You still ignored the fact that despite your analysis, you completely missed the point that Grigg is a proven League 1 goalscorer. That is the type of signing that will get us promoted this season, not a promising League 2 youngster.
So you're moaning about people using the 'data' as a reason for signing him yet you're completely wrong about it. More so than that every single player you've named for us to sign has been nothing more than a Google search of top scorers.
Mmmmm, not really. The one's I have recommended signing this window are the following....
Ollie Watkins, age 21, POY, forward, because he was apparently the best player in all of L2. Obviously he would be hard to get, as he wanted the Championship. But he sold for £1.8M, only. Buying him at that price is far better than Grigg at a mil, imho.
David Ball, striker, because he has been constantly averaging about 10-13 since 2011 and he was free (plus 1.85m tall its nice to have height.) Free. Repeat. Free. I'll take Ball on a free over Grigg for a mil anyday.
James Justin, age 20, defender, because he was not very expensive (under $1m), apparently has a great attitude, has the size and speed and was one of the best defenders in L2 and could help us for a decade.
Liam Lindsay, age 23, defender, because he is big, has a great attitude, and was one of the best players in Scotland, and is young with good upside, and could have been bought for £350k, possibly.
Aaron Pierre, age 24, defender, who is considered one of the best defenders in L2, costs £300k or so.
Nathan Thomas, POY, striker, who was a "close to" free and has some amazing highlights, age 20, with upside.
Nathan Smith, defender, age 23, POY for Port Vale and according to their own fans a really good defender
Lawrence Vigouroux, keeper, multiple POY, has the size, attitude, age 24
Billy Waters, striker, a bit small but ferocious apparently and great attitude and just 23.
So of the 9 people I hoped we would make a run at, only 4 were scorers and none were league leaders in scoring. I wanted them because they were either free, with a solid history of scoring. Or were very young and considered extremely good with huge upside by their own fan base and those watching. I wanted Ball because I felt he was as good as any striker we had and was free. Key word. Free.
Now we are behind the 8-ball, the season is underway, and we are gonna spend 1 million on someone at the last minute. Desperation rarely works out.
Yes, I am data driven, but not the kind of data of... who scored, alone. I am a fan of meta-data, all of which indicates spending money on transfers of players in their prime (or past, like Marshall) leads to poor long-term relative results compared to buying younger players with upside. We are not ManU or PSG. We are a club in the middle of League One, trying to get out. I believe we should be stockpiling the best young players from the league below us and improving them, not spending millions on those in their prime (or past) with a history of injuries like Grigg or Marshall. I like gathering POY from clubs. When the entire team or fan base votes someone POY, that gets my attention, especially is they are young and getting better.
Plus, you are forgetting another possibility... what if we get Grigg for a mil and then RD decides to recoup that by selling Konsa for £3 mil. How would that tickle your fancy?
I still can't get over how someone living in California can have such an in depth knowledge/interest of league one football. I live in south east London, have done all my life and I don't know half the players you talk of
That interview is so clearly about Will Grigg... Wigan would be silly to sell him to us,I really think we are a 20 goal a season striker away from a very good season
One interesting aspect is if you look at the Wigan Squad...
They themselves only have four Strikers at the moment (Grigg | Toney | Massey | Hunt) so if they let Grigg join us then they themselves drop to having just three Strikers (seems the norm for clubs to have at least four)
Only way we'll get Will Grigg is if they manage to find a replacement first... thats if they want to find a replacement.
Also if Paul Warne (Rotherham) is being serious when he sees Charlton as title contenders and a benchmark then nearly every other Manager in this League will have the same opinion which for me means we have to sign a Striker who isnt already in this Division!!
I'll just point out that Robinson was bigging up Northampton as the strongest team we had faced so far before last weekend's game. Not sure I'd take too much notice of what managers say about the opposition pre-game.
That interview is so clearly about Will Grigg... Wigan would be silly to sell him to us,I really think we are a 20 goal a season striker away from a very good season
One interesting aspect is if you look at the Wigan Squad...
They themselves only have four Strikers at the moment (Grigg | Toney | Massey | Hunt) so if they let Grigg join us then they themselves drop to having just three Strikers (seems the norm for clubs to have at least four)
Only way we'll get Will Grigg is if they manage to find a replacement first... thats if they want to find a replacement.
Also if Paul Warne (Rotherham) is being serious when he sees Charlton as title contenders and a benchmark then nearly every other Manager in this League will have the same opinion which for me means we have to sign a Striker who isnt already in this Division!!
I'll just point out that Robinson was bigging up Northampton as the strongest team we had faced so far before last weekend's game. Not sure I'd take too much notice of what managers say about the opposition pre-game.
Robinson's also just said similar about Rotherham.
That interview is so clearly about Will Grigg... Wigan would be silly to sell him to us,I really think we are a 20 goal a season striker away from a very good season
One interesting aspect is if you look at the Wigan Squad...
They themselves only have four Strikers at the moment (Grigg | Toney | Massey | Hunt) so if they let Grigg join us then they themselves drop to having just three Strikers (seems the norm for clubs to have at least four)
Only way we'll get Will Grigg is if they manage to find a replacement first... thats if they want to find a replacement.
Also if Paul Warne (Rotherham) is being serious when he sees Charlton as title contenders and a benchmark then nearly every other Manager in this League will have the same opinion which for me means we have to sign a Striker who isnt already in this Division!!
I'll just point out that Robinson was bigging up Northampton as the strongest team we had faced so far before last weekend's game. Not sure I'd take too much notice of what managers say about the opposition pre-game.
Robinson's also just said similar about Rotherham.
So you're moaning about people using the 'data' as a reason for signing him yet you're completely wrong about it. More so than that every single player you've named for us to sign has been nothing more than a Google search of top scorers.
Mmmmm, not really. The one's I have recommended signing this window are the following....
Ollie Watkins, age 21, POY, forward, because he was apparently the best player in all of L2. Obviously he would be hard to get, as he wanted the Championship. But he sold for £1.8M, only. Buying him at that price is far better than Grigg at a mil, imho.
David Ball, striker, because he has been constantly averaging about 10-13 since 2011 and he was free (plus 1.85m tall its nice to have height.) Free. Repeat. Free. I'll take Ball on a free over Grigg for a mil anyday.
James Justin, age 20, defender, because he was not very expensive (under $1m), apparently has a great attitude, has the size and speed and was one of the best defenders in L2 and could help us for a decade.
Liam Lindsay, age 23, defender, because he is big, has a great attitude, and was one of the best players in Scotland, and is young with good upside, and could have been bought for £350k, possibly.
Aaron Pierre, age 24, defender, who is considered one of the best defenders in L2, costs £300k or so.
Nathan Thomas, POY, striker, who was a "close to" free and has some amazing highlights, age 20, with upside.
Nathan Smith, defender, age 23, POY for Port Vale and according to their own fans a really good defender
Lawrence Vigouroux, keeper, multiple POY, has the size, attitude, age 24
Billy Waters, striker, a bit small but ferocious apparently and great attitude and just 23.
So of the 9 people I hoped we would make a run at, only 4 were scorers and none were league leaders in scoring. I wanted them because they were either free, with a solid history of scoring. Or were very young and considered extremely good with huge upside by their own fan base and those watching. I wanted Ball because I felt he was as good as any striker we had and was free. Key word. Free.
Now we are behind the 8-ball, the season is underway, and we are gonna spend 1 million on someone at the last minute. Desperation rarely works out.
Yes, I am data driven, but not the kind of data of... who scored, alone. I am a fan of meta-data, all of which indicates spending money on transfers of players in their prime (or past, like Marshall) leads to poor long-term relative results compared to buying younger players with upside. We are not ManU or PSG. We are a club in the middle of League One, trying to get out. I believe we should be stockpiling the best young players from the league below us and improving them, not spending millions on those in their prime (or past) with a history of injuries like Grigg or Marshall. I like gathering POY from clubs. When the entire team or fan base votes someone POY, that gets my attention, especially is they are young and getting better.
Plus, you are forgetting another possibility... what if we get Grigg for a mil and then RD decides to recoup that by selling Konsa for £3 mil. How would that tickle your fancy?
The problems with this is approach are that:
1) As we have seen with some of our recent signings, if the players don't develop as hoped the they are stuck in the wage bill and we can't even give them away
2) All clubs are trying to sign these kind of players so their prices are often driven up and do not offer much better value than established players and may not still be here when they can do the job an older player can do from day one.
3) A few players like this in the squad can be managed, too many and the results suffer. I would maintain that we have enough of those slots filled with our own youth players and That may we'll be the case for a while.
It's true that we are not Man Utd but we're not shopping in the same pool as them and I would also suggest that compared to League One we are close to being a relative Man Utd.
I'm sure that you are very fastidious in your research but I suspect that the same can be said of hose that chose Polish Pete, Nego, Tudadean etc. There is a relationship between the obvious accuracy of a player's development (and therefore his price and, by definition, how much money we can make on him) and the price of signing him. It's similar to the buying of shares or other investments.
It's all well and good buying players that might be world class but might also have to be paid off if they fail to deliver but it's high risk and I would argue that a club needs to be very wealthy in order to take on the potential burden if more than one or two players are speculated on in this fashion.
Definitely not. In the one u21 game I saw Polish Pete it was obvious he wasn't good enough for our first team. Didn't have the touch and strength to replace Yann while he didn't have enough pace to offer that type of threat.
They completely underestimated the league and the players we already had. There was no understanding or attention to detail.
What there needs to be is a balance. In 2011 we signed younger but proven players that were on the up such as Stephens and Wiggins. They didn't all work out, Green being an example of that.
I doubt a whole team of players like that would worked out, that's where signing reliable and experienced players like Cort, Hughes etc was also important.
I'm not sure that you are disagreeing with me. My point was that without actually watching a player play it is very difficult to assess a his suitability or potential from stats on a sheet of paper. My point was that one can't sign players simply from numbers and when Charlton did it led to mistakes.
I was also advocating established players like Cort and Hughes.
That interview is so clearly about Will Grigg... Wigan would be silly to sell him to us,I really think we are a 20 goal a season striker away from a very good season
One interesting aspect is if you look at the Wigan Squad...
They themselves only have four Strikers at the moment (Grigg | Toney | Massey | Hunt) so if they let Grigg join us then they themselves drop to having just three Strikers (seems the norm for clubs to have at least four)
Only way we'll get Will Grigg is if they manage to find a replacement first... thats if they want to find a replacement.
Also if Paul Warne (Rotherham) is being serious when he sees Charlton as title contenders and a benchmark then nearly every other Manager in this League will have the same opinion which for me means we have to sign a Striker who isnt already in this Division!!
I'll just point out that Robinson was bigging up Northampton as the strongest team we had faced so far before last weekend's game. Not sure I'd take too much notice of what managers say about the opposition pre-game.
Robinson's also just said similar about Rotherham.
Think it's true of Rotherham though.
Maybe but I just found it kind of funny he's said it about two games already.
So you're moaning about people using the 'data' as a reason for signing him yet you're completely wrong about it. More so than that every single player you've named for us to sign has been nothing more than a Google search of top scorers.
Mmmmm, not really. The one's I have recommended signing this window are the following....
Ollie Watkins, age 21, POY, forward, because he was apparently the best player in all of L2. Obviously he would be hard to get, as he wanted the Championship. But he sold for £1.8M, only. Buying him at that price is far better than Grigg at a mil, imho.
David Ball, striker, because he has been constantly averaging about 10-13 since 2011 and he was free (plus 1.85m tall its nice to have height.) Free. Repeat. Free. I'll take Ball on a free over Grigg for a mil anyday.
James Justin, age 20, defender, because he was not very expensive (under $1m), apparently has a great attitude, has the size and speed and was one of the best defenders in L2 and could help us for a decade.
Liam Lindsay, age 23, defender, because he is big, has a great attitude, and was one of the best players in Scotland, and is young with good upside, and could have been bought for £350k, possibly.
Aaron Pierre, age 24, defender, who is considered one of the best defenders in L2, costs £300k or so.
Nathan Thomas, POY, striker, who was a "close to" free and has some amazing highlights, age 20, with upside.
Nathan Smith, defender, age 23, POY for Port Vale and according to their own fans a really good defender
Lawrence Vigouroux, keeper, multiple POY, has the size, attitude, age 24
Billy Waters, striker, a bit small but ferocious apparently and great attitude and just 23.
So of the 9 people I hoped we would make a run at, only 4 were scorers and none were league leaders in scoring. I wanted them because they were either free, with a solid history of scoring. Or were very young and considered extremely good with huge upside by their own fan base and those watching. I wanted Ball because I felt he was as good as any striker we had and was free. Key word. Free.
Now we are behind the 8-ball, the season is underway, and we are gonna spend 1 million on someone at the last minute. Desperation rarely works out.
Yes, I am data driven, but not the kind of data of... who scored, alone. I am a fan of meta-data, all of which indicates spending money on transfers of players in their prime (or past, like Marshall) leads to poor long-term relative results compared to buying younger players with upside. We are not ManU or PSG. We are a club in the middle of League One, trying to get out. I believe we should be stockpiling the best young players from the league below us and improving them, not spending millions on those in their prime (or past) with a history of injuries like Grigg or Marshall. I like gathering POY from clubs. When the entire team or fan base votes someone POY, that gets my attention, especially is they are young and getting better.
Plus, you are forgetting another possibility... what if we get Grigg for a mil and then RD decides to recoup that by selling Konsa for £3 mil. How would that tickle your fancy?
The problems with this is approach are that:
1) As we have seen with some of our recent signings, if the players don't develop as hoped the they are stuck in the wage bill and we can't even give them away
2) All clubs are trying to sign these kind of players so their prices are often driven up and do not offer much better value than established players and may not still be here when they can do the job an older player can do from day one.
3) A few players like this in the squad can be managed, too many and the results suffer. I would maintain that we have enough of those slots filled with our own youth players and That may we'll be the case for a while.
It's true that we are not Man Utd but we're not shopping in the same pool as them and I would also suggest that compared to League One we are close to being a relative Man Utd.
I'm sure that you are very fastidious in your research but I suspect that the same can be said of hose that chose Polish Pete, Nego, Tudadean etc. There is a relationship between the obvious accuracy of a player's development (and therefore his price and, by definition, how much money we can make on him) and the price of signing him. It's similar to the buying of shares or other investments.
It's all well and good buying players that might be world class but might also have to be paid off if they fail to deliver but it's high risk and I would argue that a club needs to be very wealthy in order to take on the potential burden if more than one or two players are speculated on in this fashion.
Definitely not. In the one u21 game I saw Polish Pete it was obvious he wasn't good enough for our first team. Didn't have the touch and strength to replace Yann while he didn't have enough pace to offer that type of threat.
They completely underestimated the league and the players we already had. There was no understanding or attention to detail.
What there needs to be is a balance. In 2011 we signed younger but proven players that were on the up such as Stephens and Wiggins. They didn't all work out, Green being an example of that.
I doubt a whole team of players like that would worked out, that's where signing reliable and experienced players like Cort, Hughes etc was also important.
I'm not sure that you are disagreeing with me. My point was that without actually watching a player play it is very difficult to assess a his suitability or potential from stats on a sheet of paper. My point was that one can't sign players simply from numbers and when Charlton did it led to mistakes.
I was also advocating established players like Cort and Hughes.
Were you suggesting something different?
I was agreeing, just pointing out that the network players clearly weren't scouted/researched properly.
Lose at Rotherham and the 'Robinson' count goes down, and the 'Gobbinson' count goes up. And vice versa of course.
Honestly, what are we like.
Yeah it's unfortunate. Especially as we've had a very good summer and played some excellent football to this point. We played a Champo club tight for ~75 minutes despite us playing mostly our reserves and them playing about half their first team. We won our last league game 4-1 at home. Had a lot of encouraging performances from new players (Clarke, Fosu), some excellent from returning players (DaSilva, Kashi, JFC), and we signed three of our most important players to new deals.
Yes we're a striker light, but there are still positive things to draw.
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On other hand some clubs like players to move away from home as part of the "growing up" experience.
Saw David Ball play at 19 for Swindon
I was also advocating established players like Cort and Hughes.
Were you suggesting something different?
And vice versa of course.
Honestly, what are we like.
abuseuse it.Yes we're a striker light, but there are still positive things to draw. Well...good point, well made.
Bid or no bid neither manager has to be 100% open or straight about what is happening or has happened and I doubt they are.
This is Wigan's asst manager