I agree.
After Brexit, things will change again and we will have to adapt. One of these things will be how the NI/ROI border is run. It will change, and we will have to adapt.
If the EU or the rest of the world wants to hold us to ransom over trade, then yes, there could be hardship. We will have to adapt.
If there is dissident terrorism activity as a result of the changes (not good), we will have to deal with it - in the same way we already live with terrorism everyday in everything we do.
IMO, the UK shouldn't be reluctant to implement any border law/rule changes in case it incites terrorism activity, or continue to allow uncontrolled immigration into an already overcrowded UK. The puzzle of the NI/ROI border is how to reconcile these two things. If expert opinion is that they cannot be reconciled, then one of these two things has to be modified to suit. The EU says it cannot bend from the four freedoms of the EU (understandable), so that only leaves the way the border is operated.
Over to you guys..............
Seems to be popular so I’ll get in on the act. History is your friend.
Partition has never worked out well. In every instance it has been used to solve a problem it has invariably created an even worse one. It is always rejected by those that endure an artificial border most often with violence and breeds a deep and angry resentment. If anyone can offer me evidence to the contrary I will be amazed.
The border in Ireland since its inception has proved to be a costly in both monetary and in life. The relaxation of the existing border brought about by the Good Friday Agreement and joint membership of the EU has thankfully eased the tensions and allowed for what are now years of relatively trouble free times.
Any return to a regulated border will without question result in it being a gift to the men of violence and will cost hundreds of millions to maintain.
Glibly saying people will have to adapt is tantamount to washing your hands of the inevitable violence and chaos.
The border between the ROI and NI is a huge obstacle for successful Brexit negotiations to overcome. 18 months post referendum I am still yet to see an inch of movement in finding an acceptable solution.
OK - so we should cancel Brexit because we can't find a (peaceful) border solution. Hence we are in the EU forever, I guess.
I wonder how long after we cancel Brexit till the EU start upping our contribution ? Why not ? After all, we have put ourselves in a position where we can never leave so the EU might as well make hay while the sun is guaranteed to shine - pretty much forever.
Could be why Cameron came back empty(ish) handed from his pre-referendum visit. The EU fellas know we can't leave without creating a host of other insurmountable problems - so they have us right where they would like us.
Good old UK - damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
Until brexit happens we are in the EU. And certainly before the vote the 'EU fellas' was us as much as anything.
Seth - do you really believe that ?
The EU is Germany and France, the rest of us are just along for the ride - as was shown when Dave came back empty(ish) handed from his pre-referendum trip.
@Valiantphil do you really believe that? Run it past the average Dutchman and then stand back quickly before he can deck you.
It's a typical island mentality remark, and i say that more in sorrow than in anger.
Yep. All the Dutchies I know are pretty non-violent, but I willl heed your advice.
I wonder why there was talk of a Nexit straight after our vote. Seems there were some there contemplating leaving. Strange if they are as big hitters round the table as you suggest.
There was talk of a 'frexit' too when the national front was on the rise in France, strange as they are the eu big hitters you suggest.
Speaking as someone who has a residence and a business in France - the French are only interested in what's good for France. Most EU states are probably the same but not (in my experience) as sellf centred as France.
When France saw the UK vote result, they could see it would mean higher financial contributions from the remaining members - i e France.
Hence the talk of Frexit. The finance issue coupled with the terror attacks they had experienced gave rise to a call for change - which has subsided somewhat at the moment.
But what if the Germans propose something that doesn't fit well with French interests? Cos you said above that the EU is basically the French and Germans running the thing together....
I note also that you have revealed your "residence" and business in France. Lets hope your French neighbours and colleagues are understanding of your views on Brexit, then, and you don't suffer the same treatment as too many Poles in the U.K. right now. Still since you don't seem to care much for the French, perhaps you will do the decent thing and sell up, and commit yourself 100% to the sunlit uplands of the U.K. under the leadership of the Cartoon Aristocrat.
There are probably occasions with the French and Germans disagree as you describe above. I suspect it usually ends with the Germans getting their way (because they pay the bills) and France writing in a clause that allows them to do as they like
You may be surprised at the views on Brexit in France. In my experience they are not surprised at the referendum result.
I have a residence in France. I live in U.K mostly.
Post Brexit - France will say to me "are you bringing anything to the party here?"
I will say , "yes, local employment and taxation revenue"
They may say "sling your hook" - but I very much doubt it.
Like most Brexit stuff - We will see.
Do you not stop to consider that you have this residence, and you have your business, in no small part because of Britain's EU membership?
Just as another prominent Brexiteer Lifer has received important health care in France only because the relevant EU directive has allowed him and other British citizens the facility to seek such care anywhere in the Union.
In both cases Brexit will deny future generations these important life-changing advantages you have both enjoyed.
Forgive me for putting it this bluntly , but why should people not see this as the most grotesque hypocrisy?
Was anyone told then that we would be unable to leave unless we had a NI/ROI border solution ?
I think not - but (as always) am open to correction.
How would anybody be told in 1972, that the Good Friday Agreement signed over 25 years later would have an impact on our relationship with the EU?
And how does 2 treaties that our sovereign parliament freely entered into, but are incompatible under the new circumstances equate to a loss of sovereignty in any way shape or form, unless you're starting from a position of "we've lost sovereignty, I now need to find someway to explain that whilst making it the EUs fault".
So, you are saying that things and circumstances change over time ? Yes, I agree.
After Brexit, things will change again and we will have to adapt. One of these things will be how the NI/ROI border is run. It will change, and we will have to adapt.
If the EU or the rest of the world wants to hold us to ransom over trade, then yes, there could be hardship. We will have to adapt.
If there is dissident terrorism activity as a result of the changes (not good), we will have to deal with it - in the same way we already live with terrorism everyday in everything we do.
IMO, the UK shouldn't be reluctant to implement any border law/rule changes in case it incites terrorism activity, or continue to allow uncontrolled immigration into an already overcrowded UK. The puzzle of the NI/ROI border is how to reconcile these two things. If expert opinion is that they cannot be reconciled, then one of these two things has to be modified to suit. The EU says it cannot bend from the four freedoms of the EU (understandable), so that only leaves the way the border is operated.
Over to you guys..............
Seems to be popular so I’ll get in on the act. History is your friend.
Partition has never worked out well. In every instance it has been used to solve a problem it has invariably created an even worse one. It is always rejected by those that endure an artificial border most often with violence and breeds a deep and angry resentment. If anyone can offer me evidence to the contrary I will be amazed.
The border in Ireland since its inception has proved to be a costly in both monetary and in life. The relaxation of the existing border brought about by the Good Friday Agreement and joint membership of the EU has thankfully eased the tensions and allowed for what are now years of relatively trouble free times.
Any return to a regulated border will without question result in it being a gift to the men of violence and will cost hundreds of millions to maintain.
Glibly saying people will have to adapt is tantamount to washing your hands of the inevitable violence and chaos.
The border between the ROI and NI is a huge obstacle for successful Brexit negotiations to overcome. 18 months post referendum I am still yet to see an inch of movement in finding an acceptable solution.
OK - so we should cancel Brexit because we can't find a (peaceful) border solution. Hence we are in the EU forever, I guess.
I wonder how long after we cancel Brexit till the EU start upping our contribution ? Why not ? After all, we have put ourselves in a position where we can never leave so the EU might as well make hay while the sun is guaranteed to shine - pretty much forever.
Could be why Cameron came back empty(ish) handed from his pre-referendum visit. The EU fellas know we can't leave without creating a host of other insurmountable problems - so they have us right where they would like us.
Good old UK - damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
Until brexit happens we are in the EU. And certainly before the vote the 'EU fellas' was us as much as anything.
Seth - do you really believe that ?
The EU is Germany and France, the rest of us are just along for the ride - as was shown when Dave came back empty(ish) handed from his pre-referendum trip.
@Valiantphil do you really believe that? Run it past the average Dutchman and then stand back quickly before he can deck you.
It's a typical island mentality remark, and i say that more in sorrow than in anger.
Yep. All the Dutchies I know are pretty non-violent, but I willl heed your advice.
I wonder why there was talk of a Nexit straight after our vote. Seems there were some there contemplating leaving. Strange if they are as big hitters round the table as you suggest.
There was talk of a 'frexit' too when the national front was on the rise in France, strange as they are the eu big hitters you suggest.
Speaking as someone who has a residence and a business in France - the French are only interested in what's good for France. Most EU states are probably the same but not (in my experience) as sellf centred as France.
When France saw the UK vote result, they could see it would mean higher financial contributions from the remaining members - i e France.
Hence the talk of Frexit. The finance issue coupled with the terror attacks they had experienced gave rise to a call for change - which has subsided somewhat at the moment.
But what if the Germans propose something that doesn't fit well with French interests? Cos you said above that the EU is basically the French and Germans running the thing together....
I note also that you have revealed your "residence" and business in France. Lets hope your French neighbours and colleagues are understanding of your views on Brexit, then, and you don't suffer the same treatment as too many Poles in the U.K. right now. Still since you don't seem to care much for the French, perhaps you will do the decent thing and sell up, and commit yourself 100% to the sunlit uplands of the U.K. under the leadership of the Cartoon Aristocrat.
There are probably occasions with the French and Germans disagree as you describe above. I suspect it usually ends with the Germans getting their way (because they pay the bills) and France writing in a clause that allows them to do as they like
You may be surprised at the views on Brexit in France. In my experience they are not surprised at the referendum result.
I have a residence in France. I live in U.K mostly.
Post Brexit - France will say to me "are you bringing anything to the party here?"
I will say , "yes, local employment and taxation revenue"
They may say "sling your hook" - but I very much doubt it.
Like most Brexit stuff - We will see.
Do you not stop to consider that you have this residence, and you have your business, in no small part because of Britain's EU membership?
Just as another prominent Brexiteer Lifer has received important health care in France only because the relevant EU directive has allowed him and other British citizens the facility to seek such care anywhere in the Union.
In both cases Brexit will deny future generations these important life-changing advantages you have both enjoyed.
Forgive me for putting it this bluntly , but why should people not see this as the most grotesque hypocrisy?
Most countries had restrictions of various types on foreign non-residents buying property.
Ditto for setting up companies (I mean, making that easier for EU citizens is pretty fundamental to the Single Market concept)
When it comes to healthcare, I suppose if you try getting a hip replacement op in Canada to beat the waiting list in the NHS, and expecting the NHS to pay for it, the response will give you an idea of what it was like across Europe if you had tried that before the directive came into force.
It has been highlighted how Brexit will likely leave the many British expats living in Spain and Portugal without access to affordable healthcare. And because property values in their new homes have failed to rise anywhere near as high as property values in the UK have, they can't even afford to return to the UK if they feel they need the NHS. It's an absolute scandal.
Most countries had restrictions of various types on foreign non-residents buying property.
Ditto for setting up companies (I mean, making that easier for EU citizens is pretty fundamental to the Single Market concept)
When it comes to healthcare, I suppose if you try getting a hip replacement op in Canada to beat the waiting list in the NHS, and expecting the NHS to pay for it, the response will give you an idea of what it was like across Europe if you had tried that before the directive came into force.
So it will be slightly different then. Hardly the end of the world.
Might need to factor private health insurance into the cost of enjoying a life abroad. Just like I've done in the various Asian countries I've lived in. Or the tens of thousands of Brits with homes in Turkey. Or the hundreds of thousands of non EU expats living in France perfectly happily.
PS Ask some of your Spanish friends how they (and more importantly Spanish healthcare workers)feel about the influx of north Africans taking advantage of their free health care
How would anybody be told in 1972, that the Good Friday Agreement signed over 25 years later would have an impact on our relationship with the EU?
And how does 2 treaties that our sovereign parliament freely entered into, but are incompatible under the new circumstances equate to a loss of sovereignty in any way shape or form, unless you're starting from a position of "we've lost sovereignty, I now need to find someway to explain that whilst making it the EUs fault".
So, you are saying that things and circumstances change over time ? Yes, I agree.
After Brexit, things will change again and we will have to adapt. One of these things will be how the NI/ROI border is run. It will change, and we will have to adapt.
If the EU or the rest of the world wants to hold us to ransom over trade, then yes, there could be hardship. We will have to adapt.
If there is dissident terrorism activity as a result of the changes (not good), we will have to deal with it - in the same way we already live with terrorism everyday in everything we do.
IMO, the UK shouldn't be reluctant to implement any border law/rule changes in case it incites terrorism activity, or continue to allow uncontrolled immigration into an already overcrowded UK. The puzzle of the NI/ROI border is how to reconcile these two things. If expert opinion is that they cannot be reconciled, then one of these two things has to be modified to suit. The EU says it cannot bend from the four freedoms of the EU (understandable), so that only leaves the way the border is operated.
Over to you guys..............
Seems to be popular so I’ll get in on the act. History is your friend.
Partition has never worked out well. In every instance it has been used to solve a problem it has invariably created an even worse one. It is always rejected by those that endure an artificial border most often with violence and breeds a deep and angry resentment. If anyone can offer me evidence to the contrary I will be amazed.
The border in Ireland since its inception has proved to be a costly in both monetary and in life. The relaxation of the existing border brought about by the Good Friday Agreement and joint membership of the EU has thankfully eased the tensions and allowed for what are now years of relatively trouble free times.
Any return to a regulated border will without question result in it being a gift to the men of violence and will cost hundreds of millions to maintain.
Glibly saying people will have to adapt is tantamount to washing your hands of the inevitable violence and chaos.
The border between the ROI and NI is a huge obstacle for successful Brexit negotiations to overcome. 18 months post referendum I am still yet to see an inch of movement in finding an acceptable solution.
OK - so we should cancel Brexit because we can't find a (peaceful) border solution. Hence we are in the EU forever, I guess.
I wonder how long after we cancel Brexit till the EU start upping our contribution ? Why not ? After all, we have put ourselves in a position where we can never leave so the EU might as well make hay while the sun is guaranteed to shine - pretty much forever.
Could be why Cameron came back empty(ish) handed from his pre-referendum visit. The EU fellas know we can't leave without creating a host of other insurmountable problems - so they have us right where they would like us.
Good old UK - damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
Until brexit happens we are in the EU. And certainly before the vote the 'EU fellas' was us as much as anything.
Seth - do you really believe that ?
The EU is Germany and France, the rest of us are just along for the ride - as was shown when Dave came back empty(ish) handed from his pre-referendum trip.
@Valiantphil do you really believe that? Run it past the average Dutchman and then stand back quickly before he can deck you.
It's a typical island mentality remark, and i say that more in sorrow than in anger.
Yep. All the Dutchies I know are pretty non-violent, but I willl heed your advice.
I wonder why there was talk of a Nexit straight after our vote. Seems there were some there contemplating leaving. Strange if they are as big hitters round the table as you suggest.
There was talk of a 'frexit' too when the national front was on the rise in France, strange as they are the eu big hitters you suggest.
Speaking as someone who has a residence and a business in France - the French are only interested in what's good for France. Most EU states are probably the same but not (in my experience) as sellf centred as France.
When France saw the UK vote result, they could see it would mean higher financial contributions from the remaining members - i e France.
Hence the talk of Frexit. The finance issue coupled with the terror attacks they had experienced gave rise to a call for change - which has subsided somewhat at the moment.
But what if the Germans propose something that doesn't fit well with French interests? Cos you said above that the EU is basically the French and Germans running the thing together....
I note also that you have revealed your "residence" and business in France. Lets hope your French neighbours and colleagues are understanding of your views on Brexit, then, and you don't suffer the same treatment as too many Poles in the U.K. right now. Still since you don't seem to care much for the French, perhaps you will do the decent thing and sell up, and commit yourself 100% to the sunlit uplands of the U.K. under the leadership of the Cartoon Aristocrat.
There are probably occasions with the French and Germans disagree as you describe above. I suspect it usually ends with the Germans getting their way (because they pay the bills) and France writing in a clause that allows them to do as they like
You may be surprised at the views on Brexit in France. In my experience they are not surprised at the referendum result.
I have a residence in France. I live in U.K mostly.
Post Brexit - France will say to me "are you bringing anything to the party here?"
I will say , "yes, local employment and taxation revenue"
They may say "sling your hook" - but I very much doubt it.
Like most Brexit stuff - We will see.
Do you not stop to consider that you have this residence, and you have your business, in no small part because of Britain's EU membership?
Just as another prominent Brexiteer Lifer has received important health care in France only because the relevant EU directive has allowed him and other British citizens the facility to seek such care anywhere in the Union.
In both cases Brexit will deny future generations these important life-changing advantages you have both enjoyed.
Forgive me for putting it this bluntly , but why should people not see this as the most grotesque hypocrisy?
Yes I agree and yes my brother lives in France and has had reciprocal healthcare as you describe.
But here's the twist - my country has paid for both - about 350 mill a week maybe ?
Future generations will have to
A) make an application for residency/commerce permit
It has been highlighted how Brexit will likely leave the many British expats living in Spain and Portugal without access to affordable healthcare. And because property values in their new homes have failed to rise anywhere near as high as property values in the UK have, they can't even afford to return to the UK if they feel they need the NHS. It's an absolute scandal.
It has been highlighted how Brexit will likely leave the many British expats living in Spain and Portugal without access to affordable healthcare. And because property values in their new homes have failed to rise anywhere near as high as property values in the UK have, they can't even afford to return to the UK if they feel they need the NHS. It's an absolute scandal.
Yup, it was funny when I posted it at the time of the referendum. It just looks sad now, I mean whet even is Britain First Spain - it's just three random words. Crazy name, crazy people
DO THE BREXIT - is that like a dance or something?
Sadly there is a breed of British expat that just do not see themselves as immigrants. I know a few of them out here in Canada. Some of the stuff they come out with about 'immigrants' beggers belief. Of course what those people really mean by immigrants are non-whites, it particular muslims, or anyone their ignorant brain thinks looks like a muslim.
Yup, it was funny when I posted it at the time of the referendum. It just looks sad now, I mean whet even is Britain First Spain - it's just three random words. Crazy name, crazy people
How could you have posted that tweet at the time of the referendum ?
Yup, it was funny when I posted it at the time of the referendum. It just looks sad now, I mean whet even is Britain First Spain - it's just three random words. Crazy name, crazy people
How could you have posted that tweet at the time of the referendum ?
Most countries had restrictions of various types on foreign non-residents buying property.
Ditto for setting up companies (I mean, making that easier for EU citizens is pretty fundamental to the Single Market concept)
When it comes to healthcare, I suppose if you try getting a hip replacement op in Canada to beat the waiting list in the NHS, and expecting the NHS to pay for it, the response will give you an idea of what it was like across Europe if you had tried that before the directive came into force.
So it will be slightly different then. Hardly the end of the world.
Might need to factor private health insurance into the cost of enjoying a life abroad. Just like I've done in the various Asian countries I've lived in. Or the tens of thousands of Brits with homes in Turkey. Or the hundreds of thousands of non EU expats living in France perfectly happily.
PS Ask some of your Spanish friends how they (and more importantly Spanish healthcare workers)feel about the influx of north Africans taking advantage of their free health care
The Spanish healthcare system is not free to North Africans unless they have residencia and are paying tax. It is free to UK pensioners under a reciprocal arrangement though.
Most countries had restrictions of various types on foreign non-residents buying property.
Ditto for setting up companies (I mean, making that easier for EU citizens is pretty fundamental to the Single Market concept)
When it comes to healthcare, I suppose if you try getting a hip replacement op in Canada to beat the waiting list in the NHS, and expecting the NHS to pay for it, the response will give you an idea of what it was like across Europe if you had tried that before the directive came into force.
So it will be slightly different then. Hardly the end of the world.
Might need to factor private health insurance into the cost of enjoying a life abroad. Just like I've done in the various Asian countries I've lived in. Or the tens of thousands of Brits with homes in Turkey. Or the hundreds of thousands of non EU expats living in France perfectly happily.
PS Ask some of your Spanish friends how they (and more importantly Spanish healthcare workers)feel about the influx of north Africans taking advantage of their free health care
The Spanish healthcare system is not free to North Africans unless they have residencia and are paying tax. It is free to UK pensioners under a reciprocal arrangement though.
I suggest you do a bit of research from hospitals from Toledo south and see what you find. I have two Spanish Doctor friends and stay with them often.
Most countries had restrictions of various types on foreign non-residents buying property.
Ditto for setting up companies (I mean, making that easier for EU citizens is pretty fundamental to the Single Market concept)
When it comes to healthcare, I suppose if you try getting a hip replacement op in Canada to beat the waiting list in the NHS, and expecting the NHS to pay for it, the response will give you an idea of what it was like across Europe if you had tried that before the directive came into force.
So it will be slightly different then. Hardly the end of the world.
Might need to factor private health insurance into the cost of enjoying a life abroad. Just like I've done in the various Asian countries I've lived in. Or the tens of thousands of Brits with homes in Turkey. Or the hundreds of thousands of non EU expats living in France perfectly happily.
PS Ask some of your Spanish friends how they (and more importantly Spanish healthcare workers)feel about the influx of north Africans taking advantage of their free health care
The Spanish healthcare system is not free to North Africans unless they have residencia and are paying tax. It is free to UK pensioners under a reciprocal arrangement though.
I suggest you do a bit of research from hospitals from Toledo south and see what you find. I have two Spanish Doctor friends and stay with them often.
Most countries had restrictions of various types on foreign non-residents buying property.
Ditto for setting up companies (I mean, making that easier for EU citizens is pretty fundamental to the Single Market concept)
When it comes to healthcare, I suppose if you try getting a hip replacement op in Canada to beat the waiting list in the NHS, and expecting the NHS to pay for it, the response will give you an idea of what it was like across Europe if you had tried that before the directive came into force.
So it will be slightly different then. Hardly the end of the world.
Might need to factor private health insurance into the cost of enjoying a life abroad. Just like I've done in the various Asian countries I've lived in. Or the tens of thousands of Brits with homes in Turkey. Or the hundreds of thousands of non EU expats living in France perfectly happily.
PS Ask some of your Spanish friends how they (and more importantly Spanish healthcare workers)feel about the influx of north Africans taking advantage of their free health care
The Spanish healthcare system is not free to North Africans unless they have residencia and are paying tax. It is free to UK pensioners under a reciprocal arrangement though.
I suggest you do a bit of research from hospitals from Toledo south and see what you find. I have two Spanish Doctor friends and stay with them often.
Most countries had restrictions of various types on foreign non-residents buying property.
Ditto for setting up companies (I mean, making that easier for EU citizens is pretty fundamental to the Single Market concept)
When it comes to healthcare, I suppose if you try getting a hip replacement op in Canada to beat the waiting list in the NHS, and expecting the NHS to pay for it, the response will give you an idea of what it was like across Europe if you had tried that before the directive came into force.
So it will be slightly different then. Hardly the end of the world.
Might need to factor private health insurance into the cost of enjoying a life abroad. Just like I've done in the various Asian countries I've lived in. Or the tens of thousands of Brits with homes in Turkey. Or the hundreds of thousands of non EU expats living in France perfectly happily.
PS Ask some of your Spanish friends how they (and more importantly Spanish healthcare workers)feel about the influx of north Africans taking advantage of their free health care
You say that. But the Lifer I refer to only revealed why he is in France in a thread entitled "near death experiences" or something like that. It seems that he had to go to France to get life saving treatment that he could not get quickly enough in the UK. If it had not been for this EU directive, according to his own story on here, it would quite literally have been the end of his world. Yet he is regularly on here, brexiting away, arguing for a decision that means others with his condition will not be able to take the step he took. Lovely.
The issue is nothing to do with private health insurance either. In order to benefit from the Czech health system, I pay Czech equivalent of NI. The EU benefit is that at the moment in the event of a serious medical issue I could elect to be treated in the UK and the Czech system would pay. Similarly if you had the misfortune to have a condition for which proton therapy might be a solution, you could elect to come to Prague's world leading clinic. For now.
Hardly the end of the world.
And you gain, what, exactly, by Brexit, to compensate for these small lost benefits?
Most countries had restrictions of various types on foreign non-residents buying property.
Ditto for setting up companies (I mean, making that easier for EU citizens is pretty fundamental to the Single Market concept)
When it comes to healthcare, I suppose if you try getting a hip replacement op in Canada to beat the waiting list in the NHS, and expecting the NHS to pay for it, the response will give you an idea of what it was like across Europe if you had tried that before the directive came into force.
So it will be slightly different then. Hardly the end of the world.
Might need to factor private health insurance into the cost of enjoying a life abroad. Just like I've done in the various Asian countries I've lived in. Or the tens of thousands of Brits with homes in Turkey. Or the hundreds of thousands of non EU expats living in France perfectly happily.
PS Ask some of your Spanish friends how they (and more importantly Spanish healthcare workers)feel about the influx of north Africans taking advantage of their free health care
The Spanish healthcare system is not free to North Africans unless they have residencia and are paying tax. It is free to UK pensioners under a reciprocal arrangement though.
I suggest you do a bit of research from hospitals from Toledo south and see what you find. I have two Spanish Doctor friends and stay with them often.
Well I lived there for seven years, had friends who worked in the healthcare system and regularly go back. The position when I lived there was as I described and it was tightened up in 2012 but loosened again according to the article provided by @ShootersHillGuru . El Pais describes it in more detail than the Telegraph article https://elpais.com/elpais/2014/04/28/inenglish/1398692445_765520.html?rel=rosEP . The law was changed because it made the system worse to have no provision at all and clogged up A&Es.
DO THE BREXIT - is that like a dance or something?
Sadly there is a breed of British expat that just do not see themselves as immigrants. I know a few of them out here in Canada. Some of the stuff they come out with about 'immigrants' beggers belief. Of course what those people really mean by immigrants are non-whites, it particular muslims, or anyone their ignorant brain thinks looks like a muslim.
Ummm, white people are ex-pats, don't you know.
Sadly I know people exactly like you've described, a bloke from Kent constantly bangs on about immigrants going over to England, screwing the country up, can't even speak the language.
He's been here almost as long as me, can't speak a word of Chinese
DO THE BREXIT - is that like a dance or something?
Sadly there is a breed of British expat that just do not see themselves as immigrants. I know a few of them out here in Canada. Some of the stuff they come out with about 'immigrants' beggers belief. Of course what those people really mean by immigrants are non-whites, it particular muslims, or anyone their ignorant brain thinks looks like a muslim.
Ummm, white people are ex-pats, don't you know.
Sadly I know people exactly like you've described, a bloke from Kent constantly bangs on about immigrants going over to England, screwing the country up, can't even speak the language.
He's been here almost as long as me, can't speak a word of Chinese
Brother used to live in work in Thailand and met many people falling into that description. He was fluent in Thai btw (made for some amusing encounters with taxi drivers)
DO THE BREXIT - is that like a dance or something?
Sadly there is a breed of British expat that just do not see themselves as immigrants. I know a few of them out here in Canada. Some of the stuff they come out with about 'immigrants' beggers belief. Of course what those people really mean by immigrants are non-whites, it particular muslims, or anyone their ignorant brain thinks looks like a muslim.
Ummm, white people are ex-pats, don't you know.
Sadly I know people exactly like you've described, a bloke from Kent constantly bangs on about immigrants going over to England, screwing the country up, can't even speak the language.
He's been here almost as long as me, can't speak a word of Chinese
That amazes me because (and correct me if I’m wrong), I can’t imagine people in that part of China would (nor should they), give him the courtesy of speaking English
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Ditto for setting up companies (I mean, making that easier for EU citizens is pretty fundamental to the Single Market concept)
When it comes to healthcare, I suppose if you try getting a hip replacement op in Canada to beat the waiting list in the NHS, and expecting the NHS to pay for it, the response will give you an idea of what it was like across Europe if you had tried that before the directive came into force.
Hardly the end of the world.
Might need to factor private health insurance into the cost of enjoying a life abroad.
Just like I've done in the various Asian countries I've lived in.
Or the tens of thousands of Brits with homes in Turkey.
Or the hundreds of thousands of non EU expats living in France perfectly happily.
PS Ask some of your Spanish friends how they (and more importantly Spanish healthcare workers)feel about the influx of north Africans taking advantage of their free health care
Speaking as someone who has a residence and a business in France - the French are only interested in what's good for France. Most EU states are probably the same but not (in my experience) as sellf centred as France.
When France saw the UK vote result, they could see it would mean higher financial contributions from the remaining members - i e France.
Hence the talk of Frexit. The finance issue coupled with the terror attacks they had experienced gave rise to a call for change - which has subsided somewhat at the moment.
But what if the Germans propose something that doesn't fit well with French interests? Cos you said above that the EU is basically the French and Germans running the thing together....
I note also that you have revealed your "residence" and business in France. Lets hope your French neighbours and colleagues are understanding of your views on Brexit, then, and you don't suffer the same treatment as too many Poles in the U.K. right now. Still since you don't seem to care much for the French, perhaps you will do the decent thing and sell up, and commit yourself 100% to the sunlit uplands of the U.K. under the leadership of the Cartoon Aristocrat.
There are probably occasions with the French and Germans disagree as you describe above. I suspect it usually ends with the Germans getting their way (because they pay the bills) and France writing in a clause that allows them to do as they like
You may be surprised at the views on Brexit in France. In my experience they are not surprised at the referendum result.
I have a residence in France. I live in U.K mostly.
Post Brexit - France will say to me "are you bringing anything to the party here?"
I will say , "yes, local employment and taxation revenue"
They may say "sling your hook" - but I very much doubt it.
Like most Brexit stuff - We will see.
Do you not stop to consider that you have this residence, and you have your business, in no small part because of Britain's EU membership?
Just as another prominent Brexiteer Lifer has received important health care in France only because the relevant EU directive has allowed him and other British citizens the facility to seek such care anywhere in the Union.
In both cases Brexit will deny future generations these important life-changing advantages you have both enjoyed.
Forgive me for putting it this bluntly , but why should people not see this as the most grotesque hypocrisy?
Yes I agree and yes my brother lives in France and has had reciprocal healthcare as you describe.
But here's the twist - my country has paid for both - about 350 mill a week maybe ?
Future generations will have to
A) make an application for residency/commerce permit
It just looks sad now, I mean whet even is Britain First Spain - it's just three random words.
Crazy name, crazy people
Sadly there is a breed of British expat that just do not see themselves as immigrants. I know a few of them out here in Canada. Some of the stuff they come out with about 'immigrants' beggers belief. Of course what those people really mean by immigrants are non-whites, it particular muslims, or anyone their ignorant brain thinks looks like a muslim.
Let's split the difference
I have two Spanish Doctor friends and stay with them often.
The issue is nothing to do with private health insurance either. In order to benefit from the Czech health system, I pay Czech equivalent of NI. The EU benefit is that at the moment in the event of a serious medical issue I could elect to be treated in the UK and the Czech system would pay. Similarly if you had the misfortune to have a condition for which proton therapy might be a solution, you could elect to come to Prague's world leading clinic. For now.
Hardly the end of the world.
And you gain, what, exactly, by Brexit, to compensate for these small lost benefits?
But if you look closer at them both the do not mention all care and this article from Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-health-immigrants/spain-to-reinstate-primary-healthcare-for-illegal-immigrants-idUSKBN0MR20H20150331 states that free healthcare will be provided only in GP surgeries and not in hospitals.
Sadly I know people exactly like you've described, a bloke from Kent constantly bangs on about immigrants going over to England, screwing the country up, can't even speak the language.
He's been here almost as long as me, can't speak a word of Chinese
Slightly off topic I know, but there was a report in the news this week that 1 in 25 people are homeless in some parts of the UK.
IMO this is our first priority as a nation.
My hope for future generations is that they are not using "beds in sheds' or slums like we had in the 1950's.
There was another report in the press this week that class sizes in some U.K. schools have reached 100.
This is why I feel we have to turn off the tap before we fix the hole in the bath.
Brexit may indeed be like cutting off a limb - but this is often done (in medicine) to save the whole body.