So it's not post vote as Osborne along with others suggested? Is it after the triggering of Article 50 or after we've actually left?
I still don't get this 'bottom of the EU' in relation to growth. It fluctuates year on year and I would expect the smaller EU economies to show significant growth now they benefit from their EU membership.
I really do see the disadvantages to leaving the EU, but I'm determined to try and be positive about it. I'm surprised so many on here seem to revel in our nations failings rather than celebrate the successes.
You mean we must make more optimistic forecasts about poor economic numbers. Where have I heard that before.
Otherwise we're traitors.
It's the ignoring of strong economic numbers to highlight perceived poor areas that annoys me. It's about balance.
Not everything is rosy in the garden, as I am well aware of, particularly as they are repeatedly shouted from the rooftops by the same half dozen people on this thread. None of whom ever seem to mention the positives since the vote.
It does seem as if you are desperate for Brexit to fail just so you can say "I told you so".
Traitors? Not sure where you get that from. But feel free to twist any posts from any poster who challenges the negativity.
What are they, then? Really, I am just asking what you are referring to, because when it comes to the hard economic data I cannot think of one which indicates an improving situation since the referendum. All the key parameters we might use seem to be pointing downwards whereas in EU neighbours they are pointing upwards; which is in recent years unusual, the UK normally trends in step with its biggest trading partner.
The Q3 GDP figures should be out next week. As @seriously_red , whom God preserve, has pointed out, you better brace yourselves...
Unemployment figures. That and the highest levels of employment ever recorded. Surely that has to be good news, despite these being mocked as 'zero hours' or part time.
But even if we do not question the nature of some of those jobs, what have the figures achieved got to do with the Brexit referendum? Are you suggesting that a Remain win would have resulted in higher unemployment???
No. I'm suggesting the employment figures are a positive economic parameter post Brexit vote
Yes. Charlton are doing better post the Brexit vote. But I can't see how in either case the Brexit vote caused these two things. Not least as the trend in higher employment started before the Brexit vote and is currently a pan European phenomenon.
Is this perhaps one of your terribly sophisticated wind ups, and I am about to be whooshed?
The suggestion that tangible goodies await down the road for everybody post brexit is to be treated with caution. As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok. However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed. There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports. Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always. To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
I honestly believe that Flanders and Swann are the aspiration for many who voted brexit.
Unless you do not believe in democracy, the more democratic and accountable our government is and the less our affairs are controlled by the EU then the more chance there is we can change things for the better here.
"The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999."
100% of the EU's laws were implemented as a result of democratically elected representatives. 98% of those democratic laws the UK voted in favour of. You'd struggle to find a more democratic system anywhere else in the world. Even the UK's own laws have to go through the non-elected House of Lords.
...and that's before we even start all over again on the planned Henry VIII powers Stonemuse has defended as an improvement on the current situation previously.
I know I’m getting older and my memory plays tricks ... and I’ve also had a nice bottle of red wine tonight ... but can you point me towards my post where I specifically supported the ‘Henry VIII’ approach?
The suggestion that tangible goodies await down the road for everybody post brexit is to be treated with caution. As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok. However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed. There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports. Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always. To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
I honestly believe that Flanders and Swann are the aspiration for many who voted brexit.
Unless you do not believe in democracy, the more democratic and accountable our government is and the less our affairs are controlled by the EU then the more chance there is we can change things for the better here.
"The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999."
100% of the EU's laws were implemented as a result of democratically elected representatives. 98% of those democratic laws the UK voted in favour of. You'd struggle to find a more democratic system anywhere else in the world. Even the UK's own laws have to go through the non-elected House of Lords.
...and that's before we even start all over again on the planned Henry VIII powers Stonemuse has defended as an improvement on the current situation previously.
I know I’m getting older and my memory plays tricks ... and I’ve also had a nice bottle of red wine tonight ... but can you point me towards my post where I specifically supported the ‘Henry VIII’ approach?
Any of those where you've previously argued it's more democratic because we can vote out Gove, Hunt, Truss, Mogg, Boris or whoever else happens to be a minister that month if we don't like what they've decided. Are you now saying you do NOT think that aspect of the Repeal Bill is an example of improved sovereignty and democracy for the UK?
I can't see a solution to this & hence I think we will leave with no deal.
For Brexit to have worked then we have to have a border between us & the other EU countries. Eire is an EU country and N.Ireland is part of the UK. Therefore to leave successfully there has to be a border between the 2 countries. and one that can monitor people, goods & services crossing that border. You can't simply say "in the interest of peace, goodwill, or the Good Friday agreement" etc etc we wont have a hard border, because then anyone or anything can enter Eire and then move into the UK without any checks. You can't just treat the 2 countries as one single one for convenience - I'm sure Sein Fein or the DUP will have something to say about that.
This isn't a political problem that can be solved by negotiation, it is a hard fact problem.
"Britain's five biggest business lobby groups are calling for an urgent Brexit transition deal, or they warn the UK risks losing jobs and investment...Sky News and the Guardian reported they had seen the draft letter, which says an agreement on a transition "is needed as soon as possible, as companies are preparing to make serious decisions at the start of 2018, which will have consequences for jobs and investment in the UK"..."
Europe need us more than we need Europe, free the bloody trade shackles and let us trade on our terms with the America's, Australasia, Far East, Russia etc........ Europe will come cap in hand they need their products being imported into the UK and vice versa but once more on our terms, not theirs.
Europe need us more than we need Europe, free the bloody trade shackles and let's U.S. trade on our terms with the America's, Australasia, Far East, Russia etc........ Europe will come cap in hand they need their products being imported into the UK and vice versa but once more on our terms, not theirs.
I'm already able to buy American software, beer and meat from Down Under, technology and textiles from the Far East, fruit and vegetables from Africa and vodka from Russia, all at very reasonable prices. Not sure there would be any benefit to me of leaving the EU in this regard but I'm sure one of the self-appointed experts on here will enlighten me.
Oops bit of a typo (predictive text) meant to say/read "and let us trade"
Hi @Daarrzzetbum I've edited your text. You can do it yourself in future though by clicking on the cog wheel (top right of post) and then selecting edit.
The suggestion that tangible goodies await down the road for everybody post brexit is to be treated with caution. As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok. However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed. There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports. Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always. To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
I honestly believe that Flanders and Swann are the aspiration for many who voted brexit.
Unless you do not believe in democracy, the more democratic and accountable our government is and the less our affairs are controlled by the EU then the more chance there is we can change things for the better here.
"The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999."
100% of the EU's laws were implemented as a result of democratically elected representatives. 98% of those democratic laws the UK voted in favour of. You'd struggle to find a more democratic system anywhere else in the world. Even the UK's own laws have to go through the non-elected House of Lords.
...and that's before we even start all over again on the planned Henry VIII powers Stonemuse has defended as an improvement on the current situation previously.
I know I’m getting older and my memory plays tricks ... and I’ve also had a nice bottle of red wine tonight ... but can you point me towards my post where I specifically supported the ‘Henry VIII’ approach?
Any of those where you've previously argued it's more democratic because we can vote out Gove, Hunt, Truss, Mogg, Boris or whoever else happens to be a minister that month if we don't like what they've decided. Are you now saying you do NOT think that aspect of the Repeal Bill is an example of improved sovereignty and democracy for the UK?
Voting out a minister is an aspect of the Repeal Bill?
The suggestion that tangible goodies await down the road for everybody post brexit is to be treated with caution. As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok. However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed. There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports. Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always. To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
I honestly believe that Flanders and Swann are the aspiration for many who voted brexit.
Unless you do not believe in democracy, the more democratic and accountable our government is and the less our affairs are controlled by the EU then the more chance there is we can change things for the better here.
"The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999."
100% of the EU's laws were implemented as a result of democratically elected representatives. 98% of those democratic laws the UK voted in favour of. You'd struggle to find a more democratic system anywhere else in the world. Even the UK's own laws have to go through the non-elected House of Lords.
...and that's before we even start all over again on the planned Henry VIII powers Stonemuse has defended as an improvement on the current situation previously.
I know I’m getting older and my memory plays tricks ... and I’ve also had a nice bottle of red wine tonight ... but can you point me towards my post where I specifically supported the ‘Henry VIII’ approach?
Any of those where you've previously argued it's more democratic because we can vote out Gove, Hunt, Truss, Mogg, Boris or whoever else happens to be a minister that month if we don't like what they've decided. Are you now saying you do NOT think that aspect of the Repeal Bill is an example of improved sovereignty and democracy for the UK?
Obviously I support the ultimate aims of the Repeal Bill.
Not convinced I have ever stated that I support the ‘Henry VIII’ approach. Individual ministers should not have that power ... that makes the situation no better.
Europe need us more than we need Europe, free the bloody trade shackles and let us trade on our terms with the America's, Australasia, Far East, Russia etc........ Europe will come cap in hand they need their products being imported into the UK and vice versa but once more on our terms, not theirs.
It is posted above that EU trade with the UK is 15% of their operation, but UK trade with the EU is 43%. If it all disintegrated the UK would have a bigger problem to deal with than the EU. The EU do not need the UK more than the UK needs the EU.
Statistical Bollocks Seth, our growth will be the with rest of the world on our terms not the EU's, Europe is shrinking as a market with the rest of the world on the increase/growth, once we have gone others will follow and the so called Presidential state of Europe will be no more.
The suggestion that tangible goodies await down the road for everybody post brexit is to be treated with caution. As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok. However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed. There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports. Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always. To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
I honestly believe that Flanders and Swann are the aspiration for many who voted brexit.
Unless you do not believe in democracy, the more democratic and accountable our government is and the less our affairs are controlled by the EU then the more chance there is we can change things for the better here.
"The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999."
100% of the EU's laws were implemented as a result of democratically elected representatives. 98% of those democratic laws the UK voted in favour of. You'd struggle to find a more democratic system anywhere else in the world. Even the UK's own laws have to go through the non-elected House of Lords.
...and that's before we even start all over again on the planned Henry VIII powers Stonemuse has defended as an improvement on the current situation previously.
I know I’m getting older and my memory plays tricks ... and I’ve also had a nice bottle of red wine tonight ... but can you point me towards my post where I specifically supported the ‘Henry VIII’ approach?
Any of those where you've previously argued it's more democratic because we can vote out Gove, Hunt, Truss, Mogg, Boris or whoever else happens to be a minister that month if we don't like what they've decided. Are you now saying you do NOT think that aspect of the Repeal Bill is an example of improved sovereignty and democracy for the UK?
Obviously I support the ultimate aims of the Repeal Bill.
Not convinced I have ever stated that I support the ‘Henry VIII’ approach. Individual ministers should not have that power ... that makes the situation no better.
Again, please point out where I stated this.
More than one Leaver on here has previously justified the Henry VIII provisions in the Repeal Bill; on the dubious basis that the ministers using those executive powers within that bill (to unilaterally change UK law) are accountable at elections.
I'm not going to go back and start searching through the old threads tbh but if this was not you and I've got my posters mixed up then I hold my hands up and sincerely apologise.
Europe need us more than we need Europe, free the bloody trade shackles and let us trade on our terms with the America's, Australasia, Far East, Russia etc........ Europe will come cap in hand they need their products being imported into the UK and vice versa but once more on our terms, not theirs.
Umm, how does that work? The whole thing about trade tariffs is that the cannot be decided in isolation. Because the trading partner will go for reciprocity/revenge.
Tariffs are also incredibly complex. I've drilled down (feel free to drill back up and find something else) to a non-EU car import tariff. https://trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/trade-tariff/commodities/8703241000 The transaction code alone gives a clue to just how convoluted it all is.
Anyway, in the overall scheme of things importing an American car will cost you a 10% tariff (plus VAT of course). But if it's a pick-up the tariff is 22%. Then take my car as an example. It's a Jeep assembled in the USA by a company called Fiat Chrysler Automobiles. This company is controlled by Italians but headquartered in London. (But it operates from two main subsidiaries in Italy and the USA.) I don't know if my car had a 10% tariff placed on it though. Okay, so it's a Jeep and should have. BUT its chassis is an Alfa Romeo Giulietta, its engine is a Fiat MultiJet diesel and its gearbox is a 9-speed German ZF unit. (The same one as used by the Range Rover Evoque and Disco.) This goes to explain the complexity of the global market. Anyone that thinks we can just pootle along by ourselves, setting our own tariffs (or not) on stuff is living in a fool's paradise.
ETA Sorry I meant to add, the smaller Jeep, the Renegade, is actually not really American at all but made in Italy on a Fiat 500 chassis. I assume that unless something is done about trade negotiations this vehicle along with countless others will immediately become 10% more expensive (or thereabouts) for UK buyers.
Statistical Bollocks Seth, our growth will be the with rest of the world on our terms not the EU's, Europe is shrinking as a market with the rest of the world on the increase/growth, once we have gone others will follow and the so called Presidential state of Europe will be no more.
The statistics are from the Polish foreign minister in Prague's film above. Why are they nonsense? It may be that trade will grow with other countries, but what does the UK produce that a country such as Bangladesh wants to pay for?
Totally understand the complexities of trade tariffs and reciprocity (cafcfan, I like it as you say revenge) but we at least will have the freedom to stand alone, make our own decisions, negotiate, and not let others dictate to us, fundamentally that is why we democratically voted to leave.
Seth, interestingly Bangladesh is a rapidly growing economy 6% year on year, and with that growth there are opportunities for export products & services, growth fuels cash & investments.
Totally understand the complexities of trade tariffs and reciprocity (cafcfan, I like it as you say revenge) but we at least will have the freedom to stand alone, make our own decisions, negotiate, and not let others dictate to us, fundamentally that is why we democratically voted to leave.
Seth, interestingly Bangladesh is a rapidly growing economy 6% year on year, and with that growth there are opportunities for export products & services, growth fuels cash & investments.
Can't be bothered to reply to this. The arguments and debate deployed by Brexiteers on here and elsewhere just gets weaker, more nonsensical, more fact free and desperate with each passing week.
Fact No 1 you did respond mate (Red in SE8), fact No 2 is we are out.
Are we out? I was under the impression we wouldn't be "out" until March 2019, and then Mrs May added a 2 year transition period on top of that, so we won't be out until at least march 2021. Assuming of course the transition period isn't extended, that parliament actually passes any deal we get, and that the percentage of the population who actually want to leave doesn't drop below a level where another referendum becomes inevitable.
Totally understand the complexities of trade tariffs and reciprocity (cafcfan, I like it as you say revenge) but we at least will have the freedom to stand alone, make our own decisions, negotiate, and not let others dictate to us, fundamentally that is why we democratically voted to leave.
Seth, interestingly Bangladesh is a rapidly growing economy 6% year on year, and with that growth there are opportunities for export products & services, growth fuels cash & investments.
Can't be bothered to reply to this. The arguments and debate deployed by Brexiteers on here and elsewhere just gets weaker, more nonsensical, more fact free and desperate with each passing week.
Statistical Bollocks Seth, our growth will be the with rest of the world on our terms not the EU's, Europe is shrinking as a market with the rest of the world on the increase/growth, once we have gone others will follow and the so called Presidential state of Europe will be no more.
The current trading terms that the UK has, in the context of EU-wide trade deals, according to those with more knowledge of trade negotiations than me, are very good, because the EU negotiates from a position of relatively greater economic strength.
UK negotiated trade deals, post-Brexit, will either take time to be agreed or will be agreed from a position of weakness (i.e., if the UK is in great need to agree deals quickly, trading partners will maximise their own benefits).
On the whole, as now, the UK will do a lot of trade under WTO schedules - but what these schedules will be is open to some debate, they are currently EU schedules and new ones for the EU27 and UK have to be agreed by the other WTO members (and they have made clear that they expect to increase their ability to access both markets , rather than allow a simple division of the existing regime).
The UK will not be trading on its own terms, whether using WTO schedules or having agreed bilateral trade agreements, there will have to be compromise and a surrender (to an extent) independent choice - a little like being in the EU, but with the UK being in a less strong negotiating position than it is as a member state.
You joke but most Brexit voters are still under the illusion that EU migrants are going to be deported en masse in May 2019.
If it helps though anyone who think all non-ethnically British people should not be here could always refuse to use a hospital, surgery, school, shop or service that employs non-English staff. Because if they did use such services they might be at risk of being hypocrites.
Happy to put the record straight (again!). I can't speak for other Brexit voters, but if there are any deportations (other than on the basis of illegal entry or extradition), then I will be the first at the border point with a banner and a megaphone to protest.
I have no interest in the ethnic origin of our existing population - but I don't want the future population of this island to be 100 million, and we cannot control the number when we have free movement from the EU (500 million population). Not forgetting that the 5 million (?) Brits who live abroad have the right to return should they wish.
The current UK population projection for 2040 is 75 million. There is already a chronic housing shortage, we are no strangers to water rationing, and if we resort to building on agricultural land we will be at the mercy of other nations - just like we are now with energy.
Remoaners often want to make Brexit about racism, but for me it is about numbers.
The suggestion that tangible goodies await down the road for everybody post brexit is to be treated with caution. As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok. However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed. There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports. Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always. To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
I honestly believe that Flanders and Swann are the aspiration for many who voted brexit.
Unless you do not believe in democracy, the more democratic and accountable our government is and the less our affairs are controlled by the EU then the more chance there is we can change things for the better here.
"The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999."
100% of the EU's laws were implemented as a result of democratically elected representatives. 98% of those democratic laws the UK voted in favour of. You'd struggle to find a more democratic system anywhere else in the world. Even the UK's own laws have to go through the non-elected House of Lords.
...and that's before we even start all over again on the planned Henry VIII powers Stonemuse has defended as an improvement on the current situation previously.
I know I’m getting older and my memory plays tricks ... and I’ve also had a nice bottle of red wine tonight ... but can you point me towards my post where I specifically supported the ‘Henry VIII’ approach?
Any of those where you've previously argued it's more democratic because we can vote out Gove, Hunt, Truss, Mogg, Boris or whoever else happens to be a minister that month if we don't like what they've decided. Are you now saying you do NOT think that aspect of the Repeal Bill is an example of improved sovereignty and democracy for the UK?
Obviously I support the ultimate aims of the Repeal Bill.
Not convinced I have ever stated that I support the ‘Henry VIII’ approach. Individual ministers should not have that power ... that makes the situation no better.
Again, please point out where I stated this.
More than one Leaver on here has previously justified the Henry VIII provisions in the Repeal Bill; on the dubious basis that the ministers using those executive powers within that bill (to unilaterally change UK law) are accountable at elections.
I'm not going to go back and start searching through the old threads tbh but if this was not you and I've got my posters mixed up then I hold my hands up and sincerely apologise.
You joke but most Brexit voters are still under the illusion that EU migrants are going to be deported en masse in May 2019.
If it helps though anyone who think all non-ethnically British people should not be here could always refuse to use a hospital, surgery, school, shop or service that employs non-English staff. Because if they did use such services they might be at risk of being hypocrites.
Happy to put the record straight (again!). I can't speak for other Brexit voters, but if there are any deportations (other than on the basis of illegal entry or extradition), then I will be the first at the border point with a banner and a megaphone to protest.
I have no interest in the ethnic origin of our existing population - but I don't want the future population of this island to be 100 million, and we cannot control the number when we have free movement from the EU (500 million population). Not forgetting that the 5 million (?) Brits who live abroad have the right to return should they wish.
The current UK population projection for 2040 is 75 million. There is already a chronic housing shortage, we are no strangers to water rationing, and if we resort to building on agricultural land we will be at the mercy of other nations - just like we are now with energy.
Remoaners often want to make Brexit about racism, but for me it is about numbers.
Firstly it would help if you didn't use the cretinous phrase 'Remoaner'. It doesn't make you sound big or clever.
Secondly who said anything about racism? The other posters who have whinged about Eastern Europeans stealing all the jobs and hospitals and schools are being used by non-British have clearly made their sentiments clear: those who were born here to ethnically British people deserve superior treatment and access to services to those who were not.
I will admit I am concerned about population levels and our diminishing finite resources but capping EU immigration is not a complete solution. We have just as many non-EU migrants, not to mention an ageing population and a birth rate meaning our population will continue to grow regardless of our EU membership. You also have to bear in mind that many EU immigrants actually leave at some point. Because there is no accurate reporting of this as we do not monitor those leaving in the same way we monitor those arriving, the numbers of permanent EU immigrants, those that would impact future population counts significantly, are skewed.
Out of the top 10 countries from which immigrants come from outside of the British Isles, only 3 are in the EU.
There are sensible and sustainable solutions to our population growth, including clamping down on self-policing landlords who allow 20 people to sleep in a 3 bed flat. We also need a sustainable housing future, including stopping stacking box homes in already overdeveloped areas, further causing strains on the local environment and community.
There seems to be no evidence whatsoever that leaving the EU is necessary to begin to tackle this issue, nor does there seem to be any appetite from any major party to put significant controls on immigration from the EU post Brexit to have any meaningful effect.
Furthermore, let us not forget the Official Leave campaign specifically campaigned on the promise we would remain in the EEA, meaning visa-free right to travel and work across the EEA for all applicable citizens.
Totally understand the complexities of trade tariffs and reciprocity (cafcfan, I like it as you say revenge) but we at least will have the freedom to stand alone, make our own decisions, negotiate, and not let others dictate to us, fundamentally that is why we democratically voted to leave.
Seth, interestingly Bangladesh is a rapidly growing economy 6% year on year, and with that growth there are opportunities for export products & services, growth fuels cash & investments.
Have you got any particular products and services in mind?
You joke but most Brexit voters are still under the illusion that EU migrants are going to be deported en masse in May 2019.
If it helps though anyone who think all non-ethnically British people should not be here could always refuse to use a hospital, surgery, school, shop or service that employs non-English staff. Because if they did use such services they might be at risk of being hypocrites.
Happy to put the record straight (again!). I can't speak for other Brexit voters, but if there are any deportations (other than on the basis of illegal entry or extradition), then I will be the first at the border point with a banner and a megaphone to protest.
I have no interest in the ethnic origin of our existing population - but I don't want the future population of this island to be 100 million, and we cannot control the number when we have free movement from the EU (500 million population). Not forgetting that the 5 million (?) Brits who live abroad have the right to return should they wish.
The current UK population projection for 2040 is 75 million. There is already a chronic housing shortage, we are no strangers to water rationing, and if we resort to building on agricultural land we will be at the mercy of other nations - just like we are now with energy.
Remoaners often want to make Brexit about racism, but for me it is about numbers.
don't disagree about the numbers thing, but you have to ask why the government allowed 150k pa (net) from non EU countries last year, and did nothing to control migration from new EU states, as they had the right to do (and Cameron negotiated a brake as well prior to he referendum). The only thing likely to slow down immigration after leaving is turninthe country into such a bob hole nobody wants to come here - like in the 60s and 70s prior to joining the EU!
Totally understand the complexities of trade tariffs and reciprocity (cafcfan, I like it as you say revenge) but we at least will have the freedom to stand alone, make our own decisions, negotiate, and not let others dictate to us, fundamentally that is why we democratically voted to leave.
Seth, interestingly Bangladesh is a rapidly growing economy 6% year on year, and with that growth there are opportunities for export products & services, growth fuels cash & investments.
Have you got any particular products and services in mind?
Comments
Is this perhaps one of your terribly sophisticated wind ups, and I am about to be whooshed?
I can't see a solution to this & hence I think we will leave with no deal.
For Brexit to have worked then we have to have a border between us & the other EU countries. Eire is an EU country and N.Ireland is part of the UK. Therefore to leave successfully there has to be a border between the 2 countries. and one that can monitor people, goods & services crossing that border. You can't simply say "in the interest of peace, goodwill, or the Good Friday agreement" etc etc we wont have a hard border, because then anyone or anything can enter Eire and then move into the UK without any checks. You can't just treat the 2 countries as one single one for convenience - I'm sure Sein Fein or the DUP will have something to say about that.
This isn't a political problem that can be solved by negotiation, it is a hard fact problem.
a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41716284">bbc.co.uk/news/business-41716284
Not convinced I have ever stated that I support the ‘Henry VIII’ approach. Individual ministers should not have that power ... that makes the situation no better.
Again, please point out where I stated this.
If it all disintegrated the UK would have a bigger problem to deal with than the EU.
The EU do not need the UK more than the UK needs the EU.
I'm not going to go back and start searching through the old threads tbh but if this was not you and I've got my posters mixed up then I hold my hands up and sincerely apologise.
Tariffs are also incredibly complex. I've drilled down (feel free to drill back up and find something else) to a non-EU car import tariff. https://trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/trade-tariff/commodities/8703241000 The transaction code alone gives a clue to just how convoluted it all is.
Anyway, in the overall scheme of things importing an American car will cost you a 10% tariff (plus VAT of course). But if it's a pick-up the tariff is 22%. Then take my car as an example. It's a Jeep assembled in the USA by a company called Fiat Chrysler Automobiles. This company is controlled by Italians but headquartered in London. (But it operates from two main subsidiaries in Italy and the USA.)
I don't know if my car had a 10% tariff placed on it though. Okay, so it's a Jeep and should have. BUT its chassis is an Alfa Romeo Giulietta, its engine is a Fiat MultiJet diesel and its gearbox is a 9-speed German ZF unit. (The same one as used by the Range Rover Evoque and Disco.)
This goes to explain the complexity of the global market. Anyone that thinks we can just pootle along by ourselves, setting our own tariffs (or not) on stuff is living in a fool's paradise.
ETA Sorry I meant to add, the smaller Jeep, the Renegade, is actually not really American at all but made in Italy on a Fiat 500 chassis. I assume that unless something is done about trade negotiations this vehicle along with countless others will immediately become 10% more expensive (or thereabouts) for UK buyers.
Why are they nonsense?
It may be that trade will grow with other countries, but what does the UK produce that a country such as Bangladesh wants to pay for?
Seth, interestingly Bangladesh is a rapidly growing economy 6% year on year, and with that growth there are opportunities for export products & services, growth fuels cash & investments.
UK negotiated trade deals, post-Brexit, will either take time to be agreed or will be agreed from a position of weakness (i.e., if the UK is in great need to agree deals quickly, trading partners will maximise their own benefits).
On the whole, as now, the UK will do a lot of trade under WTO schedules - but what these schedules will be is open to some debate, they are currently EU schedules and new ones for the EU27 and UK have to be agreed by the other WTO members (and they have made clear that they expect to increase their ability to access both markets , rather than allow a simple division of the existing regime).
The UK will not be trading on its own terms, whether using WTO schedules or having agreed bilateral trade agreements, there will have to be compromise and a surrender (to an extent) independent choice - a little like being in the EU, but with the UK being in a less strong negotiating position than it is as a member state.
I can't speak for other Brexit voters, but if there are any deportations (other than on the basis of illegal entry or extradition), then I will be the first at the border point with a banner and a megaphone to protest.
I have no interest in the ethnic origin of our existing population - but I don't want the future population of this island to be 100 million, and we cannot control the number when we have free movement from the EU (500 million population). Not forgetting that the 5 million (?) Brits who live abroad have the right to return should they wish.
The current UK population projection for 2040 is 75 million.
There is already a chronic housing shortage, we are no strangers to water rationing, and if we resort to building on agricultural land we will be at the mercy of other nations - just like we are now with energy.
Remoaners often want to make Brexit about racism, but for me it is about numbers.
Secondly who said anything about racism? The other posters who have whinged about Eastern Europeans stealing all the jobs and hospitals and schools are being used by non-British have clearly made their sentiments clear: those who were born here to ethnically British people deserve superior treatment and access to services to those who were not.
I will admit I am concerned about population levels and our diminishing finite resources but capping EU immigration is not a complete solution. We have just as many non-EU migrants, not to mention an ageing population and a birth rate meaning our population will continue to grow regardless of our EU membership. You also have to bear in mind that many EU immigrants actually leave at some point. Because there is no accurate reporting of this as we do not monitor those leaving in the same way we monitor those arriving, the numbers of permanent EU immigrants, those that would impact future population counts significantly, are skewed.
Out of the top 10 countries from which immigrants come from outside of the British Isles, only 3 are in the EU.
There are sensible and sustainable solutions to our population growth, including clamping down on self-policing landlords who allow 20 people to sleep in a 3 bed flat. We also need a sustainable housing future, including stopping stacking box homes in already overdeveloped areas, further causing strains on the local environment and community.
There seems to be no evidence whatsoever that leaving the EU is necessary to begin to tackle this issue, nor does there seem to be any appetite from any major party to put significant controls on immigration from the EU post Brexit to have any meaningful effect.
Furthermore, let us not forget the Official Leave campaign specifically campaigned on the promise we would remain in the EEA, meaning visa-free right to travel and work across the EEA for all applicable citizens.