I think heavy bureaucracy and Britain's high taxation of almost everything under the sun scares a lot more countries from investing in Britain than BREXIT does.
Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Stupid proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not.
Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth, possibly. Being part of some "union" would not help them at all. The economy is great in Singapore because of their economic principles, not because they are part of some greater political or economic whole. To think Britain needs to be part of the EU to succeed seems like a serious case of lack of confidence on behalf of its people, given its history, economy and social influence.
The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom.
Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false. Who is to say those who got those predictions wrong will suddenly be right about the long-term predictions? Even if there is an adjustment period upon leaving, any significant drops would just lead to bargains to be had and money would eventually come back in, assuming Britain does not cut its own throat with regulations, excess taxes and extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm.
Plus, given the direction governments are going in other EU countries like Hungary and Poland and the rise of the far-right in several other countries, getting out now might save a lot of grief.... later. A nice, stable island economy sounds pretty good if the EU starts fraying at the seams down the line. There is an assumption that the EU is going to live happily ever after in the anti-BREXIT argument. Ain't necessarily so.
I believe, as I do about most countries, your future is in your hands, and will rise or fall on how your country is run, not the phantom safety of the collective.
Lot of utter bollocks there that you have made up, presented as fact.
Nice try...
LOL, I made it clear it was "opinion" and "belief" and said so more than once, so your comment on that point is simply made-up. Also, by calling me "Nigel" you essentially made your retort one of ad hominem, which means you essentially negated anything you have to say on the matter. Also, I was not "trying" anything. I have nothing to prove because I don't really care which way your country goes in BREXIT. I have enough in my country to worry about, LOL.
I just state my belief that over the very long run, BREXIT will be at least marginally good as long as your country does not become Corbyn's wet dream.
This is a message board, not the voting booth. Opinions are opinions and thats the whole point of this board. I have mine. You have yours. I am fine if your opinion is different. And if you don't like mine, that's fine with me too. If it upsets you and you need to make misleading statements about it and make sly ad hominem to feel better about yours, well, that's your emotional issue, not mine. Next.
I think heavy bureaucracy and Britain's high taxation of almost everything under the sun scares a lot more countries from investing in Britain than BREXIT does.
Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Stupid proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not.
Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth, possibly. Being part of some "union" would not help them at all. The economy is great in Singapore because of their economic principles, not because they are part of some greater political or economic whole. To think Britain needs to be part of the EU to succeed seems like a serious case of lack of confidence on behalf of its people, given its history, economy and social influence.
The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom.
Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false. Who is to say those who got those predictions wrong will suddenly be right about the long-term predictions? Even if there is an adjustment period upon leaving, any significant drops would just lead to bargains to be had and money would eventually come back in, assuming Britain does not cut its own throat with regulations, excess taxes and extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm.
Plus, given the direction governments are going in other EU countries like Hungary and Poland and the rise of the far-right in several other countries, getting out now might save a lot of grief.... later. A nice, stable island economy sounds pretty good if the EU starts fraying at the seams down the line. There is an assumption that the EU is going to live happily ever after in the anti-BREXIT argument. Ain't necessarily so.
I believe, as I do about most countries, your future is in your hands, and will rise or fall on how your country is run, not the phantom safety of the collective.
Lot of utter bollocks there that you have made up, presented as fact.
Nice try...
LOL, I made it clear it was "opinion" and "belief" and said so more than once, so your comment on that point is simply made-up. Also, by calling me "Nigel" you essentially made your retort one of ad hominem, which means you essentially negated anything you have to say on the matter. Next.
36,000+ vacancies Not the promised 10,000 increase in student nurses 14,000+ experienced staff not coming into the system Lowering of entry standards
Just some of the facts you chose not to mention whilst I acknowledged your one fact.
As you say only one of us being biased.
Nice side tracking. But, sticking to the post I was replying to, it still appears to be you.
Sometimes, it's good just to accept it.
OK one last try and I accept that this is as good as pointless.
I posted a link to a graph showing the drop in EU trained nurses coming to the UK which could be extrapolated to mean we would have 14,400 fewer nurses in England. I also mentioned that the govt. had taken away student nurse bursaries which wouldn't help.
You responded with a quote from UCAS (no link provided) saying numbers where up, you also added an article digging out Tony Blair's handling of the NHS and then chucked in a 'no criticism of Blair from the usual suspects' type comment.
I then came back to you and asked why you had only put up one fact regarding the trainee nurses and that it shouldn't be looked upon in isolation. I also answered your 'Blair' comment and your 'NHS' comment. I then questioned your stance that you are neutral. Later I gave you four additional facts that you might want to consider.
You responded that I was biased, even though I acknowledged your one fact, said I had no time for Blair (I only voted for him once but believe that he was 100 times better than this current shower of shit we have in govt.) and gave my brief opinion of the NHS and invited you to look at my previous posts on the subject. You have not acknowledged or responded to any of my points but kept just trotting out your line. It reminds me quite a lot of Trump or Chippy.
I suppose I expected better of you but will consign you to the 'joke posters' section in my head that I tend to ignore.
Edit: I ignore the 'joke posters'. Unfortunately I listen to my head!
No idea what that means Art, I think you should leave humour to others. The point I was making is that someone who has bought up Labour immigration policy and the NHS under Tony Blair in the past 24 hours might be on slightly dodgy ground accusing others of sidetracking...
Is it only bringing in some context when you do it, but sidetracking when others do?
Don't say that, I was going to suggest that Arty stuck to humour on the twitter and photo threads.
I think heavy bureaucracy and Britain's high taxation of almost everything under the sun scares a lot more countries from investing in Britain than BREXIT does.
Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not.
Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth, possibly. Being part of some "union" would not help them at all. The economy is great in Singapore because of their economic principles, not because they are part of some greater political or economic whole. To think Britain needs to be part of the EU to succeed seems like a serious case of lack of confidence on behalf of its people, given its history, economy and social influence.
The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom.
Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false. Who is to say those who got those predictions wrong will suddenly be right about the long-term predictions? Even if there is an adjustment period upon leaving, any significant drops would just lead to bargains to be had and money would eventually come back in, assuming Britain does not cut its own throat with regulations, excess taxes and extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm.
Plus, given the direction governments are going in other EU countries like Hungary and Poland and the rise of the far-right in several other countries, getting out now might save a lot of grief.... later. A nice, stable island economy sounds pretty good if the EU starts fraying at the seams down the line. There is an assumption that the EU is going to live happily ever after in the anti-BREXIT argument. Ain't necessarily so.
I believe, as I do about most countries, your future is in your hands, and will rise or fall on how your country is run, not the phantom safety of the collective.
Not taxed enough in the UK. Is it true that 20 million Americans have no healthcare, that a caesarian section costs $30,000, and even if insured prebirth check ups can reach $1600 excess charge, and a new dad gets charged $60 to hold his new born baby?
I think heavy bureaucracy and Britain's high taxation of almost everything under the sun scares a lot more countries from investing in Britain than BREXIT does.
Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Stupid proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not.
Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth, possibly. Being part of some "union" would not help them at all. The economy is great in Singapore because of their economic principles, not because they are part of some greater political or economic whole. To think Britain needs to be part of the EU to succeed seems like a serious case of lack of confidence on behalf of its people, given its history, economy and social influence.
The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom.
Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false. Who is to say those who got those predictions wrong will suddenly be right about the long-term predictions? Even if there is an adjustment period upon leaving, any significant drops would just lead to bargains to be had and money would eventually come back in, assuming Britain does not cut its own throat with regulations, excess taxes and extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm.
Plus, given the direction governments are going in other EU countries like Hungary and Poland and the rise of the far-right in several other countries, getting out now might save a lot of grief.... later. A nice, stable island economy sounds pretty good if the EU starts fraying at the seams down the line. There is an assumption that the EU is going to live happily ever after in the anti-BREXIT argument. Ain't necessarily so.
I believe, as I do about most countries, your future is in your hands, and will rise or fall on how your country is run, not the phantom safety of the collective.
Lot of utter bollocks there that you have made up, presented as fact.
Nice try...
LOL, I made it clear it was "opinion" and "belief" and said so more than once, so your comment on that point is simply made-up. Also, by calling me "Nigel" you essentially made your retort one of ad hominem, which means you essentially negated anything you have to say on the matter. Also, I was not "trying" anything. I have nothing to prove because I don't really care which way your country goes in BREXIT. I have enough in my country to worry about, LOL.
I just state my belief that over the very long run, BREXIT will be at least marginally good as long as your country does not become Corbyn's wet dream.
This is a message board, not the voting booth. Opinions are opinions and thats the whole point of this board. I have mine. You have yours. I am fine if your opinion is different. And if you don't like mine, that's fine with me too. If it upsets you and you need to make misleading statements about it and make sly ad hominem to feel better about yours, well, that's your emotional issue, not mine. Next.
Have you got a solution to the Irish Border problem?
I think heavy bureaucracy and Britain's high taxation of almost everything under the sun scares a lot more countries from investing in Britain than BREXIT does.
Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Stupid proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not.
Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth, possibly. Being part of some "union" would not help them at all. The economy is great in Singapore because of their economic principles, not because they are part of some greater political or economic whole. To think Britain needs to be part of the EU to succeed seems like a serious case of lack of confidence on behalf of its people, given its history, economy and social influence.
The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom.
Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false. Who is to say those who got those predictions wrong will suddenly be right about the long-term predictions? Even if there is an adjustment period upon leaving, any significant drops would just lead to bargains to be had and money would eventually come back in, assuming Britain does not cut its own throat with regulations, excess taxes and extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm.
Plus, given the direction governments are going in other EU countries like Hungary and Poland and the rise of the far-right in several other countries, getting out now might save a lot of grief.... later. A nice, stable island economy sounds pretty good if the EU starts fraying at the seams down the line. There is an assumption that the EU is going to live happily ever after in the anti-BREXIT argument. Ain't necessarily so.
I believe, as I do about most countries, your future is in your hands, and will rise or fall on how your country is run, not the phantom safety of the collective.
Lot of utter bollocks there that you have made up, presented as fact.
Nice try...
LOL, I made it clear it was "opinion" and "belief" and said so more than once, so your comment on that point is simply made-up. Also, by calling me "Nigel" you essentially made your retort one of ad hominem, which means you essentially negated anything you have to say on the matter. Also, I was not "trying" anything. I have nothing to prove because I don't really care which way your country goes in BREXIT. I have enough in my country to worry about, LOL.
I just state my belief that over the very long run, BREXIT will be at least marginally good as long as your country does not become Corbyn's wet dream.
This is a message board, not the voting booth. Opinions are opinions and thats the whole point of this board. I have mine. You have yours. I am fine if your opinion is different. And if you don't like mine, that's fine with me too. If it upsets you and you need to make misleading statements about it and make sly ad hominem to feel better about yours, well, that's your emotional issue, not mine. Next.
Have you got a solution to the Irish Border problem?
What's the enterprise value of a hard border in Ireland?
I think heavy bureaucracy and Britain's high taxation of almost everything under the sun scares a lot more countries from investing in Britain than BREXIT does.
Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Stupid proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not.
Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth, possibly. Being part of some "union" would not help them at all. The economy is great in Singapore because of their economic principles, not because they are part of some greater political or economic whole. To think Britain needs to be part of the EU to succeed seems like a serious case of lack of confidence on behalf of its people, given its history, economy and social influence.
The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom.
Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false. Who is to say those who got those predictions wrong will suddenly be right about the long-term predictions? Even if there is an adjustment period upon leaving, any significant drops would just lead to bargains to be had and money would eventually come back in, assuming Britain does not cut its own throat with regulations, excess taxes and extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm.
Plus, given the direction governments are going in other EU countries like Hungary and Poland and the rise of the far-right in several other countries, getting out now might save a lot of grief.... later. A nice, stable island economy sounds pretty good if the EU starts fraying at the seams down the line. There is an assumption that the EU is going to live happily ever after in the anti-BREXIT argument. Ain't necessarily so.
I believe, as I do about most countries, your future is in your hands, and will rise or fall on how your country is run, not the phantom safety of the collective.
Lot of utter bollocks there that you have made up, presented as fact.
Nice try...
LOL, I made it clear it was "opinion" and "belief" and said so more than once, so your comment on that point is simply made-up. Also, by calling me "Nigel" you essentially made your retort one of ad hominem, which means you essentially negated anything you have to say on the matter. Also, I was not "trying" anything. I have nothing to prove because I don't really care which way your country goes in BREXIT. I have enough in my country to worry about, LOL.
I just state my belief that over the very long run, BREXIT will be at least marginally good as long as your country does not become Corbyn's wet dream.
This is a message board, not the voting booth. Opinions are opinions and thats the whole point of this board. I have mine. You have yours. I am fine if your opinion is different. And if you don't like mine, that's fine with me too. If it upsets you and you need to make misleading statements about it and make sly ad hominem to feel better about yours, well, that's your emotional issue, not mine. Next.
Have you got a solution to the Irish Border problem?
What's the enterprise value of a hard border in Ireland?
That chimes with the heart of the brexit issue with many pro-brexit posters. Money. Not many of them say much about the sovereignty and democracy stuff in comparison to stuff about finance.
I think heavy bureaucracy and Britain's high taxation of almost everything under the sun scares a lot more countries from investing in Britain than BREXIT does.
Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Stupid proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not.
Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth, possibly. Being part of some "union" would not help them at all. The economy is great in Singapore because of their economic principles, not because they are part of some greater political or economic whole. To think Britain needs to be part of the EU to succeed seems like a serious case of lack of confidence on behalf of its people, given its history, economy and social influence.
The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom.
Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false. Who is to say those who got those predictions wrong will suddenly be right about the long-term predictions? Even if there is an adjustment period upon leaving, any significant drops would just lead to bargains to be had and money would eventually come back in, assuming Britain does not cut its own throat with regulations, excess taxes and extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm.
Plus, given the direction governments are going in other EU countries like Hungary and Poland and the rise of the far-right in several other countries, getting out now might save a lot of grief.... later. A nice, stable island economy sounds pretty good if the EU starts fraying at the seams down the line. There is an assumption that the EU is going to live happily ever after in the anti-BREXIT argument. Ain't necessarily so.
I believe, as I do about most countries, your future is in your hands, and will rise or fall on how your country is run, not the phantom safety of the collective.
Lot of utter bollocks there that you have made up, presented as fact.
Nice try...
LOL, I made it clear it was "opinion" and "belief" and said so more than once, so your comment on that point is simply made-up. Also, by calling me "Nigel" you essentially made your retort one of ad hominem, which means you essentially negated anything you have to say on the matter. Also, I was not "trying" anything. I have nothing to prove because I don't really care which way your country goes in BREXIT. I have enough in my country to worry about, LOL.
I just state my belief that over the very long run, BREXIT will be at least marginally good as long as your country does not become Corbyn's wet dream.
This is a message board, not the voting booth. Opinions are opinions and thats the whole point of this board. I have mine. You have yours. I am fine if your opinion is different. And if you don't like mine, that's fine with me too. If it upsets you and you need to make misleading statements about it and make sly ad hominem to feel better about yours, well, that's your emotional issue, not mine. Next.
Bet your glad you posted your opinion on this thread... Some do and never post here again.. Sadly SWA has found that out, for having the audacity to have a REAL different view from the righteous.
17 million people voted to leave the EU and 26 million people voted for the Tories and Labour last year, both of which parties had manifestos saying we would not be in the Customs Union.
And STILL there are people trying to keep us in both and playing fast and loose with our democracy. There are few enough democratic countries in the world without us becoming one where the popular vote means nothing.
Is the "rest of the world" not investing in Germany? I ask because CIT, personal income tax and employer social charges are all higher there than in the UK.
Germany is also leading the way in clamping down on social media companies' failure to control their output, and on Uber's failure to comply with relevant laws designed to ensure citizens' safety.
When it comes to taxing social media companies, you misrepresent the key issue. These companies are taking the piss on corporate tax, as we have discussed endlessly on several threads. As a result they confer on themselves an unfair advantage over their rivals who pay those taxes according to national laws. As a US businessmen, I am sure you believe in fair competition.
When it comes to dealing with the tax avoidance of those bloated shysters Google, Facebook, Amazon, and Uber, all of them neighbours of yourself the West Coast of the USA, funny enough, it will be the EU that will lead the way in finding a credible solution that brings them to heel; that's because the tax issue has become trans-national and only a powerful group of countries has the clout to enforce change. By leaving the EU, the UK gives up the chance to join in this collective effort, and thus to succeed in taxing them effectively.
I think heavy bureaucracy and Britain's high taxation of almost everything under the sun scares a lot more countries from investing in Britain than BREXIT does.
Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Stupid proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not.
Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth, possibly. Being part of some "union" would not help them at all. The economy is great in Singapore because of their economic principles, not because they are part of some greater political or economic whole. To think Britain needs to be part of the EU to succeed seems like a serious case of lack of confidence on behalf of its people, given its history, economy and social influence.
The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom.
Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false. Who is to say those who got those predictions wrong will suddenly be right about the long-term predictions? Even if there is an adjustment period upon leaving, any significant drops would just lead to bargains to be had and money would eventually come back in, assuming Britain does not cut its own throat with regulations, excess taxes and extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm.
Plus, given the direction governments are going in other EU countries like Hungary and Poland and the rise of the far-right in several other countries, getting out now might save a lot of grief.... later. A nice, stable island economy sounds pretty good if the EU starts fraying at the seams down the line. There is an assumption that the EU is going to live happily ever after in the anti-BREXIT argument. Ain't necessarily so.
I believe, as I do about most countries, your future is in your hands, and will rise or fall on how your country is run, not the phantom safety of the collective.
Lot of utter bollocks there that you have made up, presented as fact.
Nice try...
LOL, I made it clear it was "opinion" and "belief" and said so more than once, so your comment on that point is simply made-up. Also, by calling me "Nigel" you essentially made your retort one of ad hominem, which means you essentially negated anything you have to say on the matter. Also, I was not "trying" anything. I have nothing to prove because I don't really care which way your country goes in BREXIT. I have enough in my country to worry about, LOL.
I just state my belief that over the very long run, BREXIT will be at least marginally good as long as your country does not become Corbyn's wet dream.
This is a message board, not the voting booth. Opinions are opinions and thats the whole point of this board. I have mine. You have yours. I am fine if your opinion is different. And if you don't like mine, that's fine with me too. If it upsets you and you need to make misleading statements about it and make sly ad hominem to feel better about yours, well, that's your emotional issue, not mine. Next.
You used the words "I think" at the start, and "I believe" at the end, I can't see the word "opinion". It's rather disingenuous to suggest that the tract inbetween is covered by those bookends.
"Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Stupid proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not." is presented as if it were fact.
"Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth" Again presented as a fact. Okay if you are one of the haves, as always.
"Being part of some "union" would not help them at all." No "I think" or "my opinion is" there...
"The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom." - Made up, pure and simple, the EU is protecting the interests of the people who are staying as members, they have not forced Britain to leave, and don't wish Britain to leave. The UK is leaving the EU. It's quite straightforward.
"Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false." Lie - currency did plummet.
"...extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm." - Laughable if you think the UK Labour party are extreme socialists, you need to get out of your Anglophile bubble.
I called you Nigel as a light hearted dig at your "I say it so it's true" attitude - very much how Farage operates.
Only one person being misleading in this discussion.
I think heavy bureaucracy and Britain's high taxation of almost everything under the sun scares a lot more countries from investing in Britain than BREXIT does.
Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Stupid proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not.
Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth, possibly. Being part of some "union" would not help them at all. The economy is great in Singapore because of their economic principles, not because they are part of some greater political or economic whole. To think Britain needs to be part of the EU to succeed seems like a serious case of lack of confidence on behalf of its people, given its history, economy and social influence.
The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom.
Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false. Who is to say those who got those predictions wrong will suddenly be right about the long-term predictions? Even if there is an adjustment period upon leaving, any significant drops would just lead to bargains to be had and money would eventually come back in, assuming Britain does not cut its own throat with regulations, excess taxes and extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm.
Plus, given the direction governments are going in other EU countries like Hungary and Poland and the rise of the far-right in several other countries, getting out now might save a lot of grief.... later. A nice, stable island economy sounds pretty good if the EU starts fraying at the seams down the line. There is an assumption that the EU is going to live happily ever after in the anti-BREXIT argument. Ain't necessarily so.
I believe, as I do about most countries, your future is in your hands, and will rise or fall on how your country is run, not the phantom safety of the collective.
Lot of utter bollocks there that you have made up, presented as fact.
Nice try...
LOL, I made it clear it was "opinion" and "belief" and said so more than once, so your comment on that point is simply made-up. Also, by calling me "Nigel" you essentially made your retort one of ad hominem, which means you essentially negated anything you have to say on the matter. Also, I was not "trying" anything. I have nothing to prove because I don't really care which way your country goes in BREXIT. I have enough in my country to worry about, LOL.
I just state my belief that over the very long run, BREXIT will be at least marginally good as long as your country does not become Corbyn's wet dream.
This is a message board, not the voting booth. Opinions are opinions and thats the whole point of this board. I have mine. You have yours. I am fine if your opinion is different. And if you don't like mine, that's fine with me too. If it upsets you and you need to make misleading statements about it and make sly ad hominem to feel better about yours, well, that's your emotional issue, not mine. Next.
You used the words "I think" at the start, and "I believe" at the end, I can't see the word "opinion". It's rather disingenuous to suggest that the tract inbetween is covered by those bookends.
"Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Stupid proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not." is presented as if it were fact.
"Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth" Again presented as a fact. Okay if you are one of the haves, as always.
"Being part of some "union" would not help them at all." No "I think" or "my opinion is" there...
"The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom." - Made up, pure and simple, the EU is protecting the interests of the people who are staying as members, they have not forced Britain to leave, and don't wish Britain to leave. The UK is leaving the EU. It's quite straightforward.
"Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false." Lie - currency did plummet.
"...extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm." - Laughable if you think the UK Labour party are extreme socialists, you need to get out of your Anglophile bubble.
I called you Nigel as a light hearted dig at your "I say it so it's true" attitude - very much how Farage operates.
Only one person being misleading in this discussion.
To be honest anything on our political left is "extreme" to an American, mainly because their politics are so much further to the right as a whole.
I think heavy bureaucracy and Britain's high taxation of almost everything under the sun scares a lot more countries from investing in Britain than BREXIT does.
Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Stupid proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not.
Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth, possibly. Being part of some "union" would not help them at all. The economy is great in Singapore because of their economic principles, not because they are part of some greater political or economic whole. To think Britain needs to be part of the EU to succeed seems like a serious case of lack of confidence on behalf of its people, given its history, economy and social influence.
The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom.
Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false. Who is to say those who got those predictions wrong will suddenly be right about the long-term predictions? Even if there is an adjustment period upon leaving, any significant drops would just lead to bargains to be had and money would eventually come back in, assuming Britain does not cut its own throat with regulations, excess taxes and extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm.
Plus, given the direction governments are going in other EU countries like Hungary and Poland and the rise of the far-right in several other countries, getting out now might save a lot of grief.... later. A nice, stable island economy sounds pretty good if the EU starts fraying at the seams down the line. There is an assumption that the EU is going to live happily ever after in the anti-BREXIT argument. Ain't necessarily so.
I believe, as I do about most countries, your future is in your hands, and will rise or fall on how your country is run, not the phantom safety of the collective.
Lot of utter bollocks there that you have made up, presented as fact.
Nice try...
LOL, I made it clear it was "opinion" and "belief" and said so more than once, so your comment on that point is simply made-up. Also, by calling me "Nigel" you essentially made your retort one of ad hominem, which means you essentially negated anything you have to say on the matter. Also, I was not "trying" anything. I have nothing to prove because I don't really care which way your country goes in BREXIT. I have enough in my country to worry about, LOL.
I just state my belief that over the very long run, BREXIT will be at least marginally good as long as your country does not become Corbyn's wet dream.
This is a message board, not the voting booth. Opinions are opinions and thats the whole point of this board. I have mine. You have yours. I am fine if your opinion is different. And if you don't like mine, that's fine with me too. If it upsets you and you need to make misleading statements about it and make sly ad hominem to feel better about yours, well, that's your emotional issue, not mine. Next.
You used the words "I think" at the start, and "I believe" at the end, I can't see the word "opinion". It's rather disingenuous to suggest that the tract inbetween is covered by those bookends.
"Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Stupid proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not." is presented as if it were fact.
"Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth" Again presented as a fact. Okay if you are one of the haves, as always.
"Being part of some "union" would not help them at all." No "I think" or "my opinion is" there...
"The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom." - Made up, pure and simple, the EU is protecting the interests of the people who are staying as members, they have not forced Britain to leave, and don't wish Britain to leave. The UK is leaving the EU. It's quite straightforward.
"Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false." Lie - currency did plummet.
"...extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm." - Laughable if you think the UK Labour party are extreme socialists, you need to get out of your Anglophile bubble.
I called you Nigel as a light hearted dig at your "I say it so it's true" attitude - very much how Farage operates.
Only one person being misleading in this discussion.
To be honest anything on our political left is "extreme" to an American, mainly because their politics are so much further to the right as a whole.
Yes true. Most other countries see it as fairly centre left though.
17 million people voted to leave the EU and 26 million people voted for the Tories and Labour last year, both of which parties had manifestos saying we would not be in the Customs Union.
And STILL there are people trying to keep us in both and playing fast and loose with our democracy. There are few enough democratic countries in the world without us becoming one where the popular vote means nothing.
There's nothing undemocratic about seeking to overturn a decision by the electorate and campaigning to that effect. In fact, that sort of campaigning is democracy in action.
The fact that people are actively campaigning, including for a popular vote on the Brexit deal, clearly demonstrates that the popular vote does not mean nothing (there may well, however, be a value to considering any popular vote, whether referendum or General Election, as being equivalent to an MOT, it merely identifies the popular will at the time of the vote, like the roadworthiness of a car, this can change almost immediately, depending on other circumstances).
I would be far more worried about the Government approach to Parliamentary scrutiny, in terms of whether Brexit campaigns have unleashed anti-democratic impulses.
17 million people voted to leave the EU and 26 million people voted for the Tories and Labour last year, both of which parties had manifestos saying we would not be in the Customs Union.
And STILL there are people trying to keep us in both and playing fast and loose with our democracy. There are few enough democratic countries in the world without us becoming one where the popular vote means nothing.
I understand it to be without a customs union there would be a 'hard' border in Ireland. How does that tally with the Belfast Agreement?
17 million people voted to leave the EU and 26 million people voted for the Tories and Labour last year, both of which parties had manifestos saying we would not be in the Customs Union.
And STILL there are people trying to keep us in both and playing fast and loose with our democracy. There are few enough democratic countries in the world without us becoming one where the popular vote means nothing.
16.1m people voted to remain in the EU. Of those that didn't some - maybe a great number - were convinced that we would not need to leave the Customs Union if we were to leave the EU. One could argue that the result of the referendum was that a majority of people wanted to stay in the Customs Union.
The Conservatives fought the election on a manifesto stating they intended to leave the Customs Union and lost their majority in the House. The Labour Party fought the election on a manifesto on staying in the Customs Union and lost; they therefore took note of the result and changed their position.
And STILL people are playing fast and loose with our democracy, pointing to the election-before-last and claiming that it's a mandate for something that wasn't on the ballot paper.
Northern Ireland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU, and therefore the Customs Union. Every constituency in Northern Ireland that is bounded by the UK/Ireland border voted in favour of remaining in the EU and therefore the Customs Union.
Question: how can we leave the Customs Union, when there is a border which cannot operate outside the Customs Union?
The problem with referendums, is because they are so vague, especially binary ones, that any shyster can then attach anything to the result, or co opt the opposition to a position to get their way. So now instead of no risk to Single Market, we're now told that the Remain campaign said it would be out, so we must be out(once project fear), no risk to Customs union membership, but remain said so, so we're out. no EEA because we can't be arsed to read what it's actually entails, because a remainer said rule taker.
Referendums, are shit and put in place by c**ts, and David Cameron is certainly one of those.
@NapaAddick another thought on your post. You don't be believe in "collectives" of States, as you wrote. However you are a citizen of the United States of America. One of them, Delaware, operates a tax haven. I had to investigate some dodgy Czech advertising agency siphoning money from the State whose seat was in Delaware. Perhaps you could encourage a Delexit?
Have a look at this thread. It pulls Home Office incompetence, Quitters' insistence that there are technological solutions to everything and the bleak, embarrassing prospect of becoming Euope's laughing stock into one thread.
Brexit voters: again, this is your fault. How do you propose to fix the debacle of EU settled status individuals not being afforded a means of demonstrating who they are and why they're allowed to be here? (Bonus point if you can fix the same problem for UK citizens hoping they can stay in the EU).
"ETIAS will allow for advance checks and, if necessary, deny travel authorisation to visa-exempt third-country nationals travelling to the Schengen area. It will help improve internal security, prevent illegal immigration, protect public health and reduce delays at the borders by identifying persons who may pose a risk in one of these areas before they arrive at the external borders."
"ETIAS will allow for advance checks and, if necessary, deny travel authorisation to visa-exempt third-country nationals travelling to the Schengen area. It will help improve internal security, prevent illegal immigration, protect public health and reduce delays at the borders by identifying persons who may pose a risk in one of these areas before they arrive at the external borders."
Have a look at this thread. It pulls Home Office incompetence, Quitters' insistence that there are technological solutions to everything and the bleak, embarrassing prospect of becoming Euope's laughing stock into one thread.
Brexit voters: again, this is your fault. How do you propose to fix the debacle of EU settled status individuals not being afforded a means of demonstrating who they are and why they're allowed to be here? (Bonus point of you can fix the same problem for UK citizens holo g they can stay in the EU).
So I know something about this, and I know the team behind it, and they've been begging Apple to open up the NFC chip on the iPhone, and Apple are saying no, and pretty hard about it too.
Have a look at this thread. It pulls Home Office incompetence, Quitters' insistence that there are technological solutions to everything and the bleak, embarrassing prospect of becoming Euope's laughing stock into one thread.
Brexit voters: again, this is your fault. How do you propose to fix the debacle of EU settled status individuals not being afforded a means of demonstrating who they are and why they're allowed to be here? (Bonus point of you can fix the same problem for UK citizens holo g they can stay in the EU).
So I know something about this, and I know the team behind it, and they've been begging Apple to open up the NFC chip on the iPhone, and Apple are saying no, and pretty hard about it too.
Have a look at this thread. It pulls Home Office incompetence, Quitters' insistence that there are technological solutions to everything and the bleak, embarrassing prospect of becoming Euope's laughing stock into one thread.
Brexit voters: again, this is your fault. How do you propose to fix the debacle of EU settled status individuals not being afforded a means of demonstrating who they are and why they're allowed to be here? (Bonus point of you can fix the same problem for UK citizens holo g they can stay in the EU).
So I know something about this, and I know the team behind it, and they've been begging Apple to open up the NFC chip on the iPhone, and Apple are saying no, and pretty hard about it too.
But they're cracking on with it anyway?
Yep, ministers have been told, but they want to be able to announce things that are happening.
Have a look at this thread. It pulls Home Office incompetence, Quitters' insistence that there are technological solutions to everything and the bleak, embarrassing prospect of becoming Euope's laughing stock into one thread.
Brexit voters: again, this is your fault. How do you propose to fix the debacle of EU settled status individuals not being afforded a means of demonstrating who they are and why they're allowed to be here? (Bonus point of you can fix the same problem for UK citizens holo g they can stay in the EU).
So I know something about this, and I know the team behind it, and they've been begging Apple to open up the NFC chip on the iPhone, and Apple are saying no, and pretty hard about it too.
But they're cracking on with it anyway?
Yep, ministers have been told, but they want to be able to announce things that are happening.
It’s a shit show, everyone knows it
Ministers have been told a solution that won't work is being built? And they're still going ahead with it? Brexit truly is the omnishambles that keeps giving!
Have a look at this thread. It pulls Home Office incompetence, Quitters' insistence that there are technological solutions to everything and the bleak, embarrassing prospect of becoming Euope's laughing stock into one thread.
Brexit voters: again, this is your fault. How do you propose to fix the debacle of EU settled status individuals not being afforded a means of demonstrating who they are and why they're allowed to be here? (Bonus point of you can fix the same problem for UK citizens holo g they can stay in the EU).
So I know something about this, and I know the team behind it, and they've been begging Apple to open up the NFC chip on the iPhone, and Apple are saying no, and pretty hard about it too.
But they're cracking on with it anyway?
Yep, ministers have been told, but they want to be able to announce things that are happening.
It’s a shit show, everyone knows it
Especially when you scroll down and read this particular politician on brexit.
Have a look at this thread. It pulls Home Office incompetence, Quitters' insistence that there are technological solutions to everything and the bleak, embarrassing prospect of becoming Euope's laughing stock into one thread.
Brexit voters: again, this is your fault. How do you propose to fix the debacle of EU settled status individuals not being afforded a means of demonstrating who they are and why they're allowed to be here? (Bonus point of you can fix the same problem for UK citizens holo g they can stay in the EU).
So I know something about this, and I know the team behind it, and they've been begging Apple to open up the NFC chip on the iPhone, and Apple are saying no, and pretty hard about it too.
But they're cracking on with it anyway?
Yep, ministers have been told, but they want to be able to announce things that are happening.
It’s a shit show, everyone knows it
Ministers have been told a solution that won't work is being built? And they're still going ahead with it? Brexit truly is the omnishambles that keeps giving!
Shhhh, Brexit is going perfectly, stop scaremongering #projectFear
Comments
I just state my belief that over the very long run, BREXIT will be at least marginally good as long as your country does not become Corbyn's wet dream.
This is a message board, not the voting booth. Opinions are opinions and thats the whole point of this board. I have mine. You have yours. I am fine if your opinion is different. And if you don't like mine, that's fine with me too. If it upsets you and you need to make misleading statements about it and make sly ad hominem to feel better about yours, well, that's your emotional issue, not mine. Next.
I posted a link to a graph showing the drop in EU trained nurses coming to the UK which could be extrapolated to mean we would have 14,400 fewer nurses in England. I also mentioned that the govt. had taken away student nurse bursaries which wouldn't help.
You responded with a quote from UCAS (no link provided) saying numbers where up, you also added an article digging out Tony Blair's handling of the NHS and then chucked in a 'no criticism of Blair from the usual suspects' type comment.
I then came back to you and asked why you had only put up one fact regarding the trainee nurses and that it shouldn't be looked upon in isolation. I also answered your 'Blair' comment and your 'NHS' comment. I then questioned your stance that you are neutral. Later I gave you four additional facts that you might want to consider.
You responded that I was biased, even though I acknowledged your one fact, said I had no time for Blair (I only voted for him once but believe that he was 100 times better than this current shower of shit we have in govt.) and gave my brief opinion of the NHS and invited you to look at my previous posts on the subject. You have not acknowledged or responded to any of my points but kept just trotting out your line. It reminds me quite a lot of Trump or Chippy.
I suppose I expected better of you but will consign you to the 'joke posters' section in my head that I tend to ignore.
Edit: I ignore the 'joke posters'. Unfortunately I listen to my head!
More generally...
neweconomics.org/2017/01/4-reasons-tax-haven-brexit-bad-news-britain/
Is it true that 20 million Americans have no healthcare, that a caesarian section costs $30,000, and even if insured prebirth check ups can reach $1600 excess charge, and a new dad gets charged $60 to hold his new born baby?
Money.
Not many of them say much about the sovereignty and democracy stuff in comparison to stuff about finance.
And STILL there are people trying to keep us in both and playing fast and loose with our democracy. There are few enough democratic countries in the world without us becoming one where the popular vote means nothing.
Is the "rest of the world" not investing in Germany? I ask because CIT, personal income tax and employer social charges are all higher there than in the UK.
Germany is also leading the way in clamping down on social media companies' failure to control their output, and on Uber's failure to comply with relevant laws designed to ensure citizens' safety.
When it comes to taxing social media companies, you misrepresent the key issue. These companies are taking the piss on corporate tax, as we have discussed endlessly on several threads. As a result they confer on themselves an unfair advantage over their rivals who pay those taxes according to national laws. As a US businessmen, I am sure you believe in fair competition.
When it comes to dealing with the tax avoidance of those bloated shysters Google, Facebook, Amazon, and Uber, all of them neighbours of yourself the West Coast of the USA, funny enough, it will be the EU that will lead the way in finding a credible solution that brings them to heel; that's because the tax issue has become trans-national and only a powerful group of countries has the clout to enforce change. By leaving the EU, the UK gives up the chance to join in this collective effort, and thus to succeed in taxing them effectively.
"Most investors outside Britain would rather invest in a non-EU Britain with May at the top than a Britain led by Corbyn within the EU, and rightly so. Stupid proposals like wanting to tax unoccupied mansions extra or tax social media companies to combat "extremism" (see link below,) send a signal that no profits are safe in Britain. And when that signal is sent, investors wisely look elsewhere, no matter whether you are in a union or not." is presented as if it were fact.
"Singapore is not within anything like the EU, is a tiny island, surrounded by economic giants, was a backwater until half a century ago, and they are the best run economy on Earth" Again presented as a fact. Okay if you are one of the haves, as always.
http://statestimesreview.com/2017/04/22/ministry-poverty-in-singapore-reached-worst-ever-jumped-43-45-in-3-years/
"Being part of some "union" would not help them at all." No "I think" or "my opinion is" there...
"The fact the rest of the EU wants to make it so hard for Britain to leave tells you who is more worried about who is leaving whom." - Made up, pure and simple, the EU is protecting the interests of the people who are staying as members, they have not forced Britain to leave, and don't wish Britain to leave. The UK is leaving the EU. It's quite straightforward.
"Already most of the immediate post-BREXIT predictions of plummeting stocks and plummeting currency and companies fleeing en masse have proven to be false." Lie - currency did plummet.
"...extreme socialist-anti-semites at the helm." - Laughable if you think the UK Labour party are extreme socialists, you need to get out of your Anglophile bubble.
I called you Nigel as a light hearted dig at your "I say it so it's true" attitude - very much how Farage operates.
Only one person being misleading in this discussion.
The fact that people are actively campaigning, including for a popular vote on the Brexit deal, clearly demonstrates that the popular vote does not mean nothing (there may well, however, be a value to considering any popular vote, whether referendum or General Election, as being equivalent to an MOT, it merely identifies the popular will at the time of the vote, like the roadworthiness of a car, this can change almost immediately, depending on other circumstances).
I would be far more worried about the Government approach to Parliamentary scrutiny, in terms of whether Brexit campaigns have unleashed anti-democratic impulses.
The Conservatives fought the election on a manifesto stating they intended to leave the Customs Union and lost their majority in the House. The Labour Party fought the election on a manifesto on staying in the Customs Union and lost; they therefore took note of the result and changed their position.
And STILL people are playing fast and loose with our democracy, pointing to the election-before-last and claiming that it's a mandate for something that wasn't on the ballot paper.
Northern Ireland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU, and therefore the Customs Union. Every constituency in Northern Ireland that is bounded by the UK/Ireland border voted in favour of remaining in the EU and therefore the Customs Union.
Question: how can we leave the Customs Union, when there is a border which cannot operate outside the Customs Union?
Referendums, are shit and put in place by c**ts, and David Cameron is certainly one of those.
Brexit voters: again, this is your fault. How do you propose to fix the debacle of EU settled status individuals not being afforded a means of demonstrating who they are and why they're allowed to be here? (Bonus point if you can fix the same problem for UK citizens hoping they can stay in the EU).
"ETIAS will allow for advance checks and, if necessary, deny travel authorisation to visa-exempt third-country nationals travelling to the Schengen area. It will help improve internal security, prevent illegal immigration, protect public health and reduce delays at the borders by identifying persons who may pose a risk in one of these areas before they arrive at the external borders."
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2018/04/25/european-travel-information-and-authorisation-system-etias-council-confirms-agreement-with-european-parliament/
Great.
It’s a shit show, everyone knows it
https://evolvepolitics.com/10-times-lord-buckethead-made-sense-theresa-may/