Wow even the Torygraph, on a handful of statements, has to rule the Leave campaign made more false statements. The only false statement from a Remainer was an obscure statement from Alan Johnson I doubt anyone remembers.
“….£4,300 should not be taken or presented as a prediction of the cost to families. There’s too much uncertainty in the figures and the analysis is about how the overall size of the economy could be affected, not about households’ incomes.”
“…whether the gloomy NHS-related predictions are realised depends on future political decisions about how the budget is divided”
“This is wrong. The calculations behind the claim are flawed and the estimates on which it’s based are old and have since been substantially revised.”
“This claim is speculation, but the thinking behind it is reasonable.”
A considered view would be that whatever is predicted about the future, post Brexit, from either side is speculation and/or political rhetoric. The pond in which @Fiiish swims round in circles all day calls them "facts" if they support Remain or are in the Guardian, "lies" if they support Brexit and are not in the Guardian and "false statements" if they are from a Remainer who deliberately mis-quotes ONS statistics .
Just one question for you Dippy if you could pause your usual boring agenda you have against me and anyone else who has sussed you as a pseud...
When Jacob Ree-Mogg says the UK consistently loses in the EU, despite voting with the EU 98% of the time, is that political rhetoric, speculation, or simply not true?
"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"
And maybe when people on here whinge about the Polish they should remember those who bravely defended Britain from the Luftwaffe and without whose considerable sacrifices our struggle would have been that much harder or our losses far greater.
Whinge about Polish? What on earth are you talking about?
Well apart from the dozen or so people on this website who view Poles as job-stealing criminals every time a Brexiteer speaks on LBC or Question Time the Poles get mentioned in a derogatory way.
name and shame!
He can't because they don't exist.
The link between Eastern Europeans and either jobs/wages or crime rates was an almost daily fixture from whinging Brexiters on here prior to the referendum. Only last week was one poster carrying on this tired trope. But I'll take the collective silence of those who have repeated these claims in one way or another as either amnesia or recognition that their views were wrong.
You joke but most Brexit voters are still under the illusion that EU migrants are going to be deported en masse in May 2019.
If it helps though anyone who think all non-ethnically British people should not be here could always refuse to use a hospital, surgery, school, shop or service that employs non-English staff. Because if they did use such services they might be at risk of being hypocrites.
Happy to put the record straight (again!). I can't speak for other Brexit voters, but if there are any deportations (other than on the basis of illegal entry or extradition), then I will be the first at the border point with a banner and a megaphone to protest.
I have no interest in the ethnic origin of our existing population - but I don't want the future population of this island to be 100 million, and we cannot control the number when we have free movement from the EU (500 million population). Not forgetting that the 5 million (?) Brits who live abroad have the right to return should they wish.
The current UK population projection for 2040 is 75 million. There is already a chronic housing shortage, we are no strangers to water rationing, and if we resort to building on agricultural land we will be at the mercy of other nations - just like we are now with energy.
Remoaners often want to make Brexit about racism, but for me it is about numbers.
Not read anymore of the posts today as this says it all. The population explosion we have seen over the last 15-20 years can not continue. The NHS Is bursting at the seams & the housing situation gets worse every year. Doesn't matter what Government is in place not enough houses will be built to house everyone & the population growth has to stop. I know that in recent times we have accepted in more non-EU nationals than EU ones, but some are Commonwealth citizens and so we can't stop those.
You joke but most Brexit voters are still under the illusion that EU migrants are going to be deported en masse in May 2019.
If it helps though anyone who think all non-ethnically British people should not be here could always refuse to use a hospital, surgery, school, shop or service that employs non-English staff. Because if they did use such services they might be at risk of being hypocrites.
Happy to put the record straight (again!). I can't speak for other Brexit voters, but if there are any deportations (other than on the basis of illegal entry or extradition), then I will be the first at the border point with a banner and a megaphone to protest.
I have no interest in the ethnic origin of our existing population - but I don't want the future population of this island to be 100 million, and we cannot control the number when we have free movement from the EU (500 million population). Not forgetting that the 5 million (?) Brits who live abroad have the right to return should they wish.
The current UK population projection for 2040 is 75 million. There is already a chronic housing shortage, we are no strangers to water rationing, and if we resort to building on agricultural land we will be at the mercy of other nations - just like we are now with energy.
Remoaners often want to make Brexit about racism, but for me it is about numbers.
Not read anymore of the posts today as this says it all. The population explosion we have seen over the last 15-20 years can not continue. The NHS Is bursting at the seams & the housing situation gets worse every year. Doesn't matter what Government is in place not enough houses will be built to house everyone & the population growth has to stop. I know that in recent times we have accepted in more non-EU nationals than EU ones, but some are Commonwealth citizens and so we can't stop those.
"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"
And maybe when people on here whinge about the Polish they should remember those who bravely defended Britain from the Luftwaffe and without whose considerable sacrifices our struggle would have been that much harder or our losses far greater.
Whinge about Polish? What on earth are you talking about?
Currently drinking a very, very nice Polish beer on a train from Poznan to Warsaw, there's absolutely nothing to whinge about the Poles from me!
Get them in my local shop... Could have been taken anywhere that picture.
That list doesn't include Bangladesh. Apparently that is the kind of economy that is the future for U.K. Trading relationships. GDP 2 billion. EU GDP 16 Trillion.
...Yep, there was a lot of rubbish talked by both sides in the campaign, but the current PM has made it very clear that this will not be the case.
I don't know if anyone has it, but I'd like to see a comparative of the lies and untruths told be each side. I've heard many times from pro-Brexit people that both sides were just as culpable. I've no doubt that there were untruths from members of the remain camp; I've not seen a politician yet who didn't want to spin a few facts in their favour. But the magnitude and gravity of the lies told by people in the leave camp was quite simply breathtaking. From 30 years of wholly unsubstantiated dripfed redtop horror stories to false EEA claims to parading around the country in a bus with fake millions etched on the side. Did the remain side really say or do anything remotely equivalent?
It's becoming very noticeable, how Brexiteers are increasingly keen on the democracy mantra. I suppose that as their arguments about the benefits of leaving are steadily eroding, there's very little else for them to try and hang their hat on. But honesty is a pre-requisite of democracy. Giving people a vote and then lying to them about what they are voting for is not democratic. It is shameful manipulation. It's what you might have expected from the former soviet union or some tinpot dictatorship in the sort country that Ross Kemp might visit.
We were lied to. Each and every one of us. That is not democracy, it is a national disgrace. And if we can expect more of the same (after all there were no official sanctions or censure for any of the liars who led us down the garden path) with our new found 'sovereignty' (ha ha), it seems that we will be indefinitely entering a period of democratic paucity that's been unseen in this country for decades.
Fortunately, we have a Parliamentary democracy and whatever the veracity of the campaigns in 2016, it happened so we must move on.
For sure those supporting a hard Brexit and "no deal" are very keen to get on with it without discussion nor debate. The Brexiteers who wish to rush things through have the support of c. 34% of the country and perhaps half the Conservative Party MPs and membership. They make a lot of noise and the Mail, Express and Telegraph amplify this. As @seth plum mentions leavers are struggling with a road map because there are two completely different directions to take: No deal or an EU lite option.
Fortunately, Parliament is not allowing for Brexit to be rushed and we are now at another pivotal point where the "Great repeal bill" has stalled. Of some 300 amendments tabled, Keir Starmer and colleagues have identified ten or 12 which will attract the support of enough (20) Tory MPs to defeat the government. This has led to the debates being postponed to avoid a government defeat.
Talks with the EU27 have also stalled. The UK have not yet answered the three Brexit questions whilst May used a speech to offer €20bn but this was not put into the negotiation papers. €20bn is more than zero but appears to be short of the commitment and costs that the EU is looking for.
To be fair to May it was not bad for an opening gambit but as posted before the final number is down to the EU27 if we want a trading relationship after March 2019.
The fundamental defect with the referendum was that it didn't specify the type of Brexit intended and we now have people interpreting that to their own ends. As a country, we now have a chance to take stock of the options and communicate our thoughts to our own MPs for they will have the final say on the approach. Government departments and MPs will have access to serious research and forecasts and the passage of time will see various trends evolve such as immigration, growth, fx rates and the standard of living in different parts of the country.
Net immigration is already down by almost 100,000 as immigration slows by 50,000 and more people leave the country.
There is a theory emerging that the EU27 are making concessions in tone and language so as to give May some more leeway to negotiate a path. They prefer that she remains in post to see this through. Meanwhile two thirds of the country wish to stay in the CU and SM.
So we should expect this to go on for the next nine months but various business organisations are pushing for clarity. For they need to make contingency plans for March 2019 - and execute if the prospect of no deal increases. Already programmes have been halted.
"No deal" isn't about the import of goods - nothing to do with BMW and Proseccu! 80% of the UK economy is service based and services need for the UK to be in the EEA to ensure no barriers. It doesn't matter how big the potential markets in China, India and the US for it will take years to negotiate a decent deal for services.
So the Government and Parliament can choose the @i_b_b_o_r_g option to diversify... and crash the economy in the process by hindering service exports to the EU. Or perhaps not!
In other words Parliament is in a position to "take back control". But what a weird and wonderful way to get here and will people let fake news populists take over again? Or will they reward the adults in the room at the next election?
Only if he doesn't realise we've already had WW1 and WW2.
Or perhaps Dave meant just a "European only" war, where the Ruskies just watch the action from the annexed bit of Ukraine, while Trump doesn't even notice the unrest, and we keep all the fighting within mainland Europe ?
Only if he doesn't realise we've already had WW1 and WW2.
Or perhaps Dave meant just a "European only" war, where the Ruskies just watch the action from the annexed bit of Ukraine, while Trump doesn't even notice the unrest, and we keep all the fighting within mainland Europe ?
Poor show from Dave - whichever way he meant it.
Please point to an actual quote from David Cameron that explicitly says another world war definitely will happen if the UK leaves the EU. Otherwise you're talking shit.
Only if he doesn't realise we've already had WW1 and WW2.
Or perhaps Dave meant just a "European only" war, where the Ruskies just watch the action from the annexed bit of Ukraine, while Trump doesn't even notice the unrest, and we keep all the fighting within mainland Europe ?
Poor show from Dave - whichever way he meant it.
Please point to an actual quote from David Cameron that explicitly says another world war definitely will happen if the UK leaves the EU. Otherwise you're talking shit.
Only if he doesn't realise we've already had WW1 and WW2.
Or perhaps Dave meant just a "European only" war, where the Ruskies just watch the action from the annexed bit of Ukraine, while Trump doesn't even notice the unrest, and we keep all the fighting within mainland Europe ?
Poor show from Dave - whichever way he meant it.
Please point to an actual quote from David Cameron that explicitly says another world war definitely will happen if the UK leaves the EU. Otherwise you're talking shit.
You named those anti Polish posters yet?
Go back through this thread and other Brexit threads. Plenty of them. I don't commit which posters have posted what to memory.
Maybe you could think about contributing something to this thread other than being an apologist for xenophobia?
Only if he doesn't realise we've already had WW1 and WW2.
Or perhaps Dave meant just a "European only" war, where the Ruskies just watch the action from the annexed bit of Ukraine, while Trump doesn't even notice the unrest, and we keep all the fighting within mainland Europe ?
Poor show from Dave - whichever way he meant it.
Please point to an actual quote from David Cameron that explicitly says another world war definitely will happen if the UK leaves the EU. Otherwise you're talking shit.
You named those anti Polish posters yet?
Go back through this thread and other Brexit threads. Plenty of them. I don't commit which posters have posted what to memory.
Maybe you could think about contributing something to this thread other than being an apologist for xenophobia?
LOL, despite calling out others you can't back up your false claims.
Only if he doesn't realise we've already had WW1 and WW2.
Or perhaps Dave meant just a "European only" war, where the Ruskies just watch the action from the annexed bit of Ukraine, while Trump doesn't even notice the unrest, and we keep all the fighting within mainland Europe ?
Poor show from Dave - whichever way he meant it.
Please point to an actual quote from David Cameron that explicitly says another world war definitely will happen if the UK leaves the EU. Otherwise you're talking shit.
You named those anti Polish posters yet?
Go back through this thread and other Brexit threads. Plenty of them. I don't commit which posters have posted what to memory.
Maybe you could think about contributing something to this thread other than being an apologist for xenophobia?
LOL, despite calling out others you can't back up your false claims.
You have been caught out phish, get over it.
You only need to go back to page 21 on this thread to see anti-Pole whinging.
So backed up my true claim. Maybe someone can find that fictional WW3 quote.
Where'd these figures come from Prague, any idea? Interested to see if they include the Rotterdam Effect.
He does not say. However in the replies, someone has posted up this link to the Full Facts page on the issue, which attempts to answer you second point.
Only if he doesn't realise we've already had WW1 and WW2.
Or perhaps Dave meant just a "European only" war, where the Ruskies just watch the action from the annexed bit of Ukraine, while Trump doesn't even notice the unrest, and we keep all the fighting within mainland Europe ?
Poor show from Dave - whichever way he meant it.
Please point to an actual quote from David Cameron that explicitly says another world war definitely will happen if the UK leaves the EU. Otherwise you're talking shit.
You named those anti Polish posters yet?
Go back through this thread and other Brexit threads. Plenty of them. I don't commit which posters have posted what to memory.
Maybe you could think about contributing something to this thread other than being an apologist for xenophobia?
LOL, despite calling out others you can't back up your false claims.
You have been caught out phish, get over it.
You only need to go back to page 21 on this thread to see anti-Pole whinging.
So backed up my true claim. Maybe someone can find that fictional WW3 quote.
Oh, and get over it.
I don't have to go back to anything, you have made this claim so name the post/poster.
You're full of it most of the time so pull up the people you are accusing
Only if he doesn't realise we've already had WW1 and WW2.
Or perhaps Dave meant just a "European only" war, where the Ruskies just watch the action from the annexed bit of Ukraine, while Trump doesn't even notice the unrest, and we keep all the fighting within mainland Europe ?
Poor show from Dave - whichever way he meant it.
Please point to an actual quote from David Cameron that explicitly says another world war definitely will happen if the UK leaves the EU. Otherwise you're talking shit.
You named those anti Polish posters yet?
Go back through this thread and other Brexit threads. Plenty of them. I don't commit which posters have posted what to memory.
Maybe you could think about contributing something to this thread other than being an apologist for xenophobia?
LOL, despite calling out others you can't back up your false claims.
You have been caught out phish, get over it.
You only need to go back to page 21 on this thread to see anti-Pole whinging.
So backed up my true claim. Maybe someone can find that fictional WW3 quote.
Oh, and get over it.
I don't have to go back to anything, you have made this claim so name the post/poster.
You're full of it most of the time so pull up the people you are accusing
Take it you didn't go read page 21 then. Because it proves you wrong and full of shit.
Only if he doesn't realise we've already had WW1 and WW2.
Or perhaps Dave meant just a "European only" war, where the Ruskies just watch the action from the annexed bit of Ukraine, while Trump doesn't even notice the unrest, and we keep all the fighting within mainland Europe ?
Poor show from Dave - whichever way he meant it.
Please point to an actual quote from David Cameron that explicitly says another world war definitely will happen if the UK leaves the EU. Otherwise you're talking shit.
You named those anti Polish posters yet?
Go back through this thread and other Brexit threads. Plenty of them. I don't commit which posters have posted what to memory.
Maybe you could think about contributing something to this thread other than being an apologist for xenophobia?
LOL, despite calling out others you can't back up your false claims.
You have been caught out phish, get over it.
You only need to go back to page 21 on this thread to see anti-Pole whinging.
So backed up my true claim. Maybe someone can find that fictional WW3 quote.
Oh, and get over it.
I don't have to go back to anything, you have made this claim so name the post/poster.
You're full of it most of the time so pull up the people you are accusing
Take it you didn't go read page 21 then. Because it proves you wrong and full of shit.
I just did and all I can see is someone of the opinion that Eastern Europeanss being brought in to some of the trades in the building industry has driven the rates down.
Only if he doesn't realise we've already had WW1 and WW2.
Or perhaps Dave meant just a "European only" war, where the Ruskies just watch the action from the annexed bit of Ukraine, while Trump doesn't even notice the unrest, and we keep all the fighting within mainland Europe ?
Poor show from Dave - whichever way he meant it.
Please point to an actual quote from David Cameron that explicitly says another world war definitely will happen if the UK leaves the EU. Otherwise you're talking shit.
You named those anti Polish posters yet?
Go back through this thread and other Brexit threads. Plenty of them. I don't commit which posters have posted what to memory.
Maybe you could think about contributing something to this thread other than being an apologist for xenophobia?
LOL, despite calling out others you can't back up your false claims.
You have been caught out phish, get over it.
You only need to go back to page 21 on this thread to see anti-Pole whinging.
So backed up my true claim. Maybe someone can find that fictional WW3 quote.
Oh, and get over it.
I don't have to go back to anything, you have made this claim so name the post/poster.
You're full of it most of the time so pull up the people you are accusing
Take it you didn't go read page 21 then. Because it proves you wrong and full of shit.
Only if he doesn't realise we've already had WW1 and WW2.
Or perhaps Dave meant just a "European only" war, where the Ruskies just watch the action from the annexed bit of Ukraine, while Trump doesn't even notice the unrest, and we keep all the fighting within mainland Europe ?
Poor show from Dave - whichever way he meant it.
Please point to an actual quote from David Cameron that explicitly says another world war definitely will happen if the UK leaves the EU. Otherwise you're talking shit.
You named those anti Polish posters yet?
Go back through this thread and other Brexit threads. Plenty of them. I don't commit which posters have posted what to memory.
Maybe you could think about contributing something to this thread other than being an apologist for xenophobia?
LOL, despite calling out others you can't back up your false claims.
You have been caught out phish, get over it.
You only need to go back to page 21 on this thread to see anti-Pole whinging.
So backed up my true claim. Maybe someone can find that fictional WW3 quote.
Oh, and get over it.
I don't have to go back to anything, you have made this claim so name the post/poster.
You're full of it most of the time so pull up the people you are accusing
Take it you didn't go read page 21 then. Because it proves you wrong and full of shit.
You failing to back your claims up makes me full of shit?
Do you actually believe all the bollox You come out with or am I about to get a woooosh round the head?
Comments
When Jacob Ree-Mogg says the UK consistently loses in the EU, despite voting with the EU 98% of the time, is that political rhetoric, speculation, or simply not true?
NEXT!
For sure those supporting a hard Brexit and "no deal" are very keen to get on with it without discussion nor debate. The Brexiteers who wish to rush things through have the support of c. 34% of the country and perhaps half the Conservative Party MPs and membership. They make a lot of noise and the Mail, Express and Telegraph amplify this. As @seth plum mentions leavers are struggling with a road map because there are two completely different directions to take: No deal or an EU lite option.
Fortunately, Parliament is not allowing for Brexit to be rushed and we are now at another pivotal point where the "Great repeal bill" has stalled. Of some 300 amendments tabled, Keir Starmer and colleagues have identified ten or 12 which will attract the support of enough (20) Tory MPs to defeat the government. This has led to the debates being postponed to avoid a government defeat.
Talks with the EU27 have also stalled. The UK have not yet answered the three Brexit questions whilst May used a speech to offer €20bn but this was not put into the negotiation papers. €20bn is more than zero but appears to be short of the commitment and costs that the EU is looking for.
To be fair to May it was not bad for an opening gambit but as posted before the final number is down to the EU27 if we want a trading relationship after March 2019.
The fundamental defect with the referendum was that it didn't specify the type of Brexit intended and we now have people interpreting that to their own ends. As a country, we now have a chance to take stock of the options and communicate our thoughts to our own MPs for they will have the final say on the approach. Government departments and MPs will have access to serious research and forecasts and the passage of time will see various trends evolve such as immigration, growth, fx rates and the standard of living in different parts of the country.
Net immigration is already down by almost 100,000 as immigration slows by 50,000 and more people leave the country.
There is a theory emerging that the EU27 are making concessions in tone and language so as to give May some more leeway to negotiate a path. They prefer that she remains in post to see this through. Meanwhile two thirds of the country wish to stay in the CU and SM.
So we should expect this to go on for the next nine months but various business organisations are pushing for clarity. For they need to make contingency plans for March 2019 - and execute if the prospect of no deal increases. Already programmes have been halted.
"No deal" isn't about the import of goods - nothing to do with BMW and Proseccu! 80% of the UK economy is service based and services need for the UK to be in the EEA to ensure no barriers. It doesn't matter how big the potential markets in China, India and the US for it will take years to negotiate a decent deal for services.
So the Government and Parliament can choose the @i_b_b_o_r_g option to diversify... and crash the economy in the process by hindering service exports to the EU. Or perhaps not!
In other words Parliament is in a position to "take back control". But what a weird and wonderful way to get here and will people let fake news populists take over again? Or will they reward the adults in the room at the next election?
Or perhaps Dave meant just a "European only" war, where the Ruskies just watch the action from the annexed bit of Ukraine, while Trump doesn't even notice the unrest, and we keep all the fighting within mainland Europe ?
Poor show from Dave - whichever way he meant it.
You named those anti Polish posters yet?
Maybe you could think about contributing something to this thread other than being an apologist for xenophobia?
You have been caught out phish, get over it.
So backed up my true claim. Maybe someone can find that fictional WW3 quote.
Oh, and get over it.
Your serve...
You're full of it most of the time so pull up the people you are accusing
What's "anti-Polish" or "xenophobic" about that?
Do you actually believe all the bollox You come out with or am I about to get a woooosh round the head?