Obviously irony isn't your thing but the answer to your question is pretty simple. I married a Czech citizen in 1997. This gave me as a foreigner a lot of rights. Admittedly i had already set up my business by then, but it is one step up from self employment, i.e minimal capital investment. The fact is that had I not been from the gilded "West" but instead from, say, Turkey, I would have found all kinds of bureaucratic obstacles placed in my way at the time. When it came to buying property, I made sure that EU accession was all but done, before I went for it.
More importantly the country opened the accession process very quickly. Many would have much rather completed that first before joining up to NATO, but that's a side issue. The accession process affected every aspect of Czech life, and largely in a positive way. It enabled progressive politicians to carry the fight to those who wished to continue in the old ways of corruption, cronyism and excessive bureaucracy. The fight still isn't over, and we are now seeing a pushback because inevitably not everyone has felt the benefits (or more correctly they believe a lot of other people mainly in Prague, a "liberal metro elite" of course, have benefited more than they have). But it was because the fight was obviously being won, and the Czechs never really faltered on the way to accession, that the big British businesses- Tesco, Debenhams, Next and M&S - invested. M&S is an interesting case because it was initially an affiliate arrangement, only coming into full ownership several years after accession. I am worried that Brexit might put an end to their presence, certainly they seem to have put on hold their expansion plans.
In 2019, by the way, I shall have a Czech passport, while retaining the British one. I still have my dark dark blue one, as a travel souvenir. I never cared about the colour. I was rather more "inspired" by the text on the inside front cover - which is still in the current one. You know, "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires..." etc. Of course years of seeing British citizens left in the lurch around the world made me realise that it's all a load of bollocks, whatever colour the cover is.
Obviously irony isn't your thing but the answer to your question is pretty simple. I married a Czech citizen in 1997. This gave me as a foreigner a lot of rights. Admittedly i had already set up my business by then, but it is one step up from self employment, i.e minimal capital investment. The fact is that had I not been from the gilded "West" but instead from, say, Turkey, I would have found all kinds of bureaucratic obstacles placed in my way at the time. When it came to buying property, I made sure that EU accession was all but done, before I went for it.
More importantly the country opened the accession process very quickly. Many would have much rather completed that first before joining up to NATO, but that's a side issue. The accession process affected every aspect of Czech life, and largely in a positive way. It enabled progressive politicians to carry the fight to those who wished to continue in the old ways of corruption, cronyism and excessive bureaucracy. The fight still isn't over, and we are now seeing a pushback because inevitably not everyone has felt the benefits (or more correctly they believe a lot of other people mainly in Prague, a "liberal metro elite" of course, have benefited more than they have). But it was because the fight was obviously being won, and the Czechs never really faltered on the way to accession, that the big British businesses- Tesco, Debenhams, Next and M&S - invested. M&S is an interesting case because it was initially an affiliate arrangement, only coming into full ownership several years after accession. I am worried that Brexit might put an end to their presence, certainly they seem to have put on hold their expansion plans.
In 2019, by the way, I shall have a Czech passport, while retaining the British one. I still have my dark dark blue one, as a travel souvenir. I never cared about the colour. I was rather more "inspired" by the text on the inside front cover - which is still in the current one. You know, "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires..." etc. Of course years of seeing British citizens left in the lurch around the world made me realise that it's all a load of bollocks, whatever colour the cover is.
Why if your so committed to the paradise land of the EU would you want to have one foot in a land full of dimwit, thick, racist nazis.
Obviously irony isn't your thing but the answer to your question is pretty simple. I married a Czech citizen in 1997. This gave me as a foreigner a lot of rights. Admittedly i had already set up my business by then, but it is one step up from self employment, i.e minimal capital investment. The fact is that had I not been from the gilded "West" but instead from, say, Turkey, I would have found all kinds of bureaucratic obstacles placed in my way at the time. When it came to buying property, I made sure that EU accession was all but done, before I went for it.
More importantly the country opened the accession process very quickly. Many would have much rather completed that first before joining up to NATO, but that's a side issue. The accession process affected every aspect of Czech life, and largely in a positive way. It enabled progressive politicians to carry the fight to those who wished to continue in the old ways of corruption, cronyism and excessive bureaucracy. The fight still isn't over, and we are now seeing a pushback because inevitably not everyone has felt the benefits (or more correctly they believe a lot of other people mainly in Prague, a "liberal metro elite" of course, have benefited more than they have). But it was because the fight was obviously being won, and the Czechs never really faltered on the way to accession, that the big British businesses- Tesco, Debenhams, Next and M&S - invested. M&S is an interesting case because it was initially an affiliate arrangement, only coming into full ownership several years after accession. I am worried that Brexit might put an end to their presence, certainly they seem to have put on hold their expansion plans.
In 2019, by the way, I shall have a Czech passport, while retaining the British one. I still have my dark dark blue one, as a travel souvenir. I never cared about the colour. I was rather more "inspired" by the text on the inside front cover - which is still in the current one. You know, "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires..." etc. Of course years of seeing British citizens left in the lurch around the world made me realise that it's all a load of bollocks, whatever colour the cover is.
Why if your so committed to the paradise land of the EU would you want to have one foot in a land full of dimwit, thick, racist nazis.
Chipster, I nearly took the bait and made a cheap joke but it’s not my augment. As it’s Christmas, we should really try a little harder to be nice.
Obviously irony isn't your thing but the answer to your question is pretty simple. I married a Czech citizen in 1997. This gave me as a foreigner a lot of rights. Admittedly i had already set up my business by then, but it is one step up from self employment, i.e minimal capital investment. The fact is that had I not been from the gilded "West" but instead from, say, Turkey, I would have found all kinds of bureaucratic obstacles placed in my way at the time. When it came to buying property, I made sure that EU accession was all but done, before I went for it.
More importantly the country opened the accession process very quickly. Many would have much rather completed that first before joining up to NATO, but that's a side issue. The accession process affected every aspect of Czech life, and largely in a positive way. It enabled progressive politicians to carry the fight to those who wished to continue in the old ways of corruption, cronyism and excessive bureaucracy. The fight still isn't over, and we are now seeing a pushback because inevitably not everyone has felt the benefits (or more correctly they believe a lot of other people mainly in Prague, a "liberal metro elite" of course, have benefited more than they have). But it was because the fight was obviously being won, and the Czechs never really faltered on the way to accession, that the big British businesses- Tesco, Debenhams, Next and M&S - invested. M&S is an interesting case because it was initially an affiliate arrangement, only coming into full ownership several years after accession. I am worried that Brexit might put an end to their presence, certainly they seem to have put on hold their expansion plans.
In 2019, by the way, I shall have a Czech passport, while retaining the British one. I still have my dark dark blue one, as a travel souvenir. I never cared about the colour. I was rather more "inspired" by the text on the inside front cover - which is still in the current one. You know, "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires..." etc. Of course years of seeing British citizens left in the lurch around the world made me realise that it's all a load of bollocks, whatever colour the cover is.
Why if your so committed to the paradise land of the EU would you want to have one foot in a land full of dimwit, thick, racist nazis.
I nearly took the bait and made a cheap joke but it’s not my augment. As it’s Christmas, we should really try a little harder to be nice.
Obviously irony isn't your thing but the answer to your question is pretty simple. I married a Czech citizen in 1997. This gave me as a foreigner a lot of rights. Admittedly i had already set up my business by then, but it is one step up from self employment, i.e minimal capital investment. The fact is that had I not been from the gilded "West" but instead from, say, Turkey, I would have found all kinds of bureaucratic obstacles placed in my way at the time. When it came to buying property, I made sure that EU accession was all but done, before I went for it.
More importantly the country opened the accession process very quickly. Many would have much rather completed that first before joining up to NATO, but that's a side issue. The accession process affected every aspect of Czech life, and largely in a positive way. It enabled progressive politicians to carry the fight to those who wished to continue in the old ways of corruption, cronyism and excessive bureaucracy. The fight still isn't over, and we are now seeing a pushback because inevitably not everyone has felt the benefits (or more correctly they believe a lot of other people mainly in Prague, a "liberal metro elite" of course, have benefited more than they have). But it was because the fight was obviously being won, and the Czechs never really faltered on the way to accession, that the big British businesses- Tesco, Debenhams, Next and M&S - invested. M&S is an interesting case because it was initially an affiliate arrangement, only coming into full ownership several years after accession. I am worried that Brexit might put an end to their presence, certainly they seem to have put on hold their expansion plans.
In 2019, by the way, I shall have a Czech passport, while retaining the British one. I still have my dark dark blue one, as a travel souvenir. I never cared about the colour. I was rather more "inspired" by the text on the inside front cover - which is still in the current one. You know, "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires..." etc. Of course years of seeing British citizens left in the lurch around the world made me realise that it's all a load of bollocks, whatever colour the cover is.
Why if your so committed to the paradise land of the EU would you want to have one foot in a land full of dimwit, thick, racist nazis.
Chipster, I nearly took the bait and made a cheap joke but it’s not my augment. As it’s Christmas, we should really try a little harder to be nice.
Please do 'chipster' is now trademarked to you.
It’s a pleasure Chipster, altered the original just for you.
Obviously irony isn't your thing but the answer to your question is pretty simple. I married a Czech citizen in 1997. This gave me as a foreigner a lot of rights. Admittedly i had already set up my business by then, but it is one step up from self employment, i.e minimal capital investment. The fact is that had I not been from the gilded "West" but instead from, say, Turkey, I would have found all kinds of bureaucratic obstacles placed in my way at the time. When it came to buying property, I made sure that EU accession was all but done, before I went for it.
More importantly the country opened the accession process very quickly. Many would have much rather completed that first before joining up to NATO, but that's a side issue. The accession process affected every aspect of Czech life, and largely in a positive way. It enabled progressive politicians to carry the fight to those who wished to continue in the old ways of corruption, cronyism and excessive bureaucracy. The fight still isn't over, and we are now seeing a pushback because inevitably not everyone has felt the benefits (or more correctly they believe a lot of other people mainly in Prague, a "liberal metro elite" of course, have benefited more than they have). But it was because the fight was obviously being won, and the Czechs never really faltered on the way to accession, that the big British businesses- Tesco, Debenhams, Next and M&S - invested. M&S is an interesting case because it was initially an affiliate arrangement, only coming into full ownership several years after accession. I am worried that Brexit might put an end to their presence, certainly they seem to have put on hold their expansion plans.
In 2019, by the way, I shall have a Czech passport, while retaining the British one. I still have my dark dark blue one, as a travel souvenir. I never cared about the colour. I was rather more "inspired" by the text on the inside front cover - which is still in the current one. You know, "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires..." etc. Of course years of seeing British citizens left in the lurch around the world made me realise that it's all a load of bollocks, whatever colour the cover is.
Why if your so committed to the paradise land of the EU would you want to have one foot in a land full of dimwit, thick, racist nazis.
Well, son, I guess that one benefit of getting older is you learn to take the long view.
Giving up my UK citizenship wont look so smart when the nightmare is over and Charlton head back to the sunlit uplands ( copyright, your new leader) only for me to have my visitor visa refused by the Rees-Mug govt on the grounds that my past postings on CL made me a danger to national security.
Or, more likely, I would feel pretty silly if I gave it up only for the 2nd referendum to be called as the polls show a consistent 60-40 Remain score.
So, it was easy to settle outside the EU. Thansk for clearing that up. So post Brexit will probably be the same.
You think Brits amassing in Spain is bad because it clogs up their health system.
No need to understand irony there.
You do realize why vast numbers of traditional (i.e. Not liberal elite champagne socialists - not a dig at you as you are a committed Liberal Democrat, obviously) Labour voters north of Watford voted leave? You know, clogged up health and education services etc?
So, it was easy to settle outside the EU. Thansk for clearing that up. So post Brexit will probably be the same.
You think Brits amassing in Spain is bad because it clogs up their health system.
No need to understand irony there.
You do realize why vast numbers of traditional (i.e. Not liberal elite champagne socialists - not a dig at you as you are a committed Liberal Democrat, obviously) Labour voters north of Watford voted leave? You know, clogged up health and education services etc?
Beyond parody, if you understand the irony. ;-)
OK, I'll try again, since I think at least in part you are genuinely interested. (Maybe I am naive and you are just trolling, but my wife says i always try to look for the best in people)
The post communist countries in the early 90s were a chaotic window in history, which I was privileged to experience. Westerners could get away with all kinds of shit, and unfortunately they often did. That is no longer true. There is an unemployment rate of 2.9% here now, everyone is screaming for people, and yet there is a furious debate in Parliament about whether it would be a good idea to issue maybe 10,000 working visas to Ukrainians to keep factories rolling. That's how easy it is for non EU citizens to settle in the Czech Republic now.
It's not me who has a problem with the Brits amassing on the Costa Brava. It's the Spanish themselves. According to several news articles on the subject, before which I had never given it a thought. I expect you will question the veracity of such reports, this being the temper of the times.
Do you have available stats on the relative use of the NHS by immigrants from EU states compared to immigrants from other countries, and from the indigenous population? I don't but I would be interested in such figures, because it is established that EU immigrants are usually young, and thus generally fitter and healthier than their British counterparts on the Costas. And of course a lot of them are working in the very health service that is under strain.
What exactly is your research source for understanding the motivations of the "Labour voters north of Watford"? Again, I am interested in such things, if they really exist and are properly conducted. I just have a feeling that this is more your personal take, which makes it no more and no less valid than mine, without a solid research backing. Funny enough, a decent size YouGov poll on Labour voters' attitudes to brexit by YouGov was published just this week. I'll leave you to feverishly work out how to fit it to your narrative.
So, it was easy to settle outside the EU. Thansk for clearing that up. So post Brexit will probably be the same.
You think Brits amassing in Spain is bad because it clogs up their health system.
No need to understand irony there.
You do realize why vast numbers of traditional (i.e. Not liberal elite champagne socialists - not a dig at you as you are a committed Liberal Democrat, obviously) Labour voters north of Watford voted leave? You know, clogged up health and education services etc?
Beyond parody, if you understand the irony. ;-)
Not that I want to get in the way of you making a bit of a fool of yourself but you have taken a statement and tacked some opinion on the end of it and tried to pass it off as fact.
The Brits in Spain tend to have an older demographic, tend to not pay taxes or health insurance (because they are retired) and tend to live in the same areas, putting pressure on those areas. The EU migrants in the UK tend to be a much younger and healthier demographic and are far more likely to be working and paying taxes. I had also assumed that the majority of EU migrants moved to the greater South East as that is where most of the jobs are.
This suggests it was more to do with regional discrepancies and a feeling of being left behind than of a clogging up of services. I would add that since the Thatcher government destroyed our manufacturing base in the north there has been no regional policies to speak of and that is the route cause of most of our problems (including over population & expensive housing in the south east and lack of investment & draining of talent in the north).
I would tend to believe anything that the Joseph Rowntree Foundation published as they do excellent research and are neutral. But if it helps all the traditional working class members of my family who vote Labour, voted to remain (although it was a close call for many of us).
U.K. Has been taking this amount of migrants PER YEAR for parts of the last decade. We are currently running at 110,000 net per annum (that's one every 5 minutes as I like to remind everyone).
How old uk expats are in Spain and what demand they put on their services etc is surely irrelevant given the comparative numbers?
Over 10% of Spain's population was born abroad but interestingly there doesn't seem to be an obsession about it or any attempt to blame the country's problems on immigration.
Over 10% of Spain's population was born abroad but interestingly there doesn't seem to be an obsession about it or any attempt to blame the country's problems on immigration.
Perhaps 40 years of a repressive right wing dictator aka Franco has inhibited support and acceptance for the alt-right narrative including the villification of immigrants?
Franco does not really feature in the mindset of anyone under 40 here. I honestly think people are too busy getting on with their lives to get obsessed about immigration. The other main factor is there is no equivalent of The Mail or The Sun to tell people how to think.
Franco does not really feature in the mindset of anyone under 40 here. I honestly think people are too busy getting on with their lives to get obsessed about immigration. The other main factor is there is no equivalent of The Mail or The Sun to tell people how to think.
I'm sure there are many factors which shape the political economy of western democracies and some articles will have captured the essence of how Spain has evolved - including the nationalist movement in Catalonia which is somewhat unique. This piece reads well but you would be better placed to comment as to whether it is accurate or not.
You make a point about tabloids, but in this century it is the development of web news and campaigns which matter - the five star movement has taken a significant poll lead in Italy. They are very much web based but it isn't entirely clear what they stand for.
And finally, I don't think the UK electorate have always been "obsessed" about immigration. This article shows that not so long ago it was an important issue for just 10% of the population. The question is how did we get from there to here!
Franco does not really feature in the mindset of anyone under 40 here. I honestly think people are too busy getting on with their lives to get obsessed about immigration. The other main factor is there is no equivalent of The Mail or The Sun to tell people how to think.
I'm sure there are many factors which shape the political economy of western democracies and some articles will have captured the essence of how Spain has evolved - including the nationalist movement in Catalonia which is somewhat unique. This piece reads well but you would be better placed to comment as to whether it is accurate or not.
You make a point about tabloids, but in this century it is the development of web news and campaigns which matter - the five star movement has taken a significant poll lead in Italy. They are very much web based but it isn't entirely clear what they stand for.
And finally, I don't think the UK electorate have always been "obsessed" about immigration. This article shows that not so long ago it was an important issue for just 10% of the population. The question is how did we get from there to here!
7 years of austerity have lead to services creaking and wages stagnating. The Tory press has needed a scapegoat as the truth "Austerity, doesn't work, has never worked and will never work" isn't what Tory voters want to hear and isn't what the Tories' told to the electorate.
So it isn't failed economic policy, it's those nasty foreigners, taking all the school places, clogging up A&E and freezing your wages. Ignore all those reports saying immigrants bring in more in taxes than they spend in services, it's just not true, they're all scroungers and thieves, living in imaginary 7 bedroom council houses in sought-after London locations.
I would say that here people direct their anger more at corrupt and inept politicians rather than looking to find scapegoats. Plus there is a healthy scepticism towards any media narrative.
Unfortunately as the Catalan election shows there is still quite a lot of identity based politics in some regions, though it is (just about) in the minority.
That article was really good and gives an accurate reflection I would say, especially what it discusses about Moroccan and Roma integration.
U.K. Has been taking this amount of migrants PER YEAR for parts of the last decade. We are currently running at 110,000 net per annum (that's one every 5 minutes as I like to remind everyone).
How old uk expats are in Spain and what demand they put on their services etc is surely irrelevant given the comparative numbers?
You are right on the full time numbers @Valiantphil . The relevance is that I was responding to @Floyd Montana 's post.
Obviously irony isn't your thing but the answer to your question is pretty simple. I married a Czech citizen in 1997. This gave me as a foreigner a lot of rights. Admittedly i had already set up my business by then, but it is one step up from self employment, i.e minimal capital investment. The fact is that had I not been from the gilded "West" but instead from, say, Turkey, I would have found all kinds of bureaucratic obstacles placed in my way at the time. When it came to buying property, I made sure that EU accession was all but done, before I went for it.
More importantly the country opened the accession process very quickly. Many would have much rather completed that first before joining up to NATO, but that's a side issue. The accession process affected every aspect of Czech life, and largely in a positive way. It enabled progressive politicians to carry the fight to those who wished to continue in the old ways of corruption, cronyism and excessive bureaucracy. The fight still isn't over, and we are now seeing a pushback because inevitably not everyone has felt the benefits (or more correctly they believe a lot of other people mainly in Prague, a "liberal metro elite" of course, have benefited more than they have). But it was because the fight was obviously being won, and the Czechs never really faltered on the way to accession, that the big British businesses- Tesco, Debenhams, Next and M&S - invested. M&S is an interesting case because it was initially an affiliate arrangement, only coming into full ownership several years after accession. I am worried that Brexit might put an end to their presence, certainly they seem to have put on hold their expansion plans.
In 2019, by the way, I shall have a Czech passport, while retaining the British one. I still have my dark dark blue one, as a travel souvenir. I never cared about the colour. I was rather more "inspired" by the text on the inside front cover - which is still in the current one. You know, "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires..." etc. Of course years of seeing British citizens left in the lurch around the world made me realise that it's all a load of bollocks, whatever colour the cover is.
Why if your so committed to the paradise land of the EU would you want to have one foot in a land full of dimwit, thick, racist nazis.
Well, son, I guess that one benefit of getting older is you learn to take the long view.
Giving up my UK citizenship wont look so smart when the nightmare is over and Charlton head back to the sunlit uplands ( copyright, your new leader) only for me to have my visitor visa refused by the Rees-Mug govt on the grounds that my past postings on CL made me a danger to national security.
Or, more likely, I would feel pretty silly if I gave it up only for the 2nd referendum to be called as the polls show a consistent 60-40 Remain score.
The long game, Chips, the long game...
In other words..... Just in case it goes belly up in paradise land, and the uk doesn't implode as you predict. You may need to wish to come back. Wear dark glasses when you do.... Me old son.
I would imagine (I have no proof whatsoever) that a major factor in Spanish people not being bothered by immigration is that tourism plays such a major part in the national economy. It's very hard to tell an immigrant from a tourist just by looking at them and the tourists would be (for the most part) welcomed as a source of wealth.
I would imagine (I have no proof whatsoever) that a major factor in Spanish people not being bothered by immigration is that tourism plays such a major part in the national economy. It's very hard to tell an immigrant from a tourist just by looking at them and the tourists would be (for the most part) welcomed as a source of wealth.
Most immigrants here are Romanian, Moroccan and from South America and don't look remotely like tourists.
Obviously irony isn't your thing but the answer to your question is pretty simple. I married a Czech citizen in 1997. This gave me as a foreigner a lot of rights. Admittedly i had already set up my business by then, but it is one step up from self employment, i.e minimal capital investment. The fact is that had I not been from the gilded "West" but instead from, say, Turkey, I would have found all kinds of bureaucratic obstacles placed in my way at the time. When it came to buying property, I made sure that EU accession was all but done, before I went for it.
More importantly the country opened the accession process very quickly. Many would have much rather completed that first before joining up to NATO, but that's a side issue. The accession process affected every aspect of Czech life, and largely in a positive way. It enabled progressive politicians to carry the fight to those who wished to continue in the old ways of corruption, cronyism and excessive bureaucracy. The fight still isn't over, and we are now seeing a pushback because inevitably not everyone has felt the benefits (or more correctly they believe a lot of other people mainly in Prague, a "liberal metro elite" of course, have benefited more than they have). But it was because the fight was obviously being won, and the Czechs never really faltered on the way to accession, that the big British businesses- Tesco, Debenhams, Next and M&S - invested. M&S is an interesting case because it was initially an affiliate arrangement, only coming into full ownership several years after accession. I am worried that Brexit might put an end to their presence, certainly they seem to have put on hold their expansion plans.
In 2019, by the way, I shall have a Czech passport, while retaining the British one. I still have my dark dark blue one, as a travel souvenir. I never cared about the colour. I was rather more "inspired" by the text on the inside front cover - which is still in the current one. You know, "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires..." etc. Of course years of seeing British citizens left in the lurch around the world made me realise that it's all a load of bollocks, whatever colour the cover is.
Why if your so committed to the paradise land of the EU would you want to have one foot in a land full of dimwit, thick, racist nazis.
Well, son, I guess that one benefit of getting older is you learn to take the long view.
Giving up my UK citizenship wont look so smart when the nightmare is over and Charlton head back to the sunlit uplands ( copyright, your new leader) only for me to have my visitor visa refused by the Rees-Mug govt on the grounds that my past postings on CL made me a danger to national security.
Or, more likely, I would feel pretty silly if I gave it up only for the 2nd referendum to be called as the polls show a consistent 60-40 Remain score.
The long game, Chips, the long game...
In other words..... Just in case it goes belly up in paradise land, and the uk doesn't implode as you predict. You may need to wish to come back. Wear dark glasses when you do.... Me old son.
You write as if you think I "left" the U.K. because of Brexit. Well I haven't ever "left." I remain a British citizen, pay UK income tax, have earned the right to a UK State pension, average 5-6 live Charlton games a season. I am happy to remain a British citizen because there are still things about Britain I am proud to associate with. So when I am next over, come and have a good Kentish beer with me in the Long Pond. I will be the one in the blue " Don't blame me, I voted Remain" T-shirt, dark glasses go well with it.
Obviously irony isn't your thing but the answer to your question is pretty simple. I married a Czech citizen in 1997. This gave me as a foreigner a lot of rights. Admittedly i had already set up my business by then, but it is one step up from self employment, i.e minimal capital investment. The fact is that had I not been from the gilded "West" but instead from, say, Turkey, I would have found all kinds of bureaucratic obstacles placed in my way at the time. When it came to buying property, I made sure that EU accession was all but done, before I went for it.
More importantly the country opened the accession process very quickly. Many would have much rather completed that first before joining up to NATO, but that's a side issue. The accession process affected every aspect of Czech life, and largely in a positive way. It enabled progressive politicians to carry the fight to those who wished to continue in the old ways of corruption, cronyism and excessive bureaucracy. The fight still isn't over, and we are now seeing a pushback because inevitably not everyone has felt the benefits (or more correctly they believe a lot of other people mainly in Prague, a "liberal metro elite" of course, have benefited more than they have). But it was because the fight was obviously being won, and the Czechs never really faltered on the way to accession, that the big British businesses- Tesco, Debenhams, Next and M&S - invested. M&S is an interesting case because it was initially an affiliate arrangement, only coming into full ownership several years after accession. I am worried that Brexit might put an end to their presence, certainly they seem to have put on hold their expansion plans.
In 2019, by the way, I shall have a Czech passport, while retaining the British one. I still have my dark dark blue one, as a travel souvenir. I never cared about the colour. I was rather more "inspired" by the text on the inside front cover - which is still in the current one. You know, "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires..." etc. Of course years of seeing British citizens left in the lurch around the world made me realise that it's all a load of bollocks, whatever colour the cover is.
Why if your so committed to the paradise land of the EU would you want to have one foot in a land full of dimwit, thick, racist nazis.
Well, son, I guess that one benefit of getting older is you learn to take the long view.
Giving up my UK citizenship wont look so smart when the nightmare is over and Charlton head back to the sunlit uplands ( copyright, your new leader) only for me to have my visitor visa refused by the Rees-Mug govt on the grounds that my past postings on CL made me a danger to national security.
Or, more likely, I would feel pretty silly if I gave it up only for the 2nd referendum to be called as the polls show a consistent 60-40 Remain score.
The long game, Chips, the long game...
In other words..... Just in case it goes belly up in paradise land, and the uk doesn't implode as you predict. You may need to wish to come back. Wear dark glasses when you do.... Me old son.
You write as if you think I "left" the U.K. because of Brexit. Well I haven't ever "left." I remain a British citizen, pay UK income tax, have earned the right to a UK State pension, average 5-6 live Charlton games a season. I am happy to remain a British citizen because there are still things about Britain I am proud to associate with. So when I am next over, come and have a good Kentish beer with me in the Long Pond. I will be the one in the blue " Don't blame me, I voted Remain" T-shirt, dark glasses go well with it.
I offered you a chance of a beer on the concourse of the east stand...you never took me up on it.
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Obviously irony isn't your thing but the answer to your question is pretty simple. I married a Czech citizen in 1997. This gave me as a foreigner a lot of rights. Admittedly i had already set up my business by then, but it is one step up from self employment, i.e minimal capital investment. The fact is that had I not been from the gilded "West" but instead from, say, Turkey, I would have found all kinds of bureaucratic obstacles placed in my way at the time. When it came to buying property, I made sure that EU accession was all but done, before I went for it.
More importantly the country opened the accession process very quickly. Many would have much rather completed that first before joining up to NATO, but that's a side issue. The accession process affected every aspect of Czech life, and largely in a positive way. It enabled progressive politicians to carry the fight to those who wished to continue in the old ways of corruption, cronyism and excessive bureaucracy. The fight still isn't over, and we are now seeing a pushback because inevitably not everyone has felt the benefits (or more correctly they believe a lot of other people mainly in Prague, a "liberal metro elite" of course, have benefited more than they have). But it was because the fight was obviously being won, and the Czechs never really faltered on the way to accession, that the big British businesses- Tesco, Debenhams, Next and M&S - invested. M&S is an interesting case because it was initially an affiliate arrangement, only coming into full ownership several years after accession. I am worried that Brexit might put an end to their presence, certainly they seem to have put on hold their expansion plans.
In 2019, by the way, I shall have a Czech passport, while retaining the British one. I still have my dark dark blue one, as a travel souvenir. I never cared about the colour. I was rather more "inspired" by the text on the inside front cover - which is still in the current one. You know, "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires..." etc. Of course years of seeing British citizens left in the lurch around the world made me realise that it's all a load of bollocks, whatever colour the cover is.
As it’s Christmas, we should really try a little harder to be nice.
Giving up my UK citizenship wont look so smart when the nightmare is over and Charlton head back to the sunlit uplands ( copyright, your new leader) only for me to have my visitor visa refused by the Rees-Mug govt on the grounds that my past postings on CL made me a danger to national security.
Or, more likely, I would feel pretty silly if I gave it up only for the 2nd referendum to be called as the polls show a consistent 60-40 Remain score.
The long game, Chips, the long game...
So post Brexit will probably be the same.
You think Brits amassing in Spain is bad because it clogs up their health system.
No need to understand irony there.
You do realize why vast numbers of traditional (i.e. Not liberal elite champagne socialists - not a dig at you as you are a committed Liberal Democrat, obviously) Labour voters north of Watford voted leave? You know, clogged up health and education services etc?
Beyond parody, if you understand the irony. ;-)
The post communist countries in the early 90s were a chaotic window in history, which I was privileged to experience. Westerners could get away with all kinds of shit, and unfortunately they often did. That is no longer true. There is an unemployment rate of 2.9% here now, everyone is screaming for people, and yet there is a furious debate in Parliament about whether it would be a good idea to issue maybe 10,000 working visas to Ukrainians to keep factories rolling. That's how easy it is for non EU citizens to settle in the Czech Republic now.
It's not me who has a problem with the Brits amassing on the Costa Brava. It's the Spanish themselves. According to several news articles on the subject, before which I had never given it a thought. I expect you will question the veracity of such reports, this being the temper of the times.
Do you have available stats on the relative use of the NHS by immigrants from EU states compared to immigrants from other countries, and from the indigenous population? I don't but I would be interested in such figures, because it is established that EU immigrants are usually young, and thus generally fitter and healthier than their British counterparts on the Costas. And of course a lot of them are working in the very health service that is under strain.
What exactly is your research source for understanding the motivations of the "Labour voters north of Watford"? Again, I am interested in such things, if they really exist and are properly conducted. I just have a feeling that this is more your personal take, which makes it no more and no less valid than mine, without a solid research backing. Funny enough, a decent size YouGov poll on Labour voters' attitudes to brexit by YouGov was published just this week. I'll leave you to feverishly work out how to fit it to your narrative.
The Brits in Spain tend to have an older demographic, tend to not pay taxes or health insurance (because they are retired) and tend to live in the same areas, putting pressure on those areas. The EU migrants in the UK tend to be a much younger and healthier demographic and are far more likely to be working and paying taxes. I had also assumed that the majority of EU migrants moved to the greater South East as that is where most of the jobs are.
Why traditional Labour voters voted for Brexit is another matter and this might help https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunitiesgclid=EAIaIQobChMI7OKUs_Wu2AIVTrXtCh3Viw9TEAAYAiAAEgIJFPD_BwE
This suggests it was more to do with regional discrepancies and a feeling of being left behind than of a clogging up of services. I would add that since the Thatcher government destroyed our manufacturing base in the north there has been no regional policies to speak of and that is the route cause of most of our problems (including over population & expensive housing in the south east and lack of investment & draining of talent in the north).
I would tend to believe anything that the Joseph Rowntree Foundation published as they do excellent research and are neutral. But if it helps all the traditional working class members of my family who vote Labour, voted to remain (although it was a close call for many of us).
I believe Brits in Spain to be about 300,000.
U.K. Has been taking this amount of migrants PER YEAR for parts of the last decade.
We are currently running at 110,000 net per annum (that's one every 5 minutes as I like to remind everyone).
How old uk expats are in Spain and what demand they put on their services etc is surely irrelevant given the comparative numbers?
Or of course The Guardian, The Daily Mirror, The Independent how NOT TO THINK!
You make a point about tabloids, but in this century it is the development of web news and campaigns which matter - the five star movement has taken a significant poll lead in Italy. They are very much web based but it isn't entirely clear what they stand for.
And finally, I don't think the UK electorate have always been "obsessed" about immigration. This article shows that not so long ago it was an important issue for just 10% of the population. The question is how did we get from there to here!
So it isn't failed economic policy, it's those nasty foreigners, taking all the school places, clogging up A&E and freezing your wages. Ignore all those reports saying immigrants bring in more in taxes than they spend in services, it's just not true, they're all scroungers and thieves, living in imaginary 7 bedroom council houses in sought-after London locations.
Unfortunately as the Catalan election shows there is still quite a lot of identity based politics in some regions, though it is (just about) in the minority.
That article was really good and gives an accurate reflection I would say, especially what it discusses about Moroccan and Roma integration.
Nice to see the kind and gentle debate has remained a CharltonLife tradition in my absence over the past 7 months...