Or to put it another way, it sounds like what you want is a cull of the British (presumably immigrant) population and a migration ban that will leave key services short of personnel. Better tool up! Those foreigners aren't going to shoot themselves!
You joke but most Brexit voters are still under the illusion that EU migrants are going to be deported en masse in May 2019.
If it helps though anyone who think all non-ethnically British people should not be here could always refuse to use a hospital, surgery, school, shop or service that employs non-English staff. Because if they did use such services they might be at risk of being hypocrites.
So it's not post vote as Osborne along with others suggested? Is it after the triggering of Article 50 or after we've actually left?
I still don't get this 'bottom of the EU' in relation to growth. It fluctuates year on year and I would expect the smaller EU economies to show significant growth now they benefit from their EU membership.
I really do see the disadvantages to leaving the EU, but I'm determined to try and be positive about it. I'm surprised so many on here seem to revel in our nations failings rather than celebrate the successes.
You mean we must make more optimistic forecasts about poor economic numbers. Where have I heard that before.
Otherwise we're traitors.
It's the ignoring of strong economic numbers to highlight perceived poor areas that annoys me. It's about balance.
Not everything is rosy in the garden, as I am well aware of, particularly as they are repeatedly shouted from the rooftops by the same half dozen people on this thread. None of whom ever seem to mention the positives since the vote.
It does seem as if you are desperate for Brexit to fail just so you can say "I told you so".
Traitors? Not sure where you get that from. But feel free to twist any posts from any poster who challenges the negativity.
What are they, then? Really, I am just asking what you are referring to, because when it comes to the hard economic data I cannot think of one which indicates an improving situation since the referendum. All the key parameters we might use seem to be pointing downwards whereas in EU neighbours they are pointing upwards; which is in recent years unusual, the UK normally trends in step with its biggest trading partner.
The Q3 GDP figures should be out next week. As @seriously_red , whom God preserve, has pointed out, you better brace yourselves...
Unemployment figures. That and the highest levels of employment ever recorded. Surely that has to be good news, despite these being mocked as 'zero hours' or part time.
The suggestion that tangible goodies await down the road for everybody post brexit is to be treated with caution. As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok. However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed. There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports. Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always. To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
Nah, we've read some of their posts (see above) and extrapolated. An unsound statistical process I know! Perhaps an exaggeration as well. Maybe we just won't let any new ones in and wait for this lot to simply fuck off. If we tell them to enough times they'll have to!
You joke but most Brexit voters are still under the illusion that EU migrants are going to be deported en masse in May 2019
Asked them all have you?
Most, when offering an opinion, state that they voted to leave because migrants are stealing all the homes and jobs and they take away school and hospital spaces from ethnically British people. So unless they think that these migrants are going to deported in 2019, then it was pretty silly to vote along these lines.
Ah here we go: survey finds anti-immigrant sentiments main reason why people voted to leave
So unless people thought all the job-stealing Poles, Romanians etc. were going to be deported, how exactly did they think voting to leave was going "improve" the situation?
At least we have a useful system for determining who thinks British people are inherently superior to those of other ethnicities. Don't see them having the stones to tell all our non-homegrown players to eff off as they're stealing a living from a British talent.
How about by controlling the numbers so that the Country wasn't seeing an additional 300,000 plus net immigration every year?
Of which over half of that was from outside the EU.
And also our government had powers to limit/taper immigration from new entrants.
People keep saying Poles have ruined builder's careers. So unless they all go back home then we are going to have to wait for them all to retire or die before any difference starts to be made.
There also does not seem to be much political appetite amongst our main parties to restrict immigration from the EU going forwards either. At least not in the order necessary so that there will be a noticeable effect on hospital waiting lists or employment figures in the construction trade.
You want to get hospital waiting lists down? Don't look at the recent immigrants (who barely make a bump in them) - look at the tobacco and alcohol lobbies, who encourage addiction and health issues on an epidemic scale
You want to get hospital waiting lists down? Don't look at the recent immigrants (who barely make a bump in them) - look at the tobacco and alcohol lobbies, who encourage addiction and health issues on an epidemic scale
Or better yet actually fund our hospitals to meet demand. And don't let fuckwits who think junior doctors should be working 60 hour weeks on £27k run our NHS.
I thought a core value of the British working class was to find where you're needed, put in graft and make something of yourself. Isn't a young Polish man moving abroad to find work where it's needed, uprooting his entire life and contributing to the British economy an absolute paragon of these virtues? Isn't he someone we should be looking up to for inspiration rather than vermin we whinge about and wish someone else would exterminate?
I thought a core value of the British working class was to find where you're needed, put in graft and make something of yourself. Isn't a young Polish man moving abroad to find work where it's needed, uprooting his entire life and contributing to the British economy an absolute paragon of these virtues? Isn't he someone we should be looking up to for inspiration rather than vermin we whinge about and wish someone else would exterminate?
Yes but there is an even older British value where people ought to be treated according to the circumstances of their birth. Hence cap-doffing Brexiteers kowtowing to Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg and their other betters.
You want to get hospital waiting lists down? Don't look at the recent immigrants (who barely make a bump in them) - look at the tobacco and alcohol lobbies, who encourage addiction and health issues on an epidemic scale
Bigger problem is the ageing population, both in terms of the increase in diseases of old age, and the inability to discharge them from hospital quickly due to a lack of appropriate home care. Granny cull anyone? :-)
You want to get hospital waiting lists down? Don't look at the recent immigrants (who barely make a bump in them) - look at the tobacco and alcohol lobbies, who encourage addiction and health issues on an epidemic scale
Bigger problem is the ageing population, both in terms of the increase in diseases of old age, and the inability to discharge them from hospital quickly due to a lack of appropriate home care. Granny cull anyone? :-)
Just to be clear, my 'like' for this post is for the reasoning. I'm not supporting a granny cull. I've been accused of ageism on here before.
The suggestion that tangible goodies await down the road for everybody post brexit is to be treated with caution. As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok. However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed. There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports. Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always. To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
I honestly believe that Flanders and Swann are the aspiration for many who voted brexit.
Unless you do not believe in democracy, the more democratic and accountable our government is and the less our affairs are controlled by the EU then the more chance there is we can change things for the better here.
The suggestion that tangible goodies await down the road for everybody post brexit is to be treated with caution. As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok. However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed. There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports. Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always. To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
I honestly believe that Flanders and Swann are the aspiration for many who voted brexit.
Unless you do not believe in democracy, the more democratic and accountable our government is and the less our affairs are controlled by the EU then the more chance there is we can change things for the better here.
So it's not post vote as Osborne along with others suggested? Is it after the triggering of Article 50 or after we've actually left?
I still don't get this 'bottom of the EU' in relation to growth. It fluctuates year on year and I would expect the smaller EU economies to show significant growth now they benefit from their EU membership.
I really do see the disadvantages to leaving the EU, but I'm determined to try and be positive about it. I'm surprised so many on here seem to revel in our nations failings rather than celebrate the successes.
You mean we must make more optimistic forecasts about poor economic numbers. Where have I heard that before.
Otherwise we're traitors.
It's the ignoring of strong economic numbers to highlight perceived poor areas that annoys me. It's about balance.
Not everything is rosy in the garden, as I am well aware of, particularly as they are repeatedly shouted from the rooftops by the same half dozen people on this thread. None of whom ever seem to mention the positives since the vote.
It does seem as if you are desperate for Brexit to fail just so you can say "I told you so".
Traitors? Not sure where you get that from. But feel free to twist any posts from any poster who challenges the negativity.
What are they, then? Really, I am just asking what you are referring to, because when it comes to the hard economic data I cannot think of one which indicates an improving situation since the referendum. All the key parameters we might use seem to be pointing downwards whereas in EU neighbours they are pointing upwards; which is in recent years unusual, the UK normally trends in step with its biggest trading partner.
The Q3 GDP figures should be out next week. As @seriously_red , whom God preserve, has pointed out, you better brace yourselves...
Unemployment figures. That and the highest levels of employment ever recorded. Surely that has to be good news, despite these being mocked as 'zero hours' or part time.
But even if we do not question the nature of some of those jobs, what have the figures achieved got to do with the Brexit referendum? Are you suggesting that a Remain win would have resulted in higher unemployment???
The suggestion that tangible goodies await down the road for everybody post brexit is to be treated with caution. As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok. However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed. There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports. Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always. To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
I honestly believe that Flanders and Swann are the aspiration for many who voted brexit.
Unless you do not believe in democracy, the more democratic and accountable our government is and the less our affairs are controlled by the EU then the more chance there is we can change things for the better here.
"The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999."
100% of the EU's laws were implemented as a result of democratically elected representatives. 98% of those democratic laws the UK voted in favour of. You'd struggle to find a more democratic system anywhere else in the world. Even the UK's own laws have to go through the non-elected House of Lords.
The suggestion that tangible goodies await down the road for everybody post brexit is to be treated with caution. As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok. However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed. There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports. Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always. To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
I honestly believe that Flanders and Swann are the aspiration for many who voted brexit.
Unless you do not believe in democracy, the more democratic and accountable our government is and the less our affairs are controlled by the EU then the more chance there is we can change things for the better here.
"The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999."
100% of the EU's laws were implemented as a result of democratically elected representatives. 98% of those democratic laws the UK voted in favour of. You'd struggle to find a more democratic system anywhere else in the world. Even the UK's own laws have to go through the non-elected House of Lords.
...and that's before we even start all over again on the planned Henry VIII powers Stonemuse has defended as an improvement on the current situation previously.
The suggestion that tangible goodies await down the road for everybody post brexit is to be treated with caution. As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok. However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed. There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports. Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always. To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
I honestly believe that Flanders and Swann are the aspiration for many who voted brexit.
Unless you do not believe in democracy, the more democratic and accountable our government is and the less our affairs are controlled by the EU then the more chance there is we can change things for the better here.
"The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999."
100% of the EU's laws were implemented as a result of democratically elected representatives. 98% of those democratic laws the UK voted in favour of. You'd struggle to find a more democratic system anywhere else in the world. Even the UK's own laws have to go through the non-elected House of Lords.
...and that's before we even start all over again on the planned Henry VIII powers Stonemuse has defended as an improvement on the current situation previously.
Of course. Wouldn't want those democratically elected MPs getting in the way of the Tory agenda, would we?
Saying the EU is undemocratic just proves that they have no idea what they are talking about and have run out of any sensible arguments.
So it's not post vote as Osborne along with others suggested? Is it after the triggering of Article 50 or after we've actually left?
I still don't get this 'bottom of the EU' in relation to growth. It fluctuates year on year and I would expect the smaller EU economies to show significant growth now they benefit from their EU membership.
I really do see the disadvantages to leaving the EU, but I'm determined to try and be positive about it. I'm surprised so many on here seem to revel in our nations failings rather than celebrate the successes.
You mean we must make more optimistic forecasts about poor economic numbers. Where have I heard that before.
Otherwise we're traitors.
It's the ignoring of strong economic numbers to highlight perceived poor areas that annoys me. It's about balance.
Not everything is rosy in the garden, as I am well aware of, particularly as they are repeatedly shouted from the rooftops by the same half dozen people on this thread. None of whom ever seem to mention the positives since the vote.
It does seem as if you are desperate for Brexit to fail just so you can say "I told you so".
Traitors? Not sure where you get that from. But feel free to twist any posts from any poster who challenges the negativity.
What are they, then? Really, I am just asking what you are referring to, because when it comes to the hard economic data I cannot think of one which indicates an improving situation since the referendum. All the key parameters we might use seem to be pointing downwards whereas in EU neighbours they are pointing upwards; which is in recent years unusual, the UK normally trends in step with its biggest trading partner.
The Q3 GDP figures should be out next week. As @seriously_red , whom God preserve, has pointed out, you better brace yourselves...
Unemployment figures. That and the highest levels of employment ever recorded. Surely that has to be good news, despite these being mocked as 'zero hours' or part time.
But even if we do not question the nature of some of those jobs, what have the figures achieved got to do with the Brexit referendum? Are you suggesting that a Remain win would have resulted in higher unemployment???
No. I'm suggesting the employment figures are a positive economic parameter post Brexit vote
What's less good is the number of people in work who need to claim benefits even though they are classed as employed, or the increasing number of workers classed as living in poverty.
The suggestion that tangible goodies await down the road for everybody post brexit is to be treated with caution. As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok. However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed. There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports. Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always. To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
I honestly believe that Flanders and Swann are the aspiration for many who voted brexit.
Unless you do not believe in democracy, the more democratic and accountable our government is and the less our affairs are controlled by the EU then the more chance there is we can change things for the better here.
I have said it so often I'm sick of myself.
The EU is democratic.
Maybe much more democratic than the UK version of democracy, where for example 3 million vote UKIP for one MP, or we have an unelected second chamber including the likes of Karren Brady and folk who are there because of their family bloodline, and that second chamber has a powerful influence on the lives of Her Majesty's Subjects.
You talk of 'change'. When my son was born the Health Secretary was Virginia Bottomley, the Tory MP for South West Surrey. Now the Health Secretary is Virginia Bottomley's first cousin Jeremy Hunt, who is, guess what, the Tory MP for South West Surrey. Nothing like a bit of change huh?
And as for family bloodlines, Jeremy Hunt is fourth cousin to The Queen.
Some may think that the UK ought to be 'sovereign' and 'democratic', well it hasn't happened yet, and it has much more chance of having a representative democracy based on merit if the UK stays in the EU.
Comments
An appointment at the surgery that is not 3 months in advance ?
A seat on a bus/train ?
A school place for your offspring ?
Somewhere to live ?
If it helps though anyone who think all non-ethnically British people should not be here could always refuse to use a hospital, surgery, school, shop or service that employs non-English staff. Because if they did use such services they might be at risk of being hypocrites.
As far as I can tell the class of worker in insurance, legal, bureaucratic, money movement, consultancy, local government admin at the higher levels might do well. The professional middle class in the shires and academia will probably be largely untouched, the property owning wealthy will also probably be ok.
However the medical appointment will be for those able to go private, Uber will get them around, housing will be in a gated community, and the school will be a private or highly selective one. Not a lot different to now for a certain strata of society who will ride the change out unscathed.
There may even be some low level jobs to sort goods coming from countries that the UK hasn't dealt with before. Oh not forgetting blue passports.
Sovereignty and democracy will still be held by the same old political class as always.
To imagine that the great mass of the people will get any tangible benefit seems to be fantasy, well any benefit beyond constantly declaring this kind of colonial sentiment:
I honestly believe that Flanders and Swann are the aspiration for many who voted brexit.
Ah here we go: survey finds anti-immigrant sentiments main reason why people voted to leave
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-latest-news-leave-eu-immigration-main-reason-european-union-survey-a7811651.html
So unless people thought all the job-stealing Poles, Romanians etc. were going to be deported, how exactly did they think voting to leave was going "improve" the situation?
And also our government had powers to limit/taper immigration from new entrants.
People keep saying Poles have ruined builder's careers. So unless they all go back home then we are going to have to wait for them all to retire or die before any difference starts to be made.
There also does not seem to be much political appetite amongst our main parties to restrict immigration from the EU going forwards either. At least not in the order necessary so that there will be a noticeable effect on hospital waiting lists or employment figures in the construction trade.
100% of the EU's laws were implemented as a result of democratically elected representatives. 98% of those democratic laws the UK voted in favour of. You'd struggle to find a more democratic system anywhere else in the world. Even the UK's own laws have to go through the non-elected House of Lords.
Saying the EU is undemocratic just proves that they have no idea what they are talking about and have run out of any sensible arguments.
The EU is democratic.
Maybe much more democratic than the UK version of democracy, where for example 3 million vote UKIP for one MP, or we have an unelected second chamber including the likes of Karren Brady and folk who are there because of their family bloodline, and that second chamber has a powerful influence on the lives of Her Majesty's Subjects.
You talk of 'change'. When my son was born the Health Secretary was Virginia Bottomley, the Tory MP for South West Surrey.
Now the Health Secretary is Virginia Bottomley's first cousin Jeremy Hunt, who is, guess what, the Tory MP for South West Surrey.
Nothing like a bit of change huh?
And as for family bloodlines, Jeremy Hunt is fourth cousin to The Queen.
Some may think that the UK ought to be 'sovereign' and 'democratic', well it hasn't happened yet, and it has much more chance of having a representative democracy based on merit if the UK stays in the EU.