Trouble is everyone seems reliant on CARD for their protests. By the nature of its membership CARD will only ever be moderate in its ideas for match days, so the only way for hard hitting in ground protest is for others to follow their anger and act. Clearly there is not enough anger there as only a few do outside the CARD initiatives (and before it is said I have but looked like a lone wolf)
People have donated £20k+ to CARD. It's not unreasonable to expect them to lead and act.
They are and they are. Just not in the way you want them to it seems.
If you feel like more should be done then get in touch and "join" them to discuss what can be done. It's not a closed group of people.
How anyone can possibly say that CARD has not done enough OR not raised the profile of our predicament to a global level OR not had an impact on disrupting and affecting the regime is beyond me. Other than hiring an assassin to take out KM and RD I'm not sure how people think we can "get them out" more effectively.
Trouble is everyone seems reliant on CARD for their protests. By the nature of its membership CARD will only ever be moderate in its ideas for match days, so the only way for hard hitting in ground protest is for others to follow their anger and act. Clearly there is not enough anger there as only a few do outside the CARD initiatives (and before it is said I have but looked like a lone wolf)
People have donated £20k+ to CARD. It's not unreasonable to expect them to lead and act.
Do both. Donate and support CARD, and act directly old style in the ground.
And like you said, look like a lone wolf. That was the whole reason CARD was set up, a 'coalition' of groups working together so we didn't have a bunch of individual protests that no one notices.
Trouble is everyone seems reliant on CARD for their protests. By the nature of its membership CARD will only ever be moderate in its ideas for match days, so the only way for hard hitting in ground protest is for others to follow their anger and act. Clearly there is not enough anger there as only a few do outside the CARD initiatives (and before it is said I have but looked like a lone wolf)
People have donated £20k+ to CARD. It's not unreasonable to expect them to lead and act.
They are and they are. Just not in the way you want them to it seems.
If you feel like more should be done then get in touch and "join" them to discuss what can be done. It's not a closed group of people.
How anyone can possibly say that CARD has not done enough OR not raised the profile of our predicament to a global level OR not had an impact on disrupting and affecting the regime is beyond me. Other than hiring an assassin to take out KM and RD I'm not sure how people think we can "get them out" more effectively.
Uniquos.
Not saying they haven't done good, they have. But then every now and then you see people dressing up and Arabs and Pinocchio and smiling for photos, it's embarrassing.
Card have done great, yesterday felt weird without hard hitting action as in previous two home games, I expect next week to be different, no problem with getting game abandoned now we are down, but don't think Brighton will take too kindly to it.
Trouble is everyone seems reliant on CARD for their protests. By the nature of its membership CARD will only ever be moderate in its ideas for match days, so the only way for hard hitting in ground protest is for others to follow their anger and act. Clearly there is not enough anger there as only a few do outside the CARD initiatives (and before it is said I have but looked like a lone wolf)
People have donated £20k+ to CARD. It's not unreasonable to expect them to lead and act.
They are and they are. Just not in the way you want them to it seems.
If you feel like more should be done then get in touch and "join" them to discuss what can be done. It's not a closed group of people.
How anyone can possibly say that CARD has not done enough OR not raised the profile of our predicament to a global level OR not had an impact on disrupting and affecting the regime is beyond me. Other than hiring an assassin to take out KM and RD I'm not sure how people think we can "get them out" more effectively.
Uniquos.
Not saying they haven't done good, they have. But then every now and then you see people dressing up and Arabs and Pinocchio and smiling for photos, it's embarrassing.
Embarrassing to the regime for sure.
That why they got so upset about the Data Techniques people dressing up as pinocchios. They told them not to but up posters and banned them from the sponsors event.
The original protest with the pinnochios got a lot of publicity too.
It was the Upbeats day yesterday. I thought it was respectful to them and their families that their day was not overshadowed by protests.
If that was the plan then fantastic PR. If it was NOT the plan it was still fantastic PR.
We also lost which means you can't blame the protesting supporters for unsettling the team.
This was exactly my thoughts, and if this is true I give credit to CARD for understanding that sometimes it's best to simply step aside. I would imagine one of the reasons that there was no noon protest was because many CARD members and volunteers were on the Upbeats walk.
There will be two more home games to make add on to the fantastic work the protests have done over the past few months, but this is the one game of the year dedicated to the Upbeats. The protests can continue for another two games or two years, but it seems that so many involved are dedicated not to let some of the incredibly important work in the community atrophy, despite the regime. Another huge reason to be proud to be Charlton, and something it seems no owner can take away.
@Stig No need to apologize, I genuinely appreciate you pointing that out to me or I may still be trying to make a point borne in ignorance. Given the accusations of racism that have been thrown around, I completely understand your reaction, and if something like this ever comes up again I'll be sure to ask questions before jumping to conclusions.
Trouble is everyone seems reliant on CARD for their protests. By the nature of its membership CARD will only ever be moderate in its ideas for match days, so the only way for hard hitting in ground protest is for others to follow their anger and act. Clearly there is not enough anger there as only a few do outside the CARD initiatives (and before it is said I have but looked like a lone wolf)
People have donated £20k+ to CARD. It's not unreasonable to expect them to lead and act.
They are and they are. Just not in the way you want them to it seems.
If you feel like more should be done then get in touch and "join" them to discuss what can be done. It's not a closed group of people.
How anyone can possibly say that CARD has not done enough OR not raised the profile of our predicament to a global level OR not had an impact on disrupting and affecting the regime is beyond me. Other than hiring an assassin to take out KM and RD I'm not sure how people think we can "get them out" more effectively.
Uniquos.
Not saying they haven't done good, they have. But then every now and then you see people dressing up and Arabs and Pinocchio and smiling for photos, it's embarrassing.
Embarrassing to the regime for sure.
That why they got so upset about the Data Techniques people dressing up as pinocchios. They told them not to but up posters and banned them from the sponsors event.
The original protest with the pinnochios got a lot of publicity too.
Have the club met with Data Techniques as promised?
Trouble is everyone seems reliant on CARD for their protests. By the nature of its membership CARD will only ever be moderate in its ideas for match days, so the only way for hard hitting in ground protest is for others to follow their anger and act. Clearly there is not enough anger there as only a few do outside the CARD initiatives (and before it is said I have but looked like a lone wolf)
People have donated £20k+ to CARD. It's not unreasonable to expect them to lead and act.
They are and they are. Just not in the way you want them to it seems.
If you feel like more should be done then get in touch and "join" them to discuss what can be done. It's not a closed group of people.
How anyone can possibly say that CARD has not done enough OR not raised the profile of our predicament to a global level OR not had an impact on disrupting and affecting the regime is beyond me. Other than hiring an assassin to take out KM and RD I'm not sure how people think we can "get them out" more effectively.
Uniquos.
Not saying they haven't done good, they have. But then every now and then you see people dressing up and Arabs and Pinocchio and smiling for photos, it's embarrassing.
Embarrassing to the regime for sure.
That why they got so upset about the Data Techniques people dressing up as pinocchios. They told them not to but up posters and banned them from the sponsors event.
The original protest with the pinnochios got a lot of publicity too.
Have the club met with Data Techniques as promised?
Trouble is everyone seems reliant on CARD for their protests. By the nature of its membership CARD will only ever be moderate in its ideas for match days, so the only way for hard hitting in ground protest is for others to follow their anger and act. Clearly there is not enough anger there as only a few do outside the CARD initiatives (and before it is said I have but looked like a lone wolf)
I feel plenty of anger BUT not prepared to break the law. CARD have been innovative and well planned.
Trouble is everyone seems reliant on CARD for their protests. By the nature of its membership CARD will only ever be moderate in its ideas for match days, so the only way for hard hitting in ground protest is for others to follow their anger and act. Clearly there is not enough anger there as only a few do outside the CARD initiatives (and before it is said I have but looked like a lone wolf)
I feel plenty of anger BUT not prepared to break the law. CARD have been innovative and well planned.
I am Not digging CARD. Far from it. They have been fantastic. What I am saying is individuals need to add to it inside the stadium, instead of just moaning re the owner and what CARD does or doesn't do.
In terms of strategy the CARD folks are doing fine, they can have quiet days like v Derby safe in the knowledge that there are bigger things afoot of which Katrien is blissfully unaware....
"Engage people with what they expect; it is what they are able to discern and confirms their projections. It settles them into predictable patterns of response, occupying their minds while you wait for the extraordinary moment — that which they cannot anticipate.”
This is a good, well balanced debate but I would like to add a few points:
1. Everything that CARD does is carefully considered and debated. There are a variety of views within the team (for example, some that are more militant and others more cautious) but when we arrive at a decision it is backed by everyone. We don't expect every fan to like everything - that would be unrealistic - but likely popular opinion is one of the factors we consider.
2. A desire not to spoil the Upbeats day was a key factor yesterday and a number of CARD organisers/volunteers were on the walk anyway, which would have impacted our ability to do something more eye catching.
3. In addition to that, there is a real risk of "protest fatigue" with the same things being done every week. There is a law of diminishing returns in respect of the impact made to the effort and finances expended. We have to mix it up a bit.
4. The arab/camel things was a small, low-cost way of drawing wider attention to Meire's ill-advised decision to take a holiday at such a critical stage of the season. It wasn't intended for "everyone" to see (although very many did) but it was something relatively light-hearted, low-cost, low manpower which made an impact on social media and thus helped, in a small way, to give the regime another whack.
So apart from a few people having a bit of a jolly in fancy dress did anything actually happen yesterday? There I was thinking we were all taking the fight against the regime seriously.
He's bound to sell now that some camels were spotted in Floyd Road
The best way to ensure some fans can't bitch is to do fuck all.
And for most of us, that isn't an option.
Every action that charlton fans take that is within the law hurts the owner and CEO.....The time is running down on this season but before it is over other things will make headlines and charlton fans will be behind it. All action the fans take will chip away abit more of the corner stone ,which in turn will bring Roland and his CEO down.....Times will change and Charlton will belong to the fans oncemore.
The Dubai outfits were embarrassing, the situation we are in isn't funny. CARD have been brilliant but yesterday was a weak protest.
Agreed mate. That thing you did, though... feckin hell! I can't imagine the hours that went into that. Really put yourself on the line there... I had my doubts, but it certainly came off. I won't forget that in a hurry. I hear Meire is beside herself. I think this could be the straw that broke the camels back.
Remind everyone... it just doesn't seem right that you haven't been given credit.
The protests need to be varied, legal, eye-catching and coordinated. So far CARD has done a fantastic job, and I applaud the inventiveness and range of the action. Respecting the upbeats day was exactly right, and the CARD posters in local businesses is something that can run for the rest of the season. The variety and unpredictability of the actions will keep the club guessing, and even when nothing happens they will still need to devote resources to safeguard against possible action. It must be hugely draining for the club, but getting them out will be a long game not an overnight success. I think CARD's actions so far have been perfectly pitched, and I salute them.
I'm guessing once we are officially relegated, the next step is getting a game abandoned at the valley be it against Brighton or Burnley
I accept that as Charlton Fans, we/you care about CAFC more than you care about Brighton or Burnley. This is normal as Football is tribal.
The implications for violence if say hundreds of CAFC fans run on to the field Before or during a match against Pumped up players from Burnley Or Brighton who are trying to be promoted to the promised land and earn money which will set them up for life, as well as the reaction by at least 3000 fans from those clubs who will be so fired up plus others that would have bought tickets in the home end.
If one of our last two home matches were against mid table teams with nothing to play for other than thinking of their holidays. ( think Dubai Kat ) Then as one of the 2% who has not missed a protest, before or after a game when its been announced; you guys, who want to turn 5 minutes delays into a permanent stoppage may have been right.
Just to let you know i discussed this question with half a dozen Derby fans yesterday on the way to the valley who said if Cafc fans tried to get the game abandoned the chance of violence would be high.
Don't wear the same blinkers as the Horses i bet on. I know some are struck in your CAFC bubble since the Douche bag took over, but think it through before you ask other to join the, getting a game called off crusade.
Any adult Replies welcome.
I'm Charlton till i die.
PS I'm Feel proud of CARD and all the Helpers and protesters who have shown that you can get the message across to the World with humour and a concise message.
it would achieve absolutely nothing to get a match abandoned. It would give the management ammunition against the protests, it would loose us public sympathy and would not help persuade RD to sell. Relegation, poor season ticket sales, continued imaginative protest that engenders positive media interest and reduced income from other areas are the things that will help rid us of RD.
The Dubai outfits were embarrassing, the situation we are in isn't funny. CARD have been brilliant but yesterday was a weak protest.
Agreed mate. That thing you did, though... feckin hell! I can't imagine the hours that went into that. Really put yourself on the line there... I had my doubts, but it certainly came off. I won't forget that in a hurry. I hear Meire is beside herself. I think this could be the straw that broke the camels back.
Remind everyone... it just doesn't seem right that you haven't been given credit.
Steady on. My opinion was that the dubai costumes trivialised the protests. I'm sure your opinion might be different, fair enough. But to take the piss for a cheap laugh seems poor.
2. A desire not to spoil the Upbeats day was a key factor yesterday and a number of CARD organisers/volunteers were on the walk anyway, which would have impacted our ability to do something more eye catching.
To me, this should end the conversation about the Derby game. Many CARD members were doing something else, something I imagine they consider to be very important (and still connected to the club), so if nothing else logistically things would be very difficult. This is a group of volunteers limited in numbers and the amount of time they can dedicate.
On top of that, I would say that the Upbeats walk is more important than one day of protests. There's always next week...
Comments
If you feel like more should be done then get in touch and "join" them to discuss what can be done. It's not a closed group of people.
How anyone can possibly say that CARD has not done enough OR not raised the profile of our predicament to a global level OR not had an impact on disrupting and affecting the regime is beyond me. Other than hiring an assassin to take out KM and RD I'm not sure how people think we can "get them out" more effectively.
Uniquos.
If that was the plan then fantastic PR. If it was NOT the plan it was still fantastic PR.
We also lost which means you can't blame the protesting supporters for unsettling the team.
That why they got so upset about the Data Techniques people dressing up as pinocchios. They told them not to but up posters and banned them from the sponsors event.
The original protest with the pinnochios got a lot of publicity too.
There will be two more home games to make add on to the fantastic work the protests have done over the past few months, but this is the one game of the year dedicated to the Upbeats. The protests can continue for another two games or two years, but it seems that so many involved are dedicated not to let some of the incredibly important work in the community atrophy, despite the regime. Another huge reason to be proud to be Charlton, and something it seems no owner can take away.
"Engage people with what they expect; it is what they are able to discern and confirms their projections. It settles them into predictable patterns of response, occupying their minds while you wait for the extraordinary moment — that which they cannot anticipate.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War.
1. Everything that CARD does is carefully considered and debated. There are a variety of views within the team (for example, some that are more militant and others more cautious) but when we arrive at a decision it is backed by everyone. We don't expect every fan to like everything - that would be unrealistic - but likely popular opinion is one of the factors we consider.
2. A desire not to spoil the Upbeats day was a key factor yesterday and a number of CARD organisers/volunteers were on the walk anyway, which would have impacted our ability to do something more eye catching.
3. In addition to that, there is a real risk of "protest fatigue" with the same things being done every week. There is a law of diminishing returns in respect of the impact made to the effort and finances expended. We have to mix it up a bit.
4. The arab/camel things was a small, low-cost way of drawing wider attention to Meire's ill-advised decision to take a holiday at such a critical stage of the season. It wasn't intended for "everyone" to see (although very many did) but it was something relatively light-hearted, low-cost, low manpower which made an impact on social media and thus helped, in a small way, to give the regime another whack.
And for most of us, that isn't an option.
All action the fans take will chip away abit more of the corner stone ,which in turn will bring Roland and his CEO down.....Times will change and Charlton will belong to the fans oncemore.
Remind everyone... it just doesn't seem right that you haven't been given credit.
The protests need to be varied, legal, eye-catching and coordinated. So far CARD has done a fantastic job, and I applaud the inventiveness and range of the action.
Respecting the upbeats day was exactly right, and the CARD posters in local businesses is something that can run for the rest of the season.
The variety and unpredictability of the actions will keep the club guessing, and even when nothing happens they will still need to devote resources to safeguard against possible action.
It must be hugely draining for the club, but getting them out will be a long game not an overnight success. I think CARD's actions so far have been perfectly pitched, and I salute them.
The implications for violence if say hundreds of CAFC fans run on to the field Before or during a match against Pumped up players from Burnley Or Brighton who are trying to be promoted to the promised land and earn money which will set them up for life, as well as the reaction by at least 3000 fans from those clubs who will be so fired up plus others that would have bought tickets in the home end.
If one of our last two home matches were against mid table teams with nothing to play for other than thinking of their holidays.
( think Dubai Kat )
Then as one of the 2% who has not missed a protest, before or after a game when its been announced; you guys, who want to turn 5 minutes delays into a permanent stoppage may have been right.
Just to let you know i discussed this question with half a dozen Derby fans yesterday on the way to the valley who said if Cafc fans tried to get the game abandoned the chance of violence would be high.
Don't wear the same blinkers as the Horses i bet on.
I know some are struck in your CAFC bubble since the Douche bag took over,
but think it through before you ask other to join the, getting a game called off crusade.
Any adult Replies welcome.
I'm Charlton till i die.
PS I'm Feel proud of CARD and all the Helpers and protesters who have shown that you can get the message across to the World with humour and a concise message.
Relegation, poor season ticket sales, continued imaginative protest that engenders positive media interest and reduced income from other areas are the things that will help rid us of RD.
I have never seen the Thermos and Blanket brigade get that angry before.
On top of that, I would say that the Upbeats walk is more important than one day of protests. There's always next week...