Putin's Russia is very different from gobachov's russia even though many of the Russian people are the same.
There is every possibility the state will have assisted, trained and supported the current display of Russian strength in France.
Putin remains one of the most powerful and dangerous people on the planet, a man to be rightly feared.
In many ways what he has achieved is very impressive.
He is, to be entirely honest, a fascinating chap. His background in the KGB and his - incredibly peculiar and unstatesmanlike - displays of masculinity.
I think Russia's post-USSR transition is also an interesting topic. Ordinary Russians missed out on so much of what the rest of the world experienced, and even when the country was transitioning it wasn't easy - development funds being abused, gangs and criminals capitalising upon law enforcement being in disarray.
Definitely an interesting country with some equally interesting characters.
Said all along , with my limited contact with Russians on holiday they were the most ignorant rude bellends you could ever meet sad robot filth , with even less personality than myself
How comes when I've commented on my "limited contact" with people of a certain creed or religion I've been lynched and called a racist!!
Whilst the hooligans, politicians and other establishment thugs are awful, I have found most ordinary Russians to be lovely, warm people. We spent our honeymoon in Russia and enjoyed the kindness and hospitality of the country. It is certainly a complex country but the people are not all some kind of clone army.
Shocking that MP's over there are encouraging violent criminal acts too. What does this say for the future of Russia and the strange fact that they have obviously strongly just majorly got into something and pointing out we are the trend setters of 30 years ago.
Brits in football related violence have obviously been idiots over the years, with the bad high reputation for provoking football fights but these Russians are freaks, like they specifically stay in shape, work out go to the gym for the specific purpose to beat up football fans they don't know.
Its even weirder that these Russian thugs are not even under the influence of alcohol (not that its a good enough excuse anyway)
Seems Russia were under a suspended sentence from the last Euros, but only for three and a half years, so it had run out. Makes another suspended punishment farcical in my view.
I've been to Russia twice and meet a lot of lovely people. Just thought I'd mention that as its all gone a bit cold war on here. Not a sympathiser or apologist. Just adding perspective.
Absolutely agree with you. But Putin has taken complete control of that country, and its media. Russia is currently the country the UK would be if a bunch of 'Wall took over the UK Cabinet.
There are more than 40,000 Russians with permanent residence in the Czech Republic. Generally they are people who are disgusted by the direction Putin is taking their country, although we are also worried about Putin agents "embedded" among them.
Who is 'we', out of interest?
Czech society, as I observe from commentary in the Czech media, my wife, and Czech friends and colleagues. The latter two have spent many years 'educating' me about Russia, and I'm passing on what I have learnt.
40,000 does not sound like a lot to Brits I suppose, but they are the second biggest bloc of migrants in the country. Unlike most migrants blocs, they are seen to have a large middle-class contingent. So to be clear, they are perceived as largely the type of reasonable, educated people who are appalled by Putin - which means they are not back in Russia opposing him in democratic terms. But Czechs are rightly suspicious of them, given the history, which is why there is suspicion that some are not all they seem.
@CharltonMadrid , have you followed this at all in the Spanish press? I made the mistake of clicking into Marca.com yesterday. After each article is an area for readers to comment, and Marca seems to attract the rabidly anti English. On reading that the Russians now have a suspended ban imposed, the reaction was hugely 'and what about the English?'. From there, it seems most read events in France as purely the fault of England. One guy even suggested Putin may tire of being told what to do by UEFA. Beyond parody?
There was far more indiscriminate violence than this carried out against England fans in the qualifier in Moscow in 2007 when 6k travelled.
Anyone was fair game - even a official trip full of 'normals' who were attacked as they got of the coach in red square on a touristy trip. Even women were getting clobbered.
Such a shame that the press don't report on those events - maybe Joe public would be a bit more understanding of the issues England fans often face then, rather than being shocked and ignorantly damming of all England fans when this kind of thing happens at a tournament.
Said all along , with my limited contact with Russians on holiday they were the most ignorant rude bellends you could ever meet sad robot filth , with even less personality than myself
How comes when I've commented on my "limited contact" with people of a certain creed or religion I've been lynched and called a racist!!
Don't think anyone actually hanged you from a tree without a trial so no, you weren't lynched but maybe it was because people thought what you said was racist?
Not that two wrongs make a right.
You are correct that some the same sweeping generalisations made about all Russians would be picked as a racist and discriminatory if made about other groups. They are just as wrong and just as worthy of people being pulled up on them.
Never had you down as one of liberal PC gone mad, offended on other people's behalf brigade but well done for calling out the discriminatory remarks in this thread. They are not needed and undermine the many valid statements made.
There was far more indiscriminate violence than this carried out against England fans in the qualifier in Moscow in 2007 when 6k travelled.
Anyone was fair game - even a official trip full of 'normals' who were attacked as they got of the coach in red square on a touristy trip. Even women were getting clobbered.
Such a shame that the press don't report on those events - maybe Joe public would be a bit more understanding of the issues England fans often face then, rather than being shocked and ignorantly damming of all England fans when this kind of thing happens at a tournament.
Am I correct in assuming that when people on here refer to 'scarfers' and 'normals' they are referring to fans who don't think it is OK to travel to a foreign city, drink for 12 hours and then continuously sing at the top of their voices insulting songs about the locals such as 'stand up if you hate the French'?
No I'm talking about the exact opposite - more like the demographic of a Charlton away game at Blackburn midweek.
In my honest opinion. We prob have 5% out there deserving a clump and expecting one 20% out the deserving a clump and not expecting one - aged 30-40 75% not deserving one, not expecting one - aged 18 -30
It's the 75% that seem to be getting the bum deal. Aged 7-70
In my honest opinion. We prob have 5% out there deserving a clump and expecting one 20% out the deserving a clump and not expecting one 75% not deserving one, not expecting one
It's the 75% that seem to be getting the bum deal.
In my honest opinion. We prob have 5% out there deserving a clump and expecting one 20% out the deserving a clump and not expecting one - aged 30-40 75% not deserving one, not expecting one - aged 18 -30
It's the 75% that seem to be getting the bum deal. Aged 7-70
The 75% are indeed the victims here but although it would seem that the Russian hooligans are the real villains of this piece the other 25% you mention are far from blameless.
It's estimated that there are 30k English supporters in France that's 7.5k either up for getting a clump or deserving one.
Possibly but tend agree with some the other side of the fence, if your out there singing songs to wind up up other nations then you probably deserve a clump but not a full scale beating. It's that middle group of 18-30 that don't get the other countries don't 'get Banter' and won't understand the risk they are in, my lad being one of that category hence not wanting him to go out there and put the kibosh on it.
Lebvedev said something like 'Well done the boys for doing us proud, let's see what we can do for them when they get home'
The Russian combat units will not get nicked in France because they are too fast for inspector cluseau's men (rank I know sorry), get promoted up in the army, get medals and shit and be generally well praised.
The English fans will get nicked and sent to prison, or banned or both.
In my honest opinion. We prob have 5% out there deserving a clump and expecting one 20% out the deserving a clump and not expecting one - aged 30-40 75% not deserving one, not expecting one - aged 18 -30
It's the 75% that seem to be getting the bum deal. Aged 7-70
The 75% are indeed the victims here but although it would seem that the Russian hooligans are the real villains of this piece the other 25% you mention are far from blameless.
It's estimated that there are 30k English supporters in France that's 7.5k either up for getting a clump or deserving one.
I think there's a line in what other countries regard as deserving a c!ump and we look at as deserving clump.
W Seen video today of a young lad wiping his arse in the street with a russian flag, pissed up banter to him and his mates, deserves a clump to anybody else I reckon.
Putin's Russia is very different from gobachov's russia even though many of the Russian people are the same.
There is every possibility the state will have assisted, trained and supported the current display of Russian strength in France.
Putin remains one of the most powerful and dangerous people on the planet, a man to be rightly feared.
In many ways what he has achieved is very impressive.
But he's not stupid either. All Russian Presidents, ever since Stalin, have respected strong enemy force. The key is that NATO demonstrates that it is strong in the Baltic states and in Poland - and thankfully that's what they appear to be doing. I still say America and the EU unnecessarily provoked Russia with overtures to Ukraine after the Cold War - but that's a different aspect.
Putin's Russia is very different from gobachov's russia even though many of the Russian people are the same.
There is every possibility the state will have assisted, trained and supported the current display of Russian strength in France.
Putin remains one of the most powerful and dangerous people on the planet, a man to be rightly feared.
In many ways what he has achieved is very impressive.
He is, to be entirely honest, a fascinating chap. His background in the KGB and his - incredibly peculiar and unstatesmanlike - displays of masculinity.
I think Russia's post-USSR transition is also an interesting topic. Ordinary Russians missed out on so much of what the rest of the world experienced, and even when the country was transitioning it wasn't easy - development funds being abused, gangs and criminals capitalising upon law enforcement being in disarray.
Definitely an interesting country with some equally interesting characters.
Yeah, they're now trying to catch up on western hooliganism too.
The way some people are putting is that a group of tuff but friendly Russians were quietly having a drink, waiting for the game to start, when a load of weasel English start singing anti-Russian songs. So, the Russians quickly got changed into their Dagenham Market Tapout T-shirts and gum shields , which they luckily had with em back at the hotel and taught those English a lesson or two.
When in reality; a large group of everyday football fans were in the square having a laugh, no different to any other nations supporters, when the Russians run into the square, catching the everyday football fans completely off guard and gave em a good shoeing. Half of em were even tripped up as they ran away and stamped on.
The more videos I've seen, the more I can't believe what is going on and I'm 100% positive it is state supported, if not sponsered
The way some people are putting is that a group of tuff but friendly Russians were quietly having a drink, waiting for the game to start, when a load of weasel English start singing anti-Russian songs. So, the Russians quickly got changed into their Dagenham Market Tapout T-shirts and gum shields , which they luckily had with em back at the hotel and taught those English a lesson or two.
When in reality; a large group of everyday football fans were in the square having a laugh, no different to any other nations supporters, when the Russians run into the square, catching the everyday football fans completely off guard and gave em a good shoeing. Half of em were even tripped up as they ran away and stamped on.
The more videos I've seen, the more I can't believe what is going on and I'm 100% positive it is state supported, if not sponsered
All the above IMO
I agree with you. Anyone who doubts that should consider the behaviour of the Russian Sports Minister at the ground, and the appalling comments of the Russian MP. Imagine the reaction if Farage had urged our lot to go on the rampage (or even support their silly chant) in the name of the Brexit campaign.
This is not an anti-Russia view. It's an anti -Putin view.
In my honest opinion. We prob have 5% out there deserving a clump and expecting one 20% out the deserving a clump and not expecting one - aged 30-40 75% not deserving one, not expecting one - aged 18 -30
It's the 75% that seem to be getting the bum deal. Aged 7-70
The 75% are indeed the victims here but although it would seem that the Russian hooligans are the real villains of this piece the other 25% you mention are far from blameless.
It's estimated that there are 30k English supporters in France that's 7.5k either up for getting a clump or deserving one.
I think there's a line in what other countries regard as deserving a c!ump and we look at as deserving clump.
W Seen video today of a young lad wiping his arse in the street with a russian flag, pissed up banter to him and his mates, deserves a clump to anybody else I reckon.
I've seen a few photos of young English fans with Russian flags that they have stolen and it does make me wonder if stories about England fans getting mugged for their shirts (someone on this thread mentioned their pal having his Arsenal top pinched) is a retaliation.
The ones doing it are the ones that would be the first on their toes if it came on top.
The way some people are putting is that a group of tuff but friendly Russians were quietly having a drink, waiting for the game to start, when a load of weasel English start singing anti-Russian songs. So, the Russians quickly got changed into their Dagenham Market Tapout T-shirts and gum shields , which they luckily had with em back at the hotel and taught those English a lesson or two.
When in reality; a large group of everyday football fans were in the square having a laugh, no different to any other nations supporters, when the Russians run into the square, catching the everyday football fans completely off guard and gave em a good shoeing. Half of em were even tripped up as they ran away and stamped on.
The more videos I've seen, the more I can't believe what is going on and I'm 100% positive it is state supported, if not sponsered
The way some people are putting is that a group of tuff but friendly Russians were quietly having a drink, waiting for the game to start, when a load of weasel English start singing anti-Russian songs. So, the Russians quickly got changed into their Dagenham Market Tapout T-shirts and gum shields , which they luckily had with em back at the hotel and taught those English a lesson or two.
When in reality; a large group of everyday football fans were in the square having a laugh, no different to any other nations supporters, when the Russians run into the square, catching the everyday football fans completely off guard and gave em a good shoeing. Half of em were even tripped up as they ran away and stamped on.
The more videos I've seen, the more I can't believe what is going on and I'm 100% positive it is state supported, if not sponsered
Meanwhile my assistant's husband, who bought my 4 tickets for Czechs v Spain, arrived back late last night and the brief report was
- fantastic experience - Czechs and Spanish mixing happily - great atmosphere in Bordeaux fanzone for Slovakia - Wales - French people wonderful to them; having a ten year old in Czech colours seems to especially charm them.
Assistant pissed off though. They drove there, and he never filled the car with Bordeaux wine.
Shocking that MP's over there are encouraging violent criminal acts too. What does this say for the future of Russia and the strange fact that they have obviously strongly just majorly got into something and pointing out we are the trend setters of 30 years ago.
Brits in football related violence have obviously been idiots over the years, with the bad high reputation for provoking football fights but these Russians are freaks, like they specifically stay in shape, work out go to the gym for the specific purpose to beat up football fans they don't know.
Its even weirder that these Russian thugs are not even under the influence of alcohol (not that its a good enough excuse anyway)
Have to say that Russian MPs encouraging this reminds me of the rise of the Nazis with the help of the 'Brownshirts', who were paramilitary thugs.
Dictators love the supposed physical supremacy of their people which is why the USSR and East Germany drugged their athletes and why the modern Russian regime encourage this kind of aggressive masculinity (just as Putin likes to ride on a horse bare-chested).
Shocking that MP's over there are encouraging violent criminal acts too. What does this say for the future of Russia and the strange fact that they have obviously strongly just majorly got into something and pointing out we are the trend setters of 30 years ago.
Brits in football related violence have obviously been idiots over the years, with the bad high reputation for provoking football fights but these Russians are freaks, like they specifically stay in shape, work out go to the gym for the specific purpose to beat up football fans they don't know.
Its even weirder that these Russian thugs are not even under the influence of alcohol (not that its a good enough excuse anyway)
Have to say that Russian MPs encouraging this reminds me of the rise of the Nazis with the help of the 'Brownshirts', who were paramilitary thugs.
Dictators love the supposed physical supremacy of their people which is why the USSR and East Germany drugged their athletes and why the modern Russian regime encourage this kind of aggressive masculinity (just as Putin likes to ride on a horse bare-chested).
I'd argue it looks more like homo erotic than aggressive masculinity.
In my honest opinion. We prob have 5% out there deserving a clump and expecting one 20% out the deserving a clump and not expecting one - aged 30-40 75% not deserving one, not expecting one - aged 18 -30
It's the 75% that seem to be getting the bum deal. Aged 7-70
The 75% are indeed the victims here but although it would seem that the Russian hooligans are the real villains of this piece the other 25% you mention are far from blameless.
It's estimated that there are 30k English supporters in France that's 7.5k either up for getting a clump or deserving one.
I think there's a line in what other countries regard as deserving a c!ump and we look at as deserving clump.
W Seen video today of a young lad wiping his arse in the street with a russian flag, pissed up banter to him and his mates, deserves a clump to anybody else I reckon.
I've seen a few photos of young English fans with Russian flags that they have stolen and it does make me wonder if stories about England fans getting mugged for their shirts (someone on this thread mentioned their pal having his Arsenal top pinched) is a retaliation.
The ones doing it are the ones that would be the first on their toes if it came on top.
Exactly, the ones not expecting a clump as they see it as banter.
Shocking that MP's over there are encouraging violent criminal acts too. What does this say for the future of Russia and the strange fact that they have obviously strongly just majorly got into something and pointing out we are the trend setters of 30 years ago.
Brits in football related violence have obviously been idiots over the years, with the bad high reputation for provoking football fights but these Russians are freaks, like they specifically stay in shape, work out go to the gym for the specific purpose to beat up football fans they don't know.
Its even weirder that these Russian thugs are not even under the influence of alcohol (not that its a good enough excuse anyway)
Have to say that Russian MPs encouraging this reminds me of the rise of the Nazis with the help of the 'Brownshirts', who were paramilitary thugs.
Dictators love the supposed physical supremacy of their people which is why the USSR and East Germany drugged their athletes and why the modern Russian regime encourage this kind of aggressive masculinity (just as Putin likes to ride on a horse bare-chested).
Shocking that MP's over there are encouraging violent criminal acts too. What does this say for the future of Russia and the strange fact that they have obviously strongly just majorly got into something and pointing out we are the trend setters of 30 years ago.
Brits in football related violence have obviously been idiots over the years, with the bad high reputation for provoking football fights but these Russians are freaks, like they specifically stay in shape, work out go to the gym for the specific purpose to beat up football fans they don't know.
Its even weirder that these Russian thugs are not even under the influence of alcohol (not that its a good enough excuse anyway)
Have to say that Russian MPs encouraging this reminds me of the rise of the Nazis with the help of the 'Brownshirts', who were paramilitary thugs.
Dictators love the supposed physical supremacy of their people which is why the USSR and East Germany drugged their athletes and why the modern Russian regime encourage this kind of aggressive masculinity (just as Putin likes to ride on a horse bare-chested).
I'd argue it looks more like homo erotic than aggressive masculinity.
Comments
I think Russia's post-USSR transition is also an interesting topic. Ordinary Russians missed out on so much of what the rest of the world experienced, and even when the country was transitioning it wasn't easy - development funds being abused, gangs and criminals capitalising upon law enforcement being in disarray.
Definitely an interesting country with some equally interesting characters.
40,000 does not sound like a lot to Brits I suppose, but they are the second biggest bloc of migrants in the country. Unlike most migrants blocs, they are seen to have a large middle-class contingent. So to be clear, they are perceived as largely the type of reasonable, educated people who are appalled by Putin - which means they are not back in Russia opposing him in democratic terms. But Czechs are rightly suspicious of them, given the history, which is why there is suspicion that some are not all they seem.
Beyond parody?
Anyone was fair game - even a official trip full of 'normals' who were attacked as they got of the coach in red square on a touristy trip. Even women were getting clobbered.
Such a shame that the press don't report on those events - maybe Joe public would be a bit more understanding of the issues England fans often face then, rather than being shocked and ignorantly damming of all England fans when this kind of thing happens at a tournament.
Not that two wrongs make a right.
You are correct that some the same sweeping generalisations made about all Russians would be picked as a racist and discriminatory if made about other groups. They are just as wrong and just as worthy of people being pulled up on them.
Never had you down as one of liberal PC gone mad, offended on other people's behalf brigade but well done for calling out the discriminatory remarks in this thread. They are not needed and undermine the many valid statements made.
We prob have 5% out there deserving a clump and expecting one
20% out the deserving a clump and not expecting one - aged 30-40
75% not deserving one, not expecting one - aged 18 -30
It's the 75% that seem to be getting the bum deal. Aged 7-70
It's estimated that there are 30k English supporters in France that's 7.5k either up for getting a clump or deserving one.
It's that middle group of 18-30 that don't get the other countries don't 'get Banter' and won't understand the risk they are in, my lad being one of that category hence not wanting him to go out there and put the kibosh on it.
W
Seen video today of a young lad wiping his arse in the street with a russian flag, pissed up banter to him and his mates, deserves a clump to anybody else I reckon.
I still say America and the EU unnecessarily provoked Russia with overtures to Ukraine after the Cold War - but that's a different aspect.
When in reality; a large group of everyday football fans were in the square having a laugh, no different to any other nations supporters, when the Russians run into the square, catching the everyday football fans completely off guard and gave em a good shoeing. Half of em were even tripped up as they ran away and stamped on.
The more videos I've seen, the more I can't believe what is going on and I'm 100% positive it is state supported, if not sponsered
All the above IMO
This is not an anti-Russia view. It's an anti -Putin view.
The ones doing it are the ones that would be the first on their toes if it came on top.
- fantastic experience
- Czechs and Spanish mixing happily
- great atmosphere in Bordeaux fanzone for Slovakia - Wales
- French people wonderful to them; having a ten year old in Czech colours seems to especially charm them.
Assistant pissed off though. They drove there, and he never filled the car with Bordeaux wine.
The 5% are far far more cleverer than that.