How is it any different to a Surrey-based person to go retire in the Lake District and be reliant on their services? That's what taxes are for. Some of our tax money goes to the UK government and some of it goes to the EU for this exact reason.
The problematic thing about almost every argument against freedom of movement within the EU is that the same argument could also apply against freedom of movement within the UK but for obvious reasons the argument falls apart when applied at a national level as opposed to a continental level. The arguments also fall apart at a continental level but most Brexiters seem to lack the lucidity to make the conceptual jump from national to continental.
Another problem is that it takes no account of the freedom of movement of capital. How could we have a fair and just system where the wealthy few can move their income source around (their capital wealth) but the majority cannot move their income source (their ability to work)? You don't hear Brexiteers saying that investments should be restricted.
Guys, I'm going to make a suggestion here so feel free to shoot me down of course. Let's all climb out of our Remain/Leave trenches and just have a kick about in the no-mans land of threads about useless presents and how bad Christmas tele is for the next three days?
We can get then get back to pointing out the brilliance/futility of it all on the 27th refeshed and ready to start linking to the latest government feck up/glorious success.
Is that the no mans land with British French and Russians on one side (the i ties and Usa joined once they knew who would win) and the nasty Hun with its baby sister Austria with a few Turks on the other. The Swiss stayed out of it. The balkans were a bit mixed.
Oh how times have changed.....
But good idea Bournemouth. Have a great Xmas everybody.
How is it any different to a Surrey-based person to go retire in the Lake District and be reliant on their services? That's what taxes are for. Some of our tax money goes to the UK government and some of it goes to the EU for this exact reason.
The problematic thing about almost every argument against freedom of movement within the EU is that the same argument could also apply against freedom of movement within the UK but for obvious reasons the argument falls apart when applied at a national level as opposed to a continental level. The arguments also fall apart at a continental level but most Brexiters seem to lack the lucidity to make the conceptual jump from national to continental.
I think the Lake District is an interesting example to choose. It may have changed recently but because of locals not affording housing as a result of the high demand from "outsiders" they have local occupancy rules.
Freedom for Lee, those bastards from Blackheath moving in, taking our jobs, filling our schools and clinics, driving on our roads forcing purple Nectar cards on us. I can't wait for Lee independence day.
Freedom for Lee, those bastards from Blackheath moving in, taking our jobs, filling our schools and clinics, driving on our roads forcing purple Nectar cards on us. I can't wait for Lee independence day.
Don't fund hate @seth plum . I ripped mine up (although not before spending the £25 worth of 'credit' on it.
If the change of passport colour is being touted as a major victory the negotiations and planning for how this will all pan out must be awful. Seems designed to just appeal to older people and means absolutely nothing to younger people. Surely in a few years the demographics of those who are in favour of all this will be very low.
Yankee Doodle put a feather in his cap and called it macaroni, can't we put a blue passport in peoples hands and call it brexit? Leave everything else just the same.
The first phase deal struck at this month’s E.U. summit on citizens’ rights, Northern Island and the divorce bill was not so much a compromise as a capitulation. Mrs May David Davis and colleagues wasted more than a year defending the indefensible positions detached from political reality, inevitably, they were forced to fold. The Tory spin on this – namely that Mrs May has achieved a breakthrough and strengthened her premiership is yet another manifestation of Britain’s chronic addition to delusional politics. For their next trick comes the absurd claim they can somehow win an E.U. trade deal that does not seriously degrade Britain’s economy. Dream on. Cosying up to China’s hard-nosed authoritarian leadership as Philip Hammond and David Cameron propose will not restore Britain’s fortunes and independence. Making nice with unpleasant and undemocratic governments such as Poland, or the Saudi bombers of Yemen will not do so either. Under this government, Britain has wholly lost its way in the world. It has forgotten what it stands for. It has no clue where it’s heading. And who needs a passport of any colour when you have nowhere to go.
Never fear I am sure the UKIP MEPs (Nigel in particular)who have been troughing it for years on EU salaries, pensions and expenses will ride to the rescue.
If Brexit means Brexit means blue passports and that's it then all good!
In 3-6 months we will know what is on the table and the impact analysis for various options will have been completed. Yes, Sadiq Khan has commisioned some for London which will be published at the appropriate time... and the government will publish theirs to support their u-turn to Norway option or continuing with the Canada path.
As @JohnfromNorfolk points out, the only people folding will be the government, not the EU27. And highlighting blue passports is just another way of shifting attention from the real issues.
People who voted leave aka winners have now achieved all of their aspirations which amounts to having a nice large group of 48% of the population to laugh and jab the finger at forever more. No leave voter can suggest anything more than triumphalism to be pleased about.
Stilton and English Cheddar for me. None of that foreign muck.
While I have no doubt that you are purchasing only West Country Farmhouse Cheddar (the one with the handy PDO status) or the like, sourced from your local artisanal/hipster Cheesemonger, it is worth pointing out that significant quantities of Cheddar sold in the UK (roughly a third) are produced in Ireland.
And I'm not sure how, in the the course of an ordinary supermarket shopping experience (with the possible exception of M&S), even where Cheddar is clearly (and possibly even accurately) labelled as produced in the UK, it would be that easy to avoid Scottish, Welsh, or Northern Irish cheeses, unless you are to buy PDO varieties.
Luckily, for Stilton, because it has PDO status, all cheeses called Stilton must be made with local milk in either Derbyshire, Leicestershire or Nottinghamshire.
Very useful thing that PDO designation....
Somerset actually. The Stilton designation well predates the EU. In fact I am sure we had Stilton before Monsieur De Gaulle, Mitterrand and Kohl.
Somerset Cheddar is covered by the West Country Farmhouse Cheddar PDO designation.
Yes, the Stilton name predates the EU, as does that of Cheddar, but Stilton has PDO status, which means that only those blue cheeses meeting the criteria for that designation may be called Stilton which is why that, while you may buy Irish Cheddar, you can only buy Cashel Blue, rather than Irish Stilton.
It is something of considerable value to Stilton producers (and, I would expect, dairy farmers within the catchment area) because it allows them enhanced income.
PDO (and PGI) designation is an EU initiative and is very successful, some non-EU products are covered (for a mix of EEA and accession countries, for which I'm assuming that Turkey is still an aceession state).
Protection of PDO status products outside the EU is largely achieved through bilateral treaties arranged by the EU.
Whether it continues to be applicable to UK produce will, no doubt, be one of the issues on which the razor-sharp intellect of, that fanatic about detail, David Davis will currently be trained - I look forward to his inevitable glorious success in persuading the EU to do precisely what it always wanted to do in this part, as in the other elements, of the Article 50 negotiations after Christmas...
Ah but you are overlooking the fact that Mr Davis will have Doctor Liam Fox assisting with the Trade negotiations (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, cough, cough, brown envelopes).
Or “the disgraced former defence secretary, Dr Liam Fox” to give him his proper title.
Be fair, we had to sack Mandelson dozens of times
More deflection.
If you read the story, Liam Fox is attempting to bury the details of any future trade negotiations with the US, not just while they are ongoing, but for years afterwards. So we won't know, just for example, whether there has been any discussions/agreement allowing GM crop producers access to the UK in time. Neither will Parliament be able to scrutinise the deal it seems. Another win for taking back control though eh?
This is the same Liam Fox btw who took his friend to work with him at the MOD, on official overseas trips, taking part in security meetings, etc. when he had no security clearance whatsoever IIRC. It's a shame he wasn't so keen on protecting who had proper access to classified information back then.
It staggers me that others are prepared to hand over such enormous unchecked influence over where this country is going, to individuals who should br nowhere near Parliament, let alone be in the Cabinet.
He won't be in Government by the time full Brexit happens, nor will many of the talking heads of today.
I hope you're right on that, yet you seem very happy for the "talking heads" around today to lead our country down some really stupid avenues? These effects will last decades not until the next election.
And that's before we get to the likes of Lynn Truss facing down huge multinationals looking to exploit our economic weakness in rolling back our current safeguards, etc.
I agree, Brexit is all about the decades, not the next few years. Decades where the population of the UK will top out at 70m and then (hopefully) start a steady reduction back to a manageable figure.
It probably won't affect me, I will be in Catalonia with my blue passport.
Not your place in France then?
No, I prefer the Spanos to the Frenchies.
However the question after brexit is, what do the Spanos think about you?
Probably the same, maybe worse - unlikely to be better than at present. But who cares ? Anyway, I'm heading to Catalonia (prob won't be Spain by then) because I like the way they are so pro-EU that they sent their main man to Brussels before he even got elected
Again you have missed the point.
You know this thing called freedom of movement, which allowed loads of Brits, often pensioners, to decamp to Spain ? Often without bothering to learn a word of Spanish, and often opting to live in a cocoon of English pubs, fish and chip shops and bowls clubs? And then pissing off the Spanish because they were clogging up the local health systems by congregating in certain areas? Brexit means it's all over. They might or might not let you stay. It won't be your choice. It will be theirs. They've taken back control.
Sources?
Why would you need a source? Try seeking to relocate to Melbourne without being on the list of approved tradespeople. Barcelona will be no different after Brexit, why would it be?
Or put it another way, we are Brexiting because too many Manuels are stopping good British waiters from getting a job. Why will the Spanish behave differently towards a Phil, unless he's got something they need?
So in your strange little rant are you saying free movement is bad because it upsets the locals? Because this goes against your other posts. Very confusing.
I'm also surprised you aren't telling us how impossible it was for you to set up a business and a new life outside the EU, something you managed before post communist Prague joined the EU. How on earth did you manage it? What colour were their passports. I think we should be told. ;-)
Comments
We can get then get back to pointing out the brilliance/futility of it all on the 27th refeshed and ready to start linking to the latest government feck up/glorious success.
*slips derringer behind shin pad*
Oh how times have changed.....
But good idea Bournemouth. Have a great Xmas everybody.
Don't fund hate @seth plum . I ripped mine up (although not before spending the £25 worth of 'credit' on it.
https://actions.sumofus.org/a/nectar-stop-funding-hate
Merry Christmas.
So either Theresa is incredibly thick or is deliberating deploying a dog-whistle to other fuckwits.
Leave everything else just the same.
Cosying up to China’s hard-nosed authoritarian leadership as Philip Hammond and David Cameron propose will not restore Britain’s fortunes and independence. Making nice with unpleasant and undemocratic governments such as Poland, or the Saudi bombers of Yemen will not do so either.
Under this government, Britain has wholly lost its way in the world. It has forgotten what it stands for. It has no clue where it’s heading. And who needs a passport of any colour when you have nowhere to go.
Maggie will be spinning in her grave. Oh wait a minute she was in charge when the burgundy passport was introduced.
In 3-6 months we will know what is on the table and the impact analysis for various options will have been completed. Yes, Sadiq Khan has commisioned some for London which will be published at the appropriate time... and the government will publish theirs to support their u-turn to Norway option or continuing with the Canada path.
As @JohnfromNorfolk points out, the only people folding will be the government, not the EU27. And highlighting blue passports is just another way of shifting attention from the real issues.
No leave voter can suggest anything more than triumphalism to be pleased about.
I'm also surprised you aren't telling us how impossible it was for you to set up a business and a new life outside the EU, something you managed before post communist Prague joined the EU. How on earth did you manage it? What colour were their passports. I think we should be told. ;-)