Whether we are an easy target or not, there is no smoke without fire, and we seem to be pretty good at giving it out but can never take it when it's dished back.
But hey maybe we can adopt the Millwank motto, "always the victims, it's never our fault"
If people genuinely think the locals only attacked cos of that song (which most probably didn't hear anyway) then I give up.
You realise think kind of thing (locals attaching us) happens at lots of England away games and is never ever reported..... Until England are in big numbers at a tournament and react.
Just sounds like what us Millwlal fans say...and you know what you lot think of that excuse!!
I'm flying out tonight, I'll respond next week with what I saw with my own eyes.
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
Nope, not having it. People that have never followed England away know better.
Have you ever followed Millwall to a big away game? If you haven't, using your logic, you are not in a position to judge Millwall fans.
Ive followed a domestic club around the country. Ive seen the level of effort you would have to put in to find aggro. Plus ive been to The New Den. Ive seen the cunt ratio they have.
So yeah, i can judge.
I would say 99% of people on this forum have had exactly that experience. I most certainly have. So, like you I can judge Millwall and England fans when they behave like that.
If people genuinely think the locals only attacked cos of that song (which most probably didn't hear anyway) then I give up.
You realise think kind of thing (locals attaching us) happens at lots of England away games and is never ever reported..... Until England are in big numbers at a tournament and react.
Just sounds like what us Millwlal fans say...and you know what you lot think of that excuse!!
I'm flying out tonight, I'll respond next week with what I saw with my own eyes.
(most likely lots of idiots on all sides!)
Some of our lot. I've always refrained from being to critical of your lot in certain situations as I know what happens and in a lot of respects there are similarities between Millwall and England - I.e 'experts' often speak crap without knowledge of what actually happens.
If any further evidence was needed surely the police statement above ends the discussion regards last night and what will inevitably follow over the next few days.
Shock horror - a group of locals looked to attack the (probably thinning out) England support.
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
Nope, not having it. People that have never followed England away know better.
Have you ever followed Millwall to a big away game? If you haven't, using your logic, you are not in a position to judge Millwall fans.
Ive followed a domestic club around the country. Ive seen the level of effort you would have to put in to find aggro. Plus ive been to The New Den. Ive seen the cunt ratio they have.
So yeah, i can judge.
I would say 99% of people on this forum have had exactly that experience. I most certainly have. So, like you I can judge Millwall and England fans when they behave like that.
The point i was making is that you have someone on this forum that goes regularly, giving first hand info about how easy it is for England fans to attract trouble. Millwall fans go out of their way to find it.
This game was always going to have this sort of trouble, just wait for the Russians to turn up, now without (ish!) stereotyping they will be looking for trouble! Also expect trouble for Germany V Poland. I doubt the other England games will have much bother, Marseilles is a different kettle of fish and I expect far worse to happen, good luck to those out there.
Is probably just the "Hold me Back" generation that have seen the videos of what happened in '98 and have tried to create the same sort of atmosphere as last time (of course the French havent helped by getting involved themselves).
One of the most shameful moments I've felt supporting Charlton was on the way to an away match once...
Coach stopped at Watford Gap Services heading North by a Leeds coach (Guess they've got supporters clubs in the South which take them to home games), some kid got off our coach in front of me, walked past these Leeds fans and said: Always look on the Turk side of life
One of the Leeds fans heard him and shouted after him... the Charlton kid completely ignored him and sped up, once he was with his mates at the doors he stopped and looked back, saw he hadnt been followed by the Leeds fans and was promptly congratulated by his little friends.
About how old would this kid be now then do you reckon?
This game was always going to have this sort of trouble, just wait for the Russians to turn up, now without (ish!) stereotyping they will be looking for trouble! Also expect trouble for Germany V Poland. I doubt the other England games will have much bother, Marseilles is a different kettle of fish and I expect far worse to happen, good luck to those out there.
Very good point - different kettle of fish completely as anyone there in 2007 will testify.
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
Nope, not having it. People that have never followed England away know better.
Have you ever followed Millwall to a big away game? If you haven't, using your logic, you are not in a position to judge Millwall fans.
Ive followed a domestic club around the country. Ive seen the level of effort you would have to put in to find aggro. Plus ive been to The New Den. Ive seen the cunt ratio they have.
So yeah, i can judge.
I would say 99% of people on this forum have had exactly that experience. I most certainly have. So, like you I can judge Millwall and England fans when they behave like that.
The point i was making is that you have someone on this forum that goes regularly, giving first hand info about how easy it is for England fans to attract trouble. Millwall fans go out of their way to find it.
So you believe an England regular, yet making a sweeping generalisation about us going out of our way to look for trouble?
We have a reputation. England have a reputation.
We have people who look for it. England have people who look for it.
We get opposition fans looking to have a pop. England get opposition fans looking to have a pop.
Interesting first hand account, and does indeed look like local scumbags were gathering to attack and one poor England fan got a pasting. Subsequently other England fans went to pursue the attackers.
Essentially what @The Organiser has been suggesting if I'm not mistaken, and very much England fans getting provoked and attacked before anything else happened.
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
Nope, not having it. People that have never followed England away know better.
Have you ever followed Millwall to a big away game? If you haven't, using your logic, you are not in a position to judge Millwall fans.
Ive followed a domestic club around the country. Ive seen the level of effort you would have to put in to find aggro. Plus ive been to The New Den. Ive seen the cunt ratio they have.
So yeah, i can judge.
I would say 99% of people on this forum have had exactly that experience. I most certainly have. So, like you I can judge Millwall and England fans when they behave like that.
The point i was making is that you have someone on this forum that goes regularly, giving first hand info about how easy it is for England fans to attract trouble. Millwall fans go out of their way to find it.
So you believe an England regular, yet making a sweeping generalisation about us going out of our way to look for trouble?
We have a reputation. England have a reputation.
We have people who look for it. England have people who look for it.
We get opposition fans looking to have a pop. England get opposition fans looking to have a pop.
Yeah cos ive got plenty Milwall mates and they are all lying c*nts
Singing Isis where r u and then bleating when attacked - would never bother with an England tournament - if I did I would b nowhere near the knob heads coz this is what happens
Hang on...singing a song about ISIS deserves an attack?
Are you saying people out there are pro-ISIS and defending the ISIS name by attacking England fans?
haven't got a clue but should think there are loads of muslims / ISIS supporters out there - close to north africa - why sing it if you don't want them to show up - were they inviting them to join them for drinks? maybe an aperitif before dinner? Typical millwall - they were asking for trouble and got it from what I can see - may not have been Queensbury rules but not interested in any of the complaints - full of muppets like your lot in that video of the Barnsley game being 'held back' by 3 stewards - can't just go, have a laugh and a sing song and enjoy things - have to group up and then start provoking - we all know it.
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
Nope, not having it. People that have never followed England away know better.
You do see the irony of your post I presume.
I'm listening to the opinion of someone that goes regularly. What do you have to go on, calling people pathetic?
Not the point. Tell me the number of Millwall away games you go to in order to declare that there's no similarity ?
Singing Isis where r u and then bleating when attacked - would never bother with an England tournament - if I did I would b nowhere near the knob heads coz this is what happens
Hang on...singing a song about ISIS deserves an attack?
Are you saying people out there are pro-ISIS and defending the ISIS name by attacking England fans?
haven't got a clue but should think there are loads of muslims / ISIS supporters out there - close to north africa - why sing it if you don't want them to show up - were they inviting them to join them for drinks? maybe an aperitif before dinner? Typical millwall - they were asking for trouble and got it from what I can see - may not have been Queensbury rules but not interested in any of the complaints - full of muppets like your lot in that video of the Barnsley game being 'held back' by 3 stewards - can't just go, have a laugh and a sing song and enjoy things - have to group up and then start provoking - we all know it.
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
Nope, not having it. People that have never followed England away know better.
Have you ever followed Millwall to a big away game? If you haven't, using your logic, you are not in a position to judge Millwall fans.
Ive followed a domestic club around the country. Ive seen the level of effort you would have to put in to find aggro. Plus ive been to The New Den. Ive seen the ratio they have.
So yeah, i can judge.
If you can't follow the illogic of your own posts then this is going nowhere.
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
Nope, not having it. People that have never followed England away know better.
Have you ever followed Millwall to a big away game? If you haven't, using your logic, you are not in a position to judge Millwall fans.
Ive followed a domestic club around the country. Ive seen the level of effort you would have to put in to find aggro. Plus ive been to The New Den. Ive seen the cunt ratio they have.
So yeah, i can judge.
I would say 99% of people on this forum have had exactly that experience. I most certainly have. So, like you I can judge Millwall and England fans when they behave like that.
The point i was making is that you have someone on this forum that goes regularly, giving first hand info about how easy it is for England fans to attract trouble. Millwall fans go out of their way to find it.
So you believe an England regular, yet making a sweeping generalisation about us going out of our way to look for trouble?
We have a reputation. England have a reputation.
We have people who look for it. England have people who look for it.
We get opposition fans looking to have a pop. England get opposition fans looking to have a pop.
Yeah cos ive got plenty Milwall mates and they are all lying c*nts
Be interesting on their take when coming out of the ground at Bury then, or Rochdale, or Oxford, or Swindon this season. It must have been other mobs of Millwall waiting around outside to have a go at us.
not the point - you've made your bed, now you've got to lie in it - just don't go whinging about how the police and the locals are acting - it happens every tournament. Normal England fans are penalised and so are normal millwall fans - maybe stop mobbing up, singing provocative songs and throwing plastic chairs about for a few years and they might look elsewhere?
Singing Isis where r u and then bleating when attacked - would never bother with an England tournament - if I did I would b nowhere near the knob heads coz this is what happens
Hang on...singing a song about ISIS deserves an attack?
Are you saying people out there are pro-ISIS and defending the ISIS name by attacking England fans?
haven't got a clue but should think there are loads of muslims / ISIS supporters out there - close to north africa - why sing it if you don't want them to show up - were they inviting them to join them for drinks? maybe an aperitif before dinner? Typical millwall - they were asking for trouble and got it from what I can see - may not have been Queensbury rules but not interested in any of the complaints - full of muppets like your lot in that video of the Barnsley game being 'held back' by 3 stewards - can't just go, have a laugh and a sing song and enjoy things - have to group up and then start provoking - we all know it.
Wow.
I'm not sure what's worse, the fact you seem to think 450+ miles of sea is "close" or the fact you seem to think it's acceptable to band "muslims / ISIS supporters" in to the same category.
We've established they were singing "ISIS - Where are you?" and then got picked upon by a group of local youths, who were beginning to mass nearby.. most likely not due to their chants, but due to the fact they're England fans and England fans historically do have a reputation for liking a bit of a ruck.
If you think that they were attacked as they were singing a song about not being intimidated by ISIS, and the locals are "loads of muslims / ISIS supporters" then you need to take a long look at yourself. I would also suggest that that version of events would be even more dispicable than what actually occurred.
This game was always going to have this sort of trouble, just wait for the Russians to turn up, now without (ish!) stereotyping they will be looking for trouble! Also expect trouble for Germany V Poland. I doubt the other England games will have much bother, Marseilles is a different kettle of fish and I expect far worse to happen, good luck to those out there.
Very good point - different kettle of fish completely as anyone there in 2007 will testify.
Changing the subject a little - I used to go to England games quite a few years back but stopped when a significant number of people around me made nazi salutes during the national anthym and singing racist songs. I had and have no wish to be associated with that - but might be interested in catching a future game/s - possibly in this tournament - if as I assume this no longer persists.
It would be good because we do have a chance which is not that common in these big tournaments.
Been to four England games and have seen variations of this travelling to every game. All of those at home. When they stuffed Croatia 5-1 a few years ago, I was on a tube train where about thirty blokes were bellowing 'I'd rather be a paki than a turk' (pretty uncomfortable for me, let alone the three teenage asian girls who happened to be in the same carriage). Also saw a bunch of pricks chanting 'no surrender' at a bloke in an Ireland rugby short outside the Globe before another home game (think it was Slovakia), and 'dirty dago bastard' at (I think) Sergio Ramos when Spain won 1-0 at Wembley
It's all well and good saying 'it's a small minority' - but so fucking what? If they're a small minority of absolute cunts, then does that make it OK? Of course it doesn't - same as it doesn't make it OK if it's a 'small minority' of spanners who give Millwall a bad name. It might well be a small minority, but there's a slightly more significant minority who hang around the fringes of it, lapping it all up and glorying in it - just like the bloke I work with who came in laughing about what he'd seen on the Mail's website this morning - like it was a good old laugh. Just like all hooliganism - a bunch of blokes want to have a fight, then fine - who cares. It's a slightly different matter when they involve people who have fuck all to do with it. And yes, somewhat unsurprisingly, some foreign bar owners are not exactly enamoured of a bunch of noisy drunken cunts piling into their bar and 'taking it over' when there is a reasonably high chance it could get destroyed as a result. Similarly, it might be surprising for the apologists to learn that not all locals take kindly to their town squares being overrun with people puking, pissing in the street, fighting (with opposition fans or amongst themselves if they can't locate any) all because they've gone to watch a football match
It's called football fans humour mate. If you can't see the difference between a sarcastic chant and a political rally then I can't help you.
I'm the one who needs help? I wouldn't come to you for it if really thought I needed it. Perhaps you don't know the difference between humour and obnoxious behaviour in someone else's country.
Can't see the comparison with Millwall. You choose which club to support, not the case with following your country! And the sad fact is a large number of C*nts choose to support Millwall because of the reputation. (Well it ain't for football reasons)
Comments
But hey maybe we can adopt the Millwank motto, "always the victims, it's never our fault"
I'm flying out tonight, I'll respond next week with what I saw with my own eyes.
(most likely lots of idiots on all sides!)
If any further evidence was needed surely the police statement above ends the discussion regards last night and what will inevitably follow over the next few days.
Shock horror - a group of locals looked to attack the (probably thinning out) England support.
Just saying......
Just saying......
We have a reputation. England have a reputation.
We have people who look for it. England have people who look for it.
We get opposition fans looking to have a pop. England get opposition fans looking to have a pop.
Interesting first hand account, and does indeed look like local scumbags were gathering to attack and one poor England fan got a pasting. Subsequently other England fans went to pursue the attackers.
Essentially what @The Organiser has been suggesting if I'm not mistaken, and very much England fans getting provoked and attacked before anything else happened.
This also matches the police statement.
I'm not sure what's worse, the fact you seem to think 450+ miles of sea is "close" or the fact you seem to think it's acceptable to band "muslims / ISIS supporters" in to the same category.
We've established they were singing "ISIS - Where are you?" and then got picked upon by a group of local youths, who were beginning to mass nearby.. most likely not due to their chants, but due to the fact they're England fans and England fans historically do have a reputation for liking a bit of a ruck.
If you think that they were attacked as they were singing a song about not being intimidated by ISIS, and the locals are "loads of muslims / ISIS supporters" then you need to take a long look at yourself. I would also suggest that that version of events would be even more dispicable than what actually occurred.
It's all well and good saying 'it's a small minority' - but so fucking what? If they're a small minority of absolute cunts, then does that make it OK? Of course it doesn't - same as it doesn't make it OK if it's a 'small minority' of spanners who give Millwall a bad name. It might well be a small minority, but there's a slightly more significant minority who hang around the fringes of it, lapping it all up and glorying in it - just like the bloke I work with who came in laughing about what he'd seen on the Mail's website this morning - like it was a good old laugh. Just like all hooliganism - a bunch of blokes want to have a fight, then fine - who cares. It's a slightly different matter when they involve people who have fuck all to do with it. And yes, somewhat unsurprisingly, some foreign bar owners are not exactly enamoured of a bunch of noisy drunken cunts piling into their bar and 'taking it over' when there is a reasonably high chance it could get destroyed as a result. Similarly, it might be surprising for the apologists to learn that not all locals take kindly to their town squares being overrun with people puking, pissing in the street, fighting (with opposition fans or amongst themselves if they can't locate any) all because they've gone to watch a football match
Perhaps you don't know the difference between humour and obnoxious behaviour in someone else's country.
; )