There was Prague - happened day before game I think. I was in Stuttgart but not at said incident. If I remember rightly it happened in the area England had congregated on by the steps in the main square and I'm sure at the time was seen more as a preventative mass arrest. Don't remember mass fighting etc.
The point being that there are plenty of games where nothing happens - I was at all games in Germany and the police were spot on and the locals generally okay.
Are you taking the piss Steve? That's so ridiculous its offensive.
Weeks of press suggesting a terrorist organisation would target this game and fans sarcastically chant "ISIS where are you" - bit like "where's your famous Hampden roar" at Scotland away.
And you compare it to if fans chanted about an event that led to the death of 96 innocent football fans??!!
The locals would have been plotting this since the draw and looking forward to it. More so than England fans plotting and looking forward to starting trouble in Marseille
I was out there in 1998 when we played Tunisia and it was "lively" to say the least.
Felt like most of North Africa had turned up with the intention of attacking English fans. Anyone and evryone was fair game for a couple of days.
We got caught up in one attack by the fan zone on the beach and after being frog-marched back to our hotel werr told not to leave for our "own safety" and that we shouldn't go to the game as the police wouldn't be able to protect us.
We went to the game and out for beers but came close to getting a proper hiding several times.
To an extent England fans have made a rod for their own backs and as wuch have become targets. What doesn't help is the Daily Mail et al spinning minor incidents as "the end of days".
Singing anything about ISIS anywhere in France right now must be like singing about Hillsborough in Liverpool.
Nothing to do with whether you support Liverpool or Everton! Just unacceptable!
I don't see it that way at all. if the England fans were celebrating isis and their attacks then yes that makes sense but they weren't. you could see it more as a show of defiance and solidarity with the French against isis. or you could see it for what it is, a sarcastic song about a terror group that every right minded person hates in a city where there is suggestions to be trouble from isis. so maybe defiance is the right kind of word. look isis we're still here.
Whatever way you look at it singing the ISIS song was monumentally stupid in a country that has had martial law after people died in extremist attacks, even if it was ironic. Did they expect people to understand irony in another language? Asking for trouble and got it.
Singing Isis where r u and then bleating when attacked - would never bother with an England tournament - if I did I would b nowhere near the knob heads coz this is what happens
Hang on...singing a song about ISIS deserves an attack?
Are you saying people out there are pro-ISIS and defending the ISIS name by attacking England fans?
Maybe not pro ISIS, but one third of the local population is Muslim and it also represents the largest Muslim population in any western world city. It follows therefore, that there might be more than a few local ISIS "supporters".
But ISIS were responsible for the Paris atrocities and also for plans to attack the England and Russia fans during their brief stay in Marseilles, so you would think the vast majority of local Muslims would not be offended by anti ISIS chanting by idiots. I don't care what supporters of terror think.
Yet I wouldn't think any political or religious chanting is ideal though.
I think it all depends upon the songs to be honest. You could argue that given the current sensitivities in France, it's similar to going out in London and singing about the Al Qaeda in the months after July 2007 in London, or about the IRA during the 70s/80s. Whilst it sounds pretty terrible.. context is needed.
If, as @The Organiser says, it was a few fans having some drinks and chanting "ISIS, where are you?" then it's hardly singing in support of them. It's actually mocking their suspected targeting of the match, and is a bit of a "Fuck you, we don't care - we're here anyway.".. which is a bit different, and a message that everyone should probably respect.
No, chanting like that wont be to everyone's tastes; but it's not as bad as initially sounds - not by a long shot.
I wish people would stop with the England & Millwall comparison. Its not the same in any way.
I agree, but my gut feel (having never been) would be that there is definitely a pissed up element that see themselves as a bit of an off-shoot of the British army 'representing' when on tour in some of the more high-profile venues / cities around Europe (others who know better can happily correct me).
My best guess over the next few weeks is we will see a fair element of:
- mass gatherings in main squares resulting in a world record of shirtless, arms spread wide 'come on then's' lapped up by an army of press - 90% of angry frothing at the mouth shouting and pointing supplemented by 10% of plastic bottle / chair throwing - twitchy police being quick to curb things resulting in making things worse and a fair degree of running backwards and forwards by the frothing arm-spreaders - an intense rumour-mill spreading amongst English fans of exaggerated / false stories of events occurring around the town building a bigger sense of edginess - only real violence happening very late at night, with small pockets of drunks getting into situations with locals / other nations, and the English largely on the receiving end of 'hit and runs' - mass exaggeration / shaming in the English press and huge amount of OTT stories regarding returning to the 'dark times of the 80s' - zero trouble in stadiums
I wish people would stop with the England & Millwall comparison. Its not the same in any way.
I agree, but my gut feel (having never been) would be that there is definitely a pissed up element that see themselves as a bit of an off-shoot of the British army 'representing' when on tour in some of the more high-profile venues / cities around Europe (others who know better can happily correct me).
My best guess over the next few weeks is we will see a fair element of:
- mass gatherings in main squares resulting in a world record of shirtless, arms spread wide 'come on then's' lapped up by an army of press - 90% of angry frothing at the mouth shouting and pointing supplemented by 10% of plastic bottle / chair throwing - twitchy police being quick to curb things resulting in making things worse and a fair degree of running backwards and forwards by the frothing arm-spreaders - an intense rumour-mill spreading amongst English fans of exaggerated / false stories of events occurring around the town building a bigger sense of edginess - only real violence happening very late at night, with small pockets of drunks getting into situations with locals / other nations, and the English largely on the receiving end of 'hit and runs' - mass exaggeration / shaming in the English press and huge amount of OTT stories regarding returning to the 'dark times of the 80s' - zero trouble in stadiums
I ain't takin my shirt off, but again, I can send you some photos if you're desperate pal
My brother in law follows England all over the place, and is going out to the Wales and Slovakia games. When the game was announced for Marseille, his comment was 'no way am i going there, there will be aggro all weekend'.
So last night is hardly a surprise. Tonight i'm sure will be even worse once more fans arrive.
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
Nope, not having it. People that have never followed England away know better.
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
Nope, not having it. People that have never followed England away know better.
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
Nope, not having it. People that have never followed England away know better.
You do see the irony of your post I presume.
I'm listening to the opinion of someone that goes regularly. What do you have to go on, calling people pathetic?
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
Nope, not having it. People that have never followed England away know better.
Have you ever followed Millwall to a big away game? If you haven't, using your logic, you are not in a position to judge Millwall fans.
Changing the subject a little - I used to go to England games quite a few years back but stopped when a significant number of people around me made nazi salutes during the national anthym and singing racist songs. I had and have no wish to be associated with that - but might be interested in catching a future game/s - possibly in this tournament - if as I assume this no longer persists.
It would be good because we do have a chance which is not that common in these big tournaments.
I know that area of Marseille very well indeed ..... looking at the photos in that Daily Mail article, the confrontation was in and around O'Malley's bar on one side of the Vieux Port.
But when first reading the article, it's easy to gain the impression that football hooligans were rampaging throughout the City Centre, rather than a small confrontation confined to one spot.
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
Nope, not having it. People that have never followed England away know better.
Have you ever followed Millwall to a big away game? If you haven't, using your logic, you are not in a position to judge Millwall fans.
Ive followed a domestic club around the country. Ive seen the level of effort you would have to put in to find aggro. Plus ive been to The New Den. Ive seen the ratio they have.
Comments
The point being that there are plenty of games where nothing happens - I was at all games in Germany and the police were spot on and the locals generally okay.
Nothing to do with whether you support Liverpool or Everton! Just unacceptable!
Weeks of press suggesting a terrorist organisation would target this game and fans sarcastically chant "ISIS where are you" - bit like "where's your famous Hampden roar" at Scotland away.
And you compare it to if fans chanted about an event that led to the death of 96 innocent football fans??!!
Am I missing something?
More so than England fans plotting and looking forward to starting trouble in Marseille
Felt like most of North Africa had turned up with the intention of attacking English fans. Anyone and evryone was fair game for a couple of days.
We got caught up in one attack by the fan zone on the beach and after being frog-marched back to our hotel werr told not to leave for our "own safety" and that we shouldn't go to the game as the police wouldn't be able to protect us.
We went to the game and out for beers but came close to getting a proper hiding several times.
To an extent England fans have made a rod for their own backs and as wuch have become targets. What doesn't help is the Daily Mail et al spinning minor incidents as "the end of days".
Yes I think you may of
Its the Euro Cup not a political rally.
The same would apply to the media and police.
If, as @The Organiser says, it was a few fans having some drinks and chanting "ISIS, where are you?" then it's hardly singing in support of them. It's actually mocking their suspected targeting of the match, and is a bit of a "Fuck you, we don't care - we're here anyway.".. which is a bit different, and a message that everyone should probably respect.
No, chanting like that wont be to everyone's tastes; but it's not as bad as initially sounds - not by a long shot.
My best guess over the next few weeks is we will see a fair element of:
- mass gatherings in main squares resulting in a world record of shirtless, arms spread wide 'come on then's' lapped up by an army of press
- 90% of angry frothing at the mouth shouting and pointing supplemented by 10% of plastic bottle / chair throwing
- twitchy police being quick to curb things resulting in making things worse and a fair degree of running backwards and forwards by the frothing arm-spreaders
- an intense rumour-mill spreading amongst English fans of exaggerated / false stories of events occurring around the town building a bigger sense of edginess
- only real violence happening very late at night, with small pockets of drunks getting into situations with locals / other nations, and the English largely on the receiving end of 'hit and runs'
- mass exaggeration / shaming in the English press and huge amount of OTT stories regarding returning to the 'dark times of the 80s'
- zero trouble in stadiums
So last night is hardly a surprise. Tonight i'm sure will be even worse once more fans arrive.
@Red_in_SE8 is absolutely right on this. There are huge similarities between England and Millwall.
Both have reputations which attract those wanting to have a ruck and both are as someone said above easy targets for just that reason.
Yes it's a minority of England fans but it's also true that it is a minority of Millwall fans that want to cause trouble.
Demonising our neighbours whilst defending the rubbish that cause problems wherever England travel is pathetic.
In my 12 years of following England away I've only twice seen what I would describe as an England mob openly yet discretely looking for trouble in big numbers - that was Croatia in 06 and Poland 12.
That's not to say there are not little groups doing and looking for their own thing all over the show.
The majority of trouble actually originates from big gatherings of pissed up lads and replica shirt wearing numpties acting like numpties (drunk/rowdy) and then getting attacked by police or locals.
There are also plenty of times when innocent fans get attacked for no such behaviour as I can personally testify.too.
I'd say England's support these days does not offensively look for trouble like a Millwall one would on their big days out. It's just the behaviour from some is a magnet to willing locals and thugs in uniforms.
I'd honestly say England and English clubs abroad are the victims rather than the perpetrator 9 times out of 10 these days.
It would be good because we do have a chance which is not that common in these big tournaments.
I know that area of Marseille very well indeed ..... looking at the photos in that Daily Mail article, the confrontation was in and around O'Malley's bar on one side of the Vieux Port.
But when first reading the article, it's easy to gain the impression that football hooligans were rampaging throughout the City Centre, rather than a small confrontation confined to one spot.
So yeah, i can judge.