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The influence of the EU on Britain.
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Well, can we be so assured? Potential war isn't the strongest Remain argument, but the more billionaire mavericks (Putin wannabes) in charge of European nations, and the less central stability...well, can we be so assured? If I were a Slovak right now I'd be somewhat concerned1
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I'm trying to show that there were untruths and exaggerations on the remain side, which the challenge was. indeed, Camerons speech helped me decide which way to vote as I felt it was the such a strong and passionate reason for staying in Europe.
Seth's point about justifying Brexit is valid however.0 -
I never said no one lied in favour of Remain. I said the overwhelming amount of false statements came from official Leave campaigners.
I do not classify 'worst case projections' such as the projected number of workers who will lose their jobs in the years following the actual Brexit in the same category as barefaced lies such as £350mn a week, Turkey imminently becoming an EU member, or that the UK is constantly outvoted at the EU.5 -
Although they were both part of a government that recommended 'remain' and broke electoral rules to send out extra 'remain' propaganda leaflets.Fiiish said:
1. Cameron nor Osborne were not part of any official Remain campaign.Valiantphil said:
2. Could you please find the exact quote that states Cameron uses the words World War 3 or Osborne said immediate economic meltdown?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/04/08/not-even-david-camerons-93-million-on-a-leaflet-will-sell-an-ide/
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Dan Hannan... No thanks. Did the leaflet actually break the rules?LenGlover said:
Although they were both part of a government that recommended 'remain' and broke electoral rules to send out extra 'remain' propaganda leaflets.Fiiish said:
1. Cameron nor Osborne were not part of any official Remain campaign.Valiantphil said:
2. Could you please find the exact quote that states Cameron uses the words World War 3 or Osborne said immediate economic meltdown?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/04/08/not-even-david-camerons-93-million-on-a-leaflet-will-sell-an-ide/0 -
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"Fiiish said:"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
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And maybe when people on here whinge about the Polish they should remember those who bravely defended Britain from the Luftwaffe and without whose considerable sacrifices our struggle would have been that much harder or our losses far greater.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"Fiiish said:"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
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Whinge about Polish? What on earth are you talking about?Fiiish said:
And maybe when people on here whinge about the Polish they should remember those who bravely defended Britain from the Luftwaffe and without whose considerable sacrifices our struggle would have been that much harder or our losses far greater.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"Fiiish said:"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
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Yes him lolCordoban Addick said:
Willie Wordsworth!Chippycafc said:
Careful with typos, you will have weird willie wordsworth on your back.Daarrzettbum said:Oops bit of a typo (predictive text) meant to say/read "and let us trade"
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Well apart from the dozen or so people on this website who view Poles as job-stealing criminals every time a Brexiteer speaks on LBC or Question Time the Poles get mentioned in a derogatory way.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Whinge about Polish? What on earth are you talking about?Fiiish said:
And maybe when people on here whinge about the Polish they should remember those who bravely defended Britain from the Luftwaffe and without whose considerable sacrifices our struggle would have been that much harder or our losses far greater.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"Fiiish said:"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
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Great james o brien show today..... Yes, he wasnt on and at last he finally got moggy on.... In his place... Sadly i missed it as i never listen to the former.1
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Personally, nothing against the Polish far from it, instrumental as you rightly stated "Fiiish" in defeating far right ideology and latterly vital to our economic stability and growth, puzzingly for me how the hell did a light hearted blog on EU membership end up as xenophobic accusations and verbal bollocks............ oh silly me it's Charlton Life
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name and shame!Fiiish said:
Well apart from the dozen or so people on this website who view Poles as job-stealing criminals every time a Brexiteer speaks on LBC or Question Time the Poles get mentioned in a derogatory way.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Whinge about Polish? What on earth are you talking about?Fiiish said:
And maybe when people on here whinge about the Polish they should remember those who bravely defended Britain from the Luftwaffe and without whose considerable sacrifices our struggle would have been that much harder or our losses far greater.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"Fiiish said:"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
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So Cameron saying he would trigger Article 50 straight away turned out to be a pretty big whopper on its own.randy andy said:
On this thread alone I've said this 3 times, but here comes number 4. Cameron said when the referendum was called that he would trigger article 50 within days of the vote. Osbourne's predictions were based on that, and we will never know what might have happened. As we all know Cameron didn't trigger article 50, he quit instead, so any predictions made on the basis of what Cameron said he'd do are completely moot. Article 50 wasn't triggered the day after the vote.cafcpolo said:
So the lies Osborne told about an immediate recession and drops in house prices don’t count?Fiiish said:
Does that mean everything Farage said can be struck off the record too?
There is no equivelence between saying "the housing market could collapse if we vote out and trigger article 50 24 hours later", which could have happened, it was probably unlikely, but clearly not impossible, and saying "we'll spend the £350 million we'll save all on the NHS", which is a statement that has nothing that could ever be true in it. There was not £350 million to spend and it would have never all been spent on the NHS.
If at this stage you're trying to defend leave campaign lies by saying that Osbourne's warning over what might happen under a set of circumstances that never happened, then I don't know what to say to you, you're refusing to debate logically or rationally.0 -
Leave It out ffs, the votes been cast and I think most normal pro Brexut voters are happy for people to come from anywhere in the world to work, in controlled numbers.Fiiish said:
Well apart from the dozen or so people on this website who view Poles as job-stealing criminals every time a Brexiteer speaks on LBC or Question Time the Poles get mentioned in a derogatory way.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Whinge about Polish? What on earth are you talking about?Fiiish said:
And maybe when people on here whinge about the Polish they should remember those who bravely defended Britain from the Luftwaffe and without whose considerable sacrifices our struggle would have been that much harder or our losses far greater.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"Fiiish said:"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
But thats last years argument imo, for the moment we're talking about a deal between the bureaucratic EU and the UK. If / when Poland want out (doubtful I know), they too can bring up the sacrifices they made towards a safer contenental Europe when brokering a deal.1 -
Yep, I don't think anybody has ever claimed it wasn't. It was stupid to have said it as it would have caused massive problems. Even now the lack of preparation by ministers before triggering it is astounding and scary in equal measures, doing it last year would have caused chaos. I honestly think he didn't even consider the possibility he'd lose.Southbank said:So Cameron saying he would trigger Article 50 straight away turned out to be a pretty big whopper on its own.
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Currently drinking a very, very nice Polish beer on a train from Poznan to Warsaw, there's absolutely nothing to whinge about the Poles from me!i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Whinge about Polish? What on earth are you talking about?Fiiish said:
And maybe when people on here whinge about the Polish they should remember those who bravely defended Britain from the Luftwaffe and without whose considerable sacrifices our struggle would have been that much harder or our losses far greater.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"Fiiish said:"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
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He can't because they don't exist.cafcdave123 said:
name and shame!Fiiish said:
Well apart from the dozen or so people on this website who view Poles as job-stealing criminals every time a Brexiteer speaks on LBC or Question Time the Poles get mentioned in a derogatory way.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Whinge about Polish? What on earth are you talking about?Fiiish said:
And maybe when people on here whinge about the Polish they should remember those who bravely defended Britain from the Luftwaffe and without whose considerable sacrifices our struggle would have been that much harder or our losses far greater.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"Fiiish said:"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
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The link between Eastern Europeans and either jobs/wages or crime rates was an almost daily fixture from whinging Brexiters on here prior to the referendum. Only last week was one poster carrying on this tired trope. But I'll take the collective silence of those who have repeated these claims in one way or another as either amnesia or recognition that their views were wrong.blackpool72 said:
He can't because they don't exist.cafcdave123 said:
name and shame!Fiiish said:
Well apart from the dozen or so people on this website who view Poles as job-stealing criminals every time a Brexiteer speaks on LBC or Question Time the Poles get mentioned in a derogatory way.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Whinge about Polish? What on earth are you talking about?Fiiish said:
And maybe when people on here whinge about the Polish they should remember those who bravely defended Britain from the Luftwaffe and without whose considerable sacrifices our struggle would have been that much harder or our losses far greater.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"Fiiish said:"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
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A point of order; earlier you complained about the usage of derogatory language and stated that it would help if prople didn't use the “cretinous phrase” 'Remoaner'.Fiiish said:
The link between Eastern Europeans and either jobs/wages or crime rates was an almost daily fixture from whinging Brexiters on here prior to the referendum. Only last week was one poster carrying on this tired trope. But I'll take the collective silence of those who have repeated these claims in one way or another as either amnesia or recognition that their views were wrong.blackpool72 said:
He can't because they don't exist.cafcdave123 said:
name and shame!Fiiish said:
Well apart from the dozen or so people on this website who view Poles as job-stealing criminals every time a Brexiteer speaks on LBC or Question Time the Poles get mentioned in a derogatory way.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Whinge about Polish? What on earth are you talking about?Fiiish said:
And maybe when people on here whinge about the Polish they should remember those who bravely defended Britain from the Luftwaffe and without whose considerable sacrifices our struggle would have been that much harder or our losses far greater.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"Fiiish said:"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
And yet you feel it is fine to say ‘whinging Brexiters’ ... double standards?
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Not the same thing, no. Yours, a whinging Remainer1
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Sorry I should have put 'whinging Leave voters'.stonemuse said:
A point of order; earlier you complained about the usage of derogatory language and stated that it would help if prople didn't use the “cretinous phrase” 'Remoaner'.Fiiish said:
The link between Eastern Europeans and either jobs/wages or crime rates was an almost daily fixture from whinging Brexiters on here prior to the referendum. Only last week was one poster carrying on this tired trope. But I'll take the collective silence of those who have repeated these claims in one way or another as either amnesia or recognition that their views were wrong.blackpool72 said:
He can't because they don't exist.cafcdave123 said:
name and shame!Fiiish said:
Well apart from the dozen or so people on this website who view Poles as job-stealing criminals every time a Brexiteer speaks on LBC or Question Time the Poles get mentioned in a derogatory way.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Whinge about Polish? What on earth are you talking about?Fiiish said:
And maybe when people on here whinge about the Polish they should remember those who bravely defended Britain from the Luftwaffe and without whose considerable sacrifices our struggle would have been that much harder or our losses far greater.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"Fiiish said:"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
And yet you feel it is fine to say ‘whinging Brexiters’ ... double standards?1 -
All this wanky name calling is what stops people posting on political threads.5
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I agree, they’re all prats.blackpool72 said:All this wanky name calling is what stops people posting on political threads.
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Except me and you mate we are cooooolstonemuse said:
I agree, they’re all prats.blackpool72 said:All this wanky name calling is what stops people posting on political threads.
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Chippy's me best mate1
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I'm everybody 's mate on here.Fiiish said:Chippy's me best mate
We are afterall all Charlton supporters it's a shame some people forget that.5 -
“….£4,300 should not be taken or presented as a prediction of the cost to families. There’s too much uncertainty in the figures and the analysis is about how the overall size of the economy could be affected, not about households’ incomes.”Fiiish said:
Wow even the Torygraph, on a handful of statements, has to rule the Leave campaign made more false statements. The only false statement from a Remainer was an obscure statement from Alan Johnson I doubt anyone remembers.McBobbin said:
This is a half-decent stab http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/eu-referendum-claims-won-brexit-fact-checked/Stig said:
I don't know if anyone has it, but I'd like to see a comparative of the lies and untruths told be each side.Valiantphil said:...Yep, there was a lot of rubbish talked by both sides in the campaign, but the current PM has made it very clear that this will not be the case.
“…whether the gloomy NHS-related predictions are realised depends on future political decisions about how the budget is divided”
“This is wrong. The calculations behind the claim are flawed and the estimates on which it’s based are old and have since been substantially revised.”
“This claim is speculation, but the thinking behind it is reasonable.”
A considered view would be that whatever is predicted about the future, post Brexit, from either side is speculation and/or political rhetoric. The pond in which @Fiiish swims round in circles all day calls them "facts" if they support Remain or are in the Guardian, "lies" if they support Brexit and are not in the Guardian and "false statements" if they are from a Remainer who deliberately mis-quotes ONS statistics .0
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